*World Cup Game Discussion Thread* (SPOILERS)

[MIJB#19]

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

By the way, I still think Van Basten is nuts for leaving out Seedorf and Makaay. Seedorf seems to think (or at least seems to hint) that there was a racial element to that, which is an old problem in Dutch squads (right ? between the Surinam born players and the Dutch born ?)

The racial stuff is total bullshit. Seedorf has played 77 caps and played like 5 good games. He's a good soccer player, but as Van Basten says, the AC Milan coach uses Seedorf in a way none of the Dutch team's roles are designed. Seedorf simply isn't made for Dutch style soccer. It's too bad, but it's just the way things are. He knows it, we all know it. He got like 50 chances to prove his qualities. The reaction overhere towards him are always over the top, but when you don't fit in the system, you don't belong on the team.

Concerning Makaay, I don't agree with it either, but given Van Basten's plans it makes sense. He wanted two players for every position and didn't want three central strikers. Somehow he wanted Vennegoor of Hesselink instead of Makaay or Huntelaar. But he wasn't going to start anyway with Van Nistelrooij around. But all in all, Makaay should have been the #2 I think.

[cartman]

It's easy for Cambiasso to get lost in the shuffle at Inter, because of all the big names that come and go there. Figo, Ronaldo, Vieri, Walter Samuel, etc. If I'm not mistaken, this is Cambiasso's second time around with the Nerazzuri.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by tanglewood

Rumors have been swirling in England for the last two weeks that Alex Ferguson is VERY interested in Riquelme. Of course, I seem to remember him paying big money for a word class Argentine playmaker before...

oh shit. riquelme in that team with that kind of talent around him would be DANGEROUS

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by tanglewood

Rumors have been swirling in England for the last two weeks that Alex Ferguson is VERY interested in Riquelme. Of course, I seem to remember him paying big money for a word class Argentine playmaker before...

Heh - exactly. Fergie isn't going to build his system around one man - Keane probably came closest.

[AlexB]

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

By the way, I still think Van Basten is nuts for leaving out Seedorf and Makaay. Seedorf seems to think (or at least seems to hint) that there was a racial element to that, which is an old problem in Dutch squads (right ? between the Surinam born players and the Dutch born ?)

I'm sure MIJB will give a more definitive answer, but I think Seedorf was one of the main reasons behind the consistent disharmony in Dutch squads in past tourneys (along with Davids & Kluivert). Think TO, Sapp & Randy Moss all on the same team

Edit: MIJB already did

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by MIJB#19

The racial stuff is total bullshit. Seedorf has played 77 caps and played like 5 good games. He's a good soccer player, but as Van Basten says, the AC Milan coach uses Seedorf in a way none of the Dutch team's roles are designed. Seedorf simply isn't made for Dutch style soccer. It's too bad, but it's just the way things are. He knows it, we all know it. He got like 50 chances to prove his qualities. The reaction overhere towards him are always over the top, but when you don't fit in the system, you don't belong on the team.

Concerning Makaay, I don't agree with it either, but given Van Basten's plans it makes sense. He wanted two players for every position and didn't want three central strikers. Somehow he wanted Vennegoor of Hesselink instead of Makaay or Huntelaar. But he wasn't going to start anyway with Van Nistelrooij around. But all in all, Makaay should have been the #2 I think.

No offense intended - its just one of the explanations I've heard for Dutch strife in the past, not there are any shortage of reasons. It just seems perverse to leave the guy who's probably the second best Dutch midfielder (after Van Der Vaart) instead of adapting him to your system. Also, you know more than me on this, but Seedorf did get his start at Ajax and was pretty good there - moreover, Van Basten (from all the reports I read) has shifted away from "Dutch" football to a more defensive system. Again, I'm curious as much as anything.

[AlexB]

Just to add, Seedorf is one of those players I just don't get. I don't see him play too much, but every time I have he has been ordinary. Unspectacular. Decidedly average. And yet I think I'm right in saying he's the only player to have won the CL with three different teams, so he must have something I just can't see...

[MIJB#19]

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

No offense intended - its just one of the explanations I've heard for Dutch strife in the past, not there are any shortage of reasons. It just seems perverse to leave the guy who's probably the second best Dutch midfielder (after Van Der Vaart) instead of adapting him to your system. Also, you know more than me on this, but Seedorf did get his start at Ajax and was pretty good there - moreover, Van Basten (from all the reports I read) has shifted away from "Dutch" football to a more defensive system. Again, I'm curious as much as anything.

