So The Superbowl is Over (Unofficial 2007 NFL Draft/Free Agency Thread)

[Dutch]

Re: Jake Plummer.

Yeah, he just retired officially. So, that was fun.

Anyway, like I was saying, we still need to let Chris Simms play elsewhere.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

I don't think that first one is at all accurate. It's over a month out of date, and doesn't include and restructuring or releases since then. I couldn't find anything about salary caps on the second one. However, although it is not official, for Pats fans, there is one website that is fairly good and keeping an in depth salary cap for the team. Go here: http://www.patscap.com/

As of March 3, "the Patriots' 2007 cap figure is $95,700,327 with 60 players signed or presumed tendered. The salary cap is $109 million. The Patriots' adjusted cap is $112,871,580. Therefore, if my calcuations are correct, the Pats are under their adjusted cap by around $17.2 million." I don't believe the numbers include the cap effects of the Heath Evans re-signing, or the recent signings of Thomas or Morris.

[JAG]

ESPN is reporting Dallas will sign G/T Leonard Davis. According to the article:

Davis' contract is expected to exceed the free agent deals of Bills guard Derrick Dockery (7 years, $49 million) and Browns guard Eric Steinbach (7 years, $49.5 million).

Sigh....

[sachmo71]

Oh, I'm VERY happy with Leonard Davis.

[Logan]

Admittedly I don't follow the careers of linemen too often, but I was under the impression that Davis has been sort of a disappointment throughout his career (especially considering his draft position). Has he done enough to warrant a huge contract?

[MikeVic]

Was Travis Henry really released?

[WSUCougar]

Originally Posted by JAG

Sigh....

Have fun with that!

[stevew]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

Was Travis Henry really released?

Yeah, he had an 8.5 million bonus due on Monday, and there was no way that they wanted to pay it. Since there are no waivers on Sunday, he had to be cut on Saturday.

[bhlloy]

Originally Posted by Dutch

Re: Jake Plummer.

Yeah, he just retired officially. So, that was fun.

Anyway, like I was saying, we still need to let Chris Simms play elsewhere.

What are the rules if he comes back mid-season or at the start of next season? Do the Bucs have the first option to pick the trade back up and keep his rights? Hell, what happpens if he decides he wants to unretire and go to the Texans next week?

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

Was Travis Henry really released?

Yeah. So now the Titans starting runningback is Lendale White and he is the only RB on the roster along with a fullback. So I guess so much for Jeff Fishers ball control run first offense

[stevew]

Originally Posted by Vinatieri for Prez

Yep. My guess is that with a poison pill, Miami would be on the hook for it all guaranteed (which they should take a pass on) if they matched. However, for the Pats, it is likely very backloaded so that the Pats pay a fraction of that in the first 2-3 seasons.

Welker's year 7 in that contract is for 20 million, and becomes fully guaranteed if he plays something like 5 games in Miami this year. In other words, a 6 year 18 million dollar deal with some lame backloading.

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by Vinatieri for Prez

I don't think that first one is at all accurate. It's over a month out of date, and doesn't include and restructuring or releases since then. I couldn't find anything about salary caps on the second one. However, although it is not official, for Pats fans, there is one website that is fairly good and keeping an in depth salary cap for the team. Go here: http://www.patscap.com/

As of March 3, "the Patriots' 2007 cap figure is $95,700,327 with 60 players signed or presumed tendered. The salary cap is $109 million. The Patriots' adjusted cap is $112,871,580. Therefore, if my calcuations are correct, the Pats are under their adjusted cap by around $17.2 million." I don't believe the numbers include the cap effects of the Heath Evans re-signing, or the recent signings of Thomas or Morris.

Like I said and you mentioned that they are 17.1 million under. So. Adalius Thomas at 10 million a year, Evans at 1 million, Morris at 1 million and Wes Welker is getting a 7 year 38.5 million contract with at least 3-4 million up front so that will kill any cap space they got left.

