Front Office Football Central  

Go Back   Front Office Football Central > Main Forums > Off Topic
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read Statistics

View Poll Results: Would you play a text based boxing sim that centers around one boxer.
Yes, that's what I've been looking wanting for years. 24 42.11%
No, no interest in something like that. 14 24.56%
Maybe 16 28.07%
The Trout option 3 5.26%
Voters: 57. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 07-21-2007, 06:04 PM   #1
A-Husker-4-Life
College Prospect
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Nebraska
Question Text Based Boxing Sims

I've been searching around for some text based boxing sim's and have yet to find one that centers around just one boxer.

My question is would you play a single player boxing sim with RPG elements, where you control one boxer throughout their career?
__________________
JJ Smitty Owner of the TheC.F.L. - Come by and check us out.


Last edited by A-Husker-4-Life : 07-21-2007 at 06:08 PM.
A-Husker-4-Life is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2007, 06:19 PM   #2
Axxon
Pro Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Would I play a new version of ABC Wide World of Sports Boxing?

In a heartbeat. I really loved that game even though it's not text based ( but it has rpg elements though ) for some reason I kept coming back and playing again and again and again etc.

Now, it was not without many flaws but the appeal of the game still stood out for me.
__________________
There are no houris, alas, in our heaven.

Last edited by Axxon : 07-21-2007 at 06:24 PM.
Axxon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2007, 09:23 PM   #3
A-Husker-4-Life
College Prospect
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Nebraska
Ahh man I love that game, I remember playing that for hours on my 486..
__________________
JJ Smitty Owner of the TheC.F.L. - Come by and check us out.
A-Husker-4-Life is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2007, 09:32 PM   #4
bosshogg23
College Benchwarmer
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Philly
Quote:
Originally Posted by A-Husker-4-Life View Post
Ahh man I love that game, I remember starting my 486, it took hours....just to play

Fixed that for ya
bosshogg23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2007, 01:35 AM   #5
BYU 14
Coordinator
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: The scorched Desert
TBCB 3 will finally fill this void when released later in the year. It already has a solid sim engine and with the team in place fro development and testing it should be a solid product.
BYU 14 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2007, 09:05 AM   #6
PilotMan
Head Coach
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Seven miles up
I have always been a boxing sim nut, ABCWWB saw loads of playing time on my computer. I would certainly be in the market for this type of game. I like the team that is working on the next TBCB game so I have very high hopes for it.
__________________
He's just like if Snow White was competitive, horny, and capable of beating the shit out of anyone that called her Pops.

Like Steam?
Join the FOFC Steam group here: http://steamcommunity.com/groups/FOFConSteam



PilotMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2007, 12:00 PM   #7
Fighter of Foo
College Prospect
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Boston, MA
I think I stll have a copy of this one on my old computer. Needed to be cleaned up a bit, but very, very good.

http://www.sportplanet.com/features/reviews/wcbm/
Fighter of Foo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2007, 12:15 PM   #8
Icy
Pro Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Toledo - Spain
Yes i would buy it for sure!

Have been waiting for a good bosing game with career mode since wcbm.
__________________

Icy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2007, 04:00 AM   #9
Dutch
"Dutch"
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Tampa, FL
Quote:
Originally Posted by Icy View Post
Yes i would buy it for sure!

Have been waiting for a good bosing game with career mode since wcbm.

I thought you were married?
Dutch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2007, 06:52 AM   #10
Bee
Pro Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Fairfax, VA
I would prefer managing a stable of fighters and not just one single guy, but this would definitely be an improvement over what's available now.
Bee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2022, 07:05 PM   #11
PilotMan
Head Coach
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Seven miles up
So here's something for people who might be interested in a boxing management sim, and I know that it's been brought up before, and there's a game that is like the only one that I used for Punishment Inc a long time ago, but I just found a new one today has hooked me, and it's got a lot, lot of the features that we've been waiting for.

I downloaded another a couple weeks ago, and I finally loaded it up today, and I have no killed the battery on my phone twice today. It's kept me busy and it's incredible, and it's only about $6 on iOS and Droid, with a PC version coming this year.

LEATHER - The Serious Boxing Fan’s Game of Choice

I know there will be some people here to will love to give this a go.
__________________
He's just like if Snow White was competitive, horny, and capable of beating the shit out of anyone that called her Pops.

