2006-07 Soccer Thread

[law90026]

Originally Posted by daedalus

Because 1) Le Boss comes up with great players that other teams want and 2) as much as it pains me to admit, we are not a "big" club (which I consider Mancheter United, Liverpool and, now, Chelsea to be, amongst English clubs). Clubs think that, with enough money on the table, we HAVE to sell. I disagree with that sentiment since I think the board is actually intelligent enough to never f' with Mr Wenger - although I think Mr Wenger is considerate enough to the board's financial restriction that he would consider it himself. Also, we have less of a "name" attachment than clubs like Real Madrid or Manchester United and, of course, to greedy scumbags, cannot -- or would not -- offer the level of salaries that Chelsea can.

Yeah this I understand on a rational level. Arsenal has really only become "continental" or "global" in recent years, mainly because of Wenger. However, what makes me sad is the fact that some of the players we're talking about were either homegrown and/or given the opportunity to shine in Arsenal. And it's not like they weren't paid well either. That's what's truly disappointing.

Viera: He was an AC Milan reserve and groomed to the star he eventually became.
Cole: Arsenal boy.
Henry: Say what you will, but it seemed touch and go last season whether he would stay, which is a tad worrisome. I'm also beginning to wonder whether he chokes on the big occasion (separate issue).
Cesc: Barca reserve.

I guess I wonder whether Arsenal will always have to face such issues or whether it can eventually become less of one ... time will tell I guess. It's just disappointing.

Cole wants out and has wanted for the last year. Perhaps the Boss waited too long to get rid of Pennant and his selfish attitude got to Cole. Perhaps he really is a douche and his nature is merely surfacing. Whatever it is, meeting up with a rival the day before a huge match with another rival is unforgivable [and, amazingly, quite a number of Arse fans HAD forgiven him for it]. Refusing to accept the wrongness of it and attempting to blame the club for it is ridiculously beyond the pale.

Agreed, complete douche. I'm hoping the transfer takes place at some point in time for a figure between the 16 mil to 25 mil figure bandied about, simply because I don't think Cole would be in the right frame of mind. However, I'm also worried about the precedent it sets.

Reyes, talented as he is, never really seemed settled at Arsenal. I don't think enough Arsenal fans ever really appreciated him enough for, what I think, he does. I think they wanted goals in the manner that Pires provided but he is not the same type of player [the only thing they had much in common was their tendency and willingness to plop on the ground]. He provided a number of really nice passes to release Henry on his runs, he tracked back on defense much more than Pires did. Also, based on comments from Sevilla fans, I don't think he was employed in his best position at Arsenal -- as the withdrawn striker. But what he wants is to return to Spain and Real Madrid is his best chance to do so. I can't consider it a bad thing for him to leave.

The problem isn't just Reyes. So far, Arsenal hasn't found the right complement to Henry, mainly because Wenger seems to be playing like players in the 2 forward spots. Reyes plays like a winger and Henry drifts out to the wing as well. That's a problem that has to be addressed.

I'm waiting for that typical goalscorer/poacher type to be acquired to be honest, or one of those strong forwards that can hold the ball up. Trezeguet comes to mind to fit the first and someone like Jan Koller (though he's too old now) would fit the second. I actually think Klose would be great but that's too farfetched I think.

And Reyes, for all his ability, never really got it going. He just doesn't seem to be suited for the English game. I can't say I'm overly disappointed he's leaving, it's just the manner of leaving that leaves a sour taste in my mouth.

Quite frankly, I think there are enough options upfront (Henry/RVP/Adebayor/Lupoli?). The midfield looks decent .. it's the Defence I'm worried about. After Toure and Senderos, there isn't much back-up at all. And say what you will, Clichy hasn't shown the ability to stay healthy and Flamini isn't a natural left-back. Wenger is putting a lot of faith in his youngsters .. though I guess it worked for Man U at the time (Beckham, Scholes, et al).

[Crapshoot]

John Terry named as England captain. If I were an England fan, I'd be irritated - the best, most inspirational player in the country is cast aside for a good (but not great) central defender as captain ? Who's more capable of taking the game by the proverbial "Scruff of the neck" - Terry or Gerrard (see Istanbul 2005, Cardiff 2006) ? As a Liverpool fan, I'm not the disappointed though - it would be more pressure on the guy.

