It's here! The NHL 2003-04 playoff thread

[bbor]

Carry-on your debates

[klayman]

Nothing would start a playoff thread better than a round of Shady Players

[Vince]

Go Sharks

[Draft Dodger]

well, I'm off for all the Avs/Stars games except game 5. that worked out nicely for me.
now, if I wasn't so damn nervous about this series...

[Hurst2112]

Originally Posted by Draft Dodger

well, I'm off for all the Avs/Stars games except game 5. that worked out nicely for me.
now, if I wasn't so damn nervous about this series...

That is going to be 1 series that I will pay attention to...even as a wings fan. It might be the best of the first round.

I get the most nervous this time of year. It's fun, but very stressful.

[Fidatelo]

Best series of the first round will be TO vs OTT.

[sachmo71]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

Best series of the first round will be TO vs OTT.

Agreed. Much hate on the ice.

[k0ruptr]

sweet the playoffs! time to start watchin the nhl

[Hurst2112]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

Best series of the first round will be TO vs OTT.

sorry, i meant the west. I forgot about to and ott

[k0ruptr]

who made the playoffs this year.

[sterlingice]

Woo! The thread returns!

SI

[Chubby]

let's go anyone but the leafs!

[sachmo71]

Originally Posted by k0ruptr

who made the playoffs this year.

Eastern Conference:

#1 Tampa Bay vs. #8 N.Y. Islanders
#2 Boston vs. #7 Montreal
#3 Philadelphia vs. #6 New Jersey
#4 Toronto vs. #5 Ottawa

Western Conference:

#1 Detroit vs. #8 Nashville
#2 San Jose vs. #7 St. Louis
#3 Vancouver vs. #6 Calgary
#4 Colorado vs. #5 Dallas

[Draft Dodger]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

Best series of the first round will be TO vs OTT.

yes.

and Stars/Avs and Devils/Flyers should be pretty nice as well.

[k0ruptr]

go philly. and down with the lightning!

[Hurst2112]

Originally Posted by sachmo71

Eastern Conference:

#1 Tampa Bay vs. #8 N.Y. Islanders
#2 Boston vs. #7 Montreal
#3 Philadelphia vs. #6 New Jersey
#4 Toronto vs. #5 Ottawa

Western Conference:

#1 Detroit vs. #8 Nashville
#2 San Jose vs. #7 St. Louis
#3 Vancouver vs. #6 Calgary
#4 Colorado vs. #5 Dallas

Just my thoughts:

Tampa in 6
Boston in 5
New Jersey in 6
Ottawa in 7

Detroit in 5
San Jose in 4
Calgary in 6 (long shot)
Colorado in 6

[Vince]

Really, it pains me to say this because I love them to death...but I haven't really followed the Sharks much since they collapsed mid last year. Then they become amazing again in record time...

What do you guys think about the Sharks this year? How far can they get?

[Johnny93g]

I cant wait for the Leafs/Sens series......I love seeing those babies in Ottawa cry about how everything is biased towards Toronto...."Bob Cole and Harry Neale like Toronto better" wahwahwah.....

[Draft Dodger]

Originally Posted by Vince

Really, it pains me to say this because I love them to death...but I haven't really followed the Sharks much since they collapsed mid last year. Then they become amazing again in record time...

What do you guys think about the Sharks this year? How far can they get?

I think they are pretenders, to be honest. 2 years ago they were a dangerous team that everyone was afraid of. I don't think they strike fear in anyone this year, even though they are the #2 seed.

I don't really know why this is, they just don't seem to have that certain something...

[Draft Dodger]

Originally Posted by Johnny93g

I cant wait for the Leafs/Sens series......I love seeing those babies in Ottawa cry about how everything is biased towards Toronto...."Bob Cole and Harry Neale like Toronto better" wahwahwah.....

um, dude? everything IS biased towards Toronto.

[Karim]

Bob Cole sucks. Maybe he was good once but there are many better play-by-play guys. He's behind the play, can't get the words out of his mouth, and makes mistakes as to what's going on when it's painfully obvious to the viewer. That's ignoring his Toronto bias.

