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Old 07-25-2005, 12:32 PM   #201
hoopsguy
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Is the general strategy going to be like this weekend - wait until it is crunch time to throw out names? I'm generally concerned about the ratio right now as well, but figure the best thing we can do is nail an alien with our vote tonight. Everything else is out of our control, it seems.

I'm still leaning pretty heavily towards voting for Blade. He was on the firing line last night and got off the hook. His behavior last night left me a little bit unnerved about him relative to the other three (Mr Wednesday, Fouts, Qwikshot), mainly because I don't have an impression of them yet.

Does anyone have any reason to suspect any of these four beyond voting patterns yesterday? It isn't a ton to go on, but I'm not sure what else we have right now.
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Old 07-25-2005, 12:39 PM   #202
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I haven't seen anything to go on aside from voting patterns. The problem there is, you can pick just about any vote and find some sort of problem with it. Us four, because we were deciding votes on Schmidty. Digamma and kingfc22, because they started the bandwagon on him. And so on... I haven't decided which way I want to go with it yet.
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Old 07-25-2005, 12:40 PM   #203
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Dola, throwing out names is one thing, but I think people tend to be a little gunshy about opening up voting. I know I am, it got me lynched in VI.
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Old 07-25-2005, 01:07 PM   #204
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We still don't have a lot to go on.

We did have a tie vote that was broken. Tie breaking can be a good data point (if not for this vote, then for future votes).

I also like Peregrine's point about people who spread their vote around. It can be easy for the bad guys to spread votes around in the early stages.

I think it's too early for strategic role reveals, but maybe some speculation on what roles might be out there?

We know we have 5 aliens (or ectoplasmic sources) now. And we know that number went up from 4 on the first day. Obviously, it looks like the aliens can convert.

On the good guys side, I'm wondering what roles might be out there.

The other WW games have consistently featured a bodyguard type role and a spy role. Thoughts on others we might have? A duke type? A doctor?
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Old 07-25-2005, 02:08 PM   #205
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Digamma, here are the roles people have annoited themselves with so far:

Neon_Chaos - squaddie
JeeberD - sergeant
Coffee Warlord - master sergent
Swaggs - sergeant
Vince - squaddie
Kingfc22 - pilot
Fouts - tech

Many of these have followed up with an explanation that they were role-playing the character. Think any of them are actually listing a role? Any of these roles look a little ... peculiar?

This is a line of thought that I wanted to explore more a little later, since it distracts a little from my first 'weed out the aliens' strategy. But there doesn't seem to be much conversation in that direction.
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Old 07-25-2005, 02:10 PM   #206
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Of what you have listed, the only role in there NOT from the actual game is the Technician.

For what it's worth.
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Old 07-25-2005, 02:14 PM   #207
digamma
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoopsguy
Many of these have followed up with an explanation that they were role-playing the character. Think any of them are actually listing a role? Any of these roles look a little ... peculiar?

This is a line of thought that I wanted to explore more a little later, since it distracts a little from my first 'weed out the aliens' strategy. But there doesn't seem to be much conversation in that direction.

That's the key question to me. I think most people have given themselves a title, like in the real game, as CW points out. I'm more concerned with what resources we might have at our disposal in this game.

I'm not sure if I agree that it is a distraction, as I think the roles and their uses may be useful for weeding out aliens.
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Old 07-25-2005, 02:32 PM   #208
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I don't think it is a distraction in that sense, digamma. I was just hoping that we could try to tighten the web on the four people I've been highlighting up to this point. Even with four people that is quite a few to consider. But if we extend our search to all thirteen people (basically every besides yourself) then there is so much more to evaluate.

At this point, I'm going with my gut. Hope we don't screw this up ...

Vote Blade6119
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Old 07-25-2005, 03:00 PM   #209
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without giving away too much and making myself the next easy target, let me shine some light on my role(with an excerpt that others who share that role will understand entirely...if this doesnt prove me innocent, then god knows what will:

Role: You were one of the X-Com agents who spent mission after mission blasting the bad guys. You thought that after Cydonia, that things would finally be over. But it looks like not all the bad guys truly died after the final mission

Again, that is an excerpt as to not blatantly say whats up...most others here should recognize that from their intial roles, as id assume most of us are grunts(crap, gave it away ). Im not voting for hoopsguy, as i feel he has good intentions and is on my side as well. Actually, im quite confident hes on my side, despite his disbelief in me.