[law90026]

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

John Terry named as England captain. If I were an England fan, I'd be irritated - the best, most inspirational player in the country is cast aside for a good (but not great) central defender as captain ? Who's more capable of taking the game by the proverbial "Scruff of the neck" - Terry or Gerrard (see Istanbul 2005, Cardiff 2006) ? As a Liverpool fan, I'm not the disappointed though - it would be more pressure on the guy.

Why irritated? Loathe as I am to say this, Terry is a really good captain. He's a leader, he's inspirational and he's proven himself at club level. As for not being great, I would beg to differ. He's one of the best in the world in my opinion.

Besides, even if the captain's armband is given to Terry, it doesn't mean Gerrard can't lead ..

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by law90026

Why irritated? Loathe as I am to say this, Terry is a really good captain. He's a leader, he's inspirational and he's proven himself at club level. As for not being great, I would beg to differ. He's one of the best in the world in my opinion.

Besides, even if the captain's armband is given to Terry, it doesn't mean Gerrard can't lead ..

IMO (and this is certainly open to debate), your captain has to be good enough to take control of the game, run the game if its needed - he doesn't have to be your best player, but he should have the ability to step his game up. I think Terry is a good player - I just don't see how he's a better choice than Gerrard.

[law90026]

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

IMO (and this is certainly open to debate), your captain has to be good enough to take control of the game, run the game if its needed - he doesn't have to be your best player, but he should have the ability to step his game up. I think Terry is a good player - I just don't see how he's a better choice than Gerrard.

Fair enough, I guess that's where a difference of opinion in Terry's ability lies Peter Beardsley's article in the Guardian had Gerrard ahead of Terry .. but just slightly.

[Cringer]

Barcelona get 3 goals between the 85th and 90th minute last night to get the draw with Club America. WOuld have been nice to be there but I just couldn't afford it right now. And I would have been pissed anyways because the Dynamo lost to the Galaxy 1-0 right before that....oh well.

http://www.mlsnet.com/MLS/news/mls_n..._mls&fext=.jsp

[PilotMan]

Peter Novak gets his name pumped up for Nats coach this week after his teams performance against Chelsea and DC's performance against Real Madrid last night. I know that Klinsmen is still being talked about, but Novak seems to be adding to his resume quickly.

I still see him as another incarnation of Arena. I think that he would have his moments, but generallywouldn't be the answer that the US is looking for.

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

IMO (and this is certainly open to debate), your captain has to be good enough to take control of the game, run the game if its needed - he doesn't have to be your best player, but he should have the ability to step his game up. I think Terry is a good player - I just don't see how he's a better choice than Gerrard.

I think the most important part of a captain's role is that of tactical organizer. Terry can obviously do that well and is better equiped to do it from the backline.

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by Desnudo

I think the most important part of a captain's role is that of tactical organizer. Terry can obviously do that well and is better equiped to do it from the backline.

Fair enough - I guess I see that being the manager's job - a defender can still take charge for set pieces and what not.

Hell, would you have picked Terry over Gerrard ?

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

Fair enough - I guess I see that being the manager's job - a defender can still take charge for set pieces and what not.

Hell, would you have picked Terry over Gerrard ?

Yes. A captain's primary role is the you go there, cover that guy, you're supposed to be over there type stuff, as well as keeping the team on an even keel. That's most easily done from the CB position since they can see the whole field looking forward. It's why you don't see many forwards as captains.

The ability of the manager to get tactical corrections done is limited to the two or three players that can hear his shouts, so you need someone on the field to do it.

As for the inspirational stuff, I think the important traits for a captain are consistency and even tempered level-headedness. Gerrard doesn't need to be captain to inspire people with his clutch play.

[saldana]

apparently replacing him as captain was only the beginning...

Originally Posted by foxsports.com

Beckham dropped from England squad
Posted: 2 hours ago



LONDON (AP) - England may never again rely on David Beckham's bending free kicks.


Coach Steve McClaren on Friday left him off the squad that will face European champion Greece on Wednesday in an exhibition game.

The coach has not completely shut the door on one of soccer's most glamorous and popular players, but Mclaren is trying to build a national team without the 31-year-old Real Madrid midfielder.

