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Old 06-29-2004, 12:30 PM   #51
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Old 06-29-2004, 12:30 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by Suicane75

I a little bit surprised by the reaction here, if the situation were reversed i'm pretty sure at least 80% of the board would be slamming the male teacher.

yes, we all readily admit that. double-standard.


And boy... how much will this kid hate mom for getting the law involved here?
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Old 06-29-2004, 12:44 PM   #53
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I think this is begging for a caption.....
How about "the red x marks the spot"?
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Old 06-29-2004, 12:47 PM   #54
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I think this is begging for a caption.....


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Old 06-29-2004, 12:51 PM   #55
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it showed up fine on my computer.... oh well
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Old 06-29-2004, 01:00 PM   #56
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it showed up fine on my computer.... oh well

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Old 06-29-2004, 01:32 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by SkyDog
2. If the story was reversed (23-year-old guy, 14-year-old girl), we'd be ready to throw him in prison for the rest of his life, throw away the key, and *hoping* that his fellow inmates raped him unmercifully.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LloydLungs
Yeah, but males and females are different, as are their approaches to sex. It's just a fact of life. Not saying she isn't guilty of a crime and shouldn't be imprisoned (she is and should) but come on... there's a double standard for a reason. Hubba hubba.

This is by far the most interesting part about this case, as it was in the Mary K. LeTourneau case here in the Seattle area a few years back. The LeTourneau case was even more extreme, as the boy was (I believe) 12 when the affair started and she was mid-thirties, and she went on to have 2 children with him from their repeated affairs.

Similar to this case, LeTourneau was an attractive woman and there were the predictable "hubba-hubbas" from most of the men discussing the case. Most women didn't see it the same way - they pointed out that the reverse situation would've been villified. A local columnist in fact went on a bit of a crusade combating the popular opinion many men had that this kid was lucky to have been deflowered by a hot teacher, and that in fact the boy had been seriously harmed psychologically from the whole ordeal.

In that case, I tend to agree given the age of the boy. In this case, this teacher is only 23 and the kid is 14. Now, 12 to 14 doesn't sound like that much but I think most of us realize a lot can change in that amount of time. And at 23, this teacher wasn't necessarily that much more mature than the kid.

This was a much different situation than the LeTourneau case so far as I can tell, i.e. for this teacher the affair was more about the thrill of the taboo, whereas with the LeTourneau case she was seriously disturbed mentally and wanted to marry this kid and of course had 2 of his babies.

On a more fundamental note, is it correct to believe in the double-standard view? Would it be any different if this were a 14 year old girl and a 23 year old male teacher? If so, why? Can we distill it down to an assumption that sex means different things to boys than it does to girls, and that boys have a more casual attitude about it so the potential harm done is less than with girls?

Discuss...
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Old 06-29-2004, 01:38 PM   #58
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I heard this story this morning and was anxiously awaiting to get to the FOFC take. It's been pretty much what I expected. I agree with Skydog and his S.W.M.B.O that this teacher is more likely to be found innocent because she is attractive. Hopefully, I'm wrong (assuming she is guilty.)
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Old 06-29-2004, 01:40 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by dawgfan
Can we distill it down to an assumption that sex means different things to boys than it does to girls, and that boys have a more casual attitude about it so the potential harm done is less than with girls?

Discuss...

Whether it's B.S. or not, our culture tends to view males as more predatory, and women more helpless/submissive. The basic assumption in both cases then becomes:

The guy wanted it and got it ("and is lucky as hell!" yells the male chorus)
The girl was taken advantage of by the male teacher.

Honestly, I think it's generally fairly easy to hear the details of a case and discern the absolute willingness (and comprehension of their actions) of those involved.
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Old 06-29-2004, 01:44 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27
I heard this story this morning and was anxiously awaiting to get to the FOFC take. It's been pretty much what I expected. I agree with Skydog and his S.W.M.B.O that this teacher is more likely to be found innocent because she is attractive. Hopefully, I'm wrong (assuming she is guilty.)

Based on what I read how is it possible to find her innocent?

Maybe there is a different public take that borders on just comedy but courts don't really see a difference.
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Old 06-29-2004, 01:47 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by cthomer5000
Whether it's B.S. or not, our culture tends to view males as more predatory, and women more helpless/submissive. The basic assumption in both cases then becomes:

The guy wanted it and got it ("and is lucky as hell!" yells the male chorus)
The girl was taken advantage of by the male teacher.

