EA Sport "NFL HEAD COACH"

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by Chubby

what system is this for? pc/360/ps2?

According to Gamespot, it will be on the PC, PS2, and Xbox.

[Antmeister]

Does anyone know if Jim is really working behind the scenes for this game? I would be in tears if this is a graphical overlay to FOF with additional options.

[stevew]

That preview piques my interest. Although I'll probably still wait for impressions here/rent it first maybe.

[stevew]

My prediction is that this is the game that most of us dream about. It'll be nearly perfect but have some flaws, that while not showstoppers will be annoying. We'll anticipate the next version, but the EA fanbase will do a collective yawn to the title and it'll be either one and done, or last 2 versions. And damn, i wish Sega would port the 2K5 football to PC. Maybe fix it up a touch. Then we could have Maximum Customizability!

[AgustusM]

all we are asking for is FOF realism and detail with Madden graphics.

My only concern is EA concentrating on nonsense like "add Deion to the offense" and not getting the core realism correct.

The thing that most encourages me is "one level of play". If the game is realistic the concept of levels of play (rookie, all-star, etc) and sliders simply don't apply.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by AgustusM

all we are asking for is FOF realism and detail with Madden graphics.

I guess Jim and/or Arlie could jump in here and address this, but I have a feeling this "wish" is harder to acheive than most people realize. I don't know to what level of detail games like FOF and TPF go to in calculating all that happens in a particular play in their sims, but I have my doubts that they are as intricate and granular in detail as what would be necessary to drive a full 3-D graphical representation like you see in Madden or 2K Sports.

Think about it - they have ratings for various categories of player ability and particular ways of calculating what the end result of any play would be, but are they so detailed that they describe a player juking to his left to dodge an OLB pinching in from the outside, then using a particular kind of stiffarm move to knock a CB on his ass before being forced out of bounds at a particular point because of the speed and angle that the FS had on the play? It's possible, but I doubt either sim goes into that much granularity of detail. And yet, that's what you'd need to drive a 3-D graphical representation (of every player on the field no less), and it's why people complain that Madden (and the other 3-D football games) aren't as realistic in their outcomes as the text-sims - it's levels of magnitude more complex to model AI and physical attributes well enough to represent it in a graphical format that has to come close to matching watching a game live on TV than it is to devise formulas to derive realistic results in a text-sim where you don't actually see the play unfolding or extreme detail in exactly what happened on each play.

Maybe I'm off-base here in my assessments of the current text-sims, and if I am I'd welcome Jim or Arlie correcting me, but I have my doubts that their sim engines provide enough information to drive a full 3-D graphical representation.

[Antmeister]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

I guess Jim and/or Arlie could jump in here and address this, but I have a feeling this "wish" is harder to acheive than most people realize. I don't know to what level of detail games like FOF and TPF go to in calculating all that happens in a particular play in their sims, but I have my doubts that they are as intricate and granular in detail as what would be necessary to drive a full 3-D graphical representation like you see in Madden or 2K Sports.

Think about it - they have ratings for various categories of player ability and particular ways of calculating what the end result of any play would be, but are they so detailed that they describe a player juking to his left to dodge an OLB pinching in from the outside, then using a particular kind of stiffarm move to knock a CB on his ass before being forced out of bounds at a particular point because of the speed and angle that the FS had on the play? It's possible, but I doubt either sim goes into that much granularity of detail. And yet, that's what you'd need to drive a 3-D graphical representation (of every player on the field no less), and it's why people complain that Madden (and the other 3-D football games) aren't as realistic in their outcomes as the text-sims - it's levels of magnitude more complex to model AI and physical attributes well enough to represent it in a graphical format that has to come close to matching watching a game live on TV than it is to devise formulas to derive realistic results in a text-sim where you don't actually see the play unfolding or extreme detail in exactly what happened on each play.

