Its' Here! NHL 2008 Playoff Thread

[Schmidty]

Dola.

Does anyone know where I can find video of the parade and the Hart Plaza festivities?

[MikeVic]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

I must be meeting different Canadians, because around here, Canadians walk around town perpetually worked-up. Maybe it's a BC thing or something, but they are some of the most rude, grumpy people I have ever met.

Those aren't Canadians.

[Maple Leafs]

Spoiler

Apparently NHL.com was selling "Ovechkin 2008 Hart Trophy winner" t-shirts today.

[Arctic Blast]

Disappointed in the outcome, but congratulations to the Red Wings, who played a fantastic series.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

It's interesting taking a look back at this analysis. It was before the series began and I think a completely fair one. Looking back at just the finals, I think it'd look like this:

Crosby - Zetterberg
Malkin - Datsyuk
Hossa - Franzen
Malone - Holmstrom
Staal - Draper
Sykora - Filppula
Ruutu - Samuelsson
Kennedy - Hudler
Dupuis - Cleary
Talbot - Helm
Roberts - Drake
Hall - Maltby

Gonchar - Lidstrom
Whitney - Rafalski
Letang/Sydor - Kronwall
Orpik - Stuart
Gill - Lilja
Scuderi - Lebda

Goaltenders I am calling a draw, because both playing extremely well.

I would argue Talbot outplayed Helm, and not solely based on that one goal. And I could even say Orpik and Stuart even-- that is the best series of games Orpik has ever played, but Stuart was great too. Stuart was much more effective offensively, but also had so costly turnovers. Call it a wash.

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

MAF had an amazing Game 5. His performance in that game was one for the ages. But other than that I don't recall him really standing on his head in any of the other games and he had a pretty bad Game 6, due to exhaustion like you said.

Osgood had 2 shutouts and didn't really have any bad games. He was steady as they come, made almost all the timely saves, including a number of great ones.

I'm callin' evens.

Poor Osgood. He'll just never ever get the respect he deserves.

I think anyone on this board could have won those first two games 4-1 and 3-1. He wasn't even tested. Not taking anything away from Osgood, but he didn't have to play nearly to the level Fleury did just to keep the Pens competetive.

[DeToxRox]

Aren't you worried that Fleury is gonna get a huge RFA offer from a team needing a goalie? They cannot afford to pay him anything more then 4 mil a year and keep Malkin too.

[DeToxRox]

Dola ..

If Malkin gets Crosby money (which he'll get one way or the other) the Pens are going to be in trouble. I don't see how they can feasibly sign Hossa and Fleury this off season, and still keep Malkin.

[Pyser]

too bad the atlantic division is so set at goal, because MAF seems very stealable this off-season...or at least can force pitt's hand.

maybe another eastern conference team will step up, though.

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by Pyser

too bad the atlantic division is so set at goal, because MAF seems very stealable this off-season...or at least can force pitt's hand.

maybe another eastern conference team will step up, though.

There are plenty of teams. The thing to remember is when the cap moves up, the minimum cap # moves up to, meaning some teams will be forced to spend money.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

Aren't you worried that Fleury is gonna get a huge RFA offer from a team needing a goalie? They cannot afford to pay him anything more then 4 mil a year and keep Malkin too.

While it's always possible, remember what Fleury looked like at the beginning of the year. He was losing starts to Dany Sabourin. As well as he played in the playoffs, he's done it for about a 40 game stretch (when he came back in early March through the playoffs). That would be a huge risk for another team--especially when players like Lundqvist, universally seen as a superior player, make I believe around $4M

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

Dola ..

If Malkin gets Crosby money (which he'll get one way or the other) the Pens are going to be in trouble. I don't see how they can feasibly sign Hossa and Fleury this off season, and still keep Malkin.

They can keep Sid, Malkin and Hossa...it would be tight, but can be done. Anything Malkin signs this summer doesn't take effect until 2009-10, when Sydor ($2.5M), Sykora ($2.5M) and Gill ($2.1M) all come off the books.

Sure it would be risky-- Sid ($8.7) Hossa ($8M guess), Malkin ($8.5M ?), Staal ($3.5M ?) = $28.7M on 4 forwards against say a $58-60M cap that season. Add in Fleury at $4M, Gonchar in the last year of his deal ($5M) and Ryan Whitney ($4M) you are approaching $42M. $16-18M to spend on about 15 players (8 forwards to fill out the lineup + a spare, 4 D+ 1 spare, back up goalie and an extra skater somewhere). So you'd have guys like Letang one their 2nd deals making $1.5M or so, offset by young 4th liners making $400K. Guys like Talbot who are great character guys, but will not rise above 3rd liners, and won't see much more than $1.25-$1.5M.