Honestly, I think it's generally fairly easy to hear the details of a case and discern the absolute willingness (and comprehension of their actions) of those involved.
But if he's underaged, it shouldn't matter if he "wanted it" or not. Of course he wanted it! We all wanted it at that age. Legally, though, he was incapable of consenting.

Now, all of the above being said, from my experience with teenagers and young adult volunteers, it is completely possible that while legally she is 100% responsible, that she is no more emotionally mature than he is. From everything I've observed and also read from developmental experts, emotional adulthood is happening later and later. I read fairly recently that the average age of true emotional adulthood may be as high as 25 these days.
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Old 06-29-2004, 01:50 PM   #62
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But if he's underaged, it shouldn't matter if he "wanted it" or not. Of course he wanted it! We all wanted it at that age. Legally, though, he was incapable of consenting.

Now, all of the above being said, from my experience with teenagers and young adult volunteers, it is completely possible that while legally she is 100% responsible, that she is no more emotionally mature than he is. From everything I've observed and also read from developmental experts, emotional adulthood is happening later and later. I read fairly recently that the average age of true emotional adulthood may be as high as 25 these days.

I think it's fairly obvious by what we know that she is not quite a well adjusted, mature person.

That being said there are many not adjusted, immature 20's that don't have sex in cars with 14 yr olds while a cousin drives.
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Old 06-29-2004, 01:52 PM   #63
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But if he's underaged, it shouldn't matter if he "wanted it" or not. Of course he wanted it! We all wanted it at that age. Legally, though, he was incapable of consenting.

I agree about the legality of the issue. What's being discussed though is the level of outrage, or lack thereof depending on whether the minor is a boy or a girl. No doubt this kid 'wanted it'. What if it were the reverse, and it were a 14 year old girl with a 23 year old male teacher. Let's say the police report makes it pretty clear the girl 'wanted it'. Wouldn't there still be a much greater hullaballoo about how the girl was 'taken advantage of' and 'didn't know what she was doing'?
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Old 06-29-2004, 01:55 PM   #64
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I agree about the legality of the issue. What's being discussed though is the level of outrage, or lack thereof depending on whether the minor is a boy or a girl. No doubt this kid 'wanted it'. What if it were the reverse, and it were a 14 year old girl with a 23 year old male teacher. Let's say the police report makes it pretty clear the girl 'wanted it'. Wouldn't there still be a much greater hullaballoo about how the girl was 'taken advantage of' and 'didn't know what she was doing'?

Not necessarily. Perhaps in a joking way but for rational thinkers I think you view at least the perpetrator similarly.
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Old 06-29-2004, 02:03 PM   #65
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Most females, especially at 14, want feelings and affection to go along with sex. A 23-year-old man who talks a 14-year-old girl into sex generally needs to trick her into thinking he has feelings for her. This is very easy for a guy to do with a teenage girl who is vulnerable and needy and troubled enough to consider sleeping with a 23-year-old man. Predatory as hell.

With a male, no feelings necessary. See pretty girl, hump pretty girl. No emotional scars. Heck, I think the only real harm this kid will have is due to the national exposure aspect, and the fact that millions of guys now think he's an idiot for not keeping this secret. The actual sex with the hot 23-year-old blonde probably just gave him a self-esteem boost.

The woman, though, is deeply, deeply disturbed. If you're 23 and immature you're more likely to target much older guys than 14 yr old boys -- this would go way beyond immaturity.
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Old 06-29-2004, 02:03 PM   #66
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Maybe the point is that we all precisely DID want it at that age. Ask me today, as a 27 year old if I would tap her knowing she had a husband? Of course not, no matter how egregiously attractive she is. But at 14? Because we all wanted it at 14, maybe that proves that it was wrong of her, since the child is not developed enough to make that sort of decision.

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Old 06-29-2004, 02:08 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by LloydLungs
Most females, especially at 14, want feelings and affection to go along with sex. A 23-year-old man who talks a 14-year-old girl into sex generally needs to trick her into thinking he has feelings for her. This is very easy for a guy to do with a teenage girl who is vulnerable and needy and troubled enough to consider sleeping with a 23-year-old man. Predatory as hell.