Maybe I'm off-base here in my assessments of the current text-sims, and if I am I'd welcome Jim or Arlie correcting me, but I have my doubts that their sim engines provide enough information to drive a full 3-D graphical representation.

For Madden, yes that wouldn't be doable, since people are playing with a joystick. In other words, a person's actions determine how a play turns out.

For this game however, the output is coming from the stats. If FOF had a sim engine underneath that, the result would determine how the action is played on the field. In other words, if the sim engine would say that there was a 15 yard rushing gain off the right guard, the graphics would simply be used as showing how to show it and it could have a number of creative ways to show how this person gained 15 yards off the right guard.

FOF would already determine the success/failure of a play before it is shown. The job of the overlay is to come up with creative ways to show that success or failure. So let's say that a running back has above average strength, but poor agility. If the FOF sim engine says he went 15 yards and he was tackled by a slow linebacker, it could show this running back running behind some successful blocks as he bowls over a few people along the way.

I am not saying this will be the easiest task, but it is doable. It is just a whole different way of thinking.

[Deattribution]

This will probably be an egg, If it's anything like this year's superstar/heisman system they implemented into Madden/NCAA iit will be terrible - you wouldn't even know they tested either of those games.

On the positive side, this would be a great year for Jim to release a new FOF so that he could get some of the potential new fan base that comes along with this game.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by Antmeister71

For Madden, yes that wouldn't be doable, since people are playing with a joystick. In other words, a person's actions determine how a play turns out.

For this game however, the output is coming from the stats. If FOF had a sim engine underneath that, the result would determine how the action is played on the field. In other words, if the sim engine would say that there was a 15 yard rushing gain off the right guard, the graphics would simply be used as showing how to show it and it could have a number of creative ways to show how this person gained 15 yards off the right guard.

FOF would already determine the success/failure of a play before it is shown. The job of the overlay is to come up with creative ways to show that success or failure. So let's say that a running back has above average strength, but poor agility. If the FOF sim engine says he went 15 yards and he was tackled by a slow linebacker, it could show this running back running behind some successful blocks as he bowls over a few people along the way.

I am not saying this will be the easiest task, but it is doable. It is just a whole different way of thinking.

My point remains - you're underestimating how difficult this would be to program from an AI perspective. If the sim engine doesn't provide that level of granularity in the play result, then an AI has to be written to interpret it and fill in all the details for all 22 players on the field, and do so in a way that doesn't look completely stupid (consider the grief the animations in Maximum Football have gotten). Writing an AI that can fill in all those blanks isn't at all an easy task - from what I know of that discipline of programming, I think it could be done if you threw enough engineers at the issue, but it would never happen because there's no way such a game could sell nearly enough copies to cover the expense of all those programmers needed to create it.

It is levels of magnitude easier to write a sim engine that calculates the outcome in text and numbers based on various factors vs. describing such an outcome in enough detail to drive a realistic 3-D representation of such (what did each of the blocking interactions look like? How exactly did that RB move? How exactly did those LB's and DB's react in reading the play?)

[Solecismic]

It's not that black and white, dawgfan.

Some of the finest minds in the programming world are tackling the issue of how we walk. Only in the last few years have robots been developed that walk like we do.

There are collision and reaction algorithms for walking and rolling robots that allow them to maneuver in increasingly large worlds. Some of that is trickling into our domain, like vacuum robots.

Madden is a fine achievement. But it is not intended to do anything more than simulate movement in a very rough manner. It's just a few shades of grey closer to real football, and its algorithms make assumptions about football, just like the most simplistic 3-D programs and text sims which just say "I know my guard took on your linebacker with a block, and he was successful, so my running back gained more yardage."

If you want to go into specific realistic blocking interactions, we are a long, long way from getting that done. Do Madden offensive linemen, much like sumo wrestlers, maintain a successful pass block by being better at keeping a constant low center of gravity than their peers? Or is success of a pass block simply a die roll based on ratings, like what I do?

