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Old 02-01-2008, 01:45 AM   #1651
path12
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I was surprised that we didn't hit the fish earlier also. I think we were down to two possibilities when we picked The Jackal.

And I never got his hint. I just saw it as another fish question.
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Old 02-01-2008, 01:52 AM   #1652
Chief Rum
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Originally Posted by path12 View Post
I was surprised that we didn't hit the fish earlier also. I think we were down to two possibilities when we picked The Jackal.

And I never got his hint. I just saw it as another fish question.

Well, I didn't say it was a "good" hint (j/k Jackal). Actually, it was tough for him to try to do, since, as he said, he needed to avoid being obvious but still find a way to drop a hint. I think if the Jackal had more experience with us, who might have been better able to drop hints. But as he himself noted a few times, he hasn't played with most of us until now, and played cautiopusly, letting others take the lead (and I can't say it is in theory a bad move to do so until he gets used to us).
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Old 02-01-2008, 01:56 AM   #1653
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Well here's the thing. While I was with the department, my win conditions were with the department. So I wasn't going to be all blatant and help the wolves win. If they found me, sure. It wasn't a big hint, I just imagined that they might be scanning the posts for any mention of the fish, especially an innocuous one.
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Old 02-01-2008, 03:10 AM   #1654
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Once again, I get the much coveted LVP Award.

Thank you!! Thank you!!!
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Old 02-01-2008, 07:23 AM   #1655
claphamsa
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DMTIT! I was all ready to explain why it was path......

vote path!
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Old 02-01-2008, 07:24 AM   #1656
claphamsa
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And its kinda funny, I love the your playing differnety argument, this is still only my 9-10 game on 2 boards.... Ive got thte your different in the last 2 tsw games too. maybe im finally figured it out? (not true, but who knows)
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Old 02-01-2008, 07:42 AM   #1657
Passacaglia
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It figures that The Jackal was The Fish -- I think I spent most of the game saying we should not bother fishing for The Jackal, since he voted for both Farrah and fink, and therefore would probably be more use to us as a villager to try to get lynched than The Fish. And on the day I was voted off, I had to put in the order since my teammates hadn't (thanks guys ), I figured we might as well fish for him then, since it was down to him and Schmidty, and I had just gotten into a little pissing match with him that day, so maybe it would help.
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Old 02-01-2008, 07:42 AM   #1658
Barkeep49
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I'm not surprsied path made it to the end. He's a great bad guy. I think it was a real good game CR, well done.
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Old 02-01-2008, 07:54 AM   #1659
oliegirl
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You know, now that everyone has come out and said "oh, I left this clue" or "oh, I picked up on this hint", I see it all...but NONE of it made sense last night. This was a great game, but as a worker, trying to figure out 2 factions of wolves and also worry about agreeing with the wrong side and ending up looking like a wolf (ala Mau), deciphering posts was like trying to see through mud.

Great game CR...it always amazes me the details y'all work into the games, I can't imagine how much time and effort goes into planning the game, let alone running them and keeping up with everything. Thanks!!!!!
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Old 02-01-2008, 07:55 AM   #1660
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Yeah, I knew that a strong wolf team coming out of the elimination of the other team would likely be too strong for the Department to defeat, so I put this mechanic in as a "just in case". It was only to be triggered if the surviving wolf team had three or more members. Two or less, and the Fish would have still continued to be convertible. Also, this only triggered after a wolf team was eliminated. So congrats on "beating the odds" and enabling this mechanism.

Frankly, I was a little surprised no one hit on Jackal earlier. Each team had six chances before the Crew was eliminated. I realize the two sides didn't know who the other side was fishing, but you go in knowing 8 of the 21 aren't the Fish (because they're wolves). I would have thought with each side having a 6 tries in 13 non-wolves chance, not even counting potential candidates getting voted off and The Jackal himself trying to drop a hint or two, that someone would have hit on the Fish before a wolf team was eliminated.

That's funny -- I didn't really see our 3-0 position as *that* strong, since we all had to be pretty public to get to that point, making it easier for them to pick us off one by one. I think our strategy of having me be "the" public guy worked pretty well, as The Heinz and path were able to help our cause if needed, but look less overt about it compared to me.

I loved playing this game as a wolf, but I could understand the villagers getting sick of it. It was cool to have to try to communicate with the other wolf team, but to have to not be obvious about it. And I think both wolf teams did a great job of not outing the wolves on the other team in their play.
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Old 02-01-2008, 07:57 AM   #1661
claphamsa
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FYI this was a top 2 game for me... and not just cuz i survived! it was awseom way to go all!!!!
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Old 02-01-2008, 08:38 AM   #1662
Dr. Sak
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Originally Posted by Lathum View Post
Thanks chief, that was alot of fun.

