FOFC Literature Draft - Picks Thread

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by Axxon

Well, by then I realized that this wasn't the kind of draft that I thought it was. If I can do anything, it is adapt and fact is, I still have Steven King.

I know, it's the same thing we went through in the Dates Draft - debating whether the date or the event would be more important. My strategy was to do both as best as possible, knowing who the voters were. So far in this draft, there are only 4 picks that would receive top scores from me.

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

I know, it's the same thing we went through in the Dates Draft - debating whether the date or the event would be more important. My strategy was to do both as best as possible, knowing who the voters were. So far in this draft, there are only 4 picks that would receive top scores from me.

BTW, did that draft ever finish? I forget how that one ended or if there was even a vote for it.

[Warhammer]

Originally Posted by sabotai

It's not trivial considering a lot of the greatest works out there are from a small group of authors. Yeah, it would be important for someone to grab King because he has written some of the greatest works for the 20th century. It is very important to grab the most known and respected authors (because they've made the best works and it prevents other people from taking the other great works).

Your pick just sucked.

EDIT: Removed since it went too much into strategy, didn't want to be "that guy."

[larrymcg421]

1. Fiction - 1.8 The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn, Mark Twain
2. Single Short Story
3. Poem - 2.3 Paradise Lost, John Milton
4. Fantasy/Science Fiction
5. Series (A set of books continuing the same story and intended to be read sequentially)
6. Sport Related
7. Children's
8. Non-Fiction
9. Biography/Autobiography
10. History

[Warhammer]

Great, great pick... Was hoping to get that here soon...

[st.cronin]

MOTHERF*&^@@@@@!!!!!

[st.cronin]

Pandemonium breaks out in the ess tee cronins' draft room.

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by sabotai

BTW, did that draft ever finish? I forget how that one ended or if there was even a vote for it.

Well, the contest master dropped the ball a few times unfortunately. Once we got around to voting, I believe the votes showed a three-way tie but with only a handful of votes.

[Warhammer]

Fiction
Single Short Story
Poem - 1.7 The Iliad - Homer
Fantasy/Science Fiction
Series (A set of books continuing the same story and intended to be read sequentially) - 2.4 The Cronicles of Narnia by C.S. Lewis
Sport Related
Children's
Non-Fiction
Biography/Autobiography
History

[Warhammer]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

Well, the contest master dropped the ball a few times unfortunately. Once we got around to voting, I believe the votes showed a three-way tie but with only a handful of votes.

Loved your use of Tolkien in that one.

[Calis]

Originally Posted by Izulde

1. Fiction 2.2 Lolita - Vladimir Nabokov
2. Single Short Story
3. Poem 1.9 "The Waste Land" - T.S. Eliot
4. Fantasy/Science Fiction
5. Series (A set of books continuing the same story and intended to be read sequentially)
6. Sport Related
7. Children's
8. Non-Fiction
9. Biography/Autobiography
10. History

I thought a long time about this pick and eyed some other possibilities, but in the end, my list wouldn't feel complete without what in my personal opinion is the greatest novel ever written, by one of the two authors who have had the biggest influence on me as a writer.

Is it a reach? Maybe, especially with some other options I was strongly considering in this slot, but the end, an Izulde draft without Lolita is like a Dolphins team without Dan Marino.

It just wouldn't be right.

It would've been my top fiction pick.

Good pick, probably could've waited but why take a chance?

[st.cronin]

My overall top 5 are all unavailable now. Paradise Lost was my #2.

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by Warhammer

Loved your use of Tolkien in that one.

Thank you. Persuant to my strategy, I also liked my Christmas, Thanksgiving and New Year's Day picks.

By the way, nice pick on C.S. Lewis. Been waiting for a good pick since Harry Potter.

[Warhammer]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

My overall top 5 are all unavailable now. Paradise Lost was my #2.

My original draft strategy was to let the Poem category fall, but figured my #2 and 3 picks for the category were going to be snapped up early. Paradise Lost was my #2 pick for Poem.

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

My overall top 5 are all unavailable now. Paradise Lost was my #2.

For real? That's why I didn't sign up. I would have googled the most famous poems of all time and just put in what showed up.

[Warhammer]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

Thank you. Persuant to my strategy, I also liked my Christmas, Thanksgiving and New Year's Day picks.

By the way, nice pick on C.S. Lewis. Been waiting for a good pick since Harry Potter.

HP was going to be my pick here if he fell. I figured there were only 4 series that were worth picks this high. The other 3 were picked, so I figured I better get it while the getting was good.