With a male, no feelings necessary. See pretty girl, hump pretty girl. No emotional scars. Heck, I think the only real harm this kid will have is due to the national exposure aspect, and the fact that millions of guys now think he's an idiot for not keeping this secret. The actual sex with the hot 23-year-old blonde probably just gave him a self-esteem boost.

The woman, though, is deeply, deeply disturbed. If you're 23 and immature you're more likely to target much older guys than 14 yr old boys -- this would go way beyond immaturity.

Very good points, and I agree with you. Thing is, there will be women out there, especially mothers of young teenage boys, that will disagree with you and say this is a B.S. double-standard.

I also think that there are some exceptions to the above generalities that make these assumptions a bit risky - there are almost certainly some young girls out there just looking for some action with no real emotional component necessary, and there are almost certainly some sensitive young boys out there that place deep emotional attachment to sex.
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Old 06-29-2004, 02:10 PM   #68
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I don't understand the hubbub.

She is a criminal, she should go to jail.

But she's still hot.
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Old 06-29-2004, 02:15 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by LloydLungs
Most females, especially at 14, want feelings and affection to go along with sex. A 23-year-old man who talks a 14-year-old girl into sex generally needs to trick her into thinking he has feelings for her. This is very easy for a guy to do with a teenage girl who is vulnerable and needy and troubled enough to consider sleeping with a 23-year-old man. Predatory as hell.

With a male, no feelings necessary. See pretty girl, hump pretty girl. No emotional scars. Heck, I think the only real harm this kid will have is due to the national exposure aspect, and the fact that millions of guys now think he's an idiot for not keeping this secret. The actual sex with the hot 23-year-old blonde probably just gave him a self-esteem boost.

The woman, though, is deeply, deeply disturbed. If you're 23 and immature you're more likely to target much older guys than 14 yr old boys -- this would go way beyond immaturity.

I really disagree with an assumption of no damage to young boys. Children are children, boy or girl and to assume somehow a boy can "handle" this as opposed to a girl is just not so.

It's cool from the outside to say this kid is a stud but this is the type of self-esteem boost that may not be such a good thing.
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Old 06-29-2004, 02:18 PM   #70
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I also think that there are some exceptions to the above generalities that make these assumptions a bit risky - there are almost certainly some young girls out there just looking for some action with no real emotional component necessary, and there are almost certainly some sensitive young boys out there that place deep emotional attachment to sex.

I'm sure there are some young teenage girls just looking for no-strings sex, but I would suggest that most of those girls have some pretty deep-rooted problems. Perfectly well-adjusted women can have "no-strings sex" phases, but if that's happening before college I hear alarm bells going off.
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Old 06-29-2004, 02:24 PM   #71
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I'm sure there are some young teenage girls just looking for no-strings sex, but I would suggest that most of those girls have some pretty deep-rooted problems. Perfectly well-adjusted women can have "no-strings sex" phases, but if that's happening before college I hear alarm bells going off.

So why do young teenage boys just looking for no-strings sex not have some pretty deep-rooted problems? Is it because you believe in the sexual stereotypes?
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Old 06-29-2004, 02:28 PM   #72
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I'm sure there are some young teenage girls just looking for no-strings sex, but I would suggest that most of those girls have some pretty deep-rooted problems. Perfectly well-adjusted women can have "no-strings sex" phases, but if that's happening before college I hear alarm bells going off.

I know I shouldn't say anything about this topic but I'll bite. Because a girl has deep rooted problems they turn in to sex fiends but a well adjusted chick shouldn't want that? Have you seen church girls lately they are about as normal as they get and they are freaks.

I bet anything the same ones who say hurray for this are they same ones who would be like cut his balls off if roles were reversed.
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Old 06-29-2004, 02:31 PM   #73
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Upon further review...........



Not a very flattering picture of the hottie.
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Old 06-29-2004, 02:32 PM   #74
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So why do young teenage boys just looking for no-strings sex not have some pretty deep-rooted problems? Is it because you believe in the sexual stereotypes?

Don't you suppose that cultural expectations for boys and girls regarding sex affect this?
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Old 06-29-2004, 02:34 PM   #75
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Don't you suppose that cultural expectations for boys and girls regarding sex affect this?