The Patriots plan to sign Miami restricted free-agent wide receiver Wes Welker to a seven-year offers sheet worth $38.5 million.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2786731

[gstelmack]

If the Patriots are all done with FA because they've spent their money, I'm still happy. They plugged some holes and have 2 1st round picks still to come. Watch out NFL!

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

If the Patriots are all done with FA because they've spent their money, I'm still happy. They plugged some holes and have 2 1st round picks still to come. Watch out NFL!

I agree the pats have done an outstanding job and with the 2 1st rounders are now the favorites to at least get to THE sUPER bOWL.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Originally Posted by Galaril

Like I said and you mentioned that they are 17.1 million under. So. Adalius Thomas at 10 million a year, Evans at 1 million, Morris at 1 million and Wes Welker is getting a 7 year 38.5 million contract with at least 3-4 million up front so that will kill any cap space they got left.

The Patriots plan to sign Miami restricted free-agent wide receiver Wes Welker to a seven-year offers sheet worth $38.5 million.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2786731

Hmm, I don't think Thomas comes in at 10 million a season. He signed for a little over 7 million a season. The salary gets larger with each season and the signing bonus will be spread out. I would expect this season's cap hit for him isn't more than 5 million. I think Morris will count 2 million this season. And my guess is Welker's contract only counts 2-3 million this year. That leaves them 7-8 million for draft picks (more than enough with their draft position). Plus, all it takes is one or two restructurings to get even more cap room (or cutting old vets when they sign the new FAs - like an Artrell Hawkins for example). There's also the possibility that the guy is a little off in the cap room calculation on that website. Its even conceivable that a long term deal reached with Samuel would free up 2-3 million this season instead of the 7.8 million franchise number.

So, while I think they are done with any big FA signings, I think they've got enough still to get a couple of more solid contributors if they feel like it during the second wave of FA. I would like to see a trade for Seahawks Darrell Jackson who still has 3 years left on his contract at good contract numbers.

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by Vinatieri for Prez

Hmm, I don't think Thomas comes in at 10 million a season. He signed for a little over 7 million a season. The salary gets larger with each season and the signing bonus will be spread out. I would expect this season's cap hit for him isn't more than 5 million. I think Morris will count 2 million this season. And my guess is Welker's contract only counts 2-3 million this year. That leaves them 7-8 million for draft picks (more than enough with their draft position). Plus, all it takes is one or two restructurings to get even more cap room (or cutting old vets when they sign the new FAs - like an Artrell Hawkins for example). There's also the possibility that the guy is a little off in the cap room calculation on that website. Its even conceivable that a long term deal reached with Samuel would free up 2-3 million this season instead of the 7.8 million franchise number.

So, while I think they are done with any big FA signings, I think they've got enough still to get a couple of more solid contributors if they feel like it during the second wave of FA. I would like to see a trade for Seahawks Darrell Jackson who still has 3 years left on his contract at good contract numbers.

I am sure they could only get Darrell Jackson if they are willing to give up their 2nd 1st round pick, though jackson isn't worht more than a 2nd if not a 3rd. I don't see the Pats doing that.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

What are the rules if he comes back mid-season or at the start of next season? Do the Bucs have the first option to pick the trade back up and keep his rights? Hell, what happpens if he decides he wants to unretire and go to the Texans next week?

According to http://www.denverpost.com/ci_5340491, the Broncos still have Jake Plummer's rights for the next three years. The trade was for a conditional draft pick, so since Plummer retired, the trade is off.

[AlexB]

Originally Posted by stevew

Welker's year 7 in that contract is for 20 million, and becomes fully guaranteed if he plays something like 5 games in Miami this year. In other words, a 6 year 18 million dollar deal with some lame backloading.

I thought the NFL outlawed those kind of contracts after the Hutchinson/Burleson deals last year?

[QuikSand]

I don't claim to know anything about the Welker contract... but if the Pats are really allowed to include a "games played for Miami" clause like that as a patently obvious poison pill, then why on earth do they even have the "match" concept at all? Wouldn't every RFA contract eventually involve such a clause of some sort?

