The best quarterback to ever play in the NFL is:

[Honolulu Blue]

I'm not so sure about this one. I doubt the Papa John's spokesman will get the majority of the votes, but we'll see.

[Grover]

Brady or Montana. Manning doesn't touch the two of them as far as I'm concerned. Sure, all the stats are great, but 8 first round playoff exits is not.

[Butter]

Definitely not Manning, but I'm torn on a number of potentials.

[albionmoonlight]

I never know what to do with Otto Graham in these polls. The guy won, like, eleventy billion championships, but that was also before I think all of the teams even knew that the forward pass was legal.

With that caveat, I would have to pick Unitas or Montana.

[Dutch]

Dan Marino

[lungs]

Quincy Carter

[revrew]

Peyton's playoff losses, his inability to inspire his teammates (condemn, belittle, scare the bejesus out of, sure, but not inspire), nope. Like I commented on Barry Sanders in the RB thread, talent doesn't automatically lead to winning. Smartest QB to ever play? No question. Best? ... no.

John Elway may have been the most talented QB to ever play, or perhaps Marino. Sadly, these guys didn't have the talent/coaching that Brady/Montana had around them, so I think they'll always come in third to those two.

Best? It's hard at this point not to answer Tom Brady. I mean, I hate the guy. But it's hard to argue with the winning, the ability to win when he's captaining a balanced offense or when he's carrying it with 50 TDs.

But I'm a child of the 80s, and it's hard not to say Joe Montana. He still gets my sentimental vote for #1. (And as a Bronco fan, I hated Montana, too. But ... dang, he was something.)

[BillJasper]

Brady would obviously be in the discussion but QB is such a hard position to quantify because of the ever changing rules.

I think it is Brady/Montana then everyone else.

[korme]

This isn't the NBA. The NFL is the ultimate team sport. You can't hold Peytons lack of SB rings as the sole reason for not giving him the #1 spot.

[larrymcg421]

Manning/Marino
Others

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by korme

This isn't the NBA. The NFL is the ultimate team sport. You can't hold Peytons lack of SB rings as the sole reason for not giving him the #1 spot.

Sure I can. He had a lot of great pieces in Indianapolis for a decade and did very little with the opportunity. Same in Denver when it has come to the post season.

Brady has been to six Super Bowls, winning four.

[Vince, Pt. II]

I think there are five guys you can make a legitimate case for:
Graham, Unitas, Montana, Brady and Manning. Born and raised bleeding red and gold, this is not a difficult decision

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Vince, Pt. II

I think there are five guys you can make a legitimate case for:
Graham, Unitas, Montana, Brady and Manning. Born and raised bleeding red and gold, this is not a difficult decision

Matt Leinart?

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by Vince, Pt. II

I think there are five guys you can make a legitimate case for:
Graham, Unitas, Montana, Brady and Manning. Born and raised bleeding red and gold, this is not a difficult decision

I think it comes down to Brady and Montana in the Super Bowl-era. Game was just a lot different when guys like Graham and Unitas (bulk of his career) were playing.

[MizzouRah]

Kurt Warner.. lol

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

Kurt Warner.. lol

I think he'd probably be in the conversation if he had been more consistent.

[ColtCrazy]

With my name, it's obvious who I would vote for...

Montana.

Honestly, I think looking at QBs from even different decades is hard. Imagine Marino in today's pass happy NFL. Would Manning or Brady have been great in the dead ball era? Plus, how do you equate overall team quality into the mix. Bradshaw's stats aren't as good as Stabler's, but Bradshaw is in the HOF. Stabler is not. Bradshaw had Harris and a great defense. Stabler had a good but not as good as Steeler defense and never had a great runner.

Still, Montana had a mix of Manning's huddle presence and Brady's knack of big throws. I do think Manning gets a bad rap for his playoff exits because you can't solely blame Manning for them. Football is so much a team sport...no way you could blame Marino for a sole Super Bowl visit. For me, I look at the Brady/Manning debate on the two years they were out. The Patriots still won 11. The Colts won 2. I'm not saying Brady is a system quarterback, but he's had better teams around him than Manning has more times than not.

If you look at Manning and Brady's playoff stats, they are actually remarkably similar. So why the difference in records? Useage. If you look at the playoff games where either had to pass more than 35 times, neither are brilliant. Manning is 7-10 in those games. Brady is 9-7. Brady is 12-1 in games where he had to pass less than 35 times, which gives the hint that he doesn't have to do it all himself, which is a good thing. Manning has only had 7 games where that's happened. I think Manning was used like Marino where he has the end all. Brady is more like Montana, a great quarterback whose front offices knew could be better with the right help.

[Vince, Pt. II]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Matt Leinart?