My picks:

Detroit in 5
Vancouver in 7
Dallas in 6
St. Louis in 7

Tampa in 5
Boston in 5
Toronto in 5
New Jersey in 7

[sterlingice]

WTH? Gary Thorne is calling the A's game on ESPN2. Doesn't he have a hockey game to do tomorrow with Bill Clement somewhere, someplace?

SI

[Chubby]

I guess I'm rooting for Tampa this year.

[Vince]

Originally Posted by Draft Dodger

I think they are pretenders, to be honest. 2 years ago they were a dangerous team that everyone was afraid of. I don't think they strike fear in anyone this year, even though they are the #2 seed.

I don't really know why this is, they just don't seem to have that certain something...

DD - to be honest, this is what I'm afraid of. Like I said, I haven't been able to follow it much, but you nailed exactly my line of thinking about the team anyways. However, when we were 'a dangerous team,' we didn't really do much (I don't think we've ever won in the second round before), so maybe this is the year?

[Draft Dodger]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

WTH? Gary Thorne is calling the A's game on ESPN2. Doesn't he have a hockey game to do tomorrow with Bill Clement somewhere, someplace?

SI

I'm guessing no - the playoffs start on Wednesday.

[Draft Dodger]

Originally Posted by Vince

DD - to be honest, this is what I'm afraid of. Like I said, I haven't been able to follow it much, but you nailed exactly my line of thinking about the team anyways. However, when we were 'a dangerous team,' we didn't really do much (I don't think we've ever won in the second round before), so maybe this is the year?

maybe so. their first round opponent is St Louis, who I would peg almost the exact same way - good talent, no "whatever". plus, they have Osgood...
so, the Sharks could easily get to the 2nd round...

[Tekneek]

Originally Posted by Chubby

let's go anyone but the leafs!

I'm with ya on that one. They would have to be the last Canadian team standing for me to even consider cheering them on.

[bbor]

Damn Leaf haters

[Pumpy Tudors]

Go Devils! REPEAT! REPEAT!

[Hurst2112]

attention wings fans...

I have been making video tapes of every wings playoff game since 97. Does anybody know if the Saturday game is a national one? The reason I ask is because I am gonna be gone and would like to know if i have to set the VCR.

Oh, and yes, I am a big time geek.

[tucker342]

Go Sharks and go Lightning!

Does anyone know why there's a hockey team in Florida?

[Hurst2112]

Originally Posted by tucker342

Go Sharks and go Lightning!

Does anyone know why there's a hockey team in Florida?

Or below the Mason-Dixon for that matter.

[klayman]

Originally Posted by tucker342

Does anyone know why there's a hockey team in Florida?

Uh, Bettman's an idiot?

[bbor]

Originally Posted by tucker342

Go Sharks and go Lightning!

Does anyone know why there's a hockey team in Florida?

They needed the money to replace their lack of tv deal.

[Pumpy Tudors]

A hockey team in Florida? How soon we forget. Eight years ago, the Florida Panthers were in the Stanley Cup Finals. Uwe Krupp took the wind out of them that year, and the Panthers haven't been the same since. As far as "southern" teams are concerned, I'm really pulling for Nashville this year, in part because of their unexpected trip to the playoffs, and also because I hate the Red Wings. I was pulling for Anaheim last year, too, so a Devils-Ducks final was perfect for me. This year, I hope for a Devils-Predators final. Go Devils!

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

A because I hate the Red Wings.

PISS OFF!

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Hurst2112

attention wings fans...

I have been making video tapes of every wings playoff game since 97. Does anybody know if the Saturday game is a national one? The reason I ask is because I am gonna be gone and would like to know if i have to set the VCR.

Oh, and yes, I am a big time geek.

Yes, it's on ABC.

