The OFFICIAL 2008-09 NHL Thread

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

Touche. I couldn't remember if that was the case. I thought it was an automatically penalty. I forgot what fighting was in hockey.

Yeah, Mayers actually did exactly this tonight and didn't get a penalty.

He even (briefly) grabbed Neil without throwing a punch. Strange days when you can grab a guy with both your bare hands and it's not holding, but you get two minutes if god forbid your "free arm" brushes a guy.

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

Yes.

That's what I thought. They didn't call it in the first period of the Colorado-Buffalo game when Laperriere did it.

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

Yeah, Mayers actually did exactly this tonight and didn't get a penalty.

He even (briefly) grabbed Neil without throwing a punch. Strange days when you can grab a guy with both your bare hands and it's not holding, but you get two minutes if god forbid your "free arm" brushes a guy.

I know this means more to you then me, but isn't it awesome to see how awful Ottawa is. I've never liked that team, probably dating back to those retarded people who kept saying Detroit should deal Yzerman for Spezza when he was #1 that year.

Whatever it is, they're a team I just do not like. Too bad Mohammed Emery is in Russia now. His blow ups were fun to watch.

[RendeR]

1-0 Sabres in Colorado, Paille with a quick redirect on a point shot that trickles past the goal line.

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

I know this means more to you then me, but isn't it awesome to see how awful Ottawa is.

Time will tell. It's still early -- remember, they looked unbeatable this time last year. Who knows how they'll shake out in a few months?

But mark my words, if the Sens are bad -- like missing the playoffs bad -- then the franchise is in trouble. This city's sports fan are front-runners like you wouldn't believe. If the Sens are a bad team it's very possible you could see the franchise lose a ton of money, and that's even before the Canadian dollar effect kicks in after a few years.

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by RendeR

1-0 Sabres in Colorado, Paille with a quick redirect on a point shot that trickles past the goal line.

It sucks that Tallinder is out.

[RendeR]

I came into the game in the middle of the 2nd period, what happened to Tallinder?

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by RendeR

I came into the game in the middle of the 2nd period, what happened to Tallinder?

I actually missed what actually happened, but they said he is out with a lower body injury.

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

Time will tell. It's still early -- remember, they looked unbeatable this time last year. Who knows how they'll shake out in a few months?

But mark my words, if the Sens are bad -- like missing the playoffs bad -- then the franchise is in trouble. This city's sports fan are front-runners like you wouldn't believe. If the Sens are a bad team it's very possible you could see the franchise lose a ton of money, and that's even before the Canadian dollar effect kicks in after a few years.

I just don't see the talent in goal or on the blueline to see how this team can be anything more then a 7th or 8th seed. You are right it's still early, but this team needs to figure something out soon.

I assume they'll make a call to the Hawks about Khabby eventually. Anything to add talent in net.

[DeToxRox]

At what point does Ottawa look at making a deal? I feel like Alfredsson can fetch a decent return with his salary only at 4.4 mil or so through 2012.

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

Time will tell. It's still early -- remember, they looked unbeatable this time last year. Who knows how they'll shake out in a few months?

But mark my words, if the Sens are bad -- like missing the playoffs bad -- then the franchise is in trouble. This city's sports fan are front-runners like you wouldn't believe. If the Sens are a bad team it's very possible you could see the franchise lose a ton of money, and that's even before the Canadian dollar effect kicks in after a few years.

Do the Senators make or lose money on a regular basis?

[DeToxRox]

Wow. A give in go from Hossa to Datsyuk, and Dats buries the one handed deke to make it 4-4.

[Wolfpack]

I still can't decide what to make of the outcome for Carolina tonight on the road against the Islanders. On the one hand, they did win 4-3. However, it's the Islanders, so we're not talking heavyweight stuff and what's more they gave up a freaking franchise record 60 shots on goal. Cam Ward stopped 57 of them and the 60th was a penalty shot with 0.7 left when Gleason covered the puck in the crease in a scramble right before the horn.

In the end a sort of poetic justice was served as Doug Weight was the shooter on the penalty shot. Earlier he practically knocked out Brandon Sutter on an open ice hit that was probably legal, but was pushing the definition of "legal" pretty hard.