Ill hold off my vote until i know better who is bad...with the 13-5 ratio, we cant afford to make mistakes
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Old 07-25-2005, 03:02 PM   #210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingfc22
Vote Schmidty

Simply because he has not made a sound.
Ironic. Since I explained earlier who I suspect, I'll throw out a dart since you're quiet. This was your last post.

Vote kingfc22

I stick with the philosophy that you're trying to fly under the radar and let us take each other out. You were the second one to vote for Schmidty yesterday (bandwagon), and since you weren't on hoopsguy's list of suspects I think you're remaining quiet. Maybe this will draw you out.
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Old 07-25-2005, 03:04 PM   #211
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blade6119
Ill hold off my vote until i know better who is bad...with the 13-5 ratio, we cant afford to make mistakes
Technically 8-5 ratio
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Old 07-25-2005, 03:05 PM   #212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raiders Army
Ironic. Since I explained earlier who I suspect, I'll throw out a dart since you're quiet. This was your last post.

Vote kingfc22

I stick with the philosophy that you're trying to fly under the radar and let us take each other out. You were the second one to vote for Schmidty yesterday (bandwagon), and since you weren't on hoopsguy's list of suspects I think you're remaining quiet. Maybe this will draw you out.

LOL, nice find...i didnt even know he was playing...i gotta go look over that inital list again to see who else im glazing over.
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Old 07-25-2005, 03:05 PM   #213
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raiders Army
Technically 8-5 ratio

13-5 sounds better...makes me feel likes its less bleak...glass half-full kind of thing.
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Old 07-25-2005, 03:21 PM   #214
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This changes things ...

Unvote Blade6119

I know that there was a role in the last game that gave away roles, but would SirFozzie reveal role descriptions to the enemy as well? That feels like a stretch to me.

If Blade isn't guilty then the whole center of my earlier argument doesn't hold up very well. If anyone who has silently supported my line of thought can somehow connect dots that I'm not connecting then I'm more than willing to be talked back in this direction. But right now I'm feeling a little lost and frustrated because I don't see any rhyme or reason from everything that has transpired so far.

I guess this is part of what makes the game fun, but it doesn't feel that way right now. Sigh ...
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Old 07-25-2005, 03:44 PM   #215
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Hmm, interesting Blade. That's a pretty potent revelation, though we have to keep in mind that one person was converted last night, if it was you, then you'd know what your original role was. However, my gut tells me that the aliens wouldn't have converted someone who got a lot of votes yesterday.
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Old 07-25-2005, 04:02 PM   #216
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blade6119
Role: You were one of the X-Com agents who spent mission after mission blasting the bad guys. You thought that after Cydonia, that things would finally be over. But it looks like not all the bad guys truly died after the final mission

Again, that is an excerpt as to not blatantly say whats up...most others here should recognize that from their intial roles, as id assume most of us are grunts(crap, gave it away ). Im not voting for hoopsguy, as i feel he has good intentions and is on my side as well. Actually, im quite confident hes on my side, despite his disbelief in me.
But, we don't know how much of that text gets re-used for other roles.
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Old 07-25-2005, 04:04 PM   #217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoopsguy
If Blade isn't guilty then the whole center of my earlier argument doesn't hold up very well. If anyone who has silently supported my line of thought can somehow connect dots that I'm not connecting then I'm more than willing to be talked back in this direction. But right now I'm feeling a little lost and frustrated because I don't see any rhyme or reason from everything that has transpired so far.
As I said earlier, we can find reasons to suspect everyone. Probably the strongest circumstantial evidence we have at the moment is against the people (me included) who cast deciding votes against Schmidty, and against the people that got the bandwagon going against him (and possibly the ones who kicked off the bandwagon against Blade, as well).

If we assume that there are "spy" type roles, then it may be of some value to ponder the lone votes.