"I spoke to David last Monday and notified him of my decision and said that I was planning for the future, looking to change things, and David wasn't included," McClaren said.

"At the present moment I am looking to take this team in a different direction. It's a new beginning. It's a clean sheet of paper for everybody and that's why I decided not to pick David Beckham."

The game against Greece is at Old Trafford, where Beckham scored some of his greatest goals for Manchester United and England. It was against Greece at Old Trafford that Beckham curled in a last-minute goal in 2001, putting England in the 2002 World Cup.

"Having spoken to Steve McClaren this week I can fully understand that a new manager should want to make his mark on the team and build towards the next World Cup," Beckham said in a statement. "I'm proud to have played for England for 10 years and my passion for representing my country remains as strong as ever."



England Friendly
Tue., Aug. 15, 3 p.m. (LIVE) -
England U21 vs. Moldova

Wed., Aug. 16, 3 p.m. (LIVE) -
England vs. Greece

All times ET, subject to change.
England now must do without Beckham's free kicks and penalty kicks as well as his long passes of uncanny accuracy. It was Beckham's free kick in a 1-0 victory over Ecuador that got England through to the quarterfinals of the World Cup in Germany.

"I have great respect for him, fantastic captain for England, a great player and still is a great player and he took the news very well," McClaren said. "Although he was disappointed. I got the reaction I wanted and the reaction was that he would continue to fight for his place and I will never close to the door."

Beckham limped out of England's quarterfinal against Portugal with ankle and Achilles' tendon injuries and sat tearfully on the side as his team was eliminated in a penalty-kick shootout after a 0-0 tie.

The next day he stepped down as England captain after 58 games, but said he wanted to keep playing for national team.

Beckham's critics insist he should have gone long ago. His show-biz lifestyle, his high-profile marriage to former Spice Girl Victoria Adams and the wealth he gained through nonsoccer endorsements also prompted suggestions he was no longer interested in the game.

His ability with his accurate right foot made him a name on the soccer field and even became a movie title, "Bend It Like Beckham." But his critics said it was his only skill.

A right wing, Beckham doesn't dribble past opponents. He rarely gets into close-range shooting positions and the only goals he scores from open play are long shots. Although he has the stamina to run for 90 minutes, he no longer has much pace. He is also a poor tackler who regularly gets into trouble with referees for petulant behavior.

It was his retaliatory kick at Diego Simeone that led to a red card against Argentina at the 1998 World Cup. England had to play for another 73 minutes with 10 players, eventually losing in a shootout.

While playing for Manchester United, Beckham was blamed for England's elimination and jeered by rival fans. But he bounced back and became a favorite again, appointed captain of the national team. He inspired England to a 5-1 victory over Germany in a World Cup qualifier in Munich and guaranteed a spot at the 2002 World Cup with his last-minute free kick against Greece.

But England didn't make it past the quarterfinals in South Korea and Japan, and Beckham was partly to blame again.

Having just recovered from a broken left foot, Beckham jumped out of a tackle against Brazil, and the move led to a tying goal. Brazil won 2-1 and went on to capture its fifth title while England went home.

His goals helped England reach the 2004 European Championship. But Beckham, by then a Real Madrid player, shot high and wide from the penalty spot in another shootout loss to host Portugal.

Under Eriksson, Beckham stayed as captain and helped the team reach the 2006 World Cup. But he angered FIFA president Sepp Blatter when he deliberately fouled an opponent to get himself suspended from a World Cup qualifying game against Azerbaijan. He knew at the time he would miss the game because of injury.

Beckham made 94 appearances for England - he was captain for 58 - and has long said he'd like to reach 100. Only now, it's a "new beginning."


Squad:

Goalkeepers: Paul Robinson (Tottenham), Chris Kirkland (Wigan), Ben Foster (Watford)

Defenders: Gary Neville (Manchester United), Luke Young (Charlton), Rio Ferdinand (Manchester United), Phil Neville (Everton), John Terry (Chelsea), Jamie Carragher (Liverpool), Michael Dawson (Tottenham), Wayne Bridge (Chelsea), Ashley Cole (Arsenal), Wes Brown (Manchester United)

Midfielders: Steven Gerrard (Liverpool), Frank Lampard (Chelsea), Owen Hargreaves (Bayern Munich), Aaron Lennon (Tottenham), Jermaine Jenas (Tottenham), Stewart Downing (Middlesbrough), Shaun Wright-Phillips (Chelsea), Kieran Richardson (Manchester United)

Forwards: Peter Crouch (Liverpool), Jermain Defoe (Tottenham), Dean Ashton (West Ham), Darren Bent (Charlton)

[saldana]

apparently replacing him as captain was only the beginning...

