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Old 03-11-2015, 03:45 PM   #601
cheekimonk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fontisian View Post
Vote: Cheekimonk
Tell you what, you tell me what the obvious thing you did wrong was, and I'll point out the less obvious thing for future reference.

I think, from your quote, you're implying I'm Nosta? Read the post below from EF. EF is the bodyguard and has to be dead soon or later for the wolves to win. Unless I'm reading the role wrong, but I don't think I am.

I guess that was the "obvious" thing? I would be pleased to hear your "less obvious" thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EagleFan
Okay, I can reveal this now. I misread my PM and thought that I lost my protection powers if I reveal but I only lose the PM ability with the seer if I reveal. That becomes useless after tonight when the wolves kill me.

I am the bodyguard and was scanned last night; they know who I am and I can now be killed because of that scan. I didn't initially say it because I thought that I lost my bodyguard powers which would pretty much make me a vanilla villager and give the wolves an incentive to keep me alive.

Since I can't protect the seer it kind of makes my role a crapshoot anyway as I wouldn't know who to protect.

I protected JAG night one and Chief Rum on night two so far. I was close to protecting Narc but decided JAG, wish I went with my first thought.
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Old 03-11-2015, 04:00 PM   #602
fontisian
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Not quite. The obvious thing is that you have more information than the rest of us in regards to Nosta's power. You outright said that scum have an additional kill to use on EF, but Jackal's description of Nosta's role doesn't go into detail on how that works (it could just be that the normal night kill can't be blocked by the other bodyguard or some other variation).

The less obvious thing was your town. New townies don't take someone attempting to lynch them that well, especially to the point of using a smiley face. It comes off as contrived.
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Old 03-11-2015, 04:00 PM   #603
cheekimonk
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Not fun to wind up font's target du jour. At least my "appointment" tonight saves me from drawn out back-and-forth.
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Old 03-11-2015, 04:09 PM   #604
fontisian
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You've got three hours. You can't address my concerns in that time?

Fair warning though, I won't be lynched toDay, and if you're not around when the wagon swings off of me it could be problematic for you.
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Old 03-11-2015, 04:11 PM   #605
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fontisian View Post
Not quite. The obvious thing is that you have more information than the rest of us in regards to Nosta's power. You outright said that scum have an additional kill to use on EF, but Jackal's description of Nosta's role doesn't go into detail on how that works (it could just be that the normal night kill can't be blocked by the other bodyguard or some other variation).

The less obvious thing was your town. New townies don't take someone attempting to lynch them that well, especially to the point of using a smiley face. It comes off as contrived.

I thought the same thing when he posted until I checked out the rules, and I don't interpret it the way you do. While it doesn't out and out say that there is a separate kill from the night kill, it does say that Dross can't be nightkilled, and that is pretty much laid out there. My thought on that was that the wolves must have another way of killing him.
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Old 03-11-2015, 04:13 PM   #606
Chief Rum
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fontisian View Post
Fair warning though, I won't be lynched toDay, and if you're not around when the wagon swings off of me it could be problematic for you.

Are you revealing?

Font, stop being coy and spit it out. If you can help us narrow the field, please do. My vote right now is on you. If you're a roled villager, I would prefer not to lynch you.
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Old 03-11-2015, 04:13 PM   #607
cheekimonk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fontisian View Post
Not quite. The obvious thing is that you have more information than the rest of us in regards to Nosta's power. You outright said that scum have an additional kill to use on EF, but Jackal's description of Nosta's role doesn't go into detail on how that works (it could just be that the normal night kill can't be blocked by the other bodyguard or some other variation).

The less obvious thing was your town. New townies don't take someone attempting to lynch them that well, especially to the point of using a smiley face. It comes off as contrived.

Huh? Nosta has a way of killing him. He has to be dead for the wolves to win. We haven't killed a wolf, so Nosta is still alive. Ergo, EF is dead. Maybe the rules of WW are more complex (?) and I'm missing something?

What does "your town" mean? I'm not taking the idea of getting lynched well, but I'm also a laid back kind of person. I can counter logic, but you'll never find me going after people (like you have, no offense). I don't even know what to tell you about a smiley face...
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Old 03-11-2015, 04:18 PM   #608
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cheekimonk View Post
Huh? Nosta has a way of killing him. He has to be dead for the wolves to win. We haven't killed a wolf, so Nosta is still alive. Ergo, EF is dead. Maybe the rules of WW are more complex (?) and I'm missing something?