Like Steam?
Join the FOFC Steam group here: http://steamcommunity.com/groups/FOFConSteam



PilotMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2022, 08:10 PM   #12
QuikSand
lolzcat
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Annapolis, Md
bump, moved to main OT forum section
QuikSand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2022, 09:22 PM   #13
PilotMan
Head Coach
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Seven miles up
Thanks Quik...

I bumped this to share a new game I found just above.
__________________
He's just like if Snow White was competitive, horny, and capable of beating the shit out of anyone that called her Pops.

Like Steam?
Join the FOFC Steam group here: http://steamcommunity.com/groups/FOFConSteam



PilotMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2022, 10:57 PM   #14
GrantDawg
World Champion Mis-speller
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Covington, Ga.
I am an hour and half in and totally hooked. I have no idea what I am doing. Should you just start with a single boxer, or sign a few immediately? Should you get a full staff at first or wait till you hqve better income? I am so lost.

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk

Last edited by GrantDawg : 01-29-2022 at 10:57 PM.
GrantDawg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2022, 11:26 PM   #15
PilotMan
Head Coach
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Seven miles up
I have 3 and I'm struggling to build them up to a high enough ranking to start making some money from them. It's been an all day endeavor.
__________________
He's just like if Snow White was competitive, horny, and capable of beating the shit out of anyone that called her Pops.

Like Steam?
Join the FOFC Steam group here: http://steamcommunity.com/groups/FOFConSteam



PilotMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2022, 01:57 AM   #16
cubboyroy1826
College Benchwarmer
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
You should try out Legends of Boxing over at asggames.com. You can play the game with real fighters or bring up a stable of fictional fighter. Tons of fun so far.
cubboyroy1826 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2022, 08:31 AM   #17
GrantDawg
World Champion Mis-speller
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Covington, Ga.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cubboyroy1826 View Post
You should try out Legends of Boxing over at asggames.com. You can play the game with real fighters or bring up a stable of fictional fighter. Tons of fun so far.
How is the career on it? Is it too simple, or is it fun?
GrantDawg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2022, 08:37 AM   #18
GrantDawg
World Champion Mis-speller
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Covington, Ga.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PilotMan View Post
I have 3 and I'm struggling to build them up to a high enough ranking to start making some money from them. It's been an all day endeavor.
I got super lucky on my second start. I got a 18 year old Strawweight out of Vietnam. He was 50+ in all but 4 stats, with a 80+ jab and a 70+ cross. He was immediately ranked 16 in the world, with his first purse at 7,500. Felt like it was worth buying staff, but I am two fights in and already in the red. I am kicking myself because it was such a good fighter to start and I am going to go bust.
GrantDawg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2022, 10:46 AM   #19
SlyBelle1
High School Varsity
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Boxing Club Manager just released into early access for the PC. Little rough right now in execution, but might be what some folks are looking for.

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1..._Club_Manager/

Last edited by SlyBelle1 : 01-30-2022 at 10:47 AM.
SlyBelle1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2022, 04:42 PM   #20
SegRat
High School Varsity
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Oshkosh, WI
Leather is a blast. Haven’t played any game on my phone in awhile. I will be playing this one.
__________________
USFL: Charlotte Fightn' Squirrels
SegRat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2022, 11:24 PM   #21
cubboyroy1826
College Benchwarmer
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrantDawg View Post
How is the career on it? Is it too simple, or is it fun?