Originally Posted by foxsports.com

Beckham dropped from England squad
Posted: 2 hours ago



LONDON (AP) - England may never again rely on David Beckham's bending free kicks.


Coach Steve McClaren on Friday left him off the squad that will face European champion Greece on Wednesday in an exhibition game.

The coach has not completely shut the door on one of soccer's most glamorous and popular players, but Mclaren is trying to build a national team without the 31-year-old Real Madrid midfielder.

"I spoke to David last Monday and notified him of my decision and said that I was planning for the future, looking to change things, and David wasn't included," McClaren said.

"At the present moment I am looking to take this team in a different direction. It's a new beginning. It's a clean sheet of paper for everybody and that's why I decided not to pick David Beckham."

The game against Greece is at Old Trafford, where Beckham scored some of his greatest goals for Manchester United and England. It was against Greece at Old Trafford that Beckham curled in a last-minute goal in 2001, putting England in the 2002 World Cup.

"Having spoken to Steve McClaren this week I can fully understand that a new manager should want to make his mark on the team and build towards the next World Cup," Beckham said in a statement. "I'm proud to have played for England for 10 years and my passion for representing my country remains as strong as ever."



England Friendly
Tue., Aug. 15, 3 p.m. (LIVE) -
England U21 vs. Moldova

Wed., Aug. 16, 3 p.m. (LIVE) -
England vs. Greece

All times ET, subject to change.
England now must do without Beckham's free kicks and penalty kicks as well as his long passes of uncanny accuracy. It was Beckham's free kick in a 1-0 victory over Ecuador that got England through to the quarterfinals of the World Cup in Germany.

"I have great respect for him, fantastic captain for England, a great player and still is a great player and he took the news very well," McClaren said. "Although he was disappointed. I got the reaction I wanted and the reaction was that he would continue to fight for his place and I will never close to the door."

Beckham limped out of England's quarterfinal against Portugal with ankle and Achilles' tendon injuries and sat tearfully on the side as his team was eliminated in a penalty-kick shootout after a 0-0 tie.

The next day he stepped down as England captain after 58 games, but said he wanted to keep playing for national team.

Beckham's critics insist he should have gone long ago. His show-biz lifestyle, his high-profile marriage to former Spice Girl Victoria Adams and the wealth he gained through nonsoccer endorsements also prompted suggestions he was no longer interested in the game.

His ability with his accurate right foot made him a name on the soccer field and even became a movie title, "Bend It Like Beckham." But his critics said it was his only skill.

A right wing, Beckham doesn't dribble past opponents. He rarely gets into close-range shooting positions and the only goals he scores from open play are long shots. Although he has the stamina to run for 90 minutes, he no longer has much pace. He is also a poor tackler who regularly gets into trouble with referees for petulant behavior.

It was his retaliatory kick at Diego Simeone that led to a red card against Argentina at the 1998 World Cup. England had to play for another 73 minutes with 10 players, eventually losing in a shootout.

While playing for Manchester United, Beckham was blamed for England's elimination and jeered by rival fans. But he bounced back and became a favorite again, appointed captain of the national team. He inspired England to a 5-1 victory over Germany in a World Cup qualifier in Munich and guaranteed a spot at the 2002 World Cup with his last-minute free kick against Greece.

But England didn't make it past the quarterfinals in South Korea and Japan, and Beckham was partly to blame again.

Having just recovered from a broken left foot, Beckham jumped out of a tackle against Brazil, and the move led to a tying goal. Brazil won 2-1 and went on to capture its fifth title while England went home.

His goals helped England reach the 2004 European Championship. But Beckham, by then a Real Madrid player, shot high and wide from the penalty spot in another shootout loss to host Portugal.

Under Eriksson, Beckham stayed as captain and helped the team reach the 2006 World Cup. But he angered FIFA president Sepp Blatter when he deliberately fouled an opponent to get himself suspended from a World Cup qualifying game against Azerbaijan. He knew at the time he would miss the game because of injury.

