Official 2008-2009 MLB Offseason Thread

[Buccaneer]

Is there a betting site (inTrade?) that offers up odds on being selected to the baseball HOF?

[watravaler]

White Sox sign another Cuban stud for $10 million...

Dayán Viciedo - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Love it! Only 19, but I wouldn't be suprised to see him starting at 3B come spring. Put up monster numbers at 16yrs old, shocked that the Yankees/Sox didn't out-bid the Sox here...

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by watravaler

White Sox sign another Cuban stud for $10 million...

Dayán Viciedo - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Love it! Only 19, but I wouldn't be suprised to see him starting at 3B come spring. Put up monster numbers at 16yrs old, shocked that the Yankees/Sox didn't out-bid the Sox here...

Dumb question: if he is under contract for only 5 years- why sign that deal if he's only 19 and under club control until his age 24 year? Didn't you just sign up to be his farm team and maybe get two years, absolute best case scenario, of good MLB service?

SI

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Dumb question: if he is under contract for only 5 years- why sign that deal if he's only 19 and under club control until his age 24 year? Didn't you just sign up to be his farm team and maybe get two years, absolute best case scenario, of good MLB service?

SI

No, they signed him for much longer than that. At the very least, it is the five years, and then his final arbitration year in his sixth year, and that's if he makes the big club this coming season and stays there for his whole contract.

At least if I understand it right. He is like any Dominican or Venezuelan free agent kid right now, but because he has a much more expanded resume as a Cuban national player, he can command a much bigger contract on the open market. But that doesn't mean he's exempt from CBA rules stating you can't become a free agent until you have six years of MLB service time. If the scenario you put out happens, he does three years in the minors (at a high price, he's still paid his contract), then he finishes that contract with two years in the bigs, and the White Sox still control his rights for four more years, or as long as they continue to offer him arbitration.

My only reservation on whether that's the case is to wonder what the situation is with older Japanese players. Take Dice-K for instance. When his deal runs out, do the Sox still have a couple years of "control" over him?

[Chief Rum]

I don't know how it affects Dice-K, BTW, but I do know that we have moved past the original terms of the Angels' deal with Kendry Morales, but he is still under club control (and I am really rooting for him to make the team and have a regular spot this year).

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Dumb question: if he is under contract for only 5 years- why sign that deal if he's only 19 and under club control until his age 24 year? Didn't you just sign up to be his farm team and maybe get two years, absolute best case scenario, of good MLB service?

SI

I think "if he's only 19" is the operative phrase.

[sterlingice]

Point well taken

SI

[Bad-example]

Egdar Renteria to Giants: 18M for 2 years.

Costs them a draft pick, but not too much of a risk.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

And it gets them younger!

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Bad-example

Egdar Renteria to Giants: 18M for 2 years.

Costs them a draft pick, but not too much of a risk.

Giving up a draft pick and committing $18 million to a declining SS who hit .270/.317/.382 last season may not be a risk, but its completely indefensible. Of course, this is brought to you by the same GM that thought Vizquel had another year left in him...

[Fighter of Foo]

Why the fuck wouldn't the Giants wait and see if Detroit at least offered arbitration before signing the deal? That's incredibly stupid.

At least since they sucked it's only a 2nd round pick (someone please correct if that's wrong).

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Fighter of Foo

Why the fuck wouldn't the Giants wait and see if Detroit at least offered arbitration before signing the deal? That's incredibly stupid.

At least since they sucked it's only a 2nd round pick (someone please correct if that's wrong).

You can't risk letting a key piece of your potential championship team sign someplace else.

[Bad-example]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Giving up a draft pick and committing $18 million to a declining SS who hit .270/.317/.382 last season may not be a risk, but its completely indefensible. Of course, this is brought to you by the same GM that thought Vizquel had another year left in him...

Ok, I am not thrilled by the move, but it is only 2 years and the contract isn't a huge burden. Last time he returned to the NL his numbers improved. Not too crazy to think he can rebound again, at least to some degree.

[MrBug708]

Why didnt the Giants go harder after Furcal?