That obviously precludes them from keeping Malone and Orpik. And put alot of pressure on scouts, and more so, Wilkes-Barre, to develop the kids there now to step up in about a year or 2. They have guys like Alex Goligoski who is tearing up the AHL playoffs as a 21 year old D. He could make someone like Whitney expendable, saving $2-3M. They have guys who were drafted in the 2nd and 3rd round in 2005 like Carl Sneep and Brian Strait, who will not be 30 min D men, but if they can be solid on the 2nd or 3rd pair on their entry level and secondary contacts, it can work.

And, while it's probably overblown, there are players who might like the chance to play with Sid or Malkin. This season, Petr Sykora called Ray Shero at 12:03 am on July 1st to say he wanted to come to Pittsburgh. There will always be FA who want a chance to win, and may be willing to sign shorter term deals (Sykora $5M over 2) who can fill a role.

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by Suburban Rhythm

While it's always possible, remember what Fleury looked like at the beginning of the year. He was losing starts to Dany Sabourin. As well as he played in the playoffs, he's done it for about a 40 game stretch (when he came back in early March through the playoffs). That would be a huge risk for another team--especially when players like Lundqvist, universally seen as a superior player, make I believe around $4M



They can keep Sid, Malkin and Hossa...it would be tight, but can be done. Anything Malkin signs this summer doesn't take effect until 2009-10, when Sydor ($2.5M), Sykora ($2.5M) and Gill ($2.1M) all come off the books.

Sure it would be risky-- Sid ($8.7) Hossa ($8M guess), Malkin ($8.5M ?), Staal ($3.5M ?) = $28.7M on 4 forwards against say a $58-60M cap that season. Add in Fleury at $4M, Gonchar in the last year of his deal ($5M) and Ryan Whitney ($4M) you are approaching $42M. $16-18M to spend on about 15 players (8 forwards to fill out the lineup + a spare, 4 D+ 1 spare, back up goalie and an extra skater somewhere). So you'd have guys like Letang one their 2nd deals making $1.5M or so, offset by young 4th liners making $400K. Guys like Talbot who are great character guys, but will not rise above 3rd liners, and won't see much more than $1.25-$1.5M.

That obviously precludes them from keeping Malone and Orpik. And put alot of pressure on scouts, and more so, Wilkes-Barre, to develop the kids there now to step up in about a year or 2. They have guys like Alex Goligoski who is tearing up the AHL playoffs as a 21 year old D. He could make someone like Whitney expendable, saving $2-3M. They have guys who were drafted in the 2nd and 3rd round in 2005 like Carl Sneep and Brian Strait, who will not be 30 min D men, but if they can be solid on the 2nd or 3rd pair on their entry level and secondary contacts, it can work.

And, while it's probably overblown, there are players who might like the chance to play with Sid or Malkin. This season, Petr Sykora called Ray Shero at 12:03 am on July 1st to say he wanted to come to Pittsburgh. There will always be FA who want a chance to win, and may be willing to sign shorter term deals (Sykora $5M over 2) who can fill a role.

I think it's probable they keep Malkin and Fleury, but I am just saying with the way Kevin Lowe has made FA a mine field, any team that lets an RFA test the waters is playing with a loaded gun.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

Aren't you worried that Fleury is gonna get a huge RFA offer from a team needing a goalie? They cannot afford to pay him anything more then 4 mil a year and keep Malkin too.

Do you think that $4 million is the limit for Fleury?

The Wings are pretty set this year. In fact, they could be in a position to sign a relatively high-priced free agent to a 1 year deal (paging Sundin, Mr. Mats Sundin) and still be set.

It's the year after that when things will get interesting. Datsyuk is making $7 million, Zetterberg's new deal will kick by then and will be around the same. Lidstrom will be on the last year of his current deal ($7 million). That'll be around $21 million tied up in three players. Things could be tight. That said, if the Wings can handle three $7 million contracts, couldn't the Pens do about the same with Crosby, Fleury, and Malkin?

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

I think it's probable they keep Malkin and Fleury, but I am just saying with the way Kevin Lowe has made FA a mine field, any team that lets an RFA test the waters is playing with a loaded gun.

God bless Kevin Lowe for that. I love it. I especially love how sour it makes Brian Burke when it comes up.