Beckham made 94 appearances for England - he was captain for 58 - and has long said he'd like to reach 100. Only now, it's a "new beginning."


Squad:

Goalkeepers: Paul Robinson (Tottenham), Chris Kirkland (Wigan), Ben Foster (Watford)

Defenders: Gary Neville (Manchester United), Luke Young (Charlton), Rio Ferdinand (Manchester United), Phil Neville (Everton), John Terry (Chelsea), Jamie Carragher (Liverpool), Michael Dawson (Tottenham), Wayne Bridge (Chelsea), Ashley Cole (Arsenal), Wes Brown (Manchester United)

Midfielders: Steven Gerrard (Liverpool), Frank Lampard (Chelsea), Owen Hargreaves (Bayern Munich), Aaron Lennon (Tottenham), Jermaine Jenas (Tottenham), Stewart Downing (Middlesbrough), Shaun Wright-Phillips (Chelsea), Kieran Richardson (Manchester United)

Forwards: Peter Crouch (Liverpool), Jermain Defoe (Tottenham), Dean Ashton (West Ham), Darren Bent (Charlton)

[illinifan999]

Best thing about soccer: no commercials

[Cringer]

Originally Posted by illinifan999

Best thing about soccer: no commercials

But still too much advertising.

I hate that crap on sports uniforms, and I will never like it.

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by Cringer

But still too much advertising.

I hate that crap on sports uniforms, and I will never like it.

I will gladly trade jersey pollution for a constant game with no commercials. And as a bonus... any temptation to buy a jersey is removed!

I could only see myself buying a national jersey.

[cthomer5000]

Let's go Liverpool.

[VPI97]

**Community Shield Spoiler**


That was a heck of a goal by Riise to kick things off.

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by VPI97

**Community Shield Spoiler**











That was a heck of a goal by Riise to kick things off.

No kidding. Just.. wow.

[Joe]

Originally Posted by Cringer

But still too much advertising.

I hate that crap on sports uniforms, and I will never like it.

There's no crap on the Barca jerseys.

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by VPI97

**Community Shield Spoiler**














That was a heck of a goal by Riise to kick things off.

Hell yeah... It was pretty damn exciting to watch. Everything seems to be going Liverpool's way at the moment with Ballack off now too.

[Critch]

Nice equalizer, maybe Shevchenko was worth all that money afterall.

Chelsea looked better the further on it went after Liverpool were controlling early on. The defence and the goalkeeping at Riise's goal was terrible, ran the length of the pitch unchallenged then Cudicini dived over the shot.

[VPI97]

Finally...I was beginning to think Crouch had gotten lost on his way back the field after the break. I'm not much of a fan of the big guy, but since he's put us ahead, he can't be all that bad.

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by VPI97

Finally...I was beginning to think Crouch had gotten lost on his way back the field after the break. I'm not much of a fan of the big guy, but since he's put us ahead, he can't be all that bad.

I like him for the novelty... but he never really seems to do much. He's not exactly exceptional with his head, and I really never see him creating much. But I find Liverpool likeable and it's easy to detest Chelsea, so I'm happy with the result.

[Critch]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

But I find Liverpool likeable and it's easy to detset Chelsea, so I'm happy with the result.

I find it easy to detest both of them.

Not a bad game, Chelsea didn't look ready. The Chelsea defence in particular looked disjointed and unready, which is weird since there were no new signings in defence.

Gonzalez, Aurelio and Bellamy all looked like they'll add to the Liverpool challenge, Pennant didn't look up to much though, hopefully he's just a depth signing and not meant to be a regular.

Now roll on next weekend

[AlexB]

Originally Posted by VPI97

**Community Shield Spoiler**


That was a heck of a goal by Riise to kick things off.

Was only a good goal because no Chelsea player challenged him, and then Cudicini made a right hash of the save.

But fair play to Riise for his directness.

[Katon]

Originally Posted by Critch

Not a bad game, Chelsea didn't look ready. The Chelsea defence in particular looked disjointed and unready, which is weird since there were no new signings in defence.

I think there are several factors contributing to that - no Makelele, no Gallas, and an idiotically scheduled preseason. I'd love to know who thought playing in two different countries on consecutive days was a good idea. Or who thought playing just three matches wouldn't leave us underprepared.