[Axxon]

Originally Posted by sabotai

I thought it was primarily there to ensure a diversified draft. How fun would it be if half the drafters took King novels? If half the drafters took works from Mark Twain, or poems from T.S Eliot?



It's not trivial considering a lot of the greatest works out there are from a small group of authors. Yeah, it would be important for someone to grab King because he has written some of the greatest works for the 20th century. It is very important to grab the most known and respected authors (because they've made the best works and it prevents other people from taking the other great works).

Your pick just sucked.

And you've read Danse Macabre?

My point is that we expected different things from the draft. I think the rule done your way doesn't add much and the losses are similar. We have to water down the works we check so one guy isn't over represented but we dont want to water the works down so you can collect the best author. Why limit the best at all? I don't see how it's an admirable goal to diversify for the sake of diversity.

Either way, the rule waters down the draft so why is your way the obvious way that we should look at it? If it isn't the obvious way then my pick didn't suck per se but it was based on an equally ( I actually think better and more strategic ) compelling logic.

[st.cronin]

Paradise Lost was my #1 poem, #2 overall.

[Axxon]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

I know, it's the same thing we went through in the Dates Draft - debating whether the date or the event would be more important. My strategy was to do both as best as possible, knowing who the voters were. So far in this draft, there are only 4 picks that would receive top scores from me.

Alas, this is my first draft too so I wouldn't know that. No worries though.

[Axxon]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Paradise Lost was my #1 poem, #2 overall.

I brought it up in a PM to lordscarlet but I was thinking of using it as a series when he was still planning to use year of publishing as a criteria which would have really hurt any modern series.

It's a great choice of course in it's own right but really, I think of it more as a series.

[Maple Leafs]

It's the second round and I'm already completely off the board in terms of my list (such as it is) compared to what's being picked.

For whatever reason, Harry Potter didn't occur to me. It's an obvious pick, weird that I never though of it.

[Izulde]

Fantastic pick on Paradise Lost. Good one on Narnia, too, as it's one of the ones that was on my series board.

[Izulde]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

My overall top 5 are all unavailable now. Paradise Lost was my #2.

I'll be interested in hearing your overall top 5 when the draft's done and we can discuss such things.

[Izulde]

Originally Posted by Calis

It would've been my top fiction pick.

Good pick, probably could've waited but why take a chance?

Thanks

[Lathum]

Just got caught up.

I am shocked Harry Potter lasted so longg.

I absolutly despise the Danse Macabre pick. What a huge waste

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by Axxon

And you've read Danse Macabre?

No, that's my point. I've never heard of it.

My point is that we expected different things from the draft. I think the rule done your way doesn't add much and the losses are similar. We have to water down the works we check so one guy isn't over represented but we dont want to water the works down so you can collect the best author. Why limit the best at all? I don't see how it's an admirable goal to diversify for the sake of diversity.

It's not diversity for the sake of diversity, it's diversity for the sake of fun, which is what I've always thought the point of these drafts were. Why bother if half the people will just pick King novels?

Either way, the rule waters down the draft so why is your way the obvious way that we should look at it? If it isn't the obvious way then my pick didn't suck per se but it was based on an equally ( I actually think better and more strategic ) compelling logic.

I didn't say it was the obvious way to look at it and that everyone should look at it that way. I said as a voter, that's how I saw the rule, and that the work itself will mean more to me when I vote than just the list of authors a drafter assembled. If other voters value different things, than good. That's part of the fun.

[Axxon]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Just got caught up.

I am shocked Harry Potter lasted so longg.

I absolutly despise the Danse Macabre pick. What a huge waste

Again, if the rules were setup to include strategy it's a great pick. Since it's only an affirmative action rule it looks like a bad pick. What everyone is missing is that it isn't a horrible read; it's just not his best work and that's not how the game appeared to be set up.

[Axxon]

Originally Posted by sabotai

No, that's my point. I've never heard of it.



It's not diversity for the sake of diversity, it's diversity for the sake of fun, which is what I've always thought the point of these drafts were. Why bother if half the people will just pick King novels?



I didn't say it was the obvious way to look at it and that everyone should look at it that way. I said as a voter, that's how I saw the rule, and that the work itself will mean more to me when I vote than just the list of authors a drafter assembled. If other voters value different things, than good. That's part of the fun.