I would love to know what BSak's rational was behind his rabid pursuit of me

A lot of it had to do with the fact that I didn't want to be wishy washy, and changing my vote each day. I knew you weren't a wolf, but you were being really defensive and not really giving any hard proof why you werent or couldn't be the fish.

Then the one day we tried to kill you and it said some force stopped us from doing that. I knew the bodyguard was out there but it was also a night where a wolf couldn't be killed at night by another wolf team. So I thought that you could've been converted and the killed couldn't have been processed because now you were "technically" a wolf.

That's really all I got.
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Old 02-01-2008, 08:48 AM   #1663
jeheinz72
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Woo! Way to go path! Good job bringing it home!

I had a blast this game, Pass, Path and SnDvls were great teammates and I thought we did things pretty wisely throughout. It was definitely challenging to try and get the other team out and not out ourselves. I was one of the ones on our squad who just wanted to try and blitz them (though ironically I think I was the one who had the least about of votes for Crew members).

CR, question for you, what happened on Night 3 when I was doing the killing as our Strongest Killer? Did they send their strongest but we were trumped because we had more members alive?

Oh, and Alan, when I typed "alan tndeacon" that was a little back-at-ya for what we all thought was that path reference. Heck I spent the rest of the thread trying my darnedest to not type the word "path" at all, I think I used route, avenue, way, road, etc.

Great game folks! Go Cougars!
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Old 02-01-2008, 10:10 AM   #1664
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You only block one kill, Lathum. There were two wolf teams, each with their own kill orders. You blocked the one on yourself, which meant the other team's kill order went through without being challenged.

Then I have to ask what is the point of a bodyguard if ultimatly there will be a kill anyway?
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Old 02-01-2008, 10:17 AM   #1665
Lathum
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I knew you weren't a wolf, but you were being really defensive and not really giving any hard proof why you werent or couldn't be the fish.



Dude.

I really want to know how you expect me to do that.

Seriously, other then saying " I am not the fish" how am I supposed to show any proof about anything?

I have been playing since the first game ever on FOFC and as far as I can tell, there is no way to prove anything 100%.

someone, anyone?
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Old 02-01-2008, 10:20 AM   #1666
st.cronin
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Then I have to ask what is the point of a bodyguard if ultimatly there will be a kill anyway?

+1, that mechanic seems backwards to me - determine who the killer is, then check the bodyguard block.

Definitely a good game, Chief. Was fun to read along.
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Old 02-01-2008, 10:25 AM   #1667
Dr. Sak
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Originally Posted by Lathum View Post
Dude.

I really want to know how you expect me to do that.

Seriously, other then saying " I am not the fish" how am I supposed to show any proof about anything?

I don't really know exactly how but you kept deflecting blame on me without giving any reason. Plus I was hoping you'd trip up because for one you weren't on my team so if you were either a villager or a wolf on the other team I wanted you eliminated.
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Old 02-01-2008, 10:30 AM   #1668
Lathum
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I don't really know exactly how but you kept deflecting blame on me without giving any reason. Plus I was hoping you'd trip up because for one you weren't on my team so if you were either a villager or a wolf on the other team I wanted you eliminated.

ok, that makes some sense.

At least admit there is nothing I can do to show any proof!!


And I usually deflec attention on someone accusing me and can be pretty annoying about it. MY theory is if you aren't with me your against me.

By day 5 I wanted people to thinlk I was the fish so I would be attacked at night, I knew I could protect myself and thought we would get a kill blocked and maybe out a wolf. To bad the other team got the kill, which I still don't really understand.
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Old 02-01-2008, 10:33 AM   #1669
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Yeah, that was some backfire. I think he felt he needed to make a stand so that he didn't seem to be a wolf in hiding, but chose his target poorly.

Actually, the Crew had a lot of bad luck. Besides bsak's aggressive pursuit of the "best" golfing buddy, Farrah was named by cronin--and cronin never even scanned Farrah (would have had he lived; far as I know, he voted Farrah on gut, and everyone assumed he had scanned her), and fink was away with job duties when he was in a tightly contested vote here (which literally turned on the final votes that day).

We, The Cougars, jumped on this right away and really pounded it...we were going all out to take her out that time and it worked.
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Old 02-01-2008, 10:33 AM   #1670
SnDvls
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Lots of fun, Chief. I'll have more later, but let me say that SnD, Pass and Heinz are great fun to be wolves with. Good job, guys!

same to you and the other wolves I had a great time being a baddie with you all
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Old 02-01-2008, 10:37 AM   #1671
jeheinz72
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Then I have to ask what is the point of a bodyguard if ultimatly there will be a kill anyway?

