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Old 06-08-2009, 07:57 PM   #301
hoopsguy
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Originally Posted by path12 View Post
OK, get to work, sign in, log onto FOFC, fuck. Blocked. If I'd known I would have dropped, because I think it's not fair to the other players plus too hard to really keep up myself with my evening schedule.

Give this a try - it works for my work.
75.126.153.99/fofc
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Old 06-08-2009, 07:59 PM   #302
Autumn
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You realize that jailing and lynching votes don't stack, right King Schmidty?
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Old 06-08-2009, 08:04 PM   #303
Passacaglia
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Give this a try - it works for my work.
75.126.153.99/fofc

If that doesn't work, email me.
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Old 06-08-2009, 08:13 PM   #304
path12
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Give this a try - it works for my work.
75.126.153.99/fofc

Thanks hoops, I just emailed it to myself and will try in the morning.
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Old 06-08-2009, 08:48 PM   #305
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Kind of ironic since I haven't been around either but I'll vote for the last person not to check in.

VOTE JAIL KWHIT
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Old 06-08-2009, 08:49 PM   #306
Schmidty
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You realize that jailing and lynching votes don't stack, right King Schmidty?

Yes.
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Old 06-08-2009, 08:50 PM   #307
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Dola.

I just think the jailing thing is being overrated at this point. I might change before the deadline, but I don't really know what good it would do.
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Old 06-08-2009, 08:53 PM   #308
Autumn
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I think it's a better option first day than lynching. Everyone always complains about how we invariably kill a villager first night. Why not jail one instead and stand a chance of getting them back? Worst I can see happening is we happened to randomly pick a wolf, they can break them out.
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Old 06-08-2009, 08:56 PM   #309
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I think it's a better option first day than lynching. Everyone always complains about how we invariably kill a villager first night. Why not jail one instead and stand a chance of getting them back? Worst I can see happening is we happened to randomly pick a wolf, they can break them out.

How do we find out if they're good or not? Waste a scan along with a lynch? I just don't feel good about the jailing thing, but I suppose I also see the other side as well.
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Old 06-08-2009, 08:57 PM   #310
Autumn
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No, I wouldn't waste a scan. Let them sit there and hope the King gets lucky.
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Old 06-08-2009, 08:59 PM   #311
RendeR
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But how long do we leave someone in jail if the king doesn't hit on his 20%?
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Old 06-08-2009, 09:03 PM   #312
Schmidty
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No, I wouldn't waste a scan. Let them sit there and hope the King gets lucky.

Well, that makes a little more sense, even if it doesn't seem very efficient.
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Old 06-08-2009, 09:04 PM   #313
Schmidty
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But how long do we leave someone in jail if the king doesn't hit on his 20%?

Good point.

Plus it gives the Dark One a chance to hit a jackpot if we keep jailing people and then he attacks the prison.
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Old 06-08-2009, 09:07 PM   #314
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Good point.

Plus it gives the Dark One a chance to hit a jackpot if we keep jailing people and then he attacks the prison.

I think the jail should only have 1-2 people it at a time, the king should (especially when we get ones we trust) should be killing off people to keep it at that number.
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Old 06-08-2009, 09:11 PM   #315
Schmidty
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Just a note to everyone - As I stated before, tomorrow is the only day I work this work this week. I won't be around from 12 p.m. EST - 5 p.m. EST. Of course, I'll get my night action in tonight, and I'll be around for both deadlines tomorrow. And that will be the only time that happens this week. (suck it, Lathum)
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Old 06-08-2009, 09:11 PM   #316
Danny
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I think the jail should only have 1-2 people it at a time, the king should (especially when we get ones we trust) should be killing off people to keep it at that number.

Or releasing them if they are cleared, point remains that letting the jail get to big is likely not a good idea
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Old 06-08-2009, 09:12 PM   #317
Schmidty
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I think the jail should only have 1-2 people it at a time, the king should (especially when we get ones we trust) should be killing off people to keep it at that number.