Do you keep the losses? I don't. I made tapes of the '97 and '98 play-off runs, but always taped over the games they lost. There was no way I would watch those games again.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by sachmo71

Eastern Conference:

#1 Tampa Bay vs. #8 N.Y. Islanders
#2 Boston vs. #7 Montreal
#3 Philadelphia vs. #6 New Jersey
#4 Toronto vs. #5 Ottawa

Western Conference:

#1 Detroit vs. #8 Nashville
#2 San Jose vs. #7 St. Louis
#3 Vancouver vs. #6 Calgary
#4 Colorado vs. #5 Dallas

I find picking a winner for any of these series to be incredibly difficult. I can't really think of any series that just seems like a gimme. I reckon it has to do with the lack of real stellar goaltending. With the retirement of Roy and the retirement/injury of Hasek, I think there are only two "world class" goaltenders left in the game: Belfour and Brodeur. Those are the only two goaltenders who scare me. Granted, one goalie is likely to go all Giggy on us at some point and start playing amazingly well (pleasedon'tletitbeVokounpleasedon'tletitbeVokounpleasedon'tletitbeVokounpleasedon'tletitbeVokounpleasedon'tletitbeVokoun), but as things start that's basically it. There are plenty of quality netminders, such as Khabibuhlin, Nabokov, Theodore, etc., but none at the "world class" level. That being said, here are the picks:

My Picks:

#1 Tampa Bay vs. #8 N.Y. Islanders
Tampa Bay in 5.

I am not sold on Tampa. I like them, I always have. I am not sure why exactly. Probably becaue Petr Klima played a few seasons for them and as my first real favorite hockey player, I have a soft spot for him and the teams he played for (I was up until 2 am the night Klima scored the 3OT game winner against Boston in the 1990 Cup Finals. The only reason he scored was because he had played a total of 5 minutes, because he wasn't playing all that well or hard, but it was good to see). Even though I am not sold on Tampa, they have a solid blue line, plenty of talent upfront, and the Buhlin wall between the pipes. I don't even know who is starting in net for the Islanders. 'Nuff said.

#2 Boston vs. #7 Montreal
Montreal in 7.

A classic series and it gives us the first "injury intrigue" of the play-offs, Joe Thornton and his "upper body injury." Is it his ribs? His wrist? No one knows! Classic stuff. I don't think Big Joe will make an appearance in this series, if he does, he may be limited in action. The Bruins have rode the Raycroft wave for the entire year. He's been stellar. Rookie of the year material. This is the play-offs. Unless your rookie is Patrick Roy (see, I show respect, though behind the veil of respect is seething hatred), you can't feel comfortable going into the playoffs with a rookie between the pipes. You just never know when he's going to go all Jim Carey on you. We've seen it happen so many times before. I also have a gut feeling that Theodore is going to play very well and steal this one for the Habs. He's their only hope really, because Montreal can't match up with Boston talentwise.

#3 Philadelphia vs. #6 New Jersey
New Jersey in 5.

If I had to pick one "sure thing", I think this series would be it. Philly has all sorts of trouble in goal, Esche starting is one example. They are Philly. They are playing Brodeur. Even without Stevens, I don't see the Devils losing this one. They have shown a flair for some big offensive outputs and they have Brodeur. Even is he slept with his wife's sister, he's still a very good goalie, though perhaps a very bad man.

#4 Toronto vs. #5 Ottawa
Toronot in 7.

Best series of the first round and could end up being the best series of the entire playoffs. No one should be surprised, Toronto is almost always involved in some of the best matchups because they have so many nasty players (Domi, Tucker, Sundin (yes, he's nasty), Roberts, etc. No Corson though which is sad) and you get in a long series with them and emotions will come out (see: New Jersey, Islanders, etc.) There will be no shortage of emotions between these rivals. Ottawa is probably the most talented team at the moment. Loaded with skill. They are also play-off hardened in a way. Been through a number of tough, physical series, have won big games and came within one goal of the finals last year. These aren't the same old lilly-white Sens. That being said, even without Owen Nolan I like the Leafs with Leetch and McCabe along the blue-line and Eddie the Eagle in net. I think Lalime is a fine goalie, but he's no Belfour.

#1 Detroit vs. #8 Nashville
Detroit in 5.