I think she's talking about you saying there will be two kills tonight, one for Dross and one for the nightkill, and that in saying so, you are revealing yourself as having more knowledge (which could only mean you're a wolf).

I don't think it is that clear from the rules, but she is right that you were rather forthright about it. How did you come to the conclusion we would have two kills tonight?
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Old 03-11-2015, 04:23 PM   #609
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cheekimonk View Post
Huh? Nosta has a way of killing him. He has to be dead for the wolves to win. We haven't killed a wolf, so Nosta is still alive. Ergo, EF is dead. Maybe the rules of WW are more complex (?) and I'm missing something?

What does "your town" mean? I'm not taking the idea of getting lynched well, but I'm also a laid back kind of person. I can counter logic, but you'll never find me going after people (like you have, no offense). I don't even know what to tell you about a smiley face...
Chief got the first part.

The second part was supposed to be "your tone." Apologies.
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Old 03-11-2015, 04:28 PM   #610
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Vote Count:

3 - cheekimonk - EagleFan (516), Grover (539), fontisian (599)
2 - fontisian - path12 (588), cheekimonk (589)
1 - EagleFan - Suicane75 (526)
1 - Suicane75 - britrock88 (559)
1 - britrock88 - JAG (578)
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Old 03-11-2015, 04:35 PM   #611
cheekimonk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chief Rum View Post

I don't think it is that clear from the rules, but she is right that you were rather forthright about it. How did you come to the conclusion we would have two kills tonight?

I never said tonight. I said soon or later. The wolves have to kill EF. Yes, I did (do) assume that since his death can't be by NK, then a NK can still occur. There are other roles that set up more deaths on a night than the lynch and NK. I very well could be wrong. I guess it's quite possible that I am. This is still a critical vote...we cannot lynch another villager. I don't want to have bungled my way into a bad kill that I'll be blamed for when it's revealed I'm a villager.
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Old 03-11-2015, 04:37 PM   #612
Chief Rum
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cheekimonk View Post
I never said tonight. I said soon or later. The wolves have to kill EF. Yes, I did (do) assume that since his death can't be by NK, then a NK can still occur. There are other roles that set up more deaths on a night than the lynch and NK. I very well could be wrong. I guess it's quite possible that I am. This is still a critical vote...we cannot lynch another villager. I don't want to have bungled my way into a bad kill that I'll be blamed for when it's revealed I'm a villager.

Are you claiming to be a vanilla villager? No role?
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Old 03-11-2015, 04:37 PM   #613
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Originally Posted by fontisian View Post
<3

Aw. I forgive you for being completely wrong/possibly (but probably not?) evil.

Right back atcha for being probably (but possibly not? Nah.) evil.
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Old 03-11-2015, 04:39 PM   #614
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But why not consider that by knowing his identity, scum can just ignore Druss' usual night kill immunity? Why assume they specifically get another kill?
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Old 03-11-2015, 04:40 PM   #615
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Well, this has been an interesting day.
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Old 03-11-2015, 04:41 PM   #616
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cheekimonk View Post
I never said tonight. I said soon or later. The wolves have to kill EF. Yes, I did (do) assume that since his death can't be by NK, then a NK can still occur. There are other roles that set up more deaths on a night than the lynch and NK. I very well could be wrong. I guess it's quite possible that I am. This is still a critical vote...we cannot lynch another villager. I don't want to have bungled my way into a bad kill that I'll be blamed for when it's revealed I'm a villager.

Well, you talked ratios after tonight, which certainly implies it would all occur tonight.
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Old 03-11-2015, 04:43 PM   #617
Chief Rum
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Originally Posted by fontisian View Post
But why not consider that by knowing his identity, scum can just ignore Druss' usual night kill immunity? Why assume they specifically get another kill?

To me, there's no getting around the statement "Dross can not be nightkilled".

Combine that with "Nosta has a way of killing him", which suggests not the normal way (i.e. nightkill), and I don't think it is a tremendous leap to think that there are multiple possible deaths here.
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Old 03-11-2015, 04:44 PM   #618
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Wouldn't the wolves kill Dross the second they could? I just assumed he would die tonight. I think EF is assuming that too. What am I missing?
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Old 03-11-2015, 04:46 PM   #619
Chief Rum
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I don't think there's a way to resolve this without a lynch, though.

