The Official March Madness 2007 Thread

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Easy Mac

A Pats fans who hates one of the historically best teams in college basketball. Next you'll tell me fans in Boston hate the Yankees.

I'm drunk right now, but I don't hate Duke. In fact, when they are playing in the ACC, I root for them. I just think its absurd that they were in the tournament this year when they couldn't even compete in the ACC.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Radii

-- Pundits and fans bitching about mid major vs mid major matchups. Southern Illinois earned a 4 seed, Butler earned a 5 seed. That is awesome, I love seeing small schools come up big and earn those high seeds. But then you get complaints that Butler should be matched up with a power conference team and shouldn't be forced to knock another smaller team out. If Butler earns a 5, and ODU earns a 12, so be it!

-- The result of one game does not tell anyone anything about whether a seed, or a spot in the tournament was deserved. Thsi goes both ways. The fact that NC State beat Drexel doesn't mean Drexel doesn't deserve to be in the NCAA Tournament. The fact htat Duke lost says nothing at all about their seeding. Poker players ought to understand this. Just because you lose a hand doesn't mean the decision you made to put money in the pot was wrong. The decision to make Duke a 6 may well have been wrong, based on the criteria the committee uses, but whether Duke gets upset or wins the national title has nothing to do with it. Stop pointing to the result of one game as if it is any sort of proof of anything!



Many of us in here call this the most exciting sports weekend of the year! Enjoy it!

I agree with both of your points. I was merely defending against a high-major homer that threw out some completely unbalanced stats that don't tell the picture. I only come out in defense of the mid-majors when someone comes in bashing them or making it out like they suck and don't deserve to be there. I am not the aggressor in these discussions, it's the high-major people who try and knock down the mids.

Originally Posted by MattJones4Heisman

Try not to jump to any conclusions there sport.

#1: I think it is silly to classify a team as whatever-major and then lump it with others. Every team is a separate entity. So, no, I don't think the discussion is valid. I think it is contrived.

Originally Posted by MattJones4Heisman

I understnad that you don't see it. I'm annoyed by the amount of attention that this topic is getting in this thread when I want to read and discuss actual games and teams instead arbitrary groups of teams so I am not going to discuss it further.

You are the one who doesn't understand. Again, probably because you follow an SEC team. I follow the SEC and CAA (Vols and W&M). To try and put the two conference on the same level is absurd. There is a very good reason for the distinction.

a. Money. The amount of money that the High-Majors get over the Mid-Majors is ABSURD. TV, Donations, etc, etc. It's a completely different field

b. Media Coverage. The High Majors get a vast amount more.

c. Bias. In selection, in TV, in commentators, in everything. A High-Major team that is not as good as a mid-major team will often get into the tourney because they are in a high-major.

To try and ignore the obvious distinctions between conferences is absurd. It is FAR from arbritrary.

[dixieflatline]

Is there a map like Gribble nation to see what games I am going to get? Here in the midwest with Indiana and MSU both playing at the same time I could see it going either way. The local CBS stations website says games TBA so no help there and that is what TiVo says as well. Thanks.

[kcchief19]

As a courtesy to FOFC, I'll limit and conclude my annual mid-major screw-job rant to this little speech.

Mid-major at large teams were 4-2 in the first round, with both losses coming to other mid-major at-large teams.

The number of mid-major teams making the tournament was its lowest in four years. The number of first-round upsets was its lowest since 2000. I'll give the tournament committee decent credit for seeding playing a role there. Five years ago, Southern Illinois would have been a 10-seed and Illinois would have been an eight, so some upsets have been reduced by giving (some) mid-majors the higher seeds they deserve and giving marginal power conference teams the lower seeds they deserve.

Of the five five first round upsets, three were pulled by mid-major, one by at-large Xavier and two by automatic bids VCU and Winthrop. The only "upsets" pulled by power conference teams were in 8/9 games.

I'm not going to argue that a Drexel or a Missouri State deserves in over an Illinois or a Stanford (I could, but I won't). I will argue -- with plenty of supporting material, from RPI to actual games played -- that a Missouri State or Drexel is just as deserving as a power conference team.