I couldn't disagree more about the concept that throwing enough engineers at a project ensures its success. That's what managers at corporations do, and it doesn't work in practice. It takes a long time to get up to speed with code, and some projects are best suited for one person or a small group.

[MIJB#19]

Originally Posted by SFL Cat

That has always been the case in NFL Europe. Since soccer was so big over there, it was the NFL's way of "pumping up" the importance of the kicking game.

Possibly, but in the end they did the soccer-football crossover differently. Every team was required to have a former soccer player to do PAT and short field goal duties, while a 'real' kicker would handle 30+ yards field goals.



More on topic, what Antmeister describes is similar to what a couple of the older soccer sims already had about 10 years ago. There were games with preset 'movies' to show as the highlights of a game. 'Movies' presenting the actions preceding a shot wide or saved looked so similar to the goal 'movies', it was almost impossible to tell what the outcome would be while watching the game unfold. It's basically what Ant's asking for, but he wants it in fancy Madden 2006 graphics. But that would mean making two inconsistent chunks of code, instead of creating logic of how a game plays out.

Originally Posted by AugustusM

My only concern is EA concentrating on nonsense like "add Deion to the offense" and not getting the core realism correct.

I think things like that are so easy to code compared to the football game engine, it can be a welcome change of work for coders and gives the customers some added fun.

[Yossarian]

Every team was required to have a former soccer player to do PAT and short field goal duties

Actually it was a little more subtle.

Each NFLEU team has to have a number of national players (where national != american).

Every other offenseive and every other defensive series needs to have a national on the field at all times.

Similarly, field goals under a certain distance (30yrds?) and pat's are done by national kicker.

For the claymores, they had ex-rugby guy Gavin Hastings kick for a while.

[fantastic flying froggies]

ah good ol' Gavin Hastings, my favorite Scottish rugby player! What a class act he was!

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

Saw this preview on Gamespot and my cautious optimism grows a bit more. I like the idea of dynamic ratings and of course, I've always wanted a great coach mode for Madden in which I could call plays and get realistic results. Maybe this will deliver. Here is the preview:

NFL Head Coach First Look


We stalk the sidelines in our hands-on look at EA's NFL strategy sim.
All off-field activities in Head Coach are calendar-based; you usually have three or four activities to attend to per calendar day. Your morning might be spent going over e-mails and fielding phone calls, while later in the day you'll head to a staff meeting with your coaches, head back to your desk for a meeting with your scouting coach, and then end the day looking at your salary cap numbers and figuring out just how you're going to find the cash to pay for that upcoming first-round draft pick. As the free-agent signing period begins, you'll want to make sure you have your eye on who's available to sign to fill holes in your roster, and, of course, you'll want to make sure you're always up on the latest scouting reports in preparation for the draft. Weekly meetings with your scouting coach help things here, as do handy search filters that let you search among draft players along criteria such as position and skill level.

The NFL Draft itself gives you a seat in your own personal war room as you watch draft picks fly off the board. You can choose to run the draft in an approximation of real time (each CPU-controlled team has 30 seconds to make a pick, while you have a full five minutes), or you can choose to skip directly to your next pick. ESPN's Mel Kiper is also on hand to run down the top draft picks and provide analysis of each and every pick you make. If he doesn't like your pick, you'll know about it.
As the regular season approaches and your roster begins to settle down, you can run your players through a series of practice drills, which are designed not only to help your players improve, but also to give you a better picture of their abilities. Unlike in Madden, player ratings are dynamic in NFL Head Coach, and any particular player has a range in which he can perform. The overall attribute of a volatile player, such as Michael Vick, for example, might fluctuate from the low 70s on a bad day to the mid-90s on a day when everything is going his way. It's an interesting concept that takes into consideration each player's potential for greatness, as well as failure.

