FOF8 Great Debate I: Kickers are Fungible

QuikSand · 03-16-2021, 08:56 AM

This will be a series of threads designed to provoke debate about a matter in the FOF 8 game, around which there appears to be some uncertainty. We will pose the topic as a statement, and invite your responses to start with either PRO or CON, as you indicate whether you agree, or disagree, with the stated assertion.

Today's statement for debate:

Kickers are fungible. The correlation between apparent kicking ratings and eventual stats is thin, at best. The supply of adequate kickers is reliably vast and replenishes in each draft class. Therefore, generally speaking, don't worry about the kicker position... kickers are fungible.

Respond in this thread, please, starting with a clear statement in all caps of your position, PRO or CON.

albionmoonlight · 03-16-2021, 09:04 AM

PRO

In this, I think that FOF reflects real life. Once you are at the NFL level, every kicker is one of the best kickers in human history. The difference between the best kicker in the league at a given time and an average kicker is minimal.

And, in FOF, this is easy to prove, right? The kicker ratings are visible bars. And the kicker stats are easily compiled. And there just is very little connection between the two.

Mota · 03-16-2021, 10:12 AM

Is it because of the limited sample size? If you get 30-40 attempts per season, the margin for error is probably greater than the difference between a great and average kicker.

albionmoonlight · 03-16-2021, 10:18 AM

An interesting problem--in FOF and in real life--would be to determine the value of a great kicker if there were only 5 or so that were above average and the rest were bad.

Ben E Lou · 03-16-2021, 10:26 AM

CON

Game plan (distance kicking) makes a big difference.

JonInMiddleGA · 03-16-2021, 10:32 AM

PRO

(assuming that what I see of them in single-player is the same as what you guys see in m-p)

Vince, Pt. II · 03-16-2021, 10:55 AM

PRO

As far less of a grognard than most here, I don't have a lot of hard data here, but anecdotally this is how I always treated the position mostly because I wanted to allocate my resources to the every-down players, and every advantage there matters. The trade-off from "all-pro" kicker to "random easily acquired kicker" was a price I was willing to pay to take a flier on a potential breakout player.

I do have to admit that Ben's position is one I hadn't considered much though, and I could see that angle playing into a strategy somewhat.

molson · 03-16-2021, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

PRO

In this, I think that FOF reflects real life. Once you are at the NFL level, every kicker is one of the best kickers in human history. The difference between the best kicker in the league at a given time and an average kicker is minimal.

And, in FOF, this is easy to prove, right? The kicker ratings are visible bars. And the kicker stats are easily compiled. And there just is very little connection between the two.

Ya, I think I've ranted about this here before, but NFL kicker transactions are mostly based on fan appeasement. A guy misses a few kicks, then all of the sudden he's garbage, and all of the scouting, tryouts, prior performance doesn't matter one bit. We put so much meaning into one outcome in a way we've learned not to do in almost every other context in sports. FOFC doesn't really replicate the fan appeasement part (you can kind of make that up in your head), but kickers at the highest level being interchangeable is there and accurate.

QuikSand · 03-19-2021, 05:17 PM

PRO

I have not done any studies... I am just routinely frustrated that it feels like nearly every K ends up hitting 84% of his field goals, independent of whether he's rated 80 or 40. I have not investigated what (potentially cavernous) opportunities I'm missing with my gameplanning based on kicker skill, but on behalf of those of us who don't possess any special insight - I'm over it.

Pyser · 03-22-2021, 10:17 AM

pro

just not a difference maker for the money it seems

molson · 03-22-2021, 10:48 AM

Kickers obviously can win and lose games on their own - if there were any substantial difference between them they wouldn't all make less than $5 million a year.

tzach · 05-26-2021, 04:24 AM

PRO and CON -- depends on offensive strategy. for some strategies kickers are fungible, for others they are crucial for winning games

Hammer · 05-28-2021, 10:46 AM

On the fence for me. Yes there is a difference, but from a money ball perspective debatable if it is worth it. Depends if you have cap to spare.

03-16-2021, 10:26 AM	#5
Ben E Lou Morgado's Favorite Forum Fascist Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Greensboro, NC	CON Game plan (distance kicking) makes a big difference. __________________ The media don't understand the kinds of problems and pressures 54 million come wit'!

03-16-2021, 10:32 AM	#6
JonInMiddleGA Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA	PRO (assuming that what I see of them in single-player is the same as what you guys see in m-p) __________________ "I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis Last edited by JonInMiddleGA : 03-16-2021 at 10:33 AM.

03-16-2021, 09:04 AM	#2
albionmoonlight Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: North Carolina	PRO In this, I think that FOF reflects real life. Once you are at the NFL level, every kicker is one of the best kickers in human history. The difference between the best kicker in the league at a given time and an average kicker is minimal. And, in FOF, this is easy to prove, right? The kicker ratings are visible bars. And the kicker stats are easily compiled. And there just is very little connection between the two.

03-16-2021, 10:12 AM	#3
Mota College Benchwarmer Join Date: Jan 2001	Is it because of the limited sample size? If you get 30-40 attempts per season, the margin for error is probably greater than the difference between a great and average kicker.

03-16-2021, 10:18 AM	#4
albionmoonlight Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: North Carolina	An interesting problem--in FOF and in real life--would be to determine the value of a great kicker if there were only 5 or so that were above average and the rest were bad.

03-16-2021, 10:55 AM	#7
Vince, Pt. II Pro Starter Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Somewhere More Familiar	PRO As far less of a grognard than most here, I don't have a lot of hard data here, but anecdotally this is how I always treated the position mostly because I wanted to allocate my resources to the every-down players, and every advantage there matters. The trade-off from "all-pro" kicker to "random easily acquired kicker" was a price I was willing to pay to take a flier on a potential breakout player. I do have to admit that Ben's position is one I hadn't considered much though, and I could see that angle playing into a strategy somewhat.

03-19-2021, 05:17 PM	#9
QuikSand lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Annapolis, Md	PRO I have not done any studies... I am just routinely frustrated that it feels like nearly every K ends up hitting 84% of his field goals, independent of whether he's rated 80 or 40. I have not investigated what (potentially cavernous) opportunities I'm missing with my gameplanning based on kicker skill, but on behalf of those of us who don't possess any special insight - I'm over it.

03-22-2021, 10:17 AM	#10
Pyser Pro Rookie Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Los Angeles	pro just not a difference maker for the money it seems

03-22-2021, 10:48 AM	#11
molson General Manager Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: The Mountains	Kickers obviously can win and lose games on their own - if there were any substantial difference between them they wouldn't all make less than $5 million a year.

05-26-2021, 04:24 AM	#12
tzach High School JV Join Date: Mar 2015	PRO and CON -- depends on offensive strategy. for some strategies kickers are fungible, for others they are crucial for winning games

05-28-2021, 10:46 AM	#13
Hammer College Prospect Join Date: Sep 2005	On the fence for me. Yes there is a difference, but from a money ball perspective debatable if it is worth it. Depends if you have cap to spare.

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