Well look at it as more of a protection for a certain player than a preventing a kill altogether. I don't recall who we actually killed that night (Arles)? But I'm sure we would've rather killed you.
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Old 02-01-2008, 10:48 AM   #1672
Alan T
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Originally Posted by Passacaglia View Post
It figures that The Jackal was The Fish -- I think I spent most of the game saying we should not bother fishing for The Jackal, since he voted for both Farrah and fink, and therefore would probably be more use to us as a villager to try to get lynched than The Fish. And on the day I was voted off, I had to put in the order since my teammates hadn't (thanks guys ), I figured we might as well fish for him then, since it was down to him and Schmidty, and I had just gotten into a little pissing match with him that day, so maybe it would help.


That was actually my thought on the jackal too, that I didn't bother with him as I was using him as leverage against both Pass and Jeheinz down the road. ahh well.
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Old 02-01-2008, 11:12 AM   #1673
Passacaglia
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Well look at it as more of a protection for a certain player than a preventing a kill altogether. I don't recall who we actually killed that night (Arles)? But I'm sure we would've rather killed you.

Yeah, we killed Arlie that night. I actually thought that went rather well for us, since it got him to stop going after me, and it gave me a chance to run with my "they're all out to get me, and the fact that they killed Arlie is proof" theory.
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Old 02-01-2008, 11:13 AM   #1674
Passacaglia
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That was actually my thought on the jackal too, that I didn't bother with him as I was using him as leverage against both Pass and Jeheinz down the road. ahh well.

That's awesome. It's funny that because he was the fish, he voted with The Heinz hoping that would make us notice him, but instead it made us both avoid him!
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Old 02-01-2008, 11:32 AM   #1675
path12
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Originally Posted by claphamsa View Post
And its kinda funny, I love the your playing differnety argument, this is still only my 9-10 game on 2 boards.... Ive got thte your different in the last 2 tsw games too. maybe im finally figured it out? (not true, but who knows)

Heh. I was just trying to come up with some sort of plausible argument to get you lynched quickly!
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Old 02-01-2008, 11:38 AM   #1676
path12
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Oh, and Alan, when I typed "alan tndeacon" that was a little back-at-ya for what we all thought was that path reference. Heck I spent the rest of the thread trying my darnedest to not type the word "path" at all, I think I used route, avenue, way, road, etc.

That whole thing cracked me up. Both Heinz and Pass saw that right away. I told them that the word 'path' gets used in WW more than you might think........both hoops and Alan use the word quite a bit.
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Old 02-01-2008, 11:47 AM   #1677
st.cronin
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Just to correct what pass said about me as seer: Day 1 I NORMALLY try to scan somebody who received very few votes. The theory is that the 2nd place vote-getter will probably be lynched soon enough anyway, so what's the point. Occasionally the situation does dictate scanning the #2 vote-getter, and this was one of them, partly because Lathum is Lathum, and partly because he was giving me an odd vibe.

It really should have been apparent that I HAD scanned him, though - I pretty much telegrammed that fact with my posts at the beginning of day 2. I always try to leave clues about who I have scanned, and what their allegiance is.

In days 2+, I almost ALWAYS scan the person I vote for, unless there's a specific game situation that calls for somebody to be scanned, or unless I have already scanned a wolf and haven't revealed myself yet - in that case I'll vote the wolf and scan somebody else.
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Old 02-01-2008, 11:50 AM   #1678
Alan T
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That whole thing cracked me up. Both Heinz and Pass saw that right away. I told them that the word 'path' gets used in WW more than you might think........both hoops and Alan use the word quite a bit.

I honestly didn't think it was in response to anything I did. I sat there looking at that for like 3 minutes trying to figure out what he just typed.. I eventually just assumed it was a typo and he meant to type ala ntndeacon... That one flew right over my head.
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Old 02-01-2008, 12:15 PM   #1679
Mr. Wednesday
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I officially hate Path12

Good game guys! Sorry I lost it for the workers

I'm surprised you went on claphamsa. When I went back over the voting history, I was pretty certain the last Cougar was either you or Path.
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Old 02-01-2008, 12:19 PM   #1680
Mr. Wednesday
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The last day I was alive I tossed back and forth in my head all day if I wanted to blow up the other wolf team or make things harder for them, or not. I decided to just let things go knowing I was a goner and just see if the villagers could overcome it. I didn't know the role change regarding the fish at the time, so I assumed with my death, it would be a cakewalk for the wolves from that point on (As I warned the entire game but no one listened)
I listened!
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Old 02-01-2008, 12:43 PM   #1681
claphamsa
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Heh. I was just trying to come up with some sort of plausible argument to get you lynched quickly!
well someone pulled it out earlier too....
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Old 02-01-2008, 01:10 PM   #1682
Passacaglia
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That whole thing cracked me up. Both Heinz and Pass saw that right away. I told them that the word 'path' gets used in WW more than you might think........both hoops and Alan use the word quite a bit.