It's pretty fun, not overly detailed but there are decisions to be made like who your fighter will fight in his next match, strategy during the fight, and development decisions to make. I believe there is a demo for you to give it a try.
cubboyroy1826 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2022, 08:32 AM   #22
Fidatelo
Pro Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Winnipeg, MB
Tried Leather yesterday after reading these posts, what fun! I'm struggling to figure out the financial side as well. Started with a middleweight and a coach, then added a Light Heavyweight into the mix. Both started at the bottom of their divisions and have risen into the top 20 after about 2 years in-game time. But I'm bleeding cash each month, going from my initial 250k balance down to around 75k right now with expenses of 5k/mth. Purses are getting a little larger, but so is the time between bouts. Not sure how I'm going to get more than another 18 months or so out of this without going bust unless one of them makes a massive leap.
__________________
"Breakfast? Breakfast schmekfast, look at the score for God's sake. It's only the second period and I'm winning 12-2. Breakfasts come and go, Rene, but Hartford, the Whale, they only beat Vancouver maybe once or twice in a lifetime."
Fidatelo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2022, 08:49 AM   #23
GrantDawg
World Champion Mis-speller
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Covington, Ga.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fidatelo View Post
Tried Leather yesterday after reading these posts, what fun! I'm struggling to figure out the financial side as well. Started with a middleweight and a coach, then added a Light Heavyweight into the mix. Both started at the bottom of their divisions and have risen into the top 20 after about 2 years in-game time. But I'm bleeding cash each month, going from my initial 250k balance down to around 75k right now with expenses of 5k/mth. Purses are getting a little larger, but so is the time between bouts. Not sure how I'm going to get more than another 18 months or so out of this without going bust unless one of them makes a massive leap.
After an all day play, I finally got a Featherweight to the number 1 position and one of the three belts. His biggest pay-day for the gym so far was 25k, but his next bout is supposed to net us 1.4 million. We will see if it will, but they usually come in under estimate. My advise is don't hire a coach till you have at least one top ten or so fighter. I brought in three fighters off the rip. The other two are still banging arou7nd in the teens. I waited till I was getting give figure paychecks from my star before hiring coaches. I now have two coaches and a physio. I am still trying to decide if I start another stable of fighters with the cash, or just start saving for when I need to replace what I have.
GrantDawg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2022, 11:12 AM   #24
SegRat
High School Varsity
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Oshkosh, WI
Found a bug for Leather on iOS. After playing the game my phone will not show any notifications.
__________________
USFL: Charlotte Fightn' Squirrels
SegRat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2022, 01:24 PM   #25
Fidatelo
Pro Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Winnipeg, MB
Quote:
Originally Posted by SegRat View Post
Found a bug for Leather on iOS. After playing the game my phone will not show any notifications.


Some days I'd argue this sounds like a feature to me
__________________
"Breakfast? Breakfast schmekfast, look at the score for God's sake. It's only the second period and I'm winning 12-2. Breakfasts come and go, Rene, but Hartford, the Whale, they only beat Vancouver maybe once or twice in a lifetime."
Fidatelo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2022, 05:39 PM   #26
GrantDawg
World Champion Mis-speller
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Covington, Ga.
I was wrong about the purse on the Championship fight. It was 4.5 million to the gym. I am now very cash flushed, and have two boxes with belts. One being the number one boxers in his weight. He win that big purse with a knock out in the 12th. He was ahead on every card anyway, but it was nice to get the knock out.
I really enjoy this game.

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk
GrantDawg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2022, 08:52 PM   #27
PilotMan
Head Coach
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Seven miles up
So I started with 250k and recruited 1 fighter, then a second. I wasn't sure about the economy so I was fairly conservative with the cash at first. After a while I hired a coach, and since the coach can teach 3 at once, I had about 100k in the bank I added a 3rd. All were 0-0 newbs and we started from the lowest ranks. I'm about 2.5 years in right now, and have one guy sitting at #4. His fights are starting to carry the club, and the other 2 are still climbing up. The achievement cash rewards have basically saved the club.We've won every single fight, except for a draw with one guy. I've been very choosy about the pace and fighter we're facing. Finally had my first challenge too. I just destroy the battery on my phone with this game.

Once we get a bit more flush with cash we'll start looking around and exploring more of the coaches, and expand the club.
__________________
He's just like if Snow White was competitive, horny, and capable of beating the shit out of anyone that called her Pops.

Like Steam?
Join the FOFC Steam group here: http://steamcommunity.com/groups/FOFConSteam




Last edited by PilotMan : 02-01-2022 at 09:03 AM.
PilotMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2022, 09:28 PM   #28
QuikSand
lolzcat
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Annapolis, Md
Quote:
Originally Posted by SegRat View Post
Found a bug for Leather on iOS. After playing the game my phone will not show any notifications.

okay, i'm sold, this is just what i'm looking for
QuikSand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2022, 08:09 AM   #29
Capital
High School Varsity
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
This is an offline game correct? Might be perfect for my upcoming airline trip.
Capital is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2022, 09:01 AM   #30
PilotMan
Head Coach
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Seven miles up
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capital View Post
This is an offline game correct? Might be perfect for my upcoming airline trip.