Like Hurst said, there is nothing worse than the first round for Red Wings fans. So many heartbreaks, the Leafs and f*cking Nikolai Borchevsky (or however the hell you spell that no-talent assclown's name) in 1992, the Sharks in 1993, the Kings in 2001, the Ducks in 2003. So many horrible, nightmarish first round series. This one has all the makings of another one. Expansion team's first foray into the playoffs. A solid goaltender in Vokoun. A team the Wings have struggled against historically. Start from there and add the fact that Legace is starting in net and things look grim. I like Manny. I think he's a solid, if not unspectacular goaltender and perhaps the best back-up in the league. But I don't think he makes a great #1 goalie and he his playoff experience is all of 15 minutes or so of mop-up time. There's no telling how Manny will react and it is for certain that there will be no series in which the Wings play that I could comfortably say "our goalie is better than their's." (Wings fans could really only say this in 2002 when Hasekn was playing). There is no telling how the injuries to Draper and Lang have healed and how well Hatcher will mesh with the defensive corps. That being said, I cannot and will not predict a first round collapse against Nashville, Steve Sullivan be damned!

#2 San Jose vs. #7 St. Louis
St. Louis in 6.

I agree with DD, San Jose doesn't scare me. I have no idea really how they sucked so hard last year, traded away some of their big name players, and then all of a sudden became so damned good this year. I reckon some of it has to do with Nabokov, but I have no idea. They do have some talent, but Marleau and Sturm (I always think of them as the same player), though talented never really scare me. St. Louis squeaked into the play-offs and their blueline has been decimated with injury. That said, they have some good players upfront with Weight, Demetria, Tkachuk, and others. Osgood isn't as bad as many people think (he certainly isn't self-immolation bad). I'll go with the Blues on this one, I have no idea why.

#3 Vancouver vs. #6 Calgary
Calgary in 7.

This should be a great series. Good Canadian rivalry. The Canucks are always fun to watch because they play a fast, up-tempo style. Even without Bertuzzi they have plenty of skill up front with Naslund, Morrison, Sanderson, the Sedin twins, Rucinsky, etc. I think I like Calgary in this one. Though Kiprusoff lacks play-off experience, I think he will be solid. I have no faith in Cloutier. Never have, never will. Lacks a mental toughness. I've thought this ever since he was playing in Tampa Bay and New York. Maybe he's developed it, but I don't think so. I think Iginla will be on fire, Kiprusoff will keep the puck out of the net and Calgary will win it's first series since Karim was knee-high to a grasshopper.

#4 Colorado vs. #5 Dallas
Dallas in 6.

Should be a great series. Plenty of talent on both sides. At the begining of the season, I thought Colorado's top two lines would be the best two lines in hockey: Tangauy-Forsberg-Hejduk and Selanne-Sakic-Kariya. The first line was the best last year and who didn't think sticking Sakic between Selanne and Kariya wouldn't produce one of the best lines ever? Kariya and Selanne were amazing together for years in Anaheim without any really quality centerman (I like Rucchin, I think he's good, but he was always hurt back then). Didn't really happen though. Despite taking ridiculously low salaries, given their play, Kariya and Selanne were over-paid. Neither had a good season. Now Kariya is out with an ankle injury (the man heals very slowly) and I think Tanguay is still injured too. That will cause some havok in the line combinations. I like the additions of Gratton and Barnaby (especially Barnaby), but you always have to be wary whenever a team makes so many moves at the deadline. It rarely works in their favor (unless they get some ridiculous deal involving Ron Francis and Ulf Samuelsson). Dallas played very well down the stretch, especially Billy Guerin and Marty Turco. Speaking of Turco, the Avs go into the playoff with Abeschire in net. He's been solid all season, but he's yet one more goalie who has no play-off experience. He could crack under the pressure. The edge between the pipes has to go to Dallas. Between that and Colorado's injury problems up front, I am going with the Stars.

[Hurst2112]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

Yes, it's on ABC.