If we learn a lesson from VI, we know that we should be suspicious of Fouts self-proclaiming an interesting "hidden role".
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Old 07-25-2005, 04:05 PM   #218
Mr. Wednesday
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Double dola, with Schmidty apparantly one of the good guys, if Blade was also one of the good guys, then the bad guys would obviously want us to be deciding between them, and wouldn't care whether they cast a deciding vote on the matter or not.
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Old 07-25-2005, 04:09 PM   #219
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Actually Blade let me amend what I said above, I was wrong, your information is fairly useless. You could be a good guy, sure, but if a grunt got converted last night then he could have told all the other aliens his role, it could be used as an interesting cover. I'll have to think about this.

I'm looking at kingfc22 now, his silence and safe vote are rather interesting.

Keep in mind that if there are any "secret" roles they better get moving.
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Old 07-25-2005, 04:17 PM   #220
Blade6119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Wednesday
But, we don't know how much of that text gets re-used for other roles.

Grunt: You were one of the X-Com agents who spent mission after mission blasting the bad guys. You thought that after Cydonia, that things would finally be over. But it looks like not all the bad guys truly died after the final mission, and your mission is to make sure the world stays safe from the alien menace. Screw this up, and all your friends and comrades sacrifices might mean nothing except a delay from an awful fate.

Special Ability: None, but there's more of you then there are of them. At least, you hope.
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Old 07-25-2005, 04:17 PM   #221
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I'm going to go ahead and call out Kingfc. If he's at work, and responds when he gets home, then I'll re-evaluate. For now....

Vote Kingfc22
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Old 07-25-2005, 04:22 PM   #222
Blade6119
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king i an interesting choice, but its my guy that the aliens arent just avoiding the game...their around in my mind, just not hogging the spotlight. King seems to b awol, which i why im hesitent...

In regards to answering you ? peregrine, i stated my grunt role long before someone got converted...i didnt give the wording as at the time i didnt see a need...but look back at my debates with hoopsguy and i claimed to be a grunt loonog before anyone got converted. On the other hand, i see your point, as as a veteran of these i trust your judgement in general...im just hoping your judgement doesnt involve me getting blasted to bits, as i think we need everyone we can get to win this.
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Old 07-25-2005, 04:22 PM   #223
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double dola, headed to work for a couple hours, be back later tonight
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Old 07-25-2005, 04:36 PM   #224
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My question about kingfc was the pilot role he claimed earlier - that is the one that felt the most contrived to me. I know that we had pilots in the dynasty and it makes sense that someone is a pilot. But I can't envision what that role would be in the sake of this game. We are in the base and not getting out until we have bagged our allotment of aliens. What is the pilot role bringing to the table here? Just seemed weird.

I haven't seen king lurking in the thread at all, which makes me believe he might not have PC access. I know he had trouble with his Internet in the last game (VI). But the pilot thing just had me scratching my head.

Peregrine, the role reveal makes a lot of sense. I'm just a little concerned at this point that I'm looking for reasons to shoot Blade rather than reasons to exonerate him.
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Old 07-25-2005, 04:44 PM   #225
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Checking in, I was switched to dayshift after 7 years of 2nd.

I think king was a pilot in the Godzilla Blitz dynasty...but I can't recall.
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Old 07-25-2005, 04:45 PM   #226
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I'm going to stir up this voting and

vote Fouts

Fouts, any reasons why you aren't an alien?
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Old 07-25-2005, 04:47 PM   #227
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This is getting pretty interesting with kingfc22 at this point. The longer he goes without responding, I can only think of two possibilities:

1. He's innocent and is unavailable
2. He's guilty and wants us to think he's unavailable

The second possibility is intriguing, but I think there will come a time when he will need to speak up or he's gone.
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Old 07-25-2005, 04:47 PM   #228
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Sorry to have not been around this morning guys -- had to take my grandfather to the dentist. I don't know what's worse -- going to the dentist, or sitting for two hours in the dentist's waiting room listening to the drill. *Shivers*

Well, Blade seems to have the description nailed down pat -- but as Peregrine mentioned (maybe someone else did too, not sure) -- there's an extra alien now, and no extra bodies that we are aware of. That means that the aliens have somehow managed to convert someone (the scream last night tends to also imply that there was a conversion, rather than some sort of cloning process or something), and someone who COULD have been a Grunt could now be an alien, and able to flash that description.

