NFL Fines Detroit Lions $200K For Not Interviewing Minority Head Coaching Candidates

[MylesKnight]

Is this right? If there's a guy out there that's available and he's the guy you're absolutely sure you want coaching your franchise, why waste everyone else's time? I understand the issue of race in all of this but this particular "transaction" shouldn't have fallen under that umbrella, so to speak, in my opinion.

Here's the Story

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Detroit tried to interview numerous minority candidates. But none would accept the offer for an interview because they knew Mariucci would be hired as the coach. How is that Detroit's fault?

[mrsimperless]

That is completely ridiculous.

Is the fine for specifically not interviewing an african-american coach, or is it just minorities in general? Would they have been ok if they had interviewed some hispanic, women or homosexual candidates?

I am of the opinion that all of this will straighten itself out over the coming years. Since the majority of the players now are black, as these men retire and decide to go into coaching we will see more and more of them becoming position, assistant, and then eventually head coaches.

But then perhaps I am just naive.

[Kodos]

This seems dumb to me. If you know who you want, why do you have to fake interest in somebody else?

[sabotai]

SO how much do you think Dallas will get fined for doing the exact same thing?

Well, Dallas didn't even try to interview minority coaches with Detroit did...but anyway.

[thesloppy]

BTW, the Detroit Lions weren't fined a thing....it was Matt Millen who was fined.

[MylesKnight]

I just basically copied the Story Headline..

[CAsterling]

Ok, if they can do minority hiring on Coaches, then i want the same thing for the players.

As I remember the figures over 75% of the NFL players are black, this means that they are over-represented in relation to their percentage of the population and hence I want to see this addressed so we have a more representative group of players.

Or

Leave the frigging sport alone and let the people who run the sport, run the damn sport and hire anybody they want

[Franklinnoble]

Originally posted by sabotai
SO how much do you think Dallas will get fined for doing the exact same thing?

Well, Dallas didn't even try to interview minority coaches with Detroit did...but anyway.

Actually, the Dallas and Detroit hirings shouldn't upset anybody. Both teams hired coaches with unimpeachable credentials.

However, I think a bigger deal should have been made when Minnesota, Jacksonville, Oakland, and San Francisco hired unproven white guys.

[ISiddiqui]

This is utterly ridiculous, and I think everyone touched on why. Mooch was a proven commodity and everyone knew he'd be going there.

[Maple Leafs]

Originally posted by Franklinnoble
However, I think a bigger deal should have been made when Minnesota, Jacksonville, Oakland, and San Francisco hired unproven white guys.

I think they should go after the team that did the most to damage minority coaches: the Bengals.

Seriously, who will be held accountable when Marvin Lewis hangs himself after week five?

[SteelerFan448]

Originally posted by Franklinnoble
However, I think a bigger deal should have been made when Minnesota, Jacksonville, Oakland, and San Francisco hired unproven white guys.

Both Minnesota and Oakland promoted from within, so I really don't have a problem with that. Del Rio in Jacksonville seems like a good hiring. He did a good job in Carolina and is now getting a shot. How Dennis Erickson was the best coach for SF, I will never know, I still can't believe that one.

BTW, Mike Mularky turned down the Bengals job, Marvin Lewis was next in line.

[MylesKnight]

Originally posted by SteelerFan448

BTW, Mike Mularky turned down the Bengals job, Marvin Lewis was next in line.

Well at least we know the Bengals tried to screw this one up as well. I think Lewis will be the man to finally get this ship righted.

[rexallllsc]

What about equal-right signings? Should NBA/NFL rosters attempt to even the playing field for whites? How ridiculous. The more and more black assistant coaches, the more head coaching candidates, etc. You cannot make this move along any faster that it is.

[JonInMiddleGA]

The NFL policy is utterly and completely disgusting bullshit.

[CAsterling]

Originally posted by JonInMiddleGA
The NFL policy is utterly and completely disgusting bullshit.