Sorry for the use of "bullshit", but it applies to anyone who thinks racism is the reason for the non-selection of Seedorf. It wasn't ment to you personally, but it's getting annoying how that keeps coming up. Jari Rantanen's Shorts post above is dead on, Seedorf has some myths around his performance and this national coach decided to avoid the trouble and keep Seedorf out. In the end, with guys like Van der Vaart, Cocu, Van Bommel, Sneijder, Landzaat and Maduro at his disposal, it's easier to ignore Seedorf and leave Davids out.

Your assesment of Van Basten's style is right. This dutch team didn't use the score-more-goals mentality in the qualification round, it used the allow-less-goals mentality. For the finals, he's again employing a more defensive version of the "Dutch" football, however, it will still be close, with three midfielders rotating as assistance to the three attackers. And the three attackers will be two traditional wingers (Robben, Van Persie) and a classic goalscorer (Van Nistelrooij). From what I've seen, there isn't much different from past seasons, except for the absence of a playmaker behind the striker. But to be realistic, we don't have a world class player to play that role and since Johan Cruijff retiredin the early 80's, only Dennis Bergkamp was able to play there.

[Northwood_DK]

You just got to love Zlatan Ibrahimovic. After the game he had the following comment: If that’s their #2 goalkeeper (Hislop) I wonder how good the #1 is?

[VPI97]

I have to admire the Dutch fans. I'm sitting in Amsterdam's Schiphol airport at 8:30am local time and half the people here are wearing orange. Nice to see so much support for a team.

[MIJB#19]

Originally Posted by VPI97

I have to admire the Dutch fans. I'm sitting in Amsterdam's Schiphol airport at 8:30am local time and half the people here are wearing orange. Nice to see so much support for a team.

You can bet half the country (if not more than 50%) will be watching today's game. And I'll be wearing orange too today.

[MIJB#19]

Less than 15 minutes until kickoff. :o
I hope Joris Mathijsen can show he's good enough, he's the only player I'm a little bit worried about of being able to play at the top level. As a man from Maassluis, maybe I should be rooting for the hometown boy Khalid Boulahrouz in the lineup, but him being there is neat enough already.

[MIJB#19]

Am I the only one watching Netherlands-Serbia (& the keeper from Montenegro)?

[Critch]

Netherlands have looked pretty good (except for the orange overdose), but Serbia have still had their chances especially down the wings. Robben has looked good in flashes, good omen for the rest of the competition.

Kezman and Milosevic must have been playing internationals together for years, but they look like they've only just met, couple of times they just got in each others way.

[3ric]

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

Heh - exactly. Fergie isn't going to build his system around one man - Keane probably came closest.

Riquelme isn't too keen on going to England, from what I've read - he's wary of what happened to his countryman Veron in United. He's likely to have more defensive responsibility there, which Barcelona tried - it didn't work out at all.

[MIJB#19]

Originally Posted by Critch

Netherlands have looked pretty good (except for the orange overdose), but Serbia have still had their chances especially down the wings. Robben has looked good in flashes, good omen for the rest of the competition.

Kezman and Milosevic must have been playing internationals together for years, but they look like they've only just met, couple of times they just got in each others way.

I'm not so convinced we got what it takes to survive this group, yet. Taking the 3 points is crucial, but a draw to Ivory Coast would still require them to not win the last game or us to not lose to Argentina. The defense looked suspect at times, even though we didn't allow a goal. On the other hand, getting both strikers replaced from the opponent should count for the defense.

Robben was magnificent, if you'd ask me. If only Van Nistelrooij and Van Persie can come a little bit closer to Robben's form, we'll be in great shape to have the fire power up front to score against any defense in this tournament.

[MIJB#19]

Nobody's watching Mexico-Iran? It's fun game to watch so far!

[sovereignstar]

Originally Posted by MIJB#19

Nobody's watching Mexico-Iran? It's fun game to watch so far!

I would be if it wasn't for local church programming.

[Joe]

I'm watching, good so far.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by MIJB#19

Nobody's watching Mexico-Iran? It's fun game to watch so far!

I am, and agree it is a fun match. Mexico really needs to find a goal soon.

[Eaglesfan27]

Terrible play by the Iranian defender and keeper.

[Joe]

great goal by mex

[GrantDawg]

There it is.

[Joe]

and again. nice header

[GrantDawg]

And insurance.

[Eaglesfan27]

THAT was an awesome goal. Mexico in control now.

[Cringer]

I can't believe it took them so long to put a shot up of a fan with a sombrero.

That little mofo had a nice header for Mexico.