[Bad-example]

Rotoworld changed their tune:

Rafael Furcal's agent, Paul Kinzer, said he is still talking to the Giants and doesn't believe the team has a deal with Edgar Renteria.
"Unless the Giants did it in the last 10 minutes, which I don't think they did, they weren't close," Kinzer told the San Francisco Chronicle. The Giants have denied that a Renteria deal is done.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by Bad-example

Egdar Renteria to Giants: 18M for 2 years.

Costs them a draft pick, but not too much of a risk.

Thank God Jocketty didn't strike first.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Didn't see this mentioned. Cubs and Royals are reportedly close to working out a trade. Teahan would go to the Cubs and 2B Fontenot and SP/RP Marshall would go to the Royals.

Teahen deal could be in works | royals.com: News

[Coffee Warlord]

No thank you. We have enough low-power outfielders, thank you. And I like Fontenot.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

No thank you. We have enough low-power outfielders, thank you. And I like Fontenot.

I think Teahan would benefit greatly from a move to the cozier ballpark. He's know in KC for always hitting the ball 5 feet short of the fences in Kauffman Stadium. He'd probably see a pretty good boost in HR production in Wrigley.

[lungs]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

My only reservation on whether that's the case is to wonder what the situation is with older Japanese players. Take Dice-K for instance. When his deal runs out, do the Sox still have a couple years of "control" over him?

Japanese players have it put into their contract that they are exempt from going through arbitration and thus are not bound by the service time requirements everybody else is.

So when Daisuke's contract is up, he is a free agent.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Didn't see this mentioned. Cubs and Royals are reportedly close to working out a trade. Teahan would go to the Cubs and 2B Fontenot and SP/RP Marshall would go to the Royals.

Teahen deal could be in works | royals.com: News

Yeah, that's been debunked pretty much everywhere as it doesn't make much sense for the Cubs. Maybe Fontenot or Marshall, but definitely not both and it really still doesn't make a ton of sense for the Cubs.

SI

[Bad-example]

Thought this was interesting. Adjustable ticket prices based upon demand. I wonder if it is something that could catch on. Any other clubs doing something like this? Hard to see someone deciding to go to the game because tickets might be 2 bucks cheaper.

ESPN - San Francisco Giants' ticket prices to change by the day

SAN FRANCISCO -- Next season, San Francisco Giants fans buying single-game tickets for an April game against Milwaukee might pay half as much as they would for a weekend game with the rival Los Angeles Dodgers later in the year.

The club is trying something new with ticket sales in a few tough-to-sell upper-deck outfield sections of its waterfront ballpark for 2009: cost based on demand.

The walk-up sales price for up to about 2,000 seats could even go up or down on game day. The change would be minimal, say somewhere between 25 cents and $2.

Team president Larry Baer calls it "dynamic pricing" and figures it might just become the way of the future for professional sports franchises. The Giants have partnered with a software company that will make it possible to quickly change the ticket prices based on the popularity of a given game -- not to mention weather, a possible milestone or a player from a visiting team who brings extra interest.

"We're going to experiment with this a little bit in a few sections of the park," Baer said. "What this really is, is the ticket business is changing dramatically and quickly. There's a chance we might wake up 10 years from now and tickets will be priced according to demand, like the airlines."

Baer said, for example, fans might spend $25 to see the Giants host a team like the Dodgers in August or perhaps even the always-popular Chicago Cubs in September, but might only charge $8 for the same seats in April when the Brewers come to the Bay Area.

The team plans to accept feedback from the fan base on how the process is working before determining whether to go forward with the same or a similar approach in 2010. The Giants -- minus the hype surrounding Barry Bonds and the All-Star Game they hosted in 2007 -- failed to reach 3 million in home attendance last season for the first time at their 9-year-old waterfront ballpark. It certainly didn't help the team played so poorly at home.

"We're talking hundreds of seats, not thousands of seats," Baer said. "We'll see how it works and how the fans like it. This would be a first. We have innovative people in our ticket office."

Baer vowed after the 2008 season ended not to increase ticket prices, especially considering the economic challenges. He said for the most part the team's prices will be flat for next year. Four or five categories will be stay the same, while two or three will go down and one section has gone up slightly.