Nice to see a well reasoned, factual and non emotional argument, I don't think anybody can refute the facts you have raised

[sabotai]

"Actually, the Dallas and Detroit hirings shouldn't upset anybody. Both teams hired coaches with unimpeachable credentials."

I agree. Neither team should be fined. But since one team was, the other should since it did the same, if not worse, thing (not even attempting to go after a minority coach)

[j51]

Originally posted by sabotai
SO how much do you think Dallas will get fined for doing the exact same thing?

Well, Dallas didn't even try to interview minority coaches with Detroit did...but anyway.

Actually Jones did talk with Denny Green, it was a sham of an interview and everyone knew it.. but hey, he's a black guy and thats all that mattered.

[JPhillips]

This is a perfect example of good intentions leading to bad results. The NFL owners needed to be pushd into giving blacks more opportunity, but a strict interview policy really won't accomplish anything. I think programs like the one where small college black coaches are brought to a NFL training camp are much more effective. I don't think its arguable that the NFL has not provided a reasonable level of opportunity for black coaches over the past decade, but this will likely just end up pissing people off without really solving the problem.

Of course the other side of me says that the NFL owners agreed to this, so if their employees can't follow the rules, screw em.

[sabotai]

"Actually Jones did talk with Denny Green, it was a sham of an interview and everyone knew it.."

If the NFL only knew all he asked Green was for some dog grooming tips...

[Passacaglia]

I agree with the sentiments here -- that team business is team business. However, I wonder if Detroit is taking flak for this, because they passed up Marvin Lewis a couple years ago, to hire Marty Mornhinweg. But come on, haven't they suffered enough for that choice?

[Logan]

If they had called in a few African-American candidates and sat them down for an "interview," and these people knew going in that the only reason they are there is because some new rule says they have to be, doesn't that do even more harm than not being considered at all???

[Blackadar]

I wonder if Millen can just refuse to pay. Even though it's a private enterprise, the NFL is not covered by the same antitrust exemption that MLB is. Is seems to me this is a pretty clear overstepping of the NFL as the Lions, as a private enterprise, can choose to hire anyone they want. Furthermore, Millen is not employed by the NFL. I know that he signs an agreement with the NFL, but this is out-of-bounds in both precedent and size.

If I were Millen and I had the owner's backing, I'd tell the NFL to stick it up their poop chutes and come and sue me. While the NFL can bar a player from taking the field, it'd be much harder to prevent the President of a team from working. What are they going to do, kick the Lions out of the league?

[MrBug708]

What are they going to do, kick the Lions out of the league?

LOL

[SteelerFan448]

Originally posted by Logan
If they had called in a few African-American candidates and sat them down for an "interview," and these people knew going in that the only reason they are there is because some new rule says they have to be, doesn't that do even more harm than not being considered at all???

I would think so, which is probably why they turned interviews down.

[The Afoci]

Originally posted by Blackadar
What are they going to do, kick the Lions out of the league?

If I was the Lions, I wouldn't chance it. The Commish Paul looks like a guy who lives by the seat of his pants, SNAP, no more Lions and bumf*ck, Eygpt will somehow be put in the NFL North.

[JPhillips]

I thought the Lions were kicked out of pro football a couple years ago.

[MylesKnight]

Tagliabue does have that look of a no-Bullshit kind of guy. I bet he could kick a lot of ass, for an old man...

Hey, who do you like in this matchup anyway, Tagliabue vs. Vince McMahon? I really think "Tags" would give him a serious run for his money.

[larrymcg421]

I doubt white players are underrepresented on NFL rosters in relation to their talent. I do think black coaches are severely underrepresented. There's the difference.

Come on. Does anybody really think black head coaches are properly represented on NFL teams? An interview rule isn't the best idea, but if it was in place, and the Lions didn't abide by it, then it's their own fault.

[Chief Rum]

I heard the ACC is still looking for another team and have offered a spot to the Lions.

CR

[JPhillips]

Rum: Who gets last place, Duke or the Lions?