This isn't Eastside Hockey Manager. Other GMs can and should poach RFA's if they can. The Vanek deal definitely hurt Buffalo and, to date, I like the Penner deal for Edmonton and it definitely had a negative effect on the Ducks. I guess time will tell with the draft pick that was surrendered.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Suburban Rhythm

While it's always possible, remember what Fleury looked like at the beginning of the year. He was losing starts to Dany Sabourin. As well as he played in the playoffs, he's done it for about a 40 game stretch (when he came back in early March through the playoffs). That would be a huge risk for another team--especially when players like Lundqvist, universally seen as a superior player, make I believe around $4M

They can keep Sid, Malkin and Hossa...it would be tight, but can be done. Anything Malkin signs this summer doesn't take effect until 2009-10, when Sydor ($2.5M), Sykora ($2.5M) and Gill ($2.1M) all come off the books.

Sure it would be risky-- Sid ($8.7) Hossa ($8M guess), Malkin ($8.5M ?), Staal ($3.5M ?) = $28.7M on 4 forwards against say a $58-60M cap that season. Add in Fleury at $4M, Gonchar in the last year of his deal ($5M) and Ryan Whitney ($4M) you are approaching $42M. $16-18M to spend on about 15 players (8 forwards to fill out the lineup + a spare, 4 D+ 1 spare, back up goalie and an extra skater somewhere). So you'd have guys like Letang one their 2nd deals making $1.5M or so, offset by young 4th liners making $400K. Guys like Talbot who are great character guys, but will not rise above 3rd liners, and won't see much more than $1.25-$1.5M.

That obviously precludes them from keeping Malone and Orpik. And put alot of pressure on scouts, and more so, Wilkes-Barre, to develop the kids there now to step up in about a year or 2. They have guys like Alex Goligoski who is tearing up the AHL playoffs as a 21 year old D. He could make someone like Whitney expendable, saving $2-3M. They have guys who were drafted in the 2nd and 3rd round in 2005 like Carl Sneep and Brian Strait, who will not be 30 min D men, but if they can be solid on the 2nd or 3rd pair on their entry level and secondary contacts, it can work.

And, while it's probably overblown, there are players who might like the chance to play with Sid or Malkin. This season, Petr Sykora called Ray Shero at 12:03 am on July 1st to say he wanted to come to Pittsburgh. There will always be FA who want a chance to win, and may be willing to sign shorter term deals (Sykora $5M over 2) who can fill a role.

Sound analysis.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

Dola.

Does anyone know where I can find video of the parade and the Hart Plaza festivities?

Schmidty,

Try some of this link:

http://www.wwj.com/pages/2295354.php

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

Do you think that $4 million is the limit for Fleury?

The Wings are pretty set this year. In fact, they could be in a position to sign a relatively high-priced free agent to a 1 year deal (paging Sundin, Mr. Mats Sundin) and still be set.

It's the year after that when things will get interesting. Datsyuk is making $7 million, Zetterberg's new deal will kick by then and will be around the same. Lidstrom will be on the last year of his current deal ($7 million). That'll be around $21 million tied up in three players. Things could be tight. That said, if the Wings can handle three $7 million contracts, couldn't the Pens do about the same with Crosby, Fleury, and Malkin?

It's different though because Detroit has a lot of other guys locked up to reasonable deals, and has shown their guys, rookies, or journeymen, can come in and play their system and be amazing bargains.

No other team has ever shown me that.

[DeToxRox]

As far as 4 mil being the limit for Fleury.. I think it's the reasonable amount. He hasn't been a great goalie in his career. He's just as likely to be Jose Theodore as he is Evgeni Nabakov. A big money deal is not out of the question though, especially if a team is hurting for a goalie and has the money.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

As far as 4 mil being the limit for Fleury.. I think it's the reasonable amount. He hasn't been a great goalie in his career. He's just as likely to be Jose Theodore as he is Evgeni Nabakov. A big money deal is not out of the question though, especially if a team is hurting for a goalie and has the money.

I agree. I think $4 mil or $4.5 would be about right at this point. I guess length of the deal would come into serious play as well.

[Draft Dodger]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

I think it's probable they keep Malkin and Fleury, but I am just saying with the way Kevin Lowe has made FA a mine field, any team that lets an RFA test the waters is playing with a loaded gun.

also, the UFA goalie crop is extremely weak.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by Draft Dodger

also, the UFA goalie crop is extremely weak.

Two keys...