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

At what point does Ottawa look at making a deal? I feel like Alfredsson can fetch a decent return with his salary only at 4.4 mil or so through 2012.

If he stays healthy, Alfie is a UFA after this year. Almost no chance they'll deal him, though. I'd say it's 95% certain he resigns.

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

Do the Senators make or lose money on a regular basis?

Not sure. On the one hand, they sellout most games. On the other hand, their ticket prices are so discounted that they make less money per game than any other Canadian team, and seasons tickets were down over 10% this year.

The Canadian dollar won't hurt them any time soon because they hedged on it going down. But Melnyk estimates that they could lose $10-30M per season in two years if the dollar stays low, and that probably assume attendance stays up. If they have to rebuild, look out.

This team didn't go bankrupt and stop paying its players a few years ago by accident.

[DeToxRox]

Wings score 3 guys in 9 minutes to take a 5-4 lead, and then the Hawks tie it up 5-5 on a 5 on 3 PP with 7:30 left. Exciting game. Lots of up and down action. The Outdoor Game should be a lot of fun the way these two teams play.

[Galaxy]

Great....Now Roy might be down.

[DeToxRox]

Wings are going into their first shootout of the season .. I have low expectations.

[DeToxRox]

And the Wings actually win a shoot out, as Hossa blasts a slap shot by Khabby. Hossa is on fire the last three games. Its awesome watching him, Dats and Holmer.

[Galaxy]

Going to a shoot out in the Sabs-Avs game.

[RendeR]

I wanted a replay on Vanek's shot, ah well, not a huge thing to lose in the shootout. Still undefeated in regulation and perfect at home where we go for the Sens next week.

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by RendeR

I wanted a replay on Vanek's shot, ah well, not a huge thing to lose in the shootout. Still undefeated in regulation and perfect at home where we go for the Sens next week.

They just lost momentum going after the Avs scored. Were you yelling loud enough?

[RendeR]

*chuckles* not realy, I was rooting them on, but its just J and I tonight so we weren't trying to override a room full of people.

[Pyser]

good devils-flyers game today. lots of intensity, and 4 fights...including 2 that started at the same time. been a long time since i saw 2 fights happening at once in this league

of course, even though they started at the EXACT same time off a faceoff, 2 guys got ejected for fighting while another fight was going on. dumb.

[Chief Rum]

I hardly think all the goals the Ducks are giving up, or the way they are letting teams back into games after taking early leads is particularly good or helpful. All that said, nice to take three in a row now on this Eastern Conference road swing. It seems like we're on our way back to "average". Once we reach there (assuming we do), maybe then we can start building back to "very good", which is where everyone preficted we would be in the first place.

I thought it was interesting we picked up Hedican a couple days ago. Not a lot of faith in the blueliners behind Nieds and Pronger to do that, with Anaheim salcap room at a premium right now. I mean, signing Hedican might mean that a potential savior of our hit and miss offense, Bobby Ryan, won't have a chance whatsoever at being called up, so the Ducks must have had serious fears about their blueline depth to make this move.

I will be interested to hear what bhlloy thinks of that move, and the recent turnaround in game results (if not play, I still think the Ducks have a lot of improving they need to do).

[bhlloy]

I'm happy that the Getzlaf-Kunitz-Perry line is firing, and that most (not all) of the stupid penalties have been eliminated. Defensive play is worrying, but Giguere and Hiller are doing their best to make up for it. Hiller is the real deal and will replace Giggy pretty soon IMO - if not this year then in time for the start of next season.

As for the Hedican signing, I'd have rather done without it, but MacIver and Montodor are trash. It might be a necessary evil. I don't know what to make of Ryan - he's tearing it up in the AHL again, but Carlisle just doesn't seem willing to give him a chance with the Ducks. Even when he's been up with the big club, he hasn't gotten the consistent minutes to show what he can do. From what I've seen of Morrison, I'd much rather have Ryan on that line with Selanne. Another knee-jerk signing of a player on the downside of his career because "we have a need", didn't learn anything from Bertuzzi and Schneider last season. Ironic because the cup run was built on the young guns (Getz, Perry, Kunitz and Penner)

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

I'm happy that the Getzlaf-Kunitz-Perry line is firing, and that most (not all) of the stupid penalties have been eliminated. Defensive play is worrying, but Giguere and Hiller are doing their best to make up for it. Hiller is the real deal and will replace Giggy pretty soon IMO - if not this year then in time for the start of next season.