[Blackadar]

Originally posted by larrymcg421
I doubt white players are underrepresented on NFL rosters in relation to their talent. I do think black coaches are severely underrepresented. There's the difference.

I don't.

[Chief Rum]

Duke. They have basketball to fall back on. And besides, they have gotten used to saying "Duke: The Vandy of the ACC". I wouldn't want to deprive them of that.

CR

[mckerney]

Bullll-shit

The Lions fired their coach to hire one specific guy, this wasn't as if they were doing an open search for coaching candidates and only brought in white guys who knew the double super secret handshake of the white man for intereviews.

[The Afoci]

The rule is dumb. The Lions are dumber for breaking it. Everyone knows of the rule. Pick up some black guy off the street, interview him and hire the guy you always wanted.

[John Galt]

The fine was too small.

And analogies to the racial makeup of players are nonsense.

I could be longwinded, but most people don't read my long posts anyway.

[mckerney]

Originally posted by John Galt
The fine was too small.

So you'd rather they gave interviews to minority candidates, even though they had no chance to get they job? Can teams only target coaches, firing their coach only because they intend to hire that specific coach, if that coach is a minority?

Also, would you rather have a team hire a white coach over a black coach because they believed that the one that was white happened to be more qualified, or a team hire a black coach over a white coach who they believed to be more qualified only because that coach is black?

[JPhillips]

Rum: SO would that make the Lions the Miss. St. of the ACC? Personally I think the Lions would lose against Miss St, Vandy or Duke!

[sabotai]

"The fine was too small."

They shouldn't have been fined at all. They TRIED to interview minority coaches. None of them excepted to be interviewed. Tell me what the Lions were supposed to do. Keep looking for a minority coach to interview while another team somewhere could come up and sign Mooch? Please. It's a stupid rule.

[thesloppy]

It should be noted that Matt Millen went out of his way to be honest with the minority candidates that he attempted to interview. He could have easily 'got some black guy off the street and interviewed him', but whenever any candidates pressed him on wheter Mooch was the Lions' man or not, he said yes he was, and that he understood if they did not want to interview. Sherman Lewis was on the Lions' staff at the time, and could very easily have been brought in to do the token interview, but Millen didn't feel that was fair to Lewis.

It seems counterproductive to fine the one guy who wasn't being disingenuous to fine the one guy who was being honest throughout the hiring process. Contrast this with all the other above-mentioned teams, and you wonder what kind of message the league is actually sending. I can't argue the fact that Millen did not interview any minority candidates, but I can question why there didn't even seem to be any interest in at least investigating the other teams that hired white coaches in the off-season.

Finally, is it just me, but doesn't it seem like a conflict of interest to have any comittee that is handing out punishment headed by an NFL owner? Of course, Rooney is no longer the owner of the Steelers, but wouldn't the diversity comittee by better served by someone a little less partisan?

[sterlingice]

Originally posted by John Galt
The fine was too small.

And analogies to the racial makeup of players are nonsense.

I could be longwinded, but most people don't read my long posts anyway.

I swear... I hope that was a joke.

Anyways, when San Fran hired Mooch, what, 5 years ago, this would be a valid complaint. Since then, he's only proven himself to be one of the top five coaches in the league. It would be like having a theoretical physicist position open up with Stephen Hawking out on the market and given token interviews to canidates just to appease afirmative action.

SI

[SFL Cat]

Originally posted by larrymcg421
I doubt white players are underrepresented on NFL rosters in relation to their talent. I do think black coaches are severely underrepresented. There's the difference.

Come on. Does anybody really think black head coaches are properly represented on NFL teams? An interview rule isn't the best idea, but if it was in place, and the Lions didn't abide by it, then it's their own fault.

You live by the quota, you die by the quota.

[mckerney]

Originally posted by sterlingice
I swear... I hope that was a joke.

Anyways, when San Fran hired Mooch, what, 5 years ago, this would be a valid complaint. Since then, he's only proven himself to be one of the top five coaches in the league. It would be like having a theoretical physicist position open up with Stephen Hawking out on the market and given token interviews to canidates just to appease afirmative action.