Yes, works great offline.
__________________
He's just like if Snow White was competitive, horny, and capable of beating the shit out of anyone that called her Pops.

Like Steam?
Join the FOFC Steam group here: http://steamcommunity.com/groups/FOFConSteam



PilotMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2022, 04:28 PM   #31
PilotMan
Head Coach
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Seven miles up
I just had my biggest fight ever.

My first fighter finally made it to the top of the division after 3.5 years of careful fight selection and training. He was ranked #3 and fought the #1 fighter, a guy with two world championship belts. So we had a 12-round fight at a 5* venue. I wasn't sure how it was going to go, but I wasn't excited when he dropped 3 of the first 4 rounds.

It was a balance to try and find the right mix of inside and outside without blowing away all my energy. Gradually the fight turned, and according to the media pundit, we were ahead and in good shape heading into the 11th round. Both fighters were tired and it was a tight fight, and we were pressing the action inside when he got tagged and dropped. I implored him off the canvas at the 7 count and he survived the round with a very damaged body without getting knocked down a 2nd time.

We came out for the 12th and I really had no idea how the scorecards were going. I decided to keep pressing the fight to the champ. I could tell that he was gassed, and his body and head were in bad shape. Just about 25 seconds into the 12th my fighter landed a combo and knocked the champ down and out.

Two of judges had us up 105-103, and the third had us down 105-103. So it really could have gone either way there.

The payday for the fight:

Holy shit

Gross purse 121.2 M

The fighter earned 26.1M net

The club brought in 9.15M on the fight.

So after 3.5 years, with 3 fighters, and one coach, who retired, and another we hired, we had brought the account back up to 200k and we were finally breathing a little easier. Now, after that one, single fight...we bring in 9.15M.

I think we're gonna be solvent for a while.

---

That was only the 2nd career defeat for the former champ, and he's (the former champ) currently the #2 All Time P4P GOAT in that weight class. After that win, my fighter has moved up to #12 All Time in the weight class with a 14-0-0 (9) record.
__________________
He's just like if Snow White was competitive, horny, and capable of beating the shit out of anyone that called her Pops.

Like Steam?
Join the FOFC Steam group here: http://steamcommunity.com/groups/FOFConSteam




Last edited by PilotMan : 02-01-2022 at 04:33 PM.
PilotMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2022, 05:06 PM   #32
AlexB
Pro Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Newbury, England
PM: how does Leather stack up against Boxing Manager?
__________________
'A song is a beautiful lie', Idlewild, Self Healer.
When you're smiling, the whole world smiles with you.
Sports!
AlexB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2022, 05:48 PM   #33
GrantDawg
World Champion Mis-speller
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Covington, Ga.
My guy is 14 (13)-1-0. His one loss was in his first Championship fight. He was knocked out in the 11th after being totally gassed. Before that, no one had lasted 2 rounds with him. Most hit the mat after 30 seconds. The rematch of that fight had the Champ down in 4 rounds. The only non-knockout win was for a second belt. The guy had a 100 toughness, 100 strength, and a 100 stamina. I have no idea how my dude won that, but it was a unanimous desicion. I am now sitting with 35 million in the bank. I bought a 4th fighter and gave him two managers and a physio. For some reason I can only find complete crap nutritionist.

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk

Last edited by GrantDawg : 02-01-2022 at 05:48 PM.
GrantDawg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2022, 05:50 PM   #34
molson
General Manager
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: The Mountains
What do you do once you get a ton of money? Have a bigger stable of fighters? Increase the quality of blow and hookers?
molson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2022, 07:16 PM   #35
PilotMan
Head Coach
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Seven miles up
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexB View Post
PM: how does Leather stack up against Boxing Manager?

I actually haven't had a chance to play it since I don't have an iphone, or an ipad. So I don't have anything to compare it to. One thing I like about this is the top down, 2D graphics in the fight. The strategies actually play themselves out fairly well, so if you are fighting outside offensive, you can see if your footwork is good enough to keep that pressing fighter off of you, or vice versa. I know wbcm didn't have anything like that, and you really needed to read into it to see how things were working out.
__________________
He's just like if Snow White was competitive, horny, and capable of beating the shit out of anyone that called her Pops.