This isn't going to be easy, that's for sure.
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Old 07-25-2005, 04:47 PM   #229
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I'm not sure King is an alien just because he is quiet. Schmidty was quiet and we were wrong. I don't want to be wrong again. My greatest fear is becoming some alien thing. I'm inclined to vote for Blade, Qwikshot or Mr. Wednesday since I am grouped with them.
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Old 07-25-2005, 04:48 PM   #230
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peregrine
I'm going to stir up this voting and

vote Fouts

Fouts, any reasons why you aren't an alien?
Why Fouts? You're quickly becoming my second choice if kingfc22 speaks up with a good excuse. I'd think after past Werewolf games, you would know that people always need some type of rationale of who you vote for since you'll become a target if you don't say why.
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Old 07-25-2005, 04:49 PM   #231
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peregrine
I'm going to stir up this voting and

vote Fouts

Fouts, any reasons why you aren't an alien?

As I have said, I am a deathly afraid of these aliens. I really don't want to be here and it is looking more like we are all going to become one of them. Let's really look at who is putting up the smokescreens.
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Old 07-25-2005, 04:51 PM   #232
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I vote Peregrine.

Call it latent anger at the randomness of my death in his last incarnation of the game

Seriously though -- Peregrine has been fairly quiet, but not too quiet. He threw out the first shot against Schmidty, and while it's commendable to start things off, we did see how that went. Now, he has without any warning, fired a shot at Fouts. His only other thought in the post is "Any reasons why you aren't an alien?" I just get a bad feeling about him.
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Old 07-25-2005, 04:53 PM   #233
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Dola -- I also want to let people know that I am fully willing to change my vote if new information comes to light.
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Old 07-25-2005, 04:54 PM   #234
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Fouts, since you have outted your role, I'm interested in seeing if you could give up some details of what you do.
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Old 07-25-2005, 04:55 PM   #235
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vince
I vote Peregrine.

Call it latent anger at the randomness of my death in his last incarnation of the game

Seriously though -- Peregrine has been fairly quiet, but not too quiet. He threw out the first shot against Schmidty, and while it's commendable to start things off, we did see how that went. Now, he has without any warning, fired a shot at Fouts. His only other thought in the post is "Any reasons why you aren't an alien?" I just get a bad feeling about him.

Although I appreciate the support, I think Peregrine is a grunt. Mostly because he is trigger happy. Still looking at the 3 people grouped with me on the last vote. I can't believe we're throwing that down the tubes.
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Old 07-25-2005, 05:01 PM   #236
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Still looking at the 3 people grouped with me on the last vote. I can't believe we're throwing that down the tubes.

Me either, Fouts. Although I'm a little surprised you are the one with me reinforcing this idea. The "deathly afraid of aliens" defense isn't exactly inspired but you seem to be moving in the same path as me with your voting process right now. Enemy of my enemy is my friend? Or just hoping that Blade gets the attention out of you four by virtue of being the most vocal?
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Old 07-25-2005, 05:02 PM   #237
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Just one thing, the aliens can email amongst themselves right...so what if the one they assimilated was a grunt, and therefore they could forward the description to the accused to prove credibility?
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Old 07-25-2005, 05:06 PM   #238
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Why Fouts? You're quickly becoming my second choice if kingfc22 speaks up with a good excuse. I'd think after past Werewolf games, you would know that people always need some type of rationale of who you vote for since you'll become a target if you don't say why.

It's not a final vote, it's an accusation. Get people talking, seeing their name in bold, and sometimes they make a mistake. I'm just stirring things up.
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Old 07-25-2005, 05:07 PM   #239
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Originally Posted by Swaggs
Fouts, since you have outted your role, I'm interested in seeing if you could give up some details of what you do.

I won't, and you don't want me to. Seriously, Peregrine, Vince, Swaggs... you guys need me.
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Old 07-25-2005, 05:07 PM   #240
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That's what you said in VI.
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Old 07-25-2005, 05:09 PM   #241
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That's what you said in VI.