Do you keep the losses? I don't. I made tapes of the '97 and '98 play-off runs, but always taped over the games they lost. There was no way I would watch those games again.

Yeah, I keep the losses. No, I don't watch them. I guess i have them for a VHS pissing match I might have in the bar someday.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

A hockey team in Florida? How soon we forget. Eight years ago, the Florida Panthers were in the Stanley Cup Finals. Uwe Krupp took the wind out of them that year, and the Panthers haven't been the same since.

In fairness, Uwe Krupp isn't the reason they haven't been the same.

They rode a hot goaltender and a strong defense to the Eastern Conference championship that year. They had no offense to speak of (didn't all four games go to OT that year?), and when they hit Colorado, they hit a team that had not only a solid defense + a hot goaltender, but an actual offense to boot.

They weren't able to recapture that lightning in a bottle in subsequent seasons, and Vanbiesbrouck eventually said "Fuck you guys, I want outta here." when he felt that his stats were suffering because the defensemen weren't playing hard enough in front of the net...or so he claimed, at least.

Kinda like Roy with the 8-0 loss to Detroit that ended his stay in Montreal, except without the whole "Coach WANTED me to fail" accusations.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

Osgood isn't as bad as many people think (he certainly isn't self-immolation bad).

I would have thought after years of watching him choke away games you would know better (yes, yes, he has a Cup, but wouldn't you have won more without him). I enjoyed watching him land in St Louis after so many years of seeing him play for Detroit. It's like watching a cancer pass from the clubhouse of one rival to another, like watching GMs play hot potato with Albert Belle. Equally entertaining was watching the Blues replace one playoff choking sieve (Turek) with another.

SI

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

The first line was the best last year and who didn't think sticking Sakic between Selanne and Kariya wouldn't produce one of the best lines ever? Kariya and Selanne were amazing together for years in Anaheim without any really quality centerman (I like Rucchin, I think he's good, but he was always hurt back then).

It's true, he was constantly playing through injuries, but it was nothing like later on. Rucchin was the kind of gritty player who would pick up little bangs here and there and miss a few games each season, but he didn't really start to pick up the injury-prone reputation until 2000 when he played in 16 games, and 2001, when he was in 38. The 2000-01 season (the one in which he played 16 games) was the last season with the Kariya-Selanne pairing, and that was even broken up midway through that season when Selanne was shipped to San Jose.

In the seasons before that where Rucchin was centering Kariya and Selanne, he appeared in 79, 72, 69 and 71 games-- a total of 291 games. He put up 78 goals and 239 points. Sure, he wasn't always healthy, but I don't think he was honestly hurt enough in that time period at any time to say that health issues dropped him from being a quality centreman.

Now, if you mean a quality centreman as in a superstud like Sakic or Yzerman or Federov, well, yeah, okay, but Rooch wouldn't have been up to those guys' levels even if he never missed a single game to injury. If that's what you mean, I concede that as true.

If not, though, I would regard Rucchin as a fairly high quality center in comparison to most centers in the NHL, not first or second tier (i.e. Top 10 at the position), but certainly worthy of being in the Top 20 centers or so in the league, especially back when he was centering those two guys (and he did all the dirty work they wouldn't or couldn't do).

Incidentally, Rooch, who was our captain this season, has appeared in 82 games each of the past two seasons. Go figure, eh?

I'm sure you understand who I am rooting for in the Dallas-Colorado series. Nothing could bring me more satisfaction than to see the Avs get bounced in the first round, and I think the Stars can do it. I was pretty happy to see both Selanne and Kariya play as poorly/as little as they did this season. It's called karma.

CR

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

I would have thought after years of watching him choke away games you would know better (yes, yes, he has a Cup, but wouldn't you have won more without him). I enjoyed watching him land in St Louis after so many years of seeing him play for Detroit. It's like watching a cancer pass from the clubhouse of one rival to another, like watching GMs play hot potato with Albert Belle. Equally entertaining was watching the Blues replace one playoff choking sieve (Turek) with another.