When we get players we trust, or a king we trust? Just wanted a clarification.
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Old 06-08-2009, 09:12 PM   #318
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But how long do we leave someone in jail if the king doesn't hit on his 20%?

Forever? What's the downside of leaving people in there? I don't see any.

We're not giving the Dark One a jackpot unless we happened to jail a bunch of wolves. WE're giving them an anti-jackpot. If we jail a wolf and there's four villagers in with him that's great for us and our ratio.
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Old 06-08-2009, 09:14 PM   #319
Danny
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Forever? What's the downside of leaving people in there? I don't see any.

We're not giving the Dark One a jackpot unless we happened to jail a bunch of wolves. WE're giving them an anti-jackpot. If we jail a wolf and there's four villagers in with him that's great for us and our ratio.


This doesn't work, the dark one can hit the jail freeing everyone in there. If there is a lot of people this tells us nothing about who released is a wolf/villager.
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Old 06-08-2009, 09:14 PM   #320
Autumn
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I think the jail should only have 1-2 people it at a time, the king should (especially when we get ones we trust) should be killing off people to keep it at that number.

What would be the point of that? That's keeping it at a worthwhile size for a jailbreak. The bigger the more chance it's crammed with villagers.
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Old 06-08-2009, 09:14 PM   #321
Telle
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vote KWhit jail
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Old 06-08-2009, 09:15 PM   #322
Autumn
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This doesn't work, the dark one can hit the jail freeing everyone in there. If there is a lot of people this tells us nothing about who released is a wolf/villager.

I suppose so, but it also means it sets the wolves way back.

Leaving one or two in there helps us guess who's bad, yes, but it also makes it a lot more worthwhile for the DO to even try.
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Old 06-08-2009, 09:15 PM   #323
Danny
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What would be the point of that? That's keeping it at a worthwhile size for a jailbreak. The bigger the more chance it's crammed with villagers.

Exactly, if the wolves spend a night kill on freeing a prison with only 1 or 2 in there, well we probably have a good idea a wolf is there. If there are three our four players, it might be worth it for the wolves to free them all if only one wolf is there, or who knows maybe two or three could be in there and that could help give them the numbers they need later in the game.
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Old 06-08-2009, 09:15 PM   #324
Autumn
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dola

I don't think we should jail every day though, despite all that. Since we won't get a reveal at jailing we need to lynch when we have a pretty good guess at someone.
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Old 06-08-2009, 09:17 PM   #325
Danny
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dola

I don't think we should jail every day though, despite all that. Since we won't get a reveal at jailing we need to lynch when we have a pretty good guess at someone.

We'll see how this plays out, but this does remove the power from the king. Depending on how the game goes, it may not be a bad idea to not keep anyone in jail.
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Old 06-08-2009, 09:21 PM   #326
Autumn
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Exactly, if the wolves spend a night kill on freeing a prison with only 1 or 2 in there, well we probably have a good idea a wolf is there. If there are three our four players, it might be worth it for the wolves to free them all if only one wolf is there, or who knows maybe two or three could be in there and that could help give them the numbers they need later in the game.

I see what you mean but if we have a jail with two or three wolves in it we'll be the greatest village in history. What's the village's voting record over the last half dozen games? Not anywhere near that good. The likelihood is that it will be a bunch of villagers and will set the wolves back days to let them out.

I think one way to play this would be to jail everybody and let the King weed them out. Yes, I know that depends on a trustworthy king. But it would give the village a big advantage.
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Old 06-08-2009, 09:24 PM   #327
Autumn
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We'll see how this plays out, but this does remove the power from the king. Depending on how the game goes, it may not be a bad idea to not keep anyone in jail.

I think giving up on the King would be basically giving up on the game. We need to work at getting a cleared King in there to win, I would guess.
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Old 06-08-2009, 09:30 PM   #328
Danny
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I think giving up on the King would be basically giving up on the game. We need to work at getting a cleared King in there to win, I would guess.