As you can tell, there is a lot to do in Head Coach's off-season, but that's only part of the equation. After all, preparation wins games, but you still have to play things out on the field. When coaching a game in Head Coach, you'll be watching the game as you might a regular game of Madden, with some crucial differences. One of the biggest changes is the available camera angles. We counted six available cameras in the game (though that number may change in the final build)--from traditional behind-the-QB looks, to sideline cameras (complete with your coaching avatar roaming up and down the sidelines), to our personal favorite, a high-vantage-point, top-down look at the field, showing the offensive and defensive formations with perfect clarity.

Perhaps it goes without saying, but in Head Coach, you're responsible for calling the plays (which you can do with either standard controls or via voice commands using a headset) and snapping the ball. Once the play begins, the game is more or less out of your hands. Before the ball is snapped, however, you can do things like call audibles and change protection coverage, but you'll have only a small window of time to make that happen (that is, before the play clock runs down or your opponent snaps the ball). However, your responsibilities in-game go a bit deeper than simply calling the play and watching how things unfold on the grass. At any point in the game, you can choose to talk to the players on the sideline to provide either strategic advice or specific motivation (and by "motivation" we mean a good dressing down). The amount of depth here is impressive--if you choose to talk to your quarterbacks, for example, you can choose to talk to either the entire group or to one particular QB. From there you can choose specific areas of focus to discuss, such as pass height, patience in the pocket, whether to focus on the number one receiver or spread the ball around, and so on--you can even tell your QB to take your advice to heart for the next play, the next drive, or the rest of the game.

This kind of coaching depth is available for every position on the field and will ensure that you will be very busy on the sidelines. Even better, as you hold these impromptu coaching sessions, your assistant coaches will take over play calling and the game will continue progressing. You can then choose to take back the reins at any time. Another factor weighs into the mix here: trust. How much your players trust you will determine how willing they are to follow your orders and how positively (or negatively) they respond to your motivation.

In practice, we found that the amount of time split between calling plays and coaching players on the sideline was about 70/30--depending on the results we were getting on the field. If our team was blowing it, of course, we spent a good deal more time trying to coax good performances out of them; if we had the game well in hand, it was simply a matter of calling smart plays and winding the clock down.

Head Coach will feature only one difficulty level, pitting your strategic football mind against the artificial intelligence or against a buddy online. The game will have some interaction with the next version of Madden, mainly by letting you export your current Head Coach team into Madden; certainly it would be nice to see more synergy between the two games, but perhaps that's an issue best left for future iterations of Head Coach.
By blending the in-depth details of traditional management sims with the familiar look of the Madden game engine, EA Sports is looking to craft NFL Head Coach into a management sim that is quite a bit different from the stat- and text-intensive Championship Managers of the world. The real challenge will be in delivering a game that is approachable enough for folks who have perhaps outgrown the "twitchier" aspects of Madden, while still providing NFL fanatics with an interesting--and, more importantly, authentic--twist to their favorite sport. Head Coach is due for release in June 2006.

That just sounds too good. It has got to suck for it to sound that good.

[Raiders Army]

Another hands-on preview:

http://xbox.ign.com/articles/699/699404p1.html

Mel Kiper recorded info on 40 draft classes. That's insane.

[Bee]

Best line from the preview:

"

You got Mel in the game?" Corso said. "How'd you get his hair to fit on the screen?"

[Eaglesfan27]

Did I read that preview correctly? They are going to let you create plays as well? My cautious optimism is growing.

[stevew]

Why exactly isnt this on the 360. I doubt it will be backwards compatable either, which totally sucks.

[ice4277]

I am starting to get a little nervous. I am getting more and more excited for this, which only means the letdown will be that much greater.

[MizzouRah]

Why can't this be on the psp?

[Bee]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

My cautious optimism is growing.

You should see a doctor about that...

[MalcPow]

Originally Posted by ice4277

I am starting to get a little nervous. I am getting more and more excited for this, which only means the letdown will be that much greater.