SI

I never really thought Osgood was the reason the Wings lost in 2000 and 2001. I actually thought he was one of the better players in both years. 1999 wasn't his fault either, because he was injured and only played after Ranford totally imploded. The problem with Osgood is that he's prone to let up a soft goal from time to time and to give up the untimely goal. I think he's a decent goalie. THen again it's true that I never felt 100% comfortable going into a playoff series with him in net.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

I never really thought Osgood was the reason the Wings lost in 2000 and 2001. I actually thought he was one of the better players in both years. 1999 wasn't his fault either, because he was injured and only played after Ranford totally imploded. The problem with Osgood is that he's prone to let up a soft goal from time to time and to give up the untimely goal. I think he's a decent goalie. THen again it's true that I never felt 100% comfortable going into a playoff series with him in net.

Obviously not everyone can have Roy or Brodeur between the pipes. But with the money you guys threw around, there was no excuse to have a goalie who was average at best. If you're going to build for the cup, you've gotta have a top 10-type goalie, one of those guys who is solid and can take over games (as opposed to the aforementioned two, who you just know will take over games).

SI

[Pumpy Tudors]

Since sterlingice mentioned Roman Turek, anyone want to take a guess as to how many playoff games he appears in this season?

[KevinNU7]

Originally Posted by sachmo71

Eastern Conference:
#1 Tampa Bay vs. #8 N.Y. Islanders
#2 Boston vs. #7 Montreal
#3 Philadelphia vs. #6 New Jersey
#4 Toronto vs. #5 Ottawa

With the exception of Tampa Bay/NYI it's rivalry week in the Eastern Conference

[RPI-Fan]

#1 Tampa Bay vs. #8 N.Y. Islanders
Tampa Bay in 5.

I am not sold on Tampa. I like them, I always have. I am not sure why exactly. Probably becaue Petr Klima played a few seasons for them and as my first real favorite hockey player, I have a soft spot for him and the teams he played for (I was up until 2 am the night Klima scored the 3OT game winner against Boston in the 1990 Cup Finals. The only reason he scored was because he had played a total of 5 minutes, because he wasn't playing all that well or hard, but it was good to see). Even though I am not sold on Tampa, they have a solid blue line, plenty of talent upfront, and the Buhlin wall between the pipes. I don't even know who is starting in net for the Islanders. 'Nuff said.

DiPietro is our goalie - if he's on his game, he's as good as Turco or Brodeur. The problem is, he's inconsistent. For 3 or 4 games at a time, he looks like the aforementioned guys. Then for 2 or 3, he makes fucking Garth Snow look like a god.

But anyways, the Islanders have a HUGE advantage at the blue line, no questions asked. It's not even close there. Likewise, Tampa has a huge advantage up front. Again, no questions asked.

If Khabi and DiPi are both on top of their games, Rico is the better goaltender. However, Khabi is more likely to play well.

I'll go with Tampa in 4 guessing that Ricky will blow.

[bbor]

DiPietro is our goalie - if he's on his game, he's as good as Turco or Brodeur.

Here lies the rub...Dipietro may be as good as Broduer when he is on his game...BUT...Brodeur is on his game more than 95%of the games he plays in...where Dipietro may only be on his game 50% of the time.

Comparing Dipietro to one of the all time greats at this stage of his career is a bit premature.IMHO.

[primelord]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

I'll go with the Blues on this one, I have no idea why.

I think it is because you secretly have blue blood pumping through those veins! You feel that strong call of good trying to draw ou away from the evil red meneace. I have faith you can till be saved HB.

[RPI-Fan]

Originally Posted by bbor

DiPietro is our goalie - if he's on his game, he's as good as Turco or Brodeur.

Here lies the rub...Dipietro may be as good as Broduer when he is on his game...BUT...Brodeur is on his game more than 95%of the games he plays in...where Dipietro may only be on his game 50% of the time.

Comparing Dipietro to one of the all time greats at this stage of his career is a bit premature.IMHO.

Could I have not made it more clear that DiPietro is extremely inconsistent?!?!

Did you even read everything I wrote?