I don't really care too much about the guy, but honestly -- that's just obnoxious. (And I realize it didn't start here, but it sounds likee it might be the single most transparent case of this ever)

[Fonzie]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

I don't claim to know anything about the Welker contract... but if the Pats are really allowed to include a "games played for Miami" clause like that as a patently obvious poison pill, then why on earth do they even have the "match" concept at all? Wouldn't every RFA contract eventually involve such a clause of some sort?

I don't really care too much about the guy, but honestly -- that's just obnoxious. (And I realize it didn't start here, but it sounds likee it might be the single most transparent case of this ever)

My understanding is that teams are all but required to include "poison pills" like these in their contract offers now. The NFL and the player's union attempted to get rid of the poison pill contract feature in their negotiations last year, but couldn't reach an agreement. The practice is thus still allowed, and so if the team owners suddenly stopped using this tool the union would cry "collusion!" and probably have a good case.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Originally Posted by Fonzie

My understanding is that teams are all but required to include "poison pills" like these in their contract offers now. The NFL and the player's union attempted to get rid of the poison pill contract feature in their negotiations last year, but couldn't reach an agreement. The practice is thus still allowed, and so if the team owners suddenly stopped using this tool the union would cry "collusion!" and probably have a good case.

Yep. There was negotiations but no change. The league couldn't agree with what the players wanted in order to give up that very favorable part of restricted free agency. So, essentially, as far as restricted free agents go, you can never match -- you just get compensation.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Originally Posted by Galaril

I am sure they could only get Darrell Jackson if they are willing to give up their 2nd 1st round pick, though jackson isn't worht more than a 2nd if not a 3rd. I don't see the Pats doing that.

I think they can get him for him less than that. Jackson is already on the trade block. The Seahawks are loaded at WR and may need cap room, so I see him going for less than a first rounder.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Final numbers on Thomas to the Pats: $20 million in guaranteed money (signing and guaranteed option bonus), on a five-year deal worth a total of $35 million.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Ok, sorry to be repetitive, but here are the official contract terms for Thomas from NFL Management Council in Peter King's article on SI:

• Signing bonus: $12 million in 2007.

• Option bonus: $8 million payable in 2008, applied for cap reasons in equal $2 million increments in 2008, 2009, 2010 and 2011.

• Salaries: $900,000 in '07, $900,000 in '08, $1.9 million in '09, $4.9 million in '10 and $5.9 million in '11.

• Workout bonuses: $107,000 annually if he participates in the Patriots' offseason workout program in Foxboro.

• Cap numbers: In succession, beginning this year, $3.4 million, $5.4 million, $6.4 million, $9.4 million, $10.4 million.

That's right folks, that is a super low cap number for this year and even next year. Free agency is still alive and well for the Pats. That is spectacular. So much for people saying that the Branch debacle (along with Vinatieri, McGinest, Givins leaving for more money) would scare away FAs. Thomas gave the Pats a very nice deal. Based on his quotes, he just likes the Pats organization and wanted to play there badly. He never visited anywhere else. Reading the King article, it is probably true to say that if you are a selfish player only interested in money, you won't go to the Pats. If you're a humble hardworking player that wants to win and be coached well, you want to play for the Pats. I'm ok with only having the latter players on the Pats.

Peter King also said the Pats started FA with about 23 million in cap room (not the 17 discussed at patscap.com), so go figure. It looks like they are still in good shape.

[cthomer5000]

I need to check the details on the deal, but im initially having serious sticker shock at what Houston just paid for Ahman Green.

[stevew]

So essentially Miami will lose Welker for a 2nd rounder instead of a first(probably won't lose him at that cost) cause they didn't want to cough up an extra 500k on his tender. Either they value a 2nd rounder more than him(possible), or they lost their guy cause they are stupid and/or cheap.

Any thoughts?

[stevew]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

I need to check the details on the deal, but im initially having serious sticker shock at what Houston just paid for Ahman Green.