Cleared kings probably won't last long, I think depending on a King would set us up for failure. I think we should play this as close to regular WW as possible and just use the King as a potential extra helpful bonus. I have been burned the worst in games by giving one person too much trust or power (Alan in Marvel game, Dubb last games)
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Old 06-08-2009, 09:33 PM   #329
Autumn
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No one else has anything to add, eh?

I really can't see that flooding the jails and making the wolves release a bunch of villagers for each wolf can't help us. Confusing, yes. Extending the game indefinitely while we knock them off, yes.
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Old 06-08-2009, 09:40 PM   #330
Telle
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My only issue with going with the jail instead of lynches is that there's no reveal upon jailing. And I can see that making this a very frustrating game.
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Old 06-08-2009, 09:40 PM   #331
KWhit
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Finally caught up. It was a shitty day at work including the fun of my boss asking me to work "off the clock" for 15 hours a week as a contractor to "prove myself" to him to be able to be considered for a full time position. Asshole.

Anyway...

Looks like I'm the jailed guy so far (anybody have a vote count?)...
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Old 06-08-2009, 09:41 PM   #332
Danny
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My only issue with going with the jail instead of lynches is that there's no reveal upon jailing. And I can see that making this a very frustrating game.

I agree, nobody voted out should be living too long. The wolves need to know there votes will be accounted for and not simply dwindle with someone sitting in jail.
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Old 06-08-2009, 09:42 PM   #333
Schmidty
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I think giving up on the King would be basically giving up on the game. We need to work at getting a cleared King in there to win, I would guess.

By all means, please clear me. I want to stick around for a while!!!

I guess the best shot I have is getting a wolf who's in jail right away, or changing the vote and getting a lucky hit.
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Old 06-08-2009, 09:44 PM   #334
KWhit
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I don't really think jailing and then scanning is the best course of action, and I also don't like the idea of jailing the guy who first supported me, so I'm choosing from someone who missed the vote for King:

Vote lynch Kwit

Why the bloodlust, King?
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Old 06-08-2009, 09:45 PM   #335
Danny
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By all means, please clear me. I want to stick around for a while!!!

I guess the best shot I have is getting a wolf who's in jail right away, or changing the vote and getting a lucky hit.

Unfortunately you can't be cleared now. Your best is like you said to find a wolf in prison or hit with a duke. But even then, it is likely you will be lynched at some point.
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Old 06-08-2009, 09:45 PM   #336
Tyrith
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Well, the main problem with the jail flooding is that it makes it harder to figure out what is going on should they all get out. However, there's not really any downside to keeping them locked up for the time being - it gives us time to get lucky with auras, scan potentially important people, and keep their opinions in the game.
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Old 06-08-2009, 09:47 PM   #337
Tyrith
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This is quite liable to come back, but I want him to talk about his opinions on mechanics first.

UNVOTE JAIL KWHIT
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Old 06-08-2009, 09:48 PM   #338
KWhit
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I agree, nobody voted out should be living too long. The wolves need to know there votes will be accounted for and not simply dwindle with someone sitting in jail.

I disagree. As the one who may be going to jail tonight, I may be biased...

But...

Waiting for the king's 20% to kick in is like getting a free scan. I think the probabilities play out better if the people in jail are allowed to live until the King can identify their aura and that way we find out the identity of more people over time. It's like having 1.2 seers instead of just one. Over a long-ish game, that can add up to a significant advantage.
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Old 06-08-2009, 09:51 PM   #339
Danny
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I disagree. As the one who may be going to jail tonight, I may be biased...

But...

Waiting for the king's 20% to kick in is like getting a free scan. I think the probabilities play out better if the people in jail are allowed to live until the King can identify their aura and that way we find out the identity of more people over time. It's like having 1.2 seers instead of just one. Over a long-ish game, that can add up to a significant advantage.