This is exactly how I'm feeling, a sort of sick internal interplay between naive excitement and cynical pessimism. I can't wait until we get closer to a release and my boyish optimism and condescending sarcasm grind my life to a halt with an epicly navel-gazing battle in my own mind!

[Raiders Army]

Originally Posted by MalcPow

This is exactly how I'm feeling, a sort of sick internal interplay between naive excitement and cynical pessimism. I can't wait until we get closer to a release and my boyish optimism and condescending sarcasm grind my life to a halt with an epicly navel-gazing battle in my own mind!

Why was QOTM taken away?

[John Galt]

Joe Stallings is reading this thread. I feel a chill down my spine.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by John Galt

Joe Stallings is reading this thread. I feel a chill down my spine.

I've been wandering for a few minutes if he will post in it.

[Eaglesfan27]

Delayed Dola,

So, work is VERY slow today and the last hour or so at work is dragging. I decided to visit Operation Sports. They mention quite a few things that are definitely increasing my desire to check this out:

- QB's now have accuracy ratings for short, intermediate, and long throws. QB's have a rating for accuracy while throwing on the run. There are other new ratings as well.

- The previewer told Lynch to go for big hits because the Broncos were down late, and he noticed that Lynch played differently and made more mistakes but did make one big hit.

- Similarly, he told Bailey to gamble for picks more and he noticed a change in the manner in which Bailey was covering his guy.

- Many options when talking to the QB including: Throw it to the #1 receiver more, scramble more, stay in the pocket more, focus on throwing it underneath, throw it quickly, etc.

Assistants are fully licensed (each team has their real coaches when you start the game - unless the coach isn't in the union such as Bill Parcells) and include: Offensive Coordinator, Defensive Coordinator, Special Teams Coach, QB Coach, RB Coach, WR Coach, TE Coach, Offensive Line Coach, Defensive Line Coach, Linebackers Coach, and DB Coach!

- No Sliders! No difficulty levels. The game is just supposed to be calibrated for realistic stats by the time it is released.

A few negatives:

- "I don't believe they are trying to be in depth as Front Office Football or Championship Manager."

- Stat tracking isn't as deep as most text sims.

[Senator]

Originally Posted by MalcPow

This is exactly how I'm feeling, a sort of sick internal interplay between naive excitement and cynical pessimism. I can't wait until we get closer to a release and my boyish optimism and condescending sarcasm grind my life to a halt with an epicly navel-gazing battle in my own mind!

Well said, my friend.

This game is on my "to be determined" radar. Screaming into a headset at my quarterback sounds almost liberating.

[Greyroofoo]

http://pc.ign.com/articles/699/699431p2.html

THE COLTS O-LINE COACH IS HOWARD MUDD NOT HOWARD BUTTER

[ice4277]

Originally Posted by Greyroofoo

http://pc.ign.com/articles/699/699431p2.html

THE COLTS O-LINE COACH IS HOWARD MUDD NOT HOWARD BUTTER

Did you not read the part about non-licensed coaches?

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

Delayed Dola,

So, work is VERY slow today and the last hour or so at work is dragging. I decided to visit Operation Sports. They mention quite a few things that are definitely increasing my desire to check this out:

- QB's now have accuracy ratings for short, intermediate, and long throws. QB's have a rating for accuracy while throwing on the run. There are other new ratings as well.

- The previewer told Lynch to go for big hits because the Broncos were down late, and he noticed that Lynch played differently and made more mistakes but did make one big hit.

- Similarly, he told Bailey to gamble for picks more and he noticed a change in the manner in which Bailey was covering his guy.

- Many options when talking to the QB including: Throw it to the #1 receiver more, scramble more, stay in the pocket more, focus on throwing it underneath, throw it quickly, etc.

Assistants are fully licensed (each team has their real coaches when you start the game - unless the coach isn't in the union such as Bill Parcells) and include: Offensive Coordinator, Defensive Coordinator, Special Teams Coach, QB Coach, RB Coach, WR Coach, TE Coach, Offensive Line Coach, Defensive Line Coach, Linebackers Coach, and DB Coach!