In the past perhaps that would be true, but the cultural expectations of women these days are not chastity until marriage, but they are just as sexually liberated as men are. There are plenty of women who want no-strings sex and this is not considered a *gasp* thing (see 'Sex & the City' for one). Therefore I don't think the teenage girls today who want the no-strings sex that teenage guys want have deep rooted problems at all!
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Old 06-29-2004, 02:40 PM   #76
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In the past perhaps that would be true, but the cultural expectations of women these days are not chastity until marriage, but they are just as sexually liberated as men are. There are plenty of women who want no-strings sex and this is not considered a *gasp* thing (see 'Sex & the City' for one). Therefore I don't think the teenage girls today who want the no-strings sex that teenage guys want have deep rooted problems at all!

That is a pretty idealistic view. I think society no longer takes a dim view of capable, well adjusted adult women (in this case meaning around 25 or older) having sex lives despite not being married, I don't think society is anywhere nearly as accepting of girls aged (dear God, I cannot imagine how young) to early 20s expressing themselves sexually. You will still hear them referred to as sluts, etc. The gap between cultural expectations for sexuality in males and females may have narrowed in the past X years, but it is far from closed, and differences still exist in those expectations.
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Old 06-29-2004, 02:44 PM   #77
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don't think society is anywhere nearly as accepting of girls aged (dear God, I cannot imagine how young) to early 20s expressing themselves sexually. You will still hear them referred to as sluts, etc.

And yet more and more 'well-adjusted' women have sex when they are 15, 14, etc. To say they are all emotionally messed up is utterly ridiculous. That isn't even talking if those 'cultural differences' are right or not.
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Old 06-29-2004, 02:47 PM   #78
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So why do young teenage boys just looking for no-strings sex not have some pretty deep-rooted problems? Is it because you believe in the sexual stereotypes?

With a few exceptions, yeah, very much so.
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Old 06-29-2004, 02:49 PM   #79
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LOL yeah the mug shot's not great, but you have to do some mug shot math here. By my estimation the average person is 74.5% less good looking in a mug shot than in real life. The fact that this woman avoids being outright hideous in the mug shot is a good sign for her.
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Old 06-29-2004, 02:53 PM   #80
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LOL yeah the mug shot's not great, but you have to do some mug shot math here. By my estimation the average person is 74.5% less good looking in a mug shot than in real life. The fact that this woman avoids being outright hideous in the mug shot is a good sign for her.

True. She's definitely not 'ugly' in the mugshot.
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Old 06-29-2004, 02:55 PM   #81
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True. She's definitely not 'ugly' in the mugshot.

but just to clarify, you wouldn't hit it?
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Old 06-29-2004, 03:01 PM   #82
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but just to clarify, you wouldn't hit it?

I thought I made it clear, I would most certainly hit it.
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Old 06-29-2004, 03:02 PM   #83
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I thought I made it clear, I would most certainly hit it.

I was appealing to your Elitist side
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Old 06-29-2004, 03:07 PM   #84
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Hell, I'd hit it if she looked 75% worse than her mug shot.
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Old 06-29-2004, 03:10 PM   #85
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I was appealing to your Elitist side
I'm amongst the proles today. This thread has captured the worst in me for sure.

edited to retain some elite snobbery.
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This is like watching a car wreck. But one where, every so often, someone walks over and punches the driver in the face as he struggles to free himself from the wreckage.

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Old 06-29-2004, 03:10 PM   #86
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Hell, I'd hit it if she looked 75% worse than her mug shot.

I heard she has fabulous armpits
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Old 06-29-2004, 03:11 PM   #87
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Sad Sad you would have sex with a child molester... I guess you guys would want him too... also