As for the Hedican signing, I'd have rather done without it, but MacIver and Montodor are trash. It might be a necessary evil. I don't know what to make of Ryan - he's tearing it up in the AHL again, but Carlisle just doesn't seem willing to give him a chance with the Ducks. Even when he's been up with the big club, he hasn't gotten the consistent minutes to show what he can do. From what I've seen of Morrison, I'd much rather have Ryan on that line with Selanne. Another knee-jerk signing of a player on the downside of his career because "we have a need", didn't learn anything from Bertuzzi and Schneider last season. Ironic because the cup run was built on the young guns (Getz, Perry, Kunitz and Penner)

While I tend to agree with some of what you say here, I am not sure you have the Ryan situation right. Both Carlisle and Burke very much want him to be on this team and playing with the second line. Problem is, he has a two-way contract that pays him some $1.5 M if he's here in Anaheim. We can't put him on the team because of the cap. That's why they sent him down (sadly) at the end of preseason--they didn't have a choice.

Also, while I agree that Hiller is fantastic, I doubt greatly we'll make a move to him for at least two years, probably at the point where we either pay him as a #1 or lose him. Jiggy just signed that contract a year ago, is coming off his best season and is a proven performer in the playoffs. He is also probably the most respected player on the team, too, from what I have gathered, and if goalies besides Luongo were to wear the 'C', and we didn't have such a natural captain in Neirdermayer, he would be the wearing it. So I think it would take a drastic fall in play for Jiggy to lose his spot here.

As for Morrison, we didn't really have an answer in house for that spot. I'm not thrilled with the sign-a-vet-to-fill-a-hole either, but we have a small window right now with Teemu and Niedermayer and Pronger getting on, so it's either sign these types of players or just accept being at best a fifth-to-eighth seed, which isn't really the path to success in the NHL.

Remember, the plan was to have Morrison centering Selanne and Ryan, so Morrison isn't a replacement for Ryan, IMO. They don't even play the same position. The signing of Morrison says a lot more about the hard spot we're in for having dealt away McDonald (necessary as it was at the time), and not having developed a true second line center.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

Amazing finish in NY. Crosby misses, and Zherdev buries it. Lundqvist was awesome. God I love Center Ice.

What a shitty weekend to not have cable hooked up. Time Warner, this finger is for you.

The Rangers are playing some really solid hockey with contributions from all over the roster. They've far surpassed my expectations already. Zherdev was a huge grab, thank god for him.

[Suburban Rhythm]

I still sometimes visit HF, and a current thread that I thought was a pretty good debate-

Which "top" 3 would you take on defense (assuming everyone healthy):

Gonchar/Whitney/Orpik vs Markov/Komisarek/Hamrlik.

IMO, in order:

1) Gonchar
2) Markov
3) Hamrlik
4) Orpik
5) Komisarek
6) Whitney

I think Gonchar is easily the #1 of that group, Hamrlik by far the most underrated, Whitney (by far) the biggest question mark. You can argue either way Oprik vs Komi, flip them #4 and #5, both are hitters, Komi a better shot blocker, Orpik a better skater. Neither is great with the puck.

Even as a Pens fan, I've got to say the Montral trio, overall, but I thought that was a pretty good topic for debate.

[Honolulu_Blue]

I hope Frazen's ok. A bad knee-to-knee hit against Chicago. Hopefully he wont be out too long.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Franzen is out for 3-4 weeks. He has a knee sprain. I guess it could be worse.

The Wings are calling up Ville Leino, the Fin they signed during the off-season. He was decent in the pre-season and showed some offensive flair.

[Pyser]

anyone see weights hit on sutter? crazy.

also forgot to mention someone threw a smokebomb in overtime at the devils-flyers game

you stay classy, philly fans.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by Pyser

anyone see weights hit on sutter? crazy.

also forgot to mention someone threw a smokebomb in overtime at the devils-flyers game

you stay classy, philly fans.

Was Santa on the ice?