This year, it appeared the committee adopted the old "tie goes to the runner" rationale, determining that if a mid-major and power-conference team were determined to be relatively equal, the tie goes to the power-conference team.

If that's the case, the NCAA just needs to say so. They told mid-majors to schedule up, Missouri State beat Wisconsin on a neutral court. They told them to go on the road, Drexel won at Villanova and Syracuse. They told them to beef up their RPI, the Missouri Valley topped the Big XII.

So here's the question: What do mid-majors need to do to get into the NCAA tournament?

Each year I grow more and more in favor of expanding the tournament, since the NCAA seems completely unwilling and unable to allow mid-majors in to the tournament if they can sneak in an Illinois or a Stanford. If there are 15 teams deemed on the bubble, let's expand to 80 teams and have and have 16 play-in games on Tuesday/Wednesday. The NCAA's already fine with play-in games -- that's established.

You take it up to 80 and you have to let the mid-majors in, otherwise the NCAA will be letting in 16-15 teams with a 6-10 record form the ACC in over a 22-8 Air Force team, and then the committee would be exposed for the frauds they are. There are 336 teams the NCAA, meaning 24% would qualify for the tournament. In the NFL 38% of the teams make the playoffs and 27% in MLB. Close to half of I-A football teams play in bowl games. I won't even discuss the NHL and NBA. The NCAA tournament would still be the single-most difficult post-season to qualify for in all of major American sports.

I realize this isn't perfect either, because the NCAA in their infinite wisdom would pair up Missouri State vs. Albany and Air Force vs. Texas A&M Corpus Christi and give Illinois and Stanford a first round bye. This would deny Niagra their moment of glory against Kansas that they deserved. The NCCA would need to ball up and give first-round byes to to automatic conference winners, plus the the top at-large teams. The bubble teams should have to play their way to the second round.

What would the NCAA have to lose? Two more days of basketball. Gee, fans would hate that. Two more days of games for TV rights. I know the NCAA hates making more money. Doing the right thing. Ah, that's the problem.

[Easy Mac]

[Easy Mac]

dola, in case you're not pumped enough for the Louisville-Texas A&M game, just google Louisville Cheerleader (NSFW googling). A somewhat oldie, but definitely a goodie.

[JonInMiddleGA]

So here's the question: What do mid-majors need to do to get into the NCAA tournament?

Have enough people who actually care about seeing them play.

[albionmoonlight]

Anyone else with Directv in the Raleigh Area who is getting the message that the CBS station is "temporarily unavailable?"

Cause I am, and it sucks.

[MJ4H]

Originally Posted by wade moore

Snip

I'm not ignoring differences between conferences. I'm not ignoring anything. It is a discussion that is pointless. Yes it is contrived because the record of a group of mid level conferences against high level conferences means nothing. That's why complaining that they have to play each other is pointless.

Yes, I agree that teams from lower-level conferences get less respect than they should. No, I don't agree that lumping them into a huge group and comparing their records with another huge group is doing anything but masturbating.



And stop saying I don't understand just because I don't agree with you. I DO understand everything you are saying. And it has nothing to do with following an SEC team. It's not like I sit around in an Arkansas themed room and when something else comes on I change the channels and sing the fight song, you know. Believe it or not, people besides you can see teams besides the one(s) they root for.


This is absolutely the last thing I will say on the subject. I mean it this time, too.

[Easy Mac]

5 minutes until our first huge upset?

[henry296]

Originally Posted by Easy Mac

5 minutes until our first huge upset?

And my official elimination from all pools.

[Easy Mac]

xavier is not playing smart basketball right now... they're playing like Duke

[adubroff]

It bothers me that Motta pulls Oden here....He's your one clear advatange, and you pull him out the game.

Of course, generally Ohio State does a bad job playing through Oden anyway (too many possessions where they just dribble up and take a three).

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by adubroff

It bothers me that Motta pulls Oden here....He's your one clear advatange, and you pull him out the game.

Of course, generally Ohio State does a bad job playing through Oden anyway (too many possessions where they just dribble up and take a three).

but if you don't pull him now xavier just goes right at him again and again till he fouls out and then you're without him. isn't it better to keep him for the stretch, where he might snag you at least one key board or something?