Like Steam?
Join the FOFC Steam group here: http://steamcommunity.com/groups/FOFConSteam



PilotMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2022, 07:21 PM   #36
PilotMan
Head Coach
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Seven miles up
Quote:
Originally Posted by molson View Post
What do you do once you get a ton of money? Have a bigger stable of fighters? Increase the quality of blow and hookers?

Yeah, you're expanding your roster of fighters, hiring more coaches, physios, nutritionists. Balancing everything. I think that the micromanager side could get pretty deep with a huge stable, but there is a way to automate training so each week you do other things, but I don't know how repetitive it's going to get, but it's nice to finally be out from under the crush of money problems.
__________________
He's just like if Snow White was competitive, horny, and capable of beating the shit out of anyone that called her Pops.

Like Steam?
Join the FOFC Steam group here: http://steamcommunity.com/groups/FOFConSteam



PilotMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2022, 11:17 PM   #37
kingfc22
Head Coach
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Morgan Hill, CA
If you haven’t already you can tinker with the settings as it defaults to easy. You can also mask your opponents ratings and instead just see colors amongst other things.
__________________
Fan of SF Giants, 49ers, Sharks, Arsenal
kingfc22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2022, 09:52 AM   #38
Fidatelo
Pro Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Winnipeg, MB
I've also managed to break out of the financial struggle by getting some shots at top ranked fighters. My Light Heavyweight fighter Curtis "Murder" Mittens managed to combine two belts by stopping the other fighter in the 12th round when his eye closed up! Mittens was then ranked #1 and earned the Young Boxer of the Year award. Unfortunately his opponent, who had been winning on the scorecard before being stopped, wanted a rematch, and this one went the distance. Mittens dropped the belts and has fallen to rank 3.

I also have a rank 4 middleweight and I've added 3 new young boxers to the gym, including my first heavyweight. Sitting at $26.5mil in the bank and I don't think my 17k/mth expenses are going to be a problem anymore.
__________________
"Breakfast? Breakfast schmekfast, look at the score for God's sake. It's only the second period and I'm winning 12-2. Breakfasts come and go, Rene, but Hartford, the Whale, they only beat Vancouver maybe once or twice in a lifetime."
Fidatelo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2022, 11:20 AM   #39
PilotMan
Head Coach
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Seven miles up
Found out what you need that money for.

My best fighter is the unified Jr Middleweight Champion....his signing bonus was 25M. That took about half my bankroll.

Run into a wall with my other pair of guys. One is just hanging outside the top 10, and the other is top 5, but lost his first title shot, and is getting another, but we'll see if he holds.

I'm running across guys who don't look like anything but they are incredible and simply next tier guys given the way their fights play out.
__________________
He's just like if Snow White was competitive, horny, and capable of beating the shit out of anyone that called her Pops.

Like Steam?
Join the FOFC Steam group here: http://steamcommunity.com/groups/FOFConSteam



PilotMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2022, 12:09 PM   #40
molson
General Manager
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: The Mountains
Ah, so is there a dynamic where fighters sign on for a number of fights and then after that you have to pay up or lose them?

I bought the game a week or two ago, can't wait until I have time to dive in next week.
molson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2022, 12:19 PM   #41
PilotMan
Head Coach
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Seven miles up
It's a yearly contract, not fights based, so say 5 years, you can fight them all the way through that 5 years, and there's a negotiating system too, but so far it seems very fighter biased. I've had very little success dictating terms. That's the same as with your support staff.
__________________
He's just like if Snow White was competitive, horny, and capable of beating the shit out of anyone that called her Pops.

Like Steam?
Join the FOFC Steam group here: http://steamcommunity.com/groups/FOFConSteam



PilotMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2022, 10:22 AM   #42
Fidatelo
Pro Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Winnipeg, MB
One of my big fighters wanted a 24 mil signing bonus but I literally couldn't afford it. I offered around 9-10 mil iirc (this was a week or so ago) and he took it. So it is at least possible to call their bluff at times.
__________________
"Breakfast? Breakfast schmekfast, look at the score for God's sake. It's only the second period and I'm winning 12-2. Breakfasts come and go, Rene, but Hartford, the Whale, they only beat Vancouver maybe once or twice in a lifetime."
Fidatelo is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:13 AM.



Powered by vBulletin Version 3.6.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.