This is a new game, and in the last one I was full of it. I was way out there.
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Old 07-25-2005, 05:09 PM   #242
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No dice, Vince. I'm plenty human, if for no other reason than SirFozzie had already assigned the roles before I even started. You think he would have saved an alien role for a 15th player that may or may not have ever showed up? Unlikely.
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Old 07-25-2005, 05:12 PM   #243
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Seems that way, Qwik. Was just musing to myself about who I would convert last night if I was the aliens. I would have bagged Peregrine, who has run a few of these games and who is the most likely player to improve overall team strategy. Then he releases the information to the aliends and comes up later that afternoon to point out the flaw in doing so, thus reducing any suspicions that he was converted.

I'm not ready to go down this path quite yet, but if I was guessing who was screaming last night he is at the top of the list.

I'm really not sure what I'm waiting for on voting either ... Vote Blade6119
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Old 07-25-2005, 05:15 PM   #244
Fouts
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I really think people leave subtle clues in what they post. You just have to look at it closely. Most time though, it is only good information once they are dead. Only the dead can be trusted.
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Old 07-25-2005, 05:24 PM   #245
Swaggs
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I am far from certain, but I am guessing that hoopsguy was converted last night. He "outted" himself as a grunt immediately after Schmidty was lynched. That pretty much told the aliens that you didn't have any special powers that could harm them (like a counterstrike) and made you unlikely to be lynched in the following days.

Voting for Blade6119 after he, more or less, verified his role as a grunt smells fishy to me.

I Vote hoopsguy
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Old 07-25-2005, 05:31 PM   #246
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Well, I've now got a whole bunch of interesting data on people voting, but I'm not sure how much is worth a damn. So far, the only prominent pattern I've identified is HoopsGuy voting for Blade.
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Old 07-25-2005, 05:35 PM   #247
Mr. Wednesday
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So far:
Peregrine opened voting overall on Day 1, and opened voting for Fouts on Day 2.
RA and CW both voted for kingfc22 after not casting a vote on Day 1. kingfc22 was the second voter for Schmidty yesterday.
Vince opened voting for Peregrine today after opening voting for Swaggs on Day 1 (with Swaggs not picking up any additional votes).
Swaggs piled onto Blade on day 1, then opened voting on HoopsGuy today.
Myself, Fouts, and Qwikshot all piled on Schmidty on day 1 and have yet to cast a vote today, although both myself and Fouts have been active in discussion.
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Old 07-25-2005, 05:36 PM   #248
Mr. Wednesday
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Dola, and HoopsGuy opened voting overall today on Blade, before recanting and then unrecanting the vote.
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Old 07-25-2005, 05:37 PM   #249
Vince
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peregrine
No dice, Vince. I'm plenty human, if for no other reason than SirFozzie had already assigned the roles before I even started. You think he would have saved an alien role for a 15th player that may or may not have ever showed up? Unlikely.

That's a pretty good reason...and you have been putting a bit more of the strategy talk out there than even an alien trying to be inconspicuous would do. Sigh. Last time I was a bad guy, and it was so easy because you KNEW a lot. Without knowing anything, the paranoia starts to set in...

Unvote peregrine.
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Old 07-25-2005, 05:39 PM   #250
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Sweet. My first time ever getting a vote in a werewolf game (four or five game days)!

I don't find anything in your logic to disagree with - I would probably have put myself pretty high on the "to convert" list when I was tryinig to think like an alien, but it doesn't make sense to consider yourself in an argument since you know EXACTLY what you are while you are guessing at everyone else.

I think Blade would have come off as a little more believable if he hadn't been so blatant in his grunt advertising - posting the entire description and practically beating his chest while revealing it. Who knows, maybe I'm looking too deeply into it but here it goes ...

In post #208 I cast my vote saying "Hope we don't screw this up", looking for a fellow grunt to pick up on this and complete part of the description in their reply. But in the very next post Blade drops half of the description and then the other half a few replies down. So now that information is completely shot for authenticating 'grunt' status.

Maybe I was being too subtle (like Fouts alluded to in one of his weird posts) in going after it this way, but Blade certainly wasn't. I was trying to figure out why he would posture like this:

A.) He is a grunt and is pretty sure I'm going to lead a charge to lynch him
B.) He is an alien and has the description, as outlined by a couple of other people

I'll leave it for other people to figure out which of these seems to fit better.
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