[sterlingice]

Oddly enough Quenneville is 2-0-2 since taking over for the Hawks.

SI

[Maple Leafs]

You Ducks fans are absolutely right. That team is a mess and it's time for some accountability.

You need to fire your GM. Right now.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

You Ducks fans are absolutely right. That team is a mess and it's time for some accountability.

You need to fire your GM. Right now.

But aren't you afraid that if you hire Burke, you won't be able to deal with Kevin Lowe anymore? I mean, the horror!

[DeToxRox]

Honestly, I think the guy who could get the Leafs job is Stevie Y.

He's been very ominous when he talks about his future. He said how he wants to do more some day but Detroit has so many guys ahead of him and none of them are old, so that might not happen here.

Granted he is going to run Team Canada for the 2010 Games but I think Yzerman could be a fantastic GM next season if given the shot.

Plus, Burke is good but I think he fell into the Cup just on the fact he was able to steal Pronger like he did. Burke in Toronto almost feels like a trainwreck waiting to happen.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

Honestly, I think the guy who could get the Leafs job is Stevie Y.

He's been very ominous when he talks about his future. He said how he wants to do more some day but Detroit has so many guys ahead of him and none of them are old, so that might not happen here.

Granted he is going to run Team Canada for the 2010 Games but I think Yzerman could be a fantastic GM next season if given the shot.

Plus, Burke is good but I think he fell into the Cup just on the fact he was able to steal Pronger like he did. Burke in Toronto almost feels like a trainwreck waiting to happen.

Huh? I think you posted this looking through Yzerman-colored glasses.

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Huh? I think you posted this looking through Yzerman-colored glasses.

Yzerman is going to get a job somewhere. Hull isn't doing bad in Dallas and Yzerman has much more pedigree then he does with the World Championships and now the Olympics. You can do a lot worse.

Kudos to Burke for getting Pronger, but it isn't as if he's been an amazing GM outside of that one year. He had talent in Vancouver and they underachieved and Anaheim has been underacheiving since winning the Cup.

He is good, but people make Burke out to be a God for some reason, and I just don't get it.

[DeToxRox]

Dola, Yzerman has even said he has sat in on staff meetings when he playing. He's been learning from Kenny Holland, Scotty Bowman, Jim Nill, Jim Devalano, etc.

Is it early? Sure, it probably is, but he's been arounding great personnel men for years, and has learned under them for two years now, and has been trusted enough to be annointed the GM of the 2010 Canadian Olympic Team.

Seems like someone somewhere thinks he can do the job.

[samifan24]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

Hull isn't doing bad in Dallas

Isn't Hull the co-GM in Dallas?

[Draft Dodger]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

That's what I thought. They didn't call it in the first period of the Colorado-Buffalo game when Laperriere did it.

or later in the game when Adam Mair flat out punched Adam Foote in the face and then refused to fight.

the Kaleta / Lappy thing was interesting because it's the 2nd time Kaleta has pulled that against him. Two years ago, he and Lappy were jawing on a faceoff and agreed to fight. The whistle goes, Kaleta pretends to drop his gloves, Lappy drops his...and Kaleta skates off. No penalty on that one...instead, the Sabres scored in all the confusion.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

Yzerman is going to get a job somewhere. Hull isn't doing bad in Dallas and Yzerman has much more pedigree then he does with the World Championships and now the Olympics. You can do a lot worse.

Kudos to Burke for getting Pronger, but it isn't as if he's been an amazing GM outside of that one year. He had talent in Vancouver and they underachieved and Anaheim has been underacheiving since winning the Cup.

He is good, but people make Burke out to be a God for some reason, and I just don't get it.

Look, I'm not in the category of extending godlike status to Burke. I have criticized plenty of his moves, such as the Bryzgalov giveaway last year and for allowing the Penner situation to get to the point where we lost him to Edmonton.

But I'm not sure how you can think he hasn't done much unless you flat just don't like the guy, and especially if you're going to say Stevie Y with no experience is a better choice than he is. First of all, it's been A year-a season and the first month of this season--since the Ducks won the Cup. Just one. And it was a season torpedoed by the Niedermayer and Selanne situations. Everyone knows that. It forced Burke to make moves with Bertuzzi and Schneider that cost the team all the way to this month and even still now. One amazing year? You know the Ducks went to WCF in 2005, too, right, before getting Pronger? Where were your Wings? Yeah, at home.