[Critch]

Good timing for the mix-up in the defence to let Mexico score, Mexico were starting to run out of ideas.

Mexico looked pretty good though, not good enough to be a challenger for the cup despite what the FIFA rankings say.

Looking forward to the Portugal v Angola game now, Portugal could be a dark horse to challenge or they could be a trainwreck waiting to happen. Read that the last time Angola played Portugal, Angola tried to get some revenge for the whole colony thing on the pitch. They had 4 players sent off and then tried to get a 5th sent off to get the game suspended Could be physical.

[Coffee Warlord]

Fun match.

Now....let's go ANGOLA!

[Eaglesfan27]

I'm just happy that some announcers I can tolerate will be broadcasting this match on ESPN2 HD

[Crapshoot]

Angola - Portugal has a lot of history to it - Portugal were the colonial masters, and were not exactly benevolent in their actions. That matters a lot to the Angolan population...

[terpkristin]

Holy moly, Portugal with a good shot 11 seconds in!

/tk

[kingfc22]

Sounds like this match won't be a really friendly one.

[Crapshoot]

wow - already 1-0!

[Eaglesfan27]

That was a quick goal. Portugal looking like they might be that dark horse to challenge early..

[terpkristin]

Good strike by Portugal to get that in there. Nice pass, nice key in.

/tk

[kingfc22]

This is gonna be a blowout. Angola looks really outclassed so far.

[Crapshoot]

Nice move by Angola, but the final touch was missing.

[RPI-Fan]

Good announcers, good open football, this is what the World Cup is about!

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by RPI-Fan

Good announcers, good open football, this is what the World Cup is about!

We agree on something! Compared to O Brien, Smyth's a frigging genius!

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

We agree on something! Compared to O Brien, Smyth's a frigging genius!

Absolutely! This game has been very entertaining so far

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

Absolutely! This game has been very entertaining so far

Yeah, I'm quite impressed that Angola's playing football, you know - instead of kicking the shit out of the Portugeuse(sp?). ITs been fairly free flowing, and Angloa are getting their shots in - could be interesting. An Angolan goal would be great for neutrals to watch.

[Crapshoot]

Nice shot! Angola's looking pretty decent in midfield and attack - they can't finish, but still.

[Eaglesfan27]

Excellent save by the Angolan keeper.

[kingfc22]

Originally Posted by kingfc22

This is gonna be a blowout.

Glad to see I was wrong. Now let's see if Angola can get the equalizer in the final 8-10 minutes.

[Critch]

Well that got pretty dull. Portugal just controlled it and killed it.

Looks like Portugal and Mexico will be having no problems qualifying from that group.

[MikeVick7]

The broadcast today showed that Robben was 27, is this wrong or right? He definitely looks 27, but isn't he like 22?

[Crapshoot]

Yeah - he's 22. Broadcast was off base.

[Narcizo]

All through the Sweden game I was thinking "If only Sweden had a midfielder who could look up and pass the ball well into the (savannahesque) expanses in the T&T defence." and then I remembered that they do. He was sat on the bench. Old CM0001 favourite Kim Källström come on with only 10 minutes left to play and proceeded to show why he should have been on all along.

Sweden played like they used to play about 6 years ago but that's what happens when one of your forwards is out of form (I don't think I've ever seen Zlatan make so many mistakes and look so heavy-footed) and the other is lacking match fitness and your "star" midfielder is struggling with an injury. The difference was, 6 years ago, Sweden always got the lucky break to win games against inferior opponents. Lagerbäck is always going to stick with established players which is why he didn't take Larsson off, started Anders Svensson and kept Linderoth on even when it was perfectly clear that he had nothing to do on the pitch and had just been injured. But he did sub Wilhelmsson (the owner of the ugliest haircut, not only in the World Cup but in the history of everything. Ever) despite the fact that he was the main originator of most chances for Sweden.

Given the complacency shown by the coaching staff under the game (we just have to keep on doing what we're doing and we'll score) and after it, it's nigh on impossible to see Sweden getting the win that they need against Paraguay.

England were fucking dire as well. Eriksson handed over the initiative to the Paraguayans on a golden platter in the second half. But at least they got the result. (Despite the huge gamble they took in keeping Ashley Cole on - a walking (well, stumbling) liability if ever I saw one). Yet another case of lack of match practice. I hate the way England play when they get an early lead in an important game. On the plus side England are pretty much assured top spot in the group now.

[Marc Vaughan]

I hate the way England play when they get an early lead in an important game

As do most English fans - its not a very 'english' way to play at all ... beside which we generally screw it up