VOTE CHEEKIMONK
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Old 03-11-2015, 04:47 PM   #620
fontisian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chief Rum View Post
To me, there's no getting around the statement "Dross can not be nightkilled".

Combine that with "Nosta has a way of killing him", which suggests not the normal way (i.e. nightkill), and I don't think it is a tremendous leap to think that there are multiple possible deaths here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chief Rum View Post
I don't think there's a way to resolve this without a lynch, though.

VOTE CHEEKIMONK
...
What? How do these work together?
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Old 03-11-2015, 04:47 PM   #621
saldana
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OK font, that could be a nice catch and it is the closest thing to evidence we have, so for today i will go with you

vote Cheekimonk
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Old 03-11-2015, 04:49 PM   #622
Chief Rum
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fontisian View Post
...
What? How do these work together?

I am saying you have a potential point and the only way to figure out is to lynch cheekimonk. Do you disagree?
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Old 03-11-2015, 04:52 PM   #623
britrock88
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I don't want a runaway, but Font isn't getting traction, EF's claimed, I'm alone on Suicane, and I'm not voting for myself. Hrmph.
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Old 03-11-2015, 04:55 PM   #624
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Vote Count:

5 - cheekimonk - EagleFan (516), Grover (539), fontisian (599), Chief Rum (619), saldana (621)
2 - fontisian - path12 (588), cheekimonk (589)
1 - EagleFan - Suicane75 (526)
1 - Suicane75 - britrock88 (559)
1 - britrock88 - JAG (578)
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Old 03-11-2015, 04:55 PM   #625
fontisian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chief Rum View Post
I am saying you have a potential point and the only way to figure out is to lynch cheekimonk. Do you disagree?
But you just made an argument as to why my point isn't valid.
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Old 03-11-2015, 04:59 PM   #626
Chief Rum
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But you just made an argument as to why my point isn't valid.

No, I made a point that you shouldn't be so certain you are correct. But I'm not saying you're wrong either.

Plus, I do think cheeki is being a little cagey. And you're apparently someone who can stop a lynch, so my main vote target isn't available (and if you're telling the truth, I want you alive).

So cheeki is as good as anyone at this point. Might as well figure this out now, and not let it drag out for days.
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Old 03-11-2015, 05:09 PM   #627
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OK font, that could be a nice catch and it is the closest thing to evidence we have, so for today i will go with you

vote Cheekimonk

Interesting. You voted for font to be lynched yesterday, no?
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Old 03-11-2015, 05:18 PM   #628
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I would look more closely at saldana tomorrow. I have to go back over things but there were a couple subtle things that stood out from him.
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Old 03-11-2015, 05:20 PM   #629
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Quote:
Originally Posted by britrock88 View Post
Code:
Post Time Voter Vote Count Unvote Count 76 4:07 Narcizo britrock88 1 80 7:04 Zinto GoldenEagle 1 81 7:11 JAG saldana 1 82 7:45 EagleFan Zinto 1 88 8:11 timmae Grover 1 96 9:57 Grover Suicane75 1 101 10:29 Chief Rum Raven 1 108 11:43 Raven Suicane75 2 112 11:57 cheekimonk timmae 1 123 12:25 Suicane75 Grover 2 128 12:28 britrock88 JAG 1 134 12:43 path12 britrock88 2 152 14:18 britrock88 timmae 2 JAG 0 160 15:50 EagleFan Zinto 0 161 15:52 EagleFan Raven 2 163 15:57 JAG GoldenEagle 2 saldana 0 166 16:25 Narcizo GoldenEagle 3 britrock88 1 174 16:55 Chief Rum Suicane75 3 Raven 1 176 17:19 timmae JAG 1 Grover 1 177 17:23 Suicane75 GoldenEagle 4 Grover 0 180 18:06 HomerSimpson98 fontisian 1 189 18:35 JAG fontisian 2 GoldenEagle 3 190 18:35 GoldenEagle Suicane75 4 192 18:42 Raven fontisian 3 Suicane75 3 197 18:58 cheekimonk britrock88 2 timmae 1 204 19:11 path12 GoldenEagle 4 britrock88 1 207 19:13 EagleFan GoldenEagle 5 Raven 0 214 19:34 Grover fontisian 4 Suicane75 2 216 20:02 JAG Suicane75 3 fontisian 3 223 20:25 GoldenEagle fontisian 4 Suicane75 2 237 20:49 EagleFan Raven 1 GoldenEagle 4 239 21:22 cheekimonk Raven 2 britrock88 0 240 21:37 timmae GoldenEagle 5 JAG 0 242 21:48 EagleFan fontisian 5 Raven 1 244 21:54 fontisian GoldenEagle 6 Raven 1

Updated with vote counts.