1) If it's the same $4M the Pens were around, they match the offer sheet. Higher than that, sure then it's a question. But is someone going to reach beyond that? I don't know the exact levels, but at like $6.2M, it's 4 first round picks.

2) Fleury has to sign the offer sheet. Not saying he is married to Pittsburgh, but I think he is much more likely to bypass even considering offer sheets than say Malkin, who could potentially break $9M on a offer sheet, that he might not get from Pittsburgh.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Here's the final story on Franzen.

http://blog.mlive.com/snapshots/2008...plains_it.html

As MLive.com's own Ansar Khan reports, the Red Wings finally revealed on late Friday/early Saturday that Johan Franzen had suffered a sub-dural hematoma, or, in layman's speak, a bruise on the side of brain.


In technical speak? The brain--whose tissue has a slightly "mushy' consistency--and nerves essentially "float" in something called cerebrospinal fluid. As the brain floats and sloshes around when you move, there are layers of tissue called meninges, surrounding those nerves and especially the brain. Meninges are the physical "stuff" that separates your brain and the inside of your skull. The innermost layer of meninges/stuff is called the pia mater, the middle layer is the arachnoid mater, and the outermost layer of tissue is called the dura mater, which is very tough and actually provides the brain's physical attachment to the skull.


When you get a bump on the head, your brain bumps into the meninges, which help prevent your brain from getting damaged by the skull. When you suffer a concussion, it's your brain that ends up getting bruised; when you suffer a subdural hematoma, it's the meninges that gets bruised, and, specifically, it's the area between the dura and arachnoid mater.
Like any bruise, blood collects and clots, but when you're dealing with a bruise within the cerebrospinal fluid, unless that bruise is allowed to go away naturally, some of that clot can break off and move within the cerebrospinal fluid, and cause a stroke or more internal bleeding. That's why they completely shut Franzen down and gave him multiple MRIs over a short course of time.


That's why both Wings coach Mike Babcock and the team's trainers were deferring to the team's medical staff--Babcock never said Franzen could return when Piet Van Zant cleared him--that's why the Wings were using the term, "concussion-like symptoms," and that's why no one, from Ken Holland to Babcock, Van Zant, or Franzen himself, were talking about baseline neurological tests or concussion specialists.



The first thing you're checked out for when you're exhibiting any symptoms related to a concussion is bleeding, usually via a CT scan, and once that's ruled out, the neurological protocols for concussion treatment follow. In Franzen's case, the first thing they found was a hematoma, so they were more worried about determining the size and shape of the hematoma and whether it could dissipate without the use of blood-thinning medications first, and while they eventually were able to rule a concussion out, the Wings' doctors could only wait and hope that the "concussion-like symptom" would heal on its own.


This also explains why Franzen seemed to hit an absolute wall about three games in, only to recover in terms of his "wind" and "pace of game" late in the Stanley Cup Finals--when you've got a concussion, part of an athlete's recovery is to see what kind of physical exertion he can maintain without a recurrence of symptoms, and when he can, say, ride a stationary bike for thirty minutes without headaches or nausea for a few days, you ramp that up. In Franzen's case, the first day he skated was very likely the first day he could resume any physical activity whatsoever.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Originally Posted by Draft Dodger

also, the UFA goalie crop is extremely weak.

I clicked that link and only one question really came to mind for me:

Fred Brathwaite... they still make that?

[Pumpy Tudors]

Also, thanks for that link, Draft Dodger. I had never heard of that nhlnumbers.com site, but I just took a look at the Devils and now I'm ready to kill myself. I hadn't realized that they have Dainius Zubrus signed through 2013. He was a complete waste of space this past season. Shit, he's in competition with Colin White for my "least favorite Devil" award. At least Colin White is useful sometimes.

But I digest.

[sterlingice]

Ooh. I love that site. Back when I was in a Front Page Sports BBPro league, I made a spreadsheet just like that for my Royals team to keep track of our cap number but also future talent, possible positions, etc

SI

[Suburban Rhythm]

Here is another, similar site

http://www.nhlscap.com/

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

I clicked that link and only one question really came to mind for me:

Fred Brathwaite... they still make that?

Another reason why to this day I still get pissed when I think how Burke gave away Bryzgalov for nothing last fall.

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Another reason why to this day I still get pissed when I think how Burke gave away Bryzgalov for nothing last fall.

That move was inexcusable.