Carson Palmer, duh.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by BillJasper

I think he'd probably be in the conversation if he had been more consistent.

No question.. kind of started a bit late too.

[Schmidty]

Montana.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

Kurt Warner.. lol

This might not be a big stretch if the Rams had kept Vermeil to reign in Martz or just let Martz walk. I may be wrong but I always thought Vermeil was nudged into retirement, as fast as he came back with KC, because the Rams office thought they had the new big thing with Martz and were going to lose it if they didnt' get him the HC job. Martz to a QB was like Dusty Baker to a pitching staff, just a killer.

Water under the bridge and can't be changed so, even though a Rams fan, I have to go with Montana.

[NobodyHere]

Brady's a cheater

[dubb93]

Whenever this gets brought up all I can think about is:

Why is Tom Brady the best QB ever?



Why is Peyton Manning not the best QB ever?



In all seriousness, Vanderjagt makes a few more kicks and Peyton may not have the choker label. Vinatieri misses a few more and Brady may get the label.

It's also interesting that Peyton's one super bowl ring had more to do with Super Bob Sanders than with Peyton Manning. I think for all the numbers and talk that QB's get in today's NFL that come playoff time success is MUCH more about defensive coaching and talent than how well a QB plays.

[Dutch]

Uncle Rico...but coach wouldn't play him...sometimes its not the players fault.

[EagleFan]

Joe Montana.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by lungs

Quincy Carter

+1

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by Sweed

This might not be a big stretch if the Rams had kept Vermeil to reign in Martz or just let Martz walk. I may be wrong but I always thought Vermeil was nudged into retirement, as fast as he came back with KC, because the Rams office thought they had the new big thing with Martz and were going to lose it if they didnt' get him the HC job. Martz to a QB was like Dusty Baker to a pitching staff, just a killer.

Water under the bridge and can't be changed so, even though a Rams fan, I have to go with Montana.

I FULLY agree Vermeil was nudged out for fear of losing Martz. Huge mistake...

[ColtCrazy]

Great points, dubb. It's a team game and the entire roster matters (see: Vinatieri vs. Vanderjagt). Not to take anything away from Brady, Montana, or even Starr, but they had incredible teammates and coaches. Imagine Marino or Manning with the career support.

[Izulde]

Going with Marino on this one, though arguments can be made for a ton of different guys.

[Julio Riddols]

Aaron Rodgers gets my vote. He has all the pocket QB skills of a Manning while also possessing the athleticism to be one of the most dangerous runners in the league as well. No QB in history has had the same combination. Virtually no drop off in his playoff performance either. When he retires, he may not hold the longevity records of his peers in the HoF, but he will have had the best career of any QB in league history.

[Grammaticus]

Marino

[BYU 14]

So many great QB's that you could throw in a hat, but when I think of the one guy I would want on the field in the big game it is fairly clear. Joe Montana.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by Julio Riddols

Aaron Rodgers gets my vote. He has all the pocket QB skills of a Manning while also possessing the athleticism to be one of the most dangerous runners in the league as well. No QB in history has had the same combination.

Steve Young? Fran Tarkenton?

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by Izulde

Going with Marino on this one, though arguments can be made for a ton of different guys.

I went with Marino because he put up numbers in an era when you weren't supposed to be able to do that. I think Favre and Rodgers and Manning all deserve some consideration though....and of course, Joe Montana.

[rowech]

Originally Posted by Vince, Pt. II

I think there are five guys you can make a legitimate case for:
Graham, Unitas, Montana, Brady and Manning. Born and raised bleeding red and gold, this is not a difficult decision

Elway, Montana, or Brady for me.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by Dutch

I went with Marino because he put up numbers in an era when you weren't supposed to be able to do that.

Even though I went with Montana I certainly couldn't argue with this. Marino would be my 1b to Joe's 1a and it wouldn't take a lot of talking to convince me I should have them the other way around.

[Julio Riddols]

Originally Posted by Dutch

I went with Marino because he put up numbers in an era when you weren't supposed to be able to do that. I think Favre and Rodgers and Manning all deserve some consideration though....and of course, Joe Montana.

What bothers me about Marino in these GOAT conversations is that he played with probably the best pass blocking line in the league for all or most of his career. A stationary target like that who only gets sacked 270 times in his career (Sack percentage of 3.1%, which is crazy low) is playing with an extreme advantage when it comes to protection. A QB with as much apparent time to throw and talent to throw to as Marino had? Seems like the numbers should be better. All I see when I look at him is a good volume passer who choked in the playoffs consistently. He certainly doesn't seem like he is the GOAT by any stretch. Top 20 probably, but nowhere near greatest of all time.