Yeah, but since it was Alan, I just assumed he was taking a lot of care in what he was typing. Hey, it was Day 1, and I wasn't sure how he was going to come out.
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Old 02-01-2008, 01:15 PM   #1683
Passacaglia
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Just to correct what pass said about me as seer: Day 1 I NORMALLY try to scan somebody who received very few votes. The theory is that the 2nd place vote-getter will probably be lynched soon enough anyway, so what's the point. Occasionally the situation does dictate scanning the #2 vote-getter, and this was one of them, partly because Lathum is Lathum, and partly because he was giving me an odd vibe.

It really should have been apparent that I HAD scanned him, though - I pretty much telegrammed that fact with my posts at the beginning of day 2. I always try to leave clues about who I have scanned, and what their allegiance is.

In days 2+, I almost ALWAYS scan the person I vote for, unless there's a specific game situation that calls for somebody to be scanned, or unless I have already scanned a wolf and haven't revealed myself yet - in that case I'll vote the wolf and scan somebody else.

It's interesting that you say that now, since in a PM to me you said you were surprised at how difficult it was to get people to follow me. I suspect some of that was because of the two-team dynamic. To be honest, I didn't see any of the stuff about Lathum. I guess I was pretty much just seeing what I wanted to see, and since I knew Farrah actually was a wolf, it didn't matter to me whether or not you actually scanned her. Plus, it really did remind me of that Willy Wonka game -- I don't remember if you've been a seer since then, but I guess your play that game really stuck out to me.

Would anyone else have gone after Farrah, if I hadn't? I'm wondering if the vote might have gravitated that way without me bringing it up.
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Old 02-01-2008, 01:31 PM   #1684
st.cronin
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It's interesting that you say that now, since in a PM to me you said you were surprised at how difficult it was to get people to follow me. I suspect some of that was because of the two-team dynamic. To be honest, I didn't see any of the stuff about Lathum. I guess I was pretty much just seeing what I wanted to see, and since I knew Farrah actually was a wolf, it didn't matter to me whether or not you actually scanned her. Plus, it really did remind me of that Willy Wonka game -- I don't remember if you've been a seer since then, but I guess your play that game really stuck out to me.

Would anyone else have gone after Farrah, if I hadn't? I'm wondering if the vote might have gravitated that way without me bringing it up.

Both cases should have presented as plausible - either I had scanned Lathum, OR I had scanned Farrah. In neither case should Lathum have been getting votes.
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Old 02-01-2008, 02:01 PM   #1685
Passacaglia
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Both cases should have presented as plausible - either I had scanned Lathum, OR I had scanned Farrah. In neither case should Lathum have been getting votes.

That's a good point. I wasn't all that interested in clearing Lathum, though.
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Old 02-01-2008, 02:14 PM   #1686
Alan T
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Originally Posted by Passacaglia View Post
It's interesting that you say that now, since in a PM to me you said you were surprised at how difficult it was to get people to follow me. I suspect some of that was because of the two-team dynamic. To be honest, I didn't see any of the stuff about Lathum. I guess I was pretty much just seeing what I wanted to see, and since I knew Farrah actually was a wolf, it didn't matter to me whether or not you actually scanned her. Plus, it really did remind me of that Willy Wonka game -- I don't remember if you've been a seer since then, but I guess your play that game really stuck out to me.

Would anyone else have gone after Farrah, if I hadn't? I'm wondering if the vote might have gravitated that way without me bringing it up.


It was day 2, you don't have anything to work on since no wolf had been killed, and everything else left might have been or might not have been red herrings.

The only things to go on for that day were:

1) Look at Lathum closer (which lathum is a good enough player that I didn't see that having legs for long)
2) Look at who was involved with Barkeep the previous day since he was the guy you all chose to kill that night. Ie: Barkeep and Path had a little fling during the previous day before you all killed BK. (Usually of late, people gloss over who the night kill victim had voted for earlier in the game, it is often just an attempt to get people on the wrong trail and it is a hard thing to push too hard for in this game without coming off as appearing to have some other agenda to others.)
3) Run with whom did St.cronin look at heavily as he was the seer.. (This seemed the most viable since Cronin didn't leave a huge hint one way or another that became obvious in an attempt to protect his life) The damning part here was Cronin's utter fixation at staying on Farrah the entire day despite everything else going on near the deadline (even when cronin could have broken a tie, he chose to stay on Farrah, an independant third party).
4) Push people to the anti-fink crowd, and try to encourage people to look at specific people there for other reasons. (This is what I tried to push, and had a decent arguement why.. the main reason the villagers lost the game was the very reason I illustrated this day.)