He needs to be fired. Now.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Interesting take on the officiating in the finals. I don't think I agree with it completely (other than the horrible non-call on Datsyuk at the end of the game and that charging call on Drake was pretty weak, though there were a number of calls and non-calls both ways throughout, always are in a series).

http://www.nationalpost.com/sports/story.html?id=573430
Officials tipped toward Pens' favour in final

Tony Gallagher, Canwest News Service Published: Sunday, June 08, 2008



VANCOUVER -- Now that the Stanley Cup has been awarded to the Detroit Red Wings and any emotion from any one particular game has faded, we would be remiss if we didn't seriously ask some questions about what actually took place in that final series with respect to the officiating.


Having been around the NHL pretty much since the dawn of man, I have watched a lot of games and have seen a lot of good and bad calls by good and bad referees, and I rarely address this topic.


By and large the NHL officials are outstanding individuals whom any corporation would be thrilled to have represent them in almost any situation.


When the way the game was officiated swung back and forth in pendulum fashion over the years, you knew that these guys were always just doing what they were instructed to do by the New York office.


And when the most important games were played, the most experienced, senior officials were front and centre.


And even though the referees of the day would frequently call virtually nothing once the third period began and the game moved into overtime, there was never any sense of anything fishy.


The breaks involved in officials' judgments always seen to balance out over a series of games. There was no such feeling at this year's final.


While nobody really wanted to say so, how could you have possibly watched the calls in that series and not had the feeling that somehow, consciously or more likely unconsciously, there was a slant toward favouring the Pittsburgh Penguins?


While it seemed to be prevalent most of the series, at times to a far lesser extent, the final 20 seconds of Game 6 illustrated the problem perfectly.
With Detroit just having given up a power-play goal that allowed Pittsburgh to get to within 3-2 with under two minutes to go, the Pens had their goalie out and the Wings under siege.


But with about 18 seconds left, Pavel Datsyuk of the Wings managed to skate free with the puck, skate it out over the blue-line, but as he readied a shot toward the open net, he was hauled down with an abundantly obvious stick foul so blatant that Helen Keller would have been forced to raise her arm.


No call.


Pittsburgh then got the puck, stormed the other end and nearly tied the game in the last second.


This call wasn't missed. There is absolutely no conceivable way it could have been missed.


But the officials chose not to end the Penguins' season. In fact, for the first time in all my years of viewing hockey, I was overwhelmed by a sense that there existed a desperate need to keep this series going for the good of the game, no matter how far rule interpretations had to be stretched.


The most difficult part came once the series began to gain momentum and it became abundantly obvious the television ratings in the U.S. were building with every game and the league was sending out press releases to one and all that this was the case.


That's when things began to get a touch malodorous. With Detroit leading 2-1 in the third period of Game 4, the 1:26 of five-on-three time awarded Pittsburgh comes to mind.


In OT of Game 5, with the series a goal away from extinction, the two goalie interference calls that had Detroit head coach Mike Babcock steamed enough he felt compelled to complain to the media the following day didn't seem to pass the smell test.


There was Dallas Drake's charging penalty when in fact he was scarcely moving and barely made contact. The fact that one team had virtually all the five-on-three time, often for extended periods, was troubling.


And then there was the Datsyuk no-call, one that would have set off an absolute firestorm for hockey had the Pens sent it to overtime.


Of 10 experienced media types consulted about the officiating after the series, not one said they thought it was all right.


The responses of most can be summed up with a simple head shake and the response "not good."


Much has been made by some of the fact that the league didn't seem to use the most experienced people, but instead those who were vigilant about calling the touch stick fouls that have improved the game. And that may have been a factor. But the fact remains the officials who were used are generally very good at their craft.


Sorry, but there was something just not right about the way that series went down.

[sterlingice]

You did get the cup. You know that, right?

SI

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

You did get the cup. You know that, right?

SI

I am sure Crosby is still somewhere complaining, so HB can too.

[bhlloy]

That no call on the trip in the last 20 seconds of game 6 was easily the worst no-call I have ever seen in hockey. If a ref isn't brave enough to make the right call because of the situation, they really shouldn't be a ref anymore. And the Drake penalty was an abysmal call as well. Bad refereeing the whole series long IMO, although of course calling it a fix is ridiculous.

[DeToxRox]

The Dallas Drake charge was just funny because before that I don't even know the last time I saw anyone ever called for a charge.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

That move was inexcusable.

He needs to be fired. Now.

lol...nice try.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

You did get the cup. You know that, right?

SI

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

I am sure Crosby is still somewhere complaining, so HB can too.

Eh, I wasn't really complaining, just noting the facts.