EF, can I ask if you have certain proof or just a hunch here? If you look at the D1 movement the last couple hours by cheek, it doesn't look very wolf-like to me.
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Old 03-11-2015, 05:31 PM   #630
cheekimonk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chief Rum View Post
Are you claiming to be a vanilla villager? No role?

I'm not claiming any role. There's no reason to out myself with only Druss being known, and after the first 2 nights ANY villager is critical...role or not. It's going to hurt the village to lose me and I can say that based on straight logic without an emotional appeal to everyone to trust me that I'm EXTRA valuable. That would reek of desperation to me, and would get the wolves after me in any case.
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Old 03-11-2015, 05:34 PM   #631
cheekimonk
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Well, you talked ratios after tonight, which certainly implies it would all occur tonight.

No, I talked ratios. Period. If I'm lynched and I'm right that a NK can still happen when Druss is killed, then that's -3 villagers now or later. I didn't think I had to point out that the ratios are going to look even worse later on.

I do assume the wolves will kill Druss ASAP, but the rules don't say how that works or when. As I said, soon or later EF is dead.
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Old 03-11-2015, 05:38 PM   #632
HomerSimpson98
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I honestly dont see what cheeki has done to warrant the runaway. Everything he said could easily be deduced from the first page of this thread. Yeah the stupid smile emoticon was not ideal but i took it as a joke (from someone who has told many stupid jokes).
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Old 03-11-2015, 05:39 PM   #633
cheekimonk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fontisian View Post
But why not consider that by knowing his identity, scum can just ignore Druss' usual night kill immunity? Why assume they specifically get another kill?

Because the rule goes at length to say Nosta has "a way of killing him." Putting that right against "cannot be NK'd" says to me that "way" is something other than NK.
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Old 03-11-2015, 05:40 PM   #634
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Ended up doing roughly 350 miles of driving today for work... catching up on the thread!
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Old 03-11-2015, 05:43 PM   #635
cheekimonk
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I honestly dont see what cheeki has done to warrant the runaway. Everything he said could easily be deduced from the first page of this thread. Yeah the stupid smile emoticon was not ideal but i took it as a joke (from someone who has told many stupid jokes).

Hey!
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Old 03-11-2015, 05:44 PM   #636
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lol - I meant jokes that didnt land quite as well as they do in your head. I'm the king of those.
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Old 03-11-2015, 05:45 PM   #637
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and I still feel very confident voting for cheeki.

I think Suicane and britrock definitely deserve long hard looks as well.
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Old 03-11-2015, 05:48 PM   #638
cheekimonk
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lol - I meant jokes that didnt land quite as well as they do in your head. I'm the king of those.

Lol! There's a lot of things not landing today quite as well as they are in my head...
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Old 03-11-2015, 05:56 PM   #639
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I dunno. I'd rather see one of font/JAG/Brit but those don't seem to be getting traction.
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Old 03-11-2015, 06:01 PM   #640
cheekimonk
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Can I point out in my defense that EF got this roll on me started (maybe I haven't helped my case with my answers but this is my first time on the spot in this game) and I have yet to get a response to this earlier exchange:

Quote:
Originally Posted by EagleFan View Post
Take cheek out, then worry about the other wolves. The more I see the more I am convinced that he is a wolf.

Is there any reasoning I can address? All I see is:

Quote:
Originally Posted by EagleFan
vote cheekimonk

Not changing that vote today.

I feel like I'm throwing water on a grease fire without knowing any better, but why was this grease fire started? I really do NOT want to leave you guys thinking I'm a terrible player when you lynch another villager not because of any logical reason but because of my awkward answers.
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Old 03-11-2015, 06:05 PM   #641
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EF, can I ask if you have certain proof or just a hunch here? If you look at the D1 movement the last couple hours by cheek, it doesn't look very wolf-like to me.

Being as objective as I can, I don't think my D2 pattern was very wolf-like either...at least as I judge it. There are definitely patterns that are more wolf-like, to me, which goes back to why this was started on me in the first place.
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Old 03-11-2015, 06:08 PM   #642
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Being as objective as I can, I don't think my D2 pattern was very wolf-like either...at least as I judge it. There are definitely patterns that are more wolf-like, to me, which goes back to why this was started on me in the first place.