Rodgers plays in Green Bay where the weather is a big factor, has a career passer rating almost 5 points higher than the next best guy, and has virtually no let down in the playoffs thus far. Unless he suddenly starts choking in the post season or playing a lot more average in the regular season, I think its going to continue to look more and more (to me anyway) like Rodgers is the best of all time.

[revrew]

I haven't studied the Dolphins video, but I've been told part of the reason for Marino's low sack % was his crazy fast delivery. Decision to release in a flash. Wonder how that plays into your argument, Julio Riddols.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by Julio Riddols

What bothers me about Marino in these GOAT conversations is that he played with probably the best pass blocking line in the league for all or most of his career. A stationary target like that who only gets sacked 270 times in his career (Sack percentage of 3.1%, which is crazy low) is playing with an extreme advantage when it comes to protection. A QB with as much apparent time to throw and talent to throw to as Marino had? Seems like the numbers should be better. All I see when I look at him is a good volume passer who choked in the playoffs consistently. He certainly doesn't seem like he is the GOAT by any stretch. Top 20 probably, but nowhere near greatest of all time.

Rodgers plays in Green Bay where the weather is a big factor, has a career passer rating almost 5 points higher than the next best guy, and has virtually no let down in the playoffs thus far. Unless he suddenly starts choking in the post season or playing a lot more average in the regular season, I think its going to continue to look more and more (to me anyway) like Rodgers is the best of all time.

It's certainly all subjective and I certainly wouldn't argue against Rodgers being someone's #1, he is great.

Marino, to me, shouldn't have to apologize for having a great line. Eric Dickerson ran behind a great line but never had a good QB. Marino played behind a great line but never had a good running game that I can recall. Both guys performed against a defense stacked to hold them and pretty much only them down.

Most if not all of Marino's numbers came after the league slightly tightened rules against the defense (1973 IIRC) to open up the passing game. Rodgers come after defenses have had their hands tied compared to the Marino\Monatna era. Not a bad thing, beats the hell out of the 3 yards and a cloud of dust era the league was when I first started watching. It is so hard to cross eras to compare.

Originally Posted by revrew

I haven't studied the Dolphins video, but I've been told part of the reason for Marino's low sack % was his crazy fast delivery. Decision to release in a flash. Wonder how that plays into your argument, Julio Riddols.

Certainly played a part, IMHO.

[SteveMax58]

I think Rodgers may end up at #1 by the end of his career...but right now its Brady for me.

Brady has done more, with less offensive talent (save for the Moss season where they shattered records & almost went 19-0), in an era of parity that makes dynasty building pretty dam hard to do.

And I think Marino would be my #2, followed then by Montana, then perhaps Elway, Manning, Unitas, Staubach, Favre, Bradshaw, and Tebow might duke it out for the rest of the top 10.

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by Julio Riddols

What bothers me about Marino in these GOAT conversations is that he played with probably the best pass blocking line in the league for all or most of his career. A stationary target like that who only gets sacked 270 times in his career (Sack percentage of 3.1%, which is crazy low) is playing with an extreme advantage when it comes to protection. A QB with as much apparent time to throw and talent to throw to as Marino had? Seems like the numbers should be better. All I see when I look at him is a good volume passer who choked in the playoffs consistently. He certainly doesn't seem like he is the GOAT by any stretch. Top 20 probably, but nowhere near greatest of all time.

You should've stopped at stationary target, because that made it clear you're talking about an entirely different QB than Marino. Part of Marino's low sack% was his quick release and part of it was his footwork in the pocket.



And it's silly to bring up the talent he had to throw to (which is odd, because I love Clayton and Duper, but they're not hall of famers), then conveniently ignore the defense or running game talent question when claiming he choked in the playoffs.

[BillJasper]

As a Dolphins fan, I miss Dan Marino.

[path12]

Either Montana or Marino for me as well. But Montana got the rings so he edges it.

[jbergey22]

Loving the respect Marino is getting in this thread. The no rings argument in ranking him as an All-Time great QB is absurd.

[spleen1015]

I remember years ago during one of the NFL seasons, there was talk about who would you rather have Brady or Manning on local sports radio.

My opinion has always been if you put Manning with Belichek they have numerous undefeated seasons.

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

My opinion has always been if you put Manning with Belichek they have numerous undefeated seasons.

I'm not so sure the two could coexist. It could've been a train wreck of epic proportions.

[EagleFan]

Where is the love for Babe Laufenberg?

[SteveMax58]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

Where is the love for Babe Laufenberg?

Tami Maida easily surpassed the Babe

[Vince, Pt. II]

I'm floored we've come this far without it...

...but if Dean Houston hadn't slapped that kid...

[tarcone]

John Elway. So much talent. And confidence. And a couple championships.

Or Matt Sanford. But that's a biased opinion. But he did some great things in Tulsa.