[RPI-Fan]

What is up with Texas A&M having 22 people on their roster?

[RedKingGold]

Ohio State still alive! Great play by Conley

[DaddyTorgo]

it's all the white guy's fault. stupid xavier let the white dude shoot.


NEVER let the white guy shoot in the last 2 minutes of bball game unless it's steve nash

[Easy Mac]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

but if you don't pull him now xavier just goes right at him again and again till he fouls out and then you're without him. isn't it better to keep him for the stretch, where he might snag you at least one key board or something?

but Xavier has no interest in going into the hole right now. They're playing not to lose, which normally seems to make you lose.

[Pumpy Tudors]

74 seconds to go, and Xavier looks scared to shoot the basketball. A few minutes ago, they couldn't miss, and now they're scared to shoot.

[Easy Mac]

and now Gus Johnson is actively rooting for OSU

[Pumpy Tudors]

I think Gus Johnson had an orgasm when Oden got fouled on that rebound attempt just now.

[Easy Mac]

Wow, Oden just gave someone the Gerald Henderson business... and fouled out

[kingfc22]

That should be a T on Oden.

[RedKingGold]

Why oh why do you go for the three there?

[Easy Mac]

Not sure how that wasn't intentional

[BrianD]

It wasn't necessary, but it was a good look.

[DaddyTorgo]

yeah. No way if that's anyone other than Oden he doesn't get a T there.

[Young Drachma]

So if OSU loses, does Oden come out? Or does he come back to college with "something to prove?"

[RedKingGold]

Originally Posted by BrianD

It wasn't necessary, but it was a good look.

Yeah, but if your down by two with one chance left and you've got better athletes, you drive the lane and at least hope to get a foul.

[BrianD]

The refs are not calling a T or an intentional foul at this point in the game. Doesn't matter who it is.

[Pumpy Tudors]

I agree that that should have been an intentional foul on Oden. Imagine the whining that would've come from people if they'd actually called it, though.

"YOU CAN'T LET THE REFS DECIDE A GAME THAT WAY!!!"

[Easy Mac]

Panty shot of the Xavier cheerleader... mmmm HD

[RedKingGold]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

So if OSU loses, does Oden come out? Or does he come back to college with "something to prove?"

After having an injured wrist for the majority of the year, he comes out. What else does he have to prove? He's the lock first overall pick next year.

[DaddyTorgo]

1 makes it tough.

[Young Drachma]

Money.

[RedKingGold]

Wow.

[DaddyTorgo]

mmmm...OMG. He hit the 3!

[kingfc22]

HOLY CRAP

[Easy Mac]

oh shit

seems like the refs decided the game by not calling a T

[DaddyTorgo]

that makes the "non-technical" on Oden a game-changing call.

fucking refs

[kingfc22]

Memo to Gus Johnson: Settle down buddy. You're supposed to be impartial remember.

[Easy Mac]

how good is OSU without Oden right now.

[Young Drachma]

That wasn't nearly as exciting as that commentator made it to be. It seemed obvious to me that he'd make that shot. Just because of how well they went up with that.

[RedKingGold]

Man, can we get any more of an obvious bias by the television play-by-play guy?

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by kingfc22

Memo to Gus Johnson: Settle down buddy. Your supposed to be impartial remember.

Exactly. It was obvious where his allegiance lies. It's as if the Big Ten (+1) commissioner came over and slapped him some payola after the shot.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by kingfc22

Memo to Gus Johnson: Settle down buddy. You're supposed to be impartial remember.

It has to be hard for those guys to not get excited. They shouldn't be pulling for OSU, but it is an exciting game.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Before Cage even shot his first free throw, I said that if he missed one, Ohio State was going to tie the ball game. That's the tournament for you. You just know it's going to happen.

[henry296]

Originally Posted by RedKingGold

Man, can we get any more of an obvious bias by the television play-by-play guy?

I disagree 100%. When Xavier was making its run he was just as excited.

[Young Drachma]

Damn. They're not messing around from out there.

And what's great about that kid's game-tying shot is, even if they'd moved the line back to where it ought to be, it'd still have been a 3.

[molson]

Announcers are always going to sound biased against the seem you're rooting for.