Burke competed with many other offers on Pronger--Lowe himself, who says nothing nice about Burke, has stated that--so Pronger didn't fall into his lap. Lupul was the Ducks' best young talent at the time, and Smid their best young defenseman, and they gave away a few picks, too. Burke hired Carlyle. Burke signed Niedermayer and Selanne. He signed Jiggy to an extension when Jiggy could have walked for bigtime money back to Canada. Burke engineered a terrific draft last June that I think the organization is going to reaping the benefits from for years.

Burke also put a very strong team on the ice in Vancouver, and he;s not responsible for them underachieving (which, actually, they didn't; they were never as good as Colorado or Dallas or Detroit, so of course finished behind them often enough). Do you think Vancouver would have gotten anywhere without the Sedin twins? Who engineered that deal? Burke.

Burke has certainly made questionable moves--all GMs do--and on top of that he's an arrogant and chippy sonofaB.

But what you're saying makes me seriously consider whether I am going to even be putting much weight in what you say about hockey matters going forward. It's just that off. Let's have this convo when Yzerman has had a GM job and been at it for a while. Until then, gimme a break on Yzerman over Burke.

Come on, dude, it's Yzerman, and you're a Wings fan. You don't see the problem there?

[Maple Leafs]

Yzerman is a dark horse for the Leafs job, but there's been talk that the Leafs would be reluctant to hire another rookie GM after what happened with Johnny Shit-For-Brains.

[Fidatelo]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

Not sure. On the one hand, they sellout most games. On the other hand, their ticket prices are so discounted that they make less money per game than any other Canadian team, and seasons tickets were down over 10% this year.

The Canadian dollar won't hurt them any time soon because they hedged on it going down. But Melnyk estimates that they could lose $10-30M per season in two years if the dollar stays low, and that probably assume attendance stays up. If they have to rebuild, look out.

This team didn't go bankrupt and stop paying its players a few years ago by accident.

I think it will be interesting to see what happens to the Salary Cap next year if the dollar stays below 80 cents US for the rest of the season (which it likely will). Any chance the cap actually goes down?

[Oilers9911]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

But aren't you afraid that if you hire Burke, you won't be able to deal with Kevin Lowe anymore? I mean, the horror!

Brian Burke is a good GM but he is INCREDIBLY overrated. He has won a cup built mostly on the team his predecessor built and he left Vanvouver in a shambles that they are still trying to get out of today, not that I am complaining about that part of it. Burke is loud, opinionated and is a big name hence he is seen as the second coming of Sam Pollack. He is just not that good.

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by Draft Dodger

or later in the game when Adam Mair flat out punched Adam Foote in the face and then refused to fight.

the Kaleta / Lappy thing was interesting because it's the 2nd time Kaleta has pulled that against him. Two years ago, he and Lappy were jawing on a faceoff and agreed to fight. The whistle goes, Kaleta pretends to drop his gloves, Lappy drops his...and Kaleta skates off. No penalty on that one...instead, the Sabres scored in all the confusion.

I can't remember that from a few years ago. Kaleta is becoming an interesting player.

[RendeR]

Kaleta is one smart cookie. He's developed a reputation as a brawler and a heavy hitter and now everyone is pinging off on him and he's letting them screw themselves with penalties.

I find it hilarious.

[Dr. Sak]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

Yzerman is a dark horse for the Leafs job, but there's been talk that the Leafs would be reluctant to hire another rookie GM after what happened with Johnny Shit-For-Brains.

What a terrible last name. What's the chances he is going to find a girl with a hyphened last name For-Brains....and take it?!?!

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by RendeR

Kaleta is one smart cookie. He's developed a reputation as a brawler and a heavy hitter and now everyone is pinging off on him and he's letting them screw themselves with penalties.

I find it hilarious.

Me too. I just hope Ruff keeps him up when everyone comes back (which should start to happen this week). He's not a bad hockey player either.

I'm looking forward to tonight's game versus Ottawa. Should be interesting and fun.

I see Weber got called up for tonight's game.