Are there any patterns in particular you want to point out?
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Old 03-11-2015, 06:12 PM   #643
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I dunno. I'd rather see one of font/JAG/Brit but those don't seem to be getting traction.

Pat, can I ask who's in the group you trust the most?
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Old 03-11-2015, 06:13 PM   #644
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I honestly dont see what cheeki has done to warrant the runaway. Everything he said could easily be deduced from the first page of this thread. Yeah the stupid smile emoticon was not ideal but i took it as a joke (from someone who has told many stupid jokes).

Well then, who do you like? Who do you distrust? I see two votes and no movement. Would love to hear some thoughts on people.
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Old 03-11-2015, 06:17 PM   #645
saldana
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Bethlehem, Pa
Quote:
Originally Posted by HomerSimpson98 View Post
Interesting. You voted for font to be lynched yesterday, no?

i did, and i was going to vote her again today, but she seems to have actually caught something that makes sense...everything else is just a hunch...she tagged onto an actual fact, so i will go with her today, and if Cheekimonk comes up village, i will vote her at 1001 tonight.
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Old 03-11-2015, 06:20 PM   #646
HomerSimpson98
High School Varsity
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Cowtown, TX
I feel that font has taken a fairly insignificant post, one that I think can be deduced from the character list and roles, and blown it up to be something it isnt.
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Old 03-11-2015, 06:21 PM   #647
HomerSimpson98
High School Varsity
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Cowtown, TX
Quote:
Originally Posted by cheekimonk View Post
It's going to hurt the village to lose me and I can say that based on straight logic without an emotional appeal to everyone to trust me that I'm EXTRA valuable. That would reek of desperation to me, and would get the wolves after me in any case.

Did you mean to say "can" or "cant"??
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Old 03-11-2015, 06:22 PM   #648
path12
Coordinator
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Seattle, WA
Quote:
Originally Posted by britrock88 View Post
Pat, can I ask who's in the group you trust the most?

Well, it's pretty small which is frustrating.

I believe EF because of no counter claim -- though if you are Druss would you counter? I think with the count getting closer and no seer hits you probably would.

I know my alignment.

I have not seen anything that has pinged me from Chief (except the vet angle), Zinto (except how quiet he is), and saldana (who I remember usually playing his cards close to the vest).

I think Suicane is a confused new player.

I've given Homer & cheekimonk newbie benefit but am looking harder now.

I was suspicious of Grover and am not so much right now but cannot for the life of me figure out why.

And you know that I'm pinged hard by you, font & JAG currently. I probably feel best about JAG out of that group but he is a better player than I am so he may just be playing me.

Did I miss anyone?
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Old 03-11-2015, 06:26 PM   #649
cheekimonk
High School Varsity
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Nashville
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chief Rum View Post
Are there any patterns in particular you want to point out?

Suicane, for one. He started the momentum for the bad lynch on D1, then helped along the momentum on D2's bad lynch before ditching for EF...when EF was not remotely in danger. Convenient since I called him out for stoking the fire for GE on D1.

font, in addition to being oddly aggressive here, tried to start a pile-on on D1 before jumping at the last minute to GE. Who did he try to start the run on? Why, none other than Raven...D2's erroneous lynching and one he also piled on immediately when it started along with...

Zinto. Who, I've pointed out, has not cast a single vote for someone not lynched (all bad for us). He's been quiet, too, and vets have pointed out that it's quieter than usual.
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Old 03-11-2015, 06:27 PM   #650
britrock88
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: WI via ND via NC
So I'm just going to assume for the sake of this exercise that we lynch Cheekimonk and that he's a wolf. What does that tell us?

- his D1 LL avoidance points indirectly to Suicane and Font
- his D2 switch from Sui to Grover points toward Suicane and away from Grover
- posting/reads:
----- justifies early D2 Sui vote by Sui bandwagoning onto GE D1; switches to Grover when Sui points out it was a self-defense vote
----- (post 463, EF points out how it feels orchestrated)
----- defends himself when Grover asks pointed questions
----- makes a mechanical inference about Druss/Nosta, catches heat from Font for it

...I dunno. Not that I get any kind of good feeling, but this seems like it could very well be new player feeling out the WW atmosphere. I'd still rather head toward Suicane first, I think. But I'll reread him to see what there is pointing in that direction beyond his presence near the LL for the last 2 days.
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