Oh, I'm not singling you out; your's appears to be the prevailing opinion. I just don't think it takes away any fun if the actual best works were chosen. I don't know why it's any better to have to choose an inferior work simply because it's a different guy. I don't get that but others do. Again, I can adapt and it's no biggie but it's kinda odd to my way of thinking so I was honestly doomed for my first pick no matter what. I don't think like the crowd on this one.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Axxon

Again, if the rules were setup to include strategy it's a great pick. Since it's only an affirmative action rule it looks like a bad pick. What everyone is missing is that it isn't a horrible read; it's just not his best work and that's not how the game appeared to be set up.

Part of these drafts are knowing your voters.

You would have gotten much more from a number of his other works while still taking him off the board.

I just think most of the people who vote will look at that pick and actualy deduct points from you

[Axxon]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Part of these drafts are knowing your voters.

You would have gotten much more from a number of his other works while still taking him off the board.

I just think most of the people who vote will look at that pick and actualy deduct points from you

Like I said, I've never read the draft threads so I was doomed to that pick. Now, since it's actually going to cost me negative points I'll say my enthusiasm for the competitive aspect is gone so I'll just play for my own choices. May make it more fun actually.

Anyone want to trade for a Harry Potter pick? Make me an offer. All offers considered

[sabotai]

Go for it. Your first round pick may have fallen flat, but who knows. Maybe you'll win some major creativity points with some of your others.

[DaddyTorgo]

axxon - just play the draft out the way you want. Part of the fun is getting to summarize your reasons for your picks at the end, and you may win some people over then.

I know I had success with that in my last draft, which was the sports figures one where I had to defend a couple picks I thought and actually ended up winning the draft

[Izulde]

Yeah, to me, this draft isn't about trying to find the "surefire winners", unless that's what you want to do.

For me, this is about using my lit knowledge in a fun way, to draft a team that I'd personally enjoy having and reading myself.

[Axxon]

Originally Posted by sabotai

Go for it. Your first round pick may have fallen flat, but who knows. Maybe you'll win some major creativity points with some of your others.

Dude, it's like starting in the premier league with a -15 point penalty.

Major creativity also is iffy since we're looking for popular choices. I have creative choices and that's what I'm gonna do now but realistically, no one will have heard of most of them so again, winnings gonna be tough.

That's why I'm looking to trade out of the popular choice so I can have fun picking the lineup I want and get more options. Let others quibble over what's popular and go with what I enjoy and see where that takes me. Like you said, that may be the key to victory after all.

I'm assuming I can trade players for picks here. If I get enough picks I can possibly strengthen my hand enough to get it noticed. I don't think Harry Potter alone can bring me back from the quite damning comments I've seen over my Stephen King pick so volume would be the logical next step.

Let me be clear. I'm not in a quitting mood or bummed. I love literature and discussing it so this is going to be fun. I just think it might be more fun to get funky since I pooched it and would probably have more fun just considering it a learning experience so lets haggle!!!

It also sucks because I honestly really think that Danse Macabre IS a great book.

[Axxon]

Originally Posted by Izulde

Yeah, to me, this draft isn't about trying to find the "surefire winners", unless that's what you want to do.

For me, this is about using my lit knowledge in a fun way, to draft a team that I'd personally enjoy having and reading myself.

Actually, that's what my long winded post was trying to say and actually, HP is great and all but it WOULDN'T be on this list if I was playing just for my own enjoyment. I have a much more favorite series that's also fantasy/sci fi so I would have gone with it and had more fun defending it.

[Maple Leafs]

We're on pick #2.5, correct?

[Warhammer]

Yes

[Axxon]

BTW, I'm about to head out to an evening of revelry so if it gets back to my choice it'll be tomorrow am that I can get to it.

Peace out everybody.

[Izulde]

Originally Posted by Axxon

Actually, that's what my long winded post was trying to say and actually, HP is great and all but it WOULDN'T be on this list if I was playing just for my own enjoyment. I have a much more favorite series that's also fantasy/sci fi so I would have gone with it and had more fun defending it.

I agonized over Waste Land vs The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock. Prufrock is my favorite poem of all time and I loved the paper I wrote on it in which, as part of my discussion of the poem, I suggested that the woman of Prufrock's obsession is a lesbian.

But ultimately, Waste Land's legacy and impact was simply too great to outweigh Prufrock, especialy since I do love both poems.

[Izulde]

Point of clarification requested on history:

Is it a non-fiction book of history, historical fiction or both?

[ntndeacon]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

Thank you. Persuant to my strategy, I also liked my Christmas, Thanksgiving and New Year's Day picks.