SI

A better analogy would be opening up a theoretical physicist postion with the intention of hiring Stephen Hawking, then giving others the impression they had a chance by giving them token interviews..

The Lions had no intention of searching for a head coach, plain and simple they'd wanted Mariucci and had for some time. I believe they'd tried to hire him when they ended up hiring Morningwig, but he didn't want to leave the 49ers.

[mckerney]

Originally posted by larrymcg421
I doubt white players are underrepresented on NFL rosters in relation to their talent. I do think black coaches are severely underrepresented. There's the difference.

Come on. Does anybody really think black head coaches are properly represented on NFL teams? An interview rule isn't the best idea, but if it was in place, and the Lions didn't abide by it, then it's their own fault.

That seems like an awfully racist statement. It would be if I were to say that I though white people were better suited to coach football, so then what's the difference in saying that someone who's black is better suited to play fooball?

[ISiddiqui]

I believe they'd tried to hire him when they ended up hiring Morningwig, but he didn't want to leave the 49ers.

Yep... they wanted Mooch sooo badly, that when he refused, they took his offensive coordinator!

[QuikSand]

Aren't there separate arguments happening here?

I know, I know - you all hate the policy. That much is clear.

But isn't there arguably a separate issue in this instance -- isn't the issue at hand whether the current policy, that teams are bound to follow, was violated? And if so, was the punishment appropriate?


Try to make room in your mind for this possibility. One might argue at the same time:

-it's a bad policy
-the Lions violated the policy and deserve punishment for that

I don't know enough about the case to know if the second part of this is true... but it's at least possible, isn't it? Or do you just hate the policy so much that you can't even allow the possibility that these two ideas can sit side by side?

[SFL Cat]

Originally posted by mckerney
That seems like an awfully racist statement. It would be if I were to say that I though white people were better suited to coach football, so then what's the difference in saying that someone who's black is better suited to play fooball?

Didn't Jimmy the Greek get canned from CBS many years ago for making the same observations about blacks -- how they were "bred to play football better?"

Obviously a pretty stupid statement. Personally, I want the best players playing regardless of their skin color, and I want the best coaches coaching regardless of their skin color. If that player is black...no problem....If that coach is white...so be it.

This is just another example of PC madness taken to its petty extremes.

[sterlingice]

Originally posted by QuikSand
Aren't there separate arguments happening here?

I know, I know - you all hate the policy. That much is clear.

But isn't there arguably a separate issue in this instance -- isn't the issue at hand whether the current policy, that teams are bound to follow, was violated? And if so, was the punishment appropriate?


Try to make room in your mind for this possibility. One might argue at the same time:

-it's a bad policy
-the Lions violated the policy and deserve punishment for that

I don't know enough about the case to know if the second part of this is true... but it's at least possible, isn't it? Or do you just hate the policy so much that you can't even allow the possibility that these two ideas can sit side by side?

I'm in the opposite camp of the one you are implying. I think the policy is a good idea, but it should not be interpreted in a black and white, right and wrong context as it was in this case. There is some room for grey here and this is one of those cases.

The policy is just but it was applied inappropriately. The intention of the Lions was not to keep the old boys club around and only hire a bad white coach because he's white. They saw one of the best coaches on the market and made a beeline for him. The intent was clearly not racist so why fine them for being as such.

SI

[ISiddiqui]

I'm the same as sterlingice. I think its a good policy in general, but in this specific case, I think it stinks to high heaven. I think the NFL should have looked at the circumstances in this case to realize the team wasn't screwing over minorities. In fact they didn't interview minority coaches in order NOT to screw them over (giving interviews just to satisfy a requirement is seriously screwing with someone).

[Dutch]

I think this is another reason why the NAACP has lost the vision of it's original intentions. Before it was about destroying racism, now it's about enhacing racism to keep all of their lawyers employed.