- No Sliders! No difficulty levels. The game is just supposed to be calibrated for realistic stats by the time it is released.

A few negatives:

- "I don't believe they are trying to be in depth as Front Office Football or Championship Manager."

- Stat tracking isn't as deep as most text sims.

I'm going to be such a fan-boy if they can get this right. The big question is how big will the bugs be? It is EA, so you know there are going to be bugs (both on the computer and console versions), so it is just a matter of if they will be gamestoppers are not. My guess is there will be at least one that will be super annoying and never fixed. Like O-linemen getting a billion pancakes and over-developing, or not getting any and not developing at all.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

I'm going to be such a fan-boy if they can get this right. The big question is how big will the bugs be? It is EA, so you know there are going to be bugs (both on the computer and console versions), so it is just a matter of if they will be gamestoppers are not. My guess is there will be at least one that will be super annoying and never fixed. Like O-linemen getting a billion pancakes and over-developing, or not getting any and not developing at all.

I agree with all points. My optimism is growing and will probably be crushed by one of those super annoying bugs.

[Surtt]

I hope I am wrong, but I really have little hope for this.
I don't think we (the text sim community) are the target market for this, it is the current madden players. The type who just want an ubber team and would scream bloody murder if a #1 pick went bust. Going by the madden franchise mode, it will not be realistic or offer much of a challenge.
After saying that, I'm sure I will buy it anyway

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Surtt

I hope I am wrong, but I really have little hope for this.
I don't think we (the text sim community) are the target market for this, it is the current madden players. The type who just want an ubber team and would scream bloody murder if a #1 pick went bust. Going by the madden franchise mode, it will not be realistic or offer much of a challenge.
After saying that, I'm sure I will buy it anyway

I actually think it's more of a "middle ground" thing. My guess it is made for older Madden players whose button-mashing skills are behind them and need more of an intellectual challenge. It may not be directly marketed to the text-based crowd, as in the "give me spreadsheets or give me death!" kind of person who is more interested in stats than the actual game. But I do think it is for guys like me. I like stats, but the actual games are more important to me. Simming through 10 seasons a night bores me. I want to see the games, and make a real impact on them. I want to see the players on the field, and what I tell them to do to make an impact (positive and negative) on the field. The idea that this might happen excites me to no end.

This game is going to market right to the old FBPro crowd that has been without representation (well, except for the travesty which is Maximum Football) for many, many years. Please Joe, don't let this suck.

[FBPro]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

I actually think it's more of a "middle ground" thing. My guess it is made for older Madden players whose button-mashing skills are behind them and need more of an intellectual challenge. It may not be directly marketed to the text-based crowd, as in the "give me spreadsheets or give me death!" kind of person who is more interested in stats than the actual game. But I do think it is for guys like me. I like stats, but the actual games are more important to me. Simming through 10 seasons a night bores me. I want to see the games, and make a real impact on them. I want to see the players on the field, and what I tell them to do to make an impact (positive and negative) on the field. The idea that this might happen excites me to no end.

This game is going to market right to the old FBPro crowd that has been without representation (well, except for the travesty which is Maximum Football) for many, many years. Please Joe, don't let this suck.

This is along the lines of what I am thinking as well.......(again, I sense that my sn is being taken is vain) Looking forward to this one and will likely get it on day one(UNLESS I can resist).

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

I actually think it's more of a "middle ground" thing. My guess it is made for older Madden players whose button-mashing skills are behind them and need more of an intellectual challenge. It may not be directly marketed to the text-based crowd, as in the "give me spreadsheets or give me death!" kind of person who is more interested in stats than the actual game. But I do think it is for guys like me. I like stats, but the actual games are more important to me. Simming through 10 seasons a night bores me. I want to see the games, and make a real impact on them. I want to see the players on the field, and what I tell them to do to make an impact (positive and negative) on the field. The idea that this might happen excites me to no end.