A league source tells us that Green's contract is worth $23 million over four years, and that Green will earn $8 million in the first year of the deal. Per Schefter, $6.5 million of the contract is guaranteed.

Batshit insane.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by stevew

A league source tells us that Green's contract is worth $23 million over four years, and that Green will earn $8 million in the first year of the deal. Per Schefter, $6.5 million of the contract is guaranteed.

Batshit insane.

$6.5 million guaranteed for Ahman Green.

But Reggie Bush was too expensive.

[cthomer5000]

I hear running backs usually do their best work after 30....

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Jari Rantanen's Shorts

I thought the NFL outlawed those kind of contracts after the Hutchinson/Burleson deals last year?

No. They didn't. They tried to, but in order to do so they would have to amend the CBA and the NFLPA refused. The union doesn't mind these "poison pill" clauses, because they are good for the players. It certainly reduces the value of the transition tag and tendering offers.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by stevew

A league source tells us that Green's contract is worth $23 million over four years, and that Green will earn $8 million in the first year of the deal. Per Schefter, $6.5 million of the contract is guaranteed.

Batshit insane.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by Vinatieri for Prez

Ok, sorry to be repetitive, but here are the official contract terms for Thomas from NFL Management Council in Peter King's article on SI:

• Signing bonus: $12 million in 2007.

• Option bonus: $8 million payable in 2008, applied for cap reasons in equal $2 million increments in 2008, 2009, 2010 and 2011.

• Salaries: $900,000 in '07, $900,000 in '08, $1.9 million in '09, $4.9 million in '10 and $5.9 million in '11.

• Workout bonuses: $107,000 annually if he participates in the Patriots' offseason workout program in Foxboro.

• Cap numbers: In succession, beginning this year, $3.4 million, $5.4 million, $6.4 million, $9.4 million, $10.4 million.

That's right folks, that is a super low cap number for this year and even next year. Free agency is still alive and well for the Pats. That is spectacular. So much for people saying that the Branch debacle (along with Vinatieri, McGinest, Givins leaving for more money) would scare away FAs. Thomas gave the Pats a very nice deal. Based on his quotes, he just likes the Pats organization and wanted to play there badly. He never visited anywhere else. Reading the King article, it is probably true to say that if you are a selfish player only interested in money, you won't go to the Pats. If you're a humble hardworking player that wants to win and be coached well, you want to play for the Pats. I'm ok with only having the latter players on the Pats.

Peter King also said the Pats started FA with about 23 million in cap room (not the 17 discussed at patscap.com), so go figure. It looks like they are still in good shape.

Partially true but also Rte 128 propaganda. Sure there are places like like Cincy or Chicago, Oak. and Tenn. where players can do as they please but do Pats fans really believe that only the Pats attract "hardworking guys" Please! Sorry for the minor "threadjack"

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by stevew

A league source tells us that Green's contract is worth $23 million over four years, and that Green will earn $8 million in the first year of the deal. Per Schefter, $6.5 million of the contract is guaranteed.

Batshit insane.

So, under the most charitable viewing, this looks like a deal where the Texans will end up paying under the cap something like:

2007: 3.0
2008: 5.0
2009: 2.2

...or basically paying $10m or so for two years of "service" from this guy.

Unreal. How good does he have to be to make that investment worthwhile? Good thing for them they don't have a real need at RB, like albion pointed out above.

[Fonzie]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

I need to check the details on the deal, but im initially having serious sticker shock at what Houston just paid for Ahman Green.

I'm a Packers fan and am sorry to see him go, but there's no way he should have gotten a contract like that. While my personal jury is still out on Ted Thompson, I'm sure glad he, and not Mike Sherman, was GM when making this decision. If Sherman were still our GM we'd probably have signed Green to a 4-year, $23 million contract with a $6.5 million bonus or something preposterous like that.

[DeToxRox]

Dre Bly doesn't want to be in Denver (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2788121)

and Lance Briggs wants out of Chicago (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2788148)

[JPhillips]

I'm really tired of NFL players bitching about the indignity of a contract that pays them top five money.