For 2009 individual ticket sales, 50 percent of prices were reduced, 38 percent remained the same and 12 percent were increased. Of season tickets, 55 percent were either reduced or stayed the same and the other 45 percent had what Baer called "minor contractual increases." One section is up $2, he said.

Still, someone who shows up expecting to pay $10 to see a game could wind up spending a little bit more -- or less. The Giants also have worked on promotions that drop the ticket price based on the number of strikeouts a starting pitcher records or even deals at the concession stands.

"In sports, entertainment and theater, some tickets are on demand," Baer said. "This might be the way of the future."

[Logan]

The Mets have been doing something similar for a few years. There's platinum games (Yankees, Braves, Phillies, etc), gold, and silver (the random, uninteresting interleague teams, Brewers of old, etc), and they're all priced differently. I'm sure other teams have also done something like this.

It doesn't seem like what the Giants are doing special in this case would matter much.

[ISiddiqui]

Hell, even the Tampa Rays have this sort of arrangement (Yankees, Red Sox, and Cubs [when they have them] games cost more)

[Chief Rum]

Angels do this, too, for Yankees, Red Sox and Dodgers games at least. They may do it for some AL West opponents, too, and if the Cubs are on the schedule.

[Big Fo]

The Braves have slightly improved their sorry rotation by trading for the mediocre Javier Vazquez.

In exchange for Vazquez and relief pitcher Boone Logan, according to a report in the Atlanta Journal-Constituion, the Braves will send four young players to the White Sox: catcher Tyler Flowers, third baseman Jon Gilmore, pitcher Santos Rodriguez and infielder Brent Lillibridge. Lillibridge is a player White Sox GM Ken Williams has been after for awhile.

SportsIllustrated.com

[Bad-example]

The walk-up sales price for up to about 2,000 seats could even go up or down on game day. The change would be minimal, say somewhere between 25 cents and $2.

This seems like the unique part of the plan. Different prices based on opponent or day of the week is one thing, but prices fluctuating on game day is something I never heard of before.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Bad-example

This seems like the unique part of the plan. Different prices based on opponent or day of the week is one thing, but prices fluctuating on game day is something I never heard of before.

Yes it's unique but it's also pointless. Who is going to decide that now they will go see a Giants - Rockies game in the Upper Deck in September because a ticket only costs $15.50 instead of $16.25?

I'm willing to wager that the extra sales that come straight from this won't even cover the expense incurred to change the prices on a day to day basis from a resources standpoint.

[SirFozzie]

Nice, the Sawx sign MVP Dustin Pedroia to a 6 year, $40.5 Million deal. It works for both sides, Pedroia gives up two free agent years, and instead gets paid better over his one remaining minimum salary year, and his three arbitration years. Win-Win for all sides.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Big Fo

The Braves have slightly improved their sorry rotation by trading for the mediocre Javier Vazquez.

And gave up way too much to do so, specifically Flowers.

First an attempt to re-sign Mike Hampton, now this. I'm starting to think Frank Wren is not the right man for the job.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Nice, the Sawx sign MVP Dustin Pedroia to a 6 year, $40.5 Million deal. It works for both sides, Pedroia gives up two free agent years, and instead gets paid better over his one remaining minimum salary year, and his three arbitration years. Win-Win for all sides.

WOOF WOOF!!! LONG LIVE THE LIL DAWG!!!!

[watravaler]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

And gave up way too much to do so, specifically Flowers.

First an attempt to re-sign Mike Hampton, now this. I'm starting to think Frank Wren is not the right man for the job.

Agreed, JV only has value as #4/#5, as his confidence/mental issues make him all but worthless come playoff time. But he will give you 150 strong innings from April to July. When the games get "big", quite frankly, Vazquez shits in his pants.

[Big Fo]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

And gave up way too much to do so, specifically Flowers.

First an attempt to re-sign Mike Hampton, now this. I'm starting to think Frank Wren is not the right man for the job.

Yeah I'm not too knowledgeable when it comes to the Braves minor leaguers but I do recall reading in a few places that Flowers was the only potentially good catcher in the whole minor league system.

I was about to say "well maybe Boone Logan helps make the deal look better" but I just looked up his career statistics.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by watravaler

But he will give you 150 strong innings from April to July.

Which I'm guessing is what the Braves are looking for, as they wait/hope/pray for Hudson to return.