This game is going to market right to the old FBPro crowd that has been without representation (well, except for the travesty which is Maximum Football) for many, many years. Please Joe, don't let this suck.

This is what I'm thinking as well.

[RawIsDan]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

This game is going to market right to the old FBPro crowd that has been without representation (well, except for the travesty which is Maximum Football) for many, many years. Please Joe, don't let this suck.

Exactly my viewpoint.

[ice4277]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

I like stats, but the actual games are more important to me. Simming through 10 seasons a night bores me. I want to see the games, and make a real impact on them. I want to see the players on the field, and what I tell them to do to make an impact (positive and negative) on the field.

Ditto. I like to feel like I am actually a part of the game world, not just some guy reading through stats.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

It's not that black and white, dawgfan.

Some of the finest minds in the programming world are tackling the issue of how we walk. Only in the last few years have robots been developed that walk like we do.

There are collision and reaction algorithms for walking and rolling robots that allow them to maneuver in increasingly large worlds. Some of that is trickling into our domain, like vacuum robots.

Madden is a fine achievement. But it is not intended to do anything more than simulate movement in a very rough manner. It's just a few shades of grey closer to real football, and its algorithms make assumptions about football, just like the most simplistic 3-D programs and text sims which just say "I know my guard took on your linebacker with a block, and he was successful, so my running back gained more yardage."

If you want to go into specific realistic blocking interactions, we are a long, long way from getting that done. Do Madden offensive linemen, much like sumo wrestlers, maintain a successful pass block by being better at keeping a constant low center of gravity than their peers? Or is success of a pass block simply a die roll based on ratings, like what I do?

Obviously you know your code far better than I do, and I'm making some assumptions here. But also realize that the interactions that happen in Madden are a little more complex than just "dice rolls" - being a 3D game, every interaction caculation is also involving proximity. That LG may be winning his battle with the RDT and driving him backward, but if the ball-carrier comes within range of that interaction the calculations of that blocking interaction change to allow the RDT a chance to break off the block to make the tackle.

Now, I may be wrong on this, but I suspect that your sim doesn't actually calculate exactly where the ball and every player on the field are at all times but is making more generalized predictions of probably outcomes given the input of play type preferences and the ability ratings of the players on the field at that time. Does your sim provide enough information to drive the level of detail you see in action in a 3D football game like Madden (flawed though that action can look at times)?

I couldn't disagree more about the concept that throwing enough engineers at a project ensures its success. That's what managers at corporations do, and it doesn't work in practice. It takes a long time to get up to speed with code, and some projects are best suited for one person or a small group.

I'm not so sure that we're really disagreeing here. I'm not suggesting it's a good idea to throw a bunch of software engineers at the issue of AI coding - as I said, such an attempt would undoubtedly fail miserably financially. I didn't mean to imply that putting enough engineers on the issue would result in truly successful AI modeling, though I'm sure that we'd see a marked improvement over what's currently on the market; an even better bet for success in this area would be giving a few really smart AI programmers a much longer time to work on their algorithms than the current sports game market provides (i.e. new revs every year).

[IwasHere]

Will this game support multi player?

[AgustusM]

Trying to not to get my hopes too high, less I be massively disappointed - but the latest review has me harder then chinese math!

starting before the draft
create you own plays
no slider, or levels - thus the implication of "real" results
madden level graphics

I have honestly never had more anticipation for a video game ever. I might need to take a week off when this is released.

[stevew]

One thing that struck me was that there are supposedly only 40 different draft classes that Kiper does commentary for. If that means that there are only 40 different possibilities, then this game could be very underwhelming. Hopefully they mix the classes up some, and hopefully there is a variance on the players meaning one time a guy is a star, and another time not so much. Still, I'm hesitantly excited, and will probably give this a shot.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by stevew

One thing that struck me was that there are supposedly only 40 different draft classes that Kiper does commentary for. If that means that there are only 40 different possibilities, then this game could be very underwhelming. Hopefully they mix the classes up some, and hopefully there is a variance on the players meaning one time a guy is a star, and another time not so much. Still, I'm hesitantly excited, and will probably give this a shot.