Originally Posted by Critch

Gonzalez, Aurelio and Bellamy all looked like they'll add to the Liverpool challenge, Pennant didn't look up to much though, hopefully he's just a depth signing and not meant to be a regular.

Gonzalez looked very good. Aurelio wasn't as much of a threat, but then he's meant to be a left-back. I'm not convinced Bellamy's the right fit for Liverpool; he's a good player, but he's never been a prolific goalscorer, and that's what they really needed up front.

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by Katon

I think there are several factors contributing to that - no Makelele, no Gallas, and an idiotically scheduled preseason. I'd love to know who thought playing in two different countries on consecutive days was a good idea. Or who thought playing just three matches wouldn't leave us underprepared.

Yeah, there was some bizzare decisions made in the Chelsea preseason. Seems to me the MLS game should have been their final match before the Community Shield, giving them pretty much a normal run-up to that game, especially considering the travel.

I hope this means they get off to a slow start.

[Mac Howard]

I don't accept at this point that the loss was down to lack of fitness. The Chelsea play lacked any definitive shape and was only as good as it was because of the quality of the individuals. Was that 4-3-3, 4-4-2, 4-3-1-2? I'd go for the last with Robben having a free role to play on either wing or come through the centre but, in truth, neither he nor Drogma seemed to know what their roles were at all. Neither contributed much of anything to Chelsea's attacking play - Drogma went awol and Robben wandered around seemingly aimlessly.

I think it may take some time for Mourinho to sort out what his best eleven is and what formation to play. He does have the players to make a success of anything he chooses and can play several styles even during the course of one game - in one match last season he went from 4-3-3 to 4-4-2 to 3-5-2 back to 4-4-2 and finally to 4-5-1 all in one game to win it. On the one hand you can see that as a proactive domination approach but on the other that it smacks of a certain desperation and confusion. With a less expansive squad and more conservative manager it would certainly be the latter but with Chelsea that's not so certain.

For the good of the Premiership I hope Mourinho continues to search for the right combination and a slow start to the season but not with any great confidence that that will be the case.

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

I like him for the novelty... but he never really seems to do much. He's not exactly exceptional with his head, and I really never see him creating much. But I find Liverpool likeable and it's easy to detest Chelsea, so I'm happy with the result.

Yeah - his touch is quite frankly, pretty bad. He's no Jan Koller. He works for Liverpool when all else fails, but his finishing is piss poor.

[Mac Howard]

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

Yeah - his touch is quite frankly, pretty bad. He's no Jan Koller. He works for Liverpool when all else fails, but his finishing is piss poor.

"He's got a great touch for a big man" says Tommy-Smyth-with-a-y

[Desnudo]

Liverpool's shirt collars get a thumb down. Just awful.

[Critch]

Originally Posted by Desnudo

Liverpool's shirt collars get a thumb down. Just awful.

I thought both the Liverpool and Chelsea strips looked ok, better than the new Man Utd anyway. Man Utd look like they're wearing a Liverpool shirt from the late 60's.

[Katon]

Originally Posted by Mac Howard

I don't accept at this point that the loss was down to lack of fitness. The Chelsea play lacked any definitive shape and was only as good as it was because of the quality of the individuals. Was that 4-3-3, 4-4-2, 4-3-1-2? I'd go for the last with Robben having a free role to play on either wing or come through the centre but, in truth, neither he nor Drogma seemed to know what their roles were at all. Neither contributed much of anything to Chelsea's attacking play - Drogma went awol and Robben wandered around seemingly aimlessly.

I think it may take some time for Mourinho to sort out what his best eleven is and what formation to play. He does have the players to make a success of anything he chooses and can play several styles even during the course of one game - in one match last season he went from 4-3-3 to 4-4-2 to 3-5-2 back to 4-4-2 and finally to 4-5-1 all in one game to win it. On the one hand you can see that as a proactive domination approach but on the other that it smacks of a certain desperation and confusion. With a less expansive squad and more conservative manager it would certainly be the latter but with Chelsea that's not so certain.

For the good of the Premiership I hope Mourinho continues to search for the right combination and a slow start to the season but not with any great confidence that that will be the case.