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Old 06-29-2004, 03:12 PM   #88
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yes, because we're clearly attracted to her child molestation skills, not her looks.
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Old 06-29-2004, 03:14 PM   #89
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But you still would have sex with a sex offender.
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Old 06-29-2004, 03:20 PM   #90
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"Oh wow, man !"
"Wait a second man. Whaddaya think the teacher's gonna look like this year ?"
"My butt, man !"
T-T-Teacher stop that screaming, teacher don't you see ?
Don't wanna be no uptown fool.
Maybe I should go to hell, but I'm doin' well,
teacher needs to see me after school.
Chorus:
I think of all the education that I missed.
But then my homework was never quite like this.
Got it bad, got it bad, got it bad,
I'm hot for teacher.
I got it bad, so bad,
I'm hot for teacher.
spoken:
"Hey, I heard you missed us, we're back !"
"I brought my pencil"
"Gimme something to write on, man"
I heard about your lessons, but lessons are so cold.
I know about this school.
Little girl from cherry lane, how did you get so bold ?
How did you know that golden rule ?
chorus
(guitar solo)
"Oh man, I think the clock is slow"
"I don't feel tardy"
"Class dismissed"
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Old 06-29-2004, 03:20 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by Noop
But you still would have sex with a sex offender.

If i met her in a bar and didnt know who she was, i would bang her in a minute.
If i met her in a bar and did know who she was i would give it some thought, then Id probably bang her. Happy?
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Old 06-29-2004, 03:26 PM   #92
Noop
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suicane75
If i met her in a bar and didnt know who she was, i would bang her in a minute.
If i met her in a bar and did know who she was i would give it some thought, then Id probably bang her. Happy?

Actually I could less... just a bunch of sideways talkers on this board. For those who claim some sort of moral whatever over everyone they would hump a sex offender without thinking. You all might as well go find a Russian porn site and go join them all in hell and jail. I have counted to three and said my peace.
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Old 06-29-2004, 03:27 PM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noop
Actually I could less... just a bunch of sideways talkers on this board. For those who claim some sort of moral whatever over everyone they would hump a sex offender without thinking. You all might as well go find a Russian porn site and go join them all in hell and jail. I have counted to three and said my peace.

The idealist and elitist will be beaten out of you. Like the rest of us you will enjoy hitting pretty much anything. Now step into this device like Total Recall and let us implant some memories.
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Last edited by rkmsuf : 06-29-2004 at 03:29 PM.
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Old 06-29-2004, 03:28 PM   #94
Suicane75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noop
Actually I could less... just a bunch of sideways talkers on this board. For those who claim some sort of moral whatever over everyone they would hump a sex offender without thinking. You all might as well go find a Russian porn site and go join them all in hell and jail. I have counted to three and said my peace.

someone has sand in his vagina.
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Old 06-29-2004, 03:32 PM   #95
Noop
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suicane75
someone has sand in his vagina.

Personally attacks already? Sorry budI don't have a pussy.

rkmsuf - Beaten out of me? No no the future needs me. I am the one "Noop" we must leave the Matrix
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Old 06-29-2004, 03:33 PM   #96
bbor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noop
Actually I could less... just a bunch of sideways talkers on this board. For those who claim some sort of moral whatever over everyone they would hump a sex offender without thinking. You all might as well go find a Russian porn site and go join them all in hell and jail. I have counted to three and said my peace.


ALLEGED sex offender.
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Now that I've cracked and made that admission, I wonder if I'm only a couple of steps away from wanting to tongue-kiss Jaromir Jagr and give Bobby Clarke a blowjob.
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Old 06-29-2004, 03:34 PM   #97
rkmsuf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noop
Personally attacks already? Sorry budI don't have a pussy.

rkmsuf - Beaten out of me? No no the future needs me. I am the one "Noop" we must leave the Matrix

Noop spelled backwards is poon. I do think you'd hit more than you are letting on.
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Old 06-29-2004, 03:34 PM   #98
cthomer5000
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c'mon. you know you'd hit it.
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This is like watching a car wreck. But one where, every so often, someone walks over and punches the driver in the face as he struggles to free himself from the wreckage.
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Old 06-29-2004, 03:36 PM   #99
cthomer5000
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Originally Posted by bbor
ALLEGED sex offender.

yes. note that Noop is fine with slamming the jail door shut on someone who's barely even been charged at this point.

so much for his moral (fucking) elitism.
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This is like watching a car wreck. But one where, every so often, someone walks over and punches the driver in the face as he struggles to free himself from the wreckage.
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Old 06-29-2004, 03:36 PM   #100
hhiipp
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rkmsuf
Noop spelled backwards is poon. I do think you'd hit more than you are letting on.


I was going to bring that up.. but I didn't at the risk of sounding juvenile (would hate to label myself as I'm so new to the board)
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