40 draft classes=40 year career cap

which IMO should be plenty, especially with the on-field depth. i rarely get through 10 years of madden careers, and even my longest ever FOF career is only like 56 years.

[MJ4H]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

40 draft classes=40 year career cap

which IMO should be plenty, especially with the on-field depth. i rarely get through 10 years of madden careers, and even my longest ever FOF career is only like 56 years.

Yeah the number is plenty, but what I'm worried about is if they are preset. Then you will have potential spoilers from others to avoid, not to mention zero-replay value at all. It would be cool if you could turn that feature off and just have random draft classes without kiper's input or some generic descriptions or something, but I am worried about the scripted draft classes. Lots of other things in this have me excited, I would be disappointed if something like this nearly ruins it.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by MattJones4Heisman

Yeah the number is plenty, but what I'm worried about is if they are preset. Then you will have potential spoilers from others to avoid, not to mention zero-replay value at all. It would be cool if you could turn that feature off and just have random draft classes without kiper's input or some generic descriptions or something, but I am worried about the scripted draft classes. Lots of other things in this have me excited, I would be disappointed if something like this nearly ruins it.

oh i see what you mean, because then anytime you get to a certain year you know the draft class outcome.

i THINK ea is smart enough to avoid that. that's never been a problem for Madden. What I assume that means is that Kiper recorded script for 40 draft classes worth of players, or 40 draft classes worth of generic scripts that can be mixed and matched.

like i said, it's never been a problem in madden so i wouldn't think it'd be a problem here....but who knows

[mrsimperless]

I too am highly anticipating this game after reading the previews. If done even halfway decently this game could be the game of my dreams. I think the graphical side of playing the games will really add to the immersion. Holding my breath...

I do hope they've revamped the contract system a bit. I play madden with a buddy where we each control a franchise during franchise mode and then play 2 divisional games against each other every year. Its waaaay too easy to cheat.

Addressing one of the questions above I did read something about the draft classes being "dynamic" meaning that players won't always progress the same. (Cmon, just call it X-factor EA!)

Has anyone heard anything about multiplayer? (Not on xbox live...)

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by stevew

One thing that struck me was that there are supposedly only 40 different draft classes that Kiper does commentary for. If that means that there are only 40 different possibilities, then this game could be very underwhelming. Hopefully they mix the classes up some, and hopefully there is a variance on the players meaning one time a guy is a star, and another time not so much. Still, I'm hesitantly excited, and will probably give this a shot.

It sounds like it is the same class each time from the previews I've read. The 2007 class will always be the same. However, if a game takes 45 minutes to play out (which I'm assuming it will since Madden usually takes at least that long) there is plenty of action packed into a 40 year career.

[SegRat]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

Why can't this be on the psp?

That would be so wonderful.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

It sounds like it is the same class each time from the previews I've read. The 2007 class will always be the same. However, if a game takes 45 minutes to play out (which I'm assuming it will since Madden usually takes at least that long) there is plenty of action packed into a 40 year career.

. and if the game is $50 that's still...just over $1 a year. which is quite good value if a year takes you...20 hours of gameplay - conservative estimate (let's just say...45 minutes a game x 16 games + assorted non-game tasks).

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

. and if the game is $50 that's still...just over $1 a year. which is quite good value if a year takes you...20 hours of gameplay - conservative estimate (let's just say...45 minutes a game x 16 games + assorted non-game tasks).

I'm still a little disappointed, but it won't be too bad if there is some randomness to how the players develop.

[ice4277]

I don't think I would come close to hitting a dozen seasons, much less forty.