I think lack of fitness played a part - Liverpool really took control in the last twenty or twenty-five minutes, when they just had much more energy than us. That's just a quibble, though, as our formation was definitely the bigger problem. But that's also down to our preseason, at least partly; with just three matches it's more difficult to get players used to new formations (or, in this case, figure out that the formation doesn't work), especially when the timing forces your hand regarding squad selection.

[Mac Howard]

Originally Posted by Katon

I think lack of fitness played a part - Liverpool really took control in the last twenty or twenty-five minutes, when they just had much more energy than us.

And the first 20 to 25 minutes when fatigue shouldn't have been a problem. But I think this is partly down to the fact that Liverpool play a faster paced game than Chelsea's more technical style.

That's just a quibble, though, as our formation was definitely the bigger problem. But that's also down to our preseason, at least partly; with just three matches it's more difficult to get players used to new formations (or, in this case, figure out that the formation doesn't work), especially when the timing forces your hand regarding squad selection.

Yes. It takes time to get used to a new style of play and with new players as well then, as a Man Utd supporter, I hope it takes half a season

[Fighter of Foo]

Originally Posted by Katon

Gonzalez looked very good. Aurelio wasn't as much of a threat, but then he's meant to be a left-back. I'm not convinced Bellamy's the right fit for Liverpool; he's a good player, but he's never been a prolific goalscorer, and that's what they really needed up front.

I thought Gonzalez had his proverbial lunch eaten by Geremi. Three or four times in the first half he treid to take him on and failed. Seemed like he was pressing things a bit much. Saw him a few times for Sociedad last season and played fairly well, so we'll see.

And yes, piss poor defending on all three goals, though Lampard's through ball over the top was perfectly timed and placed.

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by Critch

I thought both the Liverpool and Chelsea strips looked ok, better than the new Man Utd anyway. Man Utd look like they're wearing a Liverpool shirt from the late 60's.

I thought the collars looked really ugly, and outdated. Chelsea's mock collars weren't so hot either. I mean what will they bring back next, 3 inch inseam shorts?

[Desnudo]

Randy Lerner, owner of the Browns, will take over Aston Villa.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/foot...la/4789693.stm

"A club statement on the Stock Exchange said a stake of 56.85% of majority shareholders had been secured by Lerner at 547 pence per share."

[cthomer5000]

Anyone out there who watches Sky Sport News on Fox Soccer Channel (specifically the 7PM Eastern show), can you also hear the regular mouse-clicking sounds? Does it bother you as much as it bothers me? Why can't they stop it!

Am I alone on this one?

[MJ4H]

hahah yeah I noticed that earlier tonight as well. crazy

[Critch]

So Rooney and Scholes have both lost their appeals and will both miss the first three games of the season. I thought the decision to send Rooney off was pretty ridiculous, but the English FA's decision to uphold the sending off and confirm the ban is even more ridiculous. I'm sure the Man Utd fans already strong paranoia about the FA will be boosted by this.

Can't wait for Saturday, I'll be in the recliner nice and early preparing for a weekend of EPL. By my counting it'll be possible to watch 8 of the 10 games on the first weekend armed only with DirecTV, Tivo, FSC and Setanta. And that will rise to 9 per week after September 16th when Setanta will be adding a second channel on DirecTV for them to use when they have the rights to two concurrent live games.

And I'll have to watch the 4 Bundesliga games on GolTV too.

Kickass.

[Critch]

dola....

Saturday
7.30am Sheff Utd v Liverpool - Setanta
9.45am Arsenal v Aston Villa - Setanta
10.00am Newcastle v Wigan - FSC
12.00pm Bolton v Spurs - FSC
2.15pm Reading v Middlesbrough - FSC
2.30pm West Ham v Charlton - Setanta

Sunday
8.30am Man Utd v Fulham - Setanta
11.00am Chelsea v Man City - FSC

Kickass again.

[MylesKnight]

Speaking of the EPL, does anyone have any info on Wigan Athletic? This is a squad that played in England's top level for the first time last season and did fairly well (10th place finish).

Any chance of this squad getting even better over time? What has been their secret for success, coming from what would seem to be virtual obscurity?

Is this the kind of Cinderella story that would be good to follow in European Soccer?