By the way, nice pick on C.S. Lewis. Been waiting for a good pick since Harry Potter.

Agreed on the C.S. Lewis pick. very nice. Still have never liked you pick of Christmas as the birth of Christ.understood it, but did not think it was good or right, since the accuracy was an issue. (Plus iwanted to use it for the coronation of Charlemagne )

[lordscarlet]

Hey guys.. sorry I was gone longer than I expected today. I was able to monitor the thread through most of the day, though, and you guys had everything on track so I left it along (was reading on my iPhone). The category situation was brought up (with LOTR). My basic rule on category is that you can choose whatever category you want and the voting public can decide if it was a poor decision.

Originally Posted by Axxon

Again, if the rules were setup to include strategy it's a great pick. Since it's only an affirmative action rule it looks like a bad pick. What everyone is missing is that it isn't a horrible read; it's just not his best work and that's not how the game appeared to be set up.

Um. They are setup to include strategy. It seems that you're just upset because you had poor strategy. I'm not sure what other rules you would like, outside of the year one. The series is one reason it just wouldn't work -- You don't get to take decades out of the running because a series runs that long. At best you could knock off each year a book from the series was published.

The author rule is by no means meant to "water down" the draft, but to require strategy. Sometimes people will grab authors to block future picks, sometimes you have to agonize over the "best work" by that author. It is all about strategy when it comes to these restrictions in the drafts.

Originally Posted by Izulde

Point of clarification requested on history:

Is it a non-fiction book of history, historical fiction or both?

Non-fiction. Sorry for the lack of clarity there.

[NoMyths]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

For real? That's why I didn't sign up. I would have googled the most famous poems of all time and just put in what showed up.

Oh, that's why?

[wade moore]

Axxon - you're taking a poor strategy way too seriously. As LS said, it's not that there's no strategy it's that the one you picked didn't resonate with everyone. There's no "given" about whether to pick best work or best author, it's all up to the minds of the voters. I think if you would have picked King and a 2nd-tier work in popularity (like say his "On Writing") I don't think people would have reacted so badly, but very early in the draft you pick King who has some sure fire top-tier writings and take an obscure old writing of his.

It was just a poor choice, bar-none. Others will make poor choices too, so don't give up. Usually there is at least one head-scratcher in everyone's draft. When it all comes out voters may see Stephen King, not really look at the draft order, and not know that you picked him when all of the other categories were still open. MANY voters do not read the actual draft thread, so some of these mistakes can come out in the wash.

Don't give up now, there's still a loooong way to go.

[lordscarlet]

OK. I finally updated the first post. I also have an inbox full of draft boards, let me see if NoMyths is in it (he also sent me a list originally)

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by Axxon

Dude, it's like starting in the premier league with a -15 point penalty.

A couple of other drafters are with you with that penalty. Your pick wasn't the only one I didn't like, and I can't say I was really impressed with any of the other picks. The real draft starts in round 3 when all of the obvious picks are gone. From my experience in these things, a great later round pick will overcome a bad early round pick.

[lordscarlet]

OK. I have one pick left from NoMyths original list -- I will give him a couple hours to wake up and check in before I take it for him.

Also, a number of people are not putting the pick number on their list. Make sure to put the pick number before your pick in your listing.

[NoMyths]

I'm here. Gimme a minute or so.

[NoMyths]

Fiction
Single Short Story
Poem: 2.5 - The Divine Comedy, Dante Alighieri
Fantasy/Science Fiction
Series (A set of books continuing the same story and intended to be read sequentially)
Sport Related
Children's
Non-Fiction
Biography/Autobiography
History

One of the few poems with which nearly every FOFCer is familiar (if mostly in concept rather than specific attribution) -- the idea of varying circles of Hell is a common one now. Inferno is the most famous canctica from the epic poem, following Dante as he is led on a tour of Hell by the poet Virgil, a place they ultimately escape. Purgatory and Paradise then depict tours of those places as well, and Dante eventually comes face to face with God.

From Wiki:
The Divine Comedy (Italian: Commedia, later christened "Divina" by Giovanni Boccaccio), written by Dante Alighieri between 1308 and his death in 1321, is widely considered the central epic poem of Italian literature, and is seen as one of the greatest works of world literature. The poem's imaginative vision of the Christian afterlife is a culmination of the medieval world-view as it had developed in the Western Church. It helped establish the Tuscan dialect in which it is written as the Italian standard.

[Sublime 2]

I like the pick NoMyths.