I think it definitely depends on how the game goes and if you are jailed tonight I am not in favor of you being killed the first night.
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Old 06-08-2009, 09:54 PM   #340
path12
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I think the one drawback to the flooding the jail option is that if we have people in there with good roles, they can't use them which ends up hurting us. Especially if we've got two-three waiting for a 20% chance of scanning.

If I was a wolf I'd be all over that idea.
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Old 06-08-2009, 09:54 PM   #341
KWhit
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This is quite liable to come back, but I want him to talk about his opinions on mechanics first.

UNVOTE JAIL KWHIT

The jail is an interesting mechanic. I actually don't mind being placed there as I know if given the time, the King will see my good aura and clear me. Also, I don't think it likely to be a quick target of the Dark One - especially once we get more than one person in there, because it will be a good place for the bodyguard to protect (since by protecting the prison, the bodyguard will effectively be protecting more than one person at a time...).
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Old 06-08-2009, 09:56 PM   #342
KWhit
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I think the one drawback to the flooding the jail option is that if we have people in there with good roles, they can't use them which ends up hurting us. Especially if we've got two-three waiting for a 20% chance of scanning.

If I was a wolf I'd be all over that idea.

True and a good point.

I personally am just a lame no-role villager, so it does no harm to put me in there and wait on the king to identify me. So no worries about any cool ability being wasted by putting me in there.

So I'm fine with going to jail for a bit (even though it will make the game somewhat boring until I'm released).
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Old 06-08-2009, 09:56 PM   #343
hoopsguy
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I don't think we need to adopt any kind of a hard-and-fast rule prior to putting people in jail.

Ultimately, the King gets to make decisions on how to proceed with the people in jail. He can either hope his 20% scan comes into play and let them live or he can gas them. Pretty simple, and it is his call every day.

Meanwhile, I think that if there is not a person in jail and we don't have a clear lynch, or a 1:1 trade option available, then we stick someone in the jail and let the king decide how to proceed. Part of voting someone in as king is giving them some license to make decisions. And then we get to second guess them when they are wrong
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Old 06-08-2009, 09:57 PM   #344
path12
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BTW, since KWhit is here now I'll also follow Pass' suggestion.

UNVOTE JAIL KWHIT
VOTE JAIL PASS
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Old 06-08-2009, 09:57 PM   #345
Telle
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I think the one drawback to the flooding the jail option is that if we have people in there with good roles, they can't use them which ends up hurting us. Especially if we've got two-three waiting for a 20% chance of scanning.

If I was a wolf I'd be all over that idea.

But isn't the alternative to lynch them instead? Then they're gone for good.
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Old 06-08-2009, 09:58 PM   #346
path12
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especially once we get more than one person in there, because it will be a good place for the bodyguard to protect (since by protecting the prison, the bodyguard will effectively be protecting more than one person at a time...).

My understanding is that it can't be guarded on consecutive nights.
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Old 06-08-2009, 10:00 PM   #347
KWhit
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My understanding is that it can't be guarded on consecutive nights.

Correct, but the Dark one will know that the possibility of guarding is there and usually won't know which night it is being guarded. I would think that would make it a less likely place for the wolves to strike.
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Old 06-08-2009, 10:01 PM   #348
path12
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But isn't the alternative to lynch them instead? Then they're gone for good.

I'm talking about putting a bunch of people in jail as Autumn suggested. I don't see the harm of putting one person in pending clearance, but frankly other than day 1 would rather lynch.
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Old 06-08-2009, 10:01 PM   #349
Danny
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Vote jail Barkeep

I don't really like any of our choices, but a three horse race isn't a bad idea. Although I don't know where the vote count is.
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Old 06-08-2009, 10:02 PM   #350
path12
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I'm not sure of the count either. But you're past deadline, right? I thought it was 10 Eastern.
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