[Desnudo]

I think the backstory on Wigan is something like this:

Wigan, a rugby town, puts together a good collection of veterans and up and coming youngsters after being bought by a local sporting goods magnate and hiring an excellent coach. Playing attractive football, they stun the EPL by actually pushing for Europe.

The team has trouble attracting transfers due to the general crudiness of Wigan the town, despite having some money available. They also perform better on the road, due to lack of home support, althought it is getting better.

So yes, definitely a cinderella story. But I don't think they'll get better since they've lost more talent than they've gained this summer and they won't suprise teams anymore. And they still have a lot of trouble attracting players.

[tanglewood]

Wigan are a mini Chelsea. Their owner is rolling in the cash and has bankrolled their rise from Division 3 (now League 2) up to Premiership in the space of 7-8 seasons.

[Critch]

It's a bit unfair to call them a mini-Chelsea, they do have money behind them now, but they're not really outspending clubs that they're out-performing (most of the teams from the midlands, for example). They're just on a level playing field with them.

Paul Jewell is a great manager, he's the difference. This isn't the first time he's been successful in the EPL with an unfashionable club, he kept Bradford up too, he just knows what he's doing. Although he did spend 6mil on Emile Heskey.

And Reading aren't Cinderella either, their owner is one ot the 200 richest men in the UK

[Crapshoot]

The Kuyt to Liverpool saga is finally over - it seems we've finally got a 4th striker, though shockingly, Feyenoord didn't want Kronkamp as part of it.

Any Dutch fans want to provide some insight on Kuyt ? He's been bandied about for years but he didn't exactly impress at the WC (not doubt due to Van Basten's formations) - my read is that he's a poacher and a good finisher, which is something we desperately need.

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by Critch

dola....

Saturday
7.30am Sheff Utd v Liverpool - Setanta
9.45am Arsenal v Aston Villa - Setanta
10.00am Newcastle v Wigan - FSC
12.00pm Bolton v Spurs - FSC
2.15pm Reading v Middlesbrough - FSC
2.30pm West Ham v Charlton - Setanta

Sunday
8.30am Man Utd v Fulham - Setanta
11.00am Chelsea v Man City - FSC

Kickass again.

Shit - Setana doesn't appear to be available for Comcast.

[Critch]

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

Shit - Setana doesn't appear to be available for Comcast.

Nope, at the moment it's only DirecTV or some other satellite thing called Globecast.

[MIJB#19]

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

The Kuyt to Liverpool saga is finally over - it seems we've finally got a 4th striker, though shockingly, Feyenoord didn't want Kronkamp as part of it.

Any Dutch fans want to provide some insight on Kuyt ? He's been bandied about for years but he didn't exactly impress at the WC (not doubt due to Van Basten's formations) - my read is that he's a poacher and a good finisher, which is something we desperately need.

Dirk Kuijt was a fan favorite with FC Utrecht (Forza Utreg, ole, ole!), then scored three goals in has last game for Utrecht against his already announced new team, Feyenoord, where he also became a fan favorite very quickly. He's a guy who fits with Liverpool's image, helping out everywhere where he can. He isn't as gifted with technical tricks like a Bergkamp, Robben or Van Persie, but Kuijt works really, really, really hard and just scores goals (20+ goals in each of the last four seasons in the Netherlands). Add in that he missed only one game in the last 5 seasons (being a meaningless last game of the season) and you'll always play. Do I also need to tell he made 10+ assists in each of his seasons with Feyenoord?

[Mac Howard]

Originally Posted by MIJB#19

Dirk Kuijt was a fan favorite with FC Utrecht (Forza Utreg, ole, ole!), then scored three goals in has last game for Utrecht against his already announced new team, Feyenoord, where he also became a fan favorite very quickly. He's a guy who fits with Liverpool's image, helping out everywhere where he can. He isn't as gifted with technical tricks like a Bergkamp, Robben or Van Persie, but Kuijt works really, really, really hard and just scores goals (20+ goals in each of the last four seasons in the Netherlands). Add in that he missed only one game in the last 5 seasons (being a meaningless last game of the season) and you'll always play. Do I also need to tell he made 10+ assists in each of his seasons with Feyenoord?

I was very unimpressed with him at the WC, MIJB#19, and though any player can have a run of bad games you can usually see beyond that and he didn't come across as being your typical, quality Dutch striker.