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

I'm really tired of NFL players bitching about the indignity of a contract that pays them top five money.

Top five money doesn't really mean top five money, when the real money is often in bonuses and the like (which are excluded from the salary used for franchise purposes).

And if you play for a one-year tender, as lucrative as that one year might be, if you have a devastating injury, you wipe out your ability to make money past that.


I'm not saying these guys aren't being whiny little bitches oftentimes, just that football salaries are a lot different than those in other sports, and here's one place that makes a big difference.

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

I'm really tired of NFL players bitching about the indignity of a contract that pays them top five money.

that doesn't bother me that much

for an nfl player you don't get that many chances to make the big payday. I'm not saying they need to be public about it all the time but I can see being annoyed with the franchise tag.

kind of the price you pay when you have a league where teams rather than players hold the hammer the majority of times.

[JPhillips]

QS: I get that, but this is the system the players agreed to. If they won't play for franchise offers than they need to negotiate that. Briggs should take his 7.2 mil and play.

[Subby]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

$6.5 million guaranteed for Ahman Green.

But Reggie Bush was too expensive.

I bet that deal never goes down if Casserly is still there...

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

QS: I get that, but this is the system the players agreed to. If they won't play for franchise offers than they need to negotiate that. Briggs should take his 7.2 mil and play.

That's right, what the players don't realize is that part of the reason they got FA (and the ability to make the money they are now getting in FA) was they agreed to have a franchise tag. What Briggs should realize is that without the franchise tag, there is a chance he wouldn't have even been an unrestricted free agent this season to begin with. So, shut the hell up Briggs.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Originally Posted by Galaril

Partially true but also Rte 128 propaganda. Sure there are places like like Cincy or Chicago, Oak. and Tenn. where players can do as they please but do Pats fans really believe that only the Pats attract "hardworking guys" Please! Sorry for the minor "threadjack"

I absolutely never said that the Pats are the ONLY TEAM that attracts those types of players. I said that ONLY THOSE PLAYER TYPES are attracted to the Pats. That is all I said. Please be careful about throwing around your "Pleases!" when you read something like that. Of course, I could name other teams that attract hardworking players too -- Philly is obviously one.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Wes Welker is a Pat. Instead of going through the restricted FA fiasco, the Pats and Dolphins instead just agreed to a trade. Pats send a 2nd and 7th rounder this year. In return for the extra 7th rounder, the Pats get Welker under contract now at his 1.3 million salary. In addition, they are believed to have a longer term deal ready for Welker. Apparently, by sending the extra 7th rounder they will also save money on Welker's contract so they won't have to worry about the Miami match. The Pats keep on improving and I'm liking it.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...ker/index.html

[Ksyrup]

Broncos signed Travis Henry. Hopefully that puts an end to the trade-up-for-Peterson draft rumor.

[beargrowlz]

Wes Welker is a Pat.

Have to like the Pats offseason so far.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Colts resign Rob Morris.

Titans resign Kerry Collins.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Kevin Carter signs with the Bucs.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Welker just signed a new contract with the Pats at 5 years/18.1 million with 10.75 million in guarantees. Good fair contract. Like other Pats contracts, I imagine the guarantees are spread out over the life of the contract.

[JAG]

The Patriots have shown interest in dealing for Randy Moss. A source said Bill Belichick believes he could motivate Moss to play and that he'd have the locker room support system to back him up, thanks to high-character veterans like Tom Brady, Richard Seymour and Rodney Harrison.
-- Boston Herald


That's a bit out of left field

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by Vinatieri for Prez

I absolutely never said that the Pats are the ONLY TEAM that attracts those types of players. I said that ONLY THOSE PLAYER TYPES are attracted to the Pats. That is all I said. Please be careful about throwing around your "Pleases!" when you read something like that. Of course, I could name other teams that attract hardworking players too -- Philly is obviously one.

Sorry dude. I jumped to quick on that. I am a Titans fan and am extremely pissed off with the way they have totally ignored the FA period. Again sorry