Problem I ran into was even though there were very few votes casted early in the day, both were for Farrah, and a bigger problem was that of the several people in the thread discussing the situation, far more seemed interested in trusting cronin at faith that he was leaving a hint than trying to take a stab in the dark a different direction. Arles was the only one who was thinking along the lines that I wanted people to, and it was only a matter of time before the 4 or 5 others who were around were going to make their move, so I jumped in early before others did and just ran with it.

Perhaps that is where I helped my team lose the game, just hearing the discussion from several people that morning, it seemed obvious that Farrah was going to get alot of votes, and people were more interested in trying to not have people think they were a wolf, than trying to find a wolf I think at this point.
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Old 02-01-2008, 02:26 PM   #1687
Passacaglia
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Perhaps that is where I helped my team lose the game, just hearing the discussion from several people that morning, it seemed obvious that Farrah was going to get alot of votes, and people were more interested in trying to not have people think they were a wolf, than trying to find a wolf I think at this point.

I think you made the right move there, actually -- despite the fact that I later tried to spin it every which way from Sunday. I think you were right that Farrah was probably going down even that early, and the best move was to let her go, then go for me the next day to even the score.
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Old 02-01-2008, 03:16 PM   #1688
Alan T
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Originally Posted by Passacaglia View Post
I think you made the right move there, actually -- despite the fact that I later tried to spin it every which way from Sunday. I think you were right that Farrah was probably going down even that early, and the best move was to let her go, then go for me the next day to even the score.


That is what my goal was, unfortunately it never gained traction.
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Old 02-01-2008, 03:57 PM   #1689
jeheinz72
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I think just looking at your posts Alan would've provided the answer on my fake reveal. You were all up in my business there the first few days.
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Old 02-01-2008, 08:30 PM   #1690
Chief Rum
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Originally Posted by jeheinz72 View Post
CR, question for you, what happened on Night 3 when I was doing the killing as our Strongest Killer? Did they send their strongest but we were trumped because we had more members alive?

One of the few things I "randomized" was which team would open with the highest "killer" and which the highest "fish". I had it set up so that Team A had the 1st, 4th, 5th and 8th best killers and 2nd, 3rd, 5th, and 6th best fishers and vica versa for Team B. This switched every wolf kill night.

The Crew "won" that first right of having the best killer for the first three nights (and Cougars had the best fisher). They sent Farrah to do the killing that day and she was their strongest. So the Crew took that one as a result.
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Old 02-01-2008, 08:31 PM   #1691
Chief Rum
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Originally Posted by Lathum View Post
Then I have to ask what is the point of a bodyguard if ultimatly there will be a kill anyway?

You still get a block. You may not stop the kill, but you save your target. And there is value in that (IMO). Heck, it saved you.
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Last edited by Chief Rum : 02-01-2008 at 08:41 PM.
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Old 02-01-2008, 08:35 PM   #1692
Chief Rum
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Originally Posted by st.cronin View Post
+1, that mechanic seems backwards to me - determine who the killer is, then check the bodyguard block.

Definitely a good game, Chief. Was fun to read along.

Hmm, not sure you're understanding, or perhaps I am not understanding what you're getting it.

There are two sets of killers, each with their target. There is a BG with one person to protect. They all influence at the same time, during the day leading up to the night's results. No one goes before anyone else.

And, of course, when there is one wolf team, it would have been a standard block if Lathum were still around.
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Last edited by Chief Rum : 02-01-2008 at 08:42 PM.
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Old 02-01-2008, 08:41 PM   #1693
Passacaglia
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Man...there was at least one post where I intentionally mixed up the names of the two teams...plus I kept saying stuff like "the other team" to imply that I didn't really remember which team is which, hoping that people voting (or even better, the duke) would pick up on how clueless I was. Oh, well.
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Old 02-01-2008, 09:44 PM   #1694
Alan T
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Originally Posted by Passacaglia View Post
Man...there was at least one post where I intentionally mixed up the names of the two teams...plus I kept saying stuff like "the other team" to imply that I didn't really remember which team is which, hoping that people voting (or even better, the duke) would pick up on how clueless I was. Oh, well.


Don't worry, I picked up on how clueless you were!
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