That part of the deal I don't have a problem with, but IMO they gave up way too much for what appears to be at best a stop gap measure.

[molson]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Nice, the Sawx sign MVP Dustin Pedroia to a 6 year, $40.5 Million deal. It works for both sides, Pedroia gives up two free agent years, and instead gets paid better over his one remaining minimum salary year, and his three arbitration years. Win-Win for all sides.

It Seems to good to be true for the Sox to lock him up until age 31 at pretty much what the Pirates pay Jack Wilson. And great security for Pedroia. I wonder why we don't more deals like this.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by molson

It Seems to good to be true for the Sox to lock him up until age 31 at pretty much what the Pirates pay Jack Wilson. And great security for Pedroia. I wonder why we don't more deals like this.

The players union doesn't like these sorts of deals since it typically buys out a couple of prime years so they put a lot of pressure on young players to not accept them

SI

[RedKingGold]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

The players agents don't like these sorts of deals since it typically buys out a couple of prime years so they put a lot of pressure on young players to not accept them

SI

Fixed.

[Fighter of Foo]

Originally Posted by Big Fo

Yeah I'm not too knowledgeable when it comes to the Braves minor leaguers but I do recall reading in a few places that Flowers was the only potentially good catcher in the whole minor league system.

I was about to say "well maybe Boone Logan helps make the deal look better" but I just looked up his career statistics.

Yeah I don't like the deal either, but it's because Vazquez is league average and probably inevitably overpaid, not that Flowers is some super prospect. He's Salty II IMHO and it's not like McCann's going anywhere.

[Mr. Sparkle]

Originally Posted by Bad-example

Egdar Renteria to Giants: 18M for 2 years.

Costs them a draft pick, but not too much of a risk.

Deal is now official, and since Detroit didn't end up offering arbitration, no draft pick was lost. Also inked Bobby Howry to a 1 year/2.75m deal. Really like the Howry deal, don't mind the Renteria one. A 2 year contract isn't much of a commitment, and it's not like he's blocking anyone. Burriss can compete for 2nd with Fransden and Velez. I expect some bounce back from Renteria this year as well.

It will be interesting to see if they really do go hard after Sabathia.

[johnnyshaka]

Rentaria now locked up in SF mean that Furcal signs in OAK shortly??

[Bad-example]

Put a big hitting corner outfielder on the Giants and you have to start taking them seriously in that weak division. I like the Affeldt and Howry signings and Renteria as a placeholder for 2 years without crazy dollars is ok by me.

[JonInMiddleGA]

It's time but it still makes me sad
ESPN - Greg Maddux to announce retirement Monday

Greg Maddux is all done.

The four-time Cy Young winner will announce his retirement Monday at the baseball winter meetings in Las Vegas.

Maddux turns 43 in April. He is eighth on the career wins list with 355, and went 8-13 last season with the San Diego Padres and Los Angeles Dodgers.

The announcement about his retirement came Friday from the office of his agent, Scott Boras.

[Big Fo]

My all-time favorite player and the best pitcher of his generation. Fuck Clemens, Johnson, and Martinez.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

I know we tend to put guys on pedestals when they retire, but that's just wrong. And Maddux was one of my favorites growing up in Chicago.

And that isn't even bringing in the fact that he had his own strike zone to help him along.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

I know we tend to put guys on pedestals when they retire, but that's just wrong.

I did that with Maddux long before today. Simply the greatest pitcher within my memory (I missed actually seeing Koufax), and quite possibly the best ever.

[Big Fo]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

And that isn't even bringing in the fact that he had his own strike zone to help him along.

You're probably right, Maddux, Glavine, and Smoltz were the only three pitchers in MLB history to ever get a borderline strike call.

[lungs]

My hat is off to Greg Maddux.

I wonder if he'll get into coaching like his brother?

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

I know we tend to put guys on pedestals when they retire, but that's just wrong. And Maddux was one of my favorites growing up in Chicago.

QFT

Maddux was definitely great, but I think Clemens and Martinez are definitely better (albeit for different reasons, Clemens for longevity at a very high level [higher ERA+ and winning % than Maddux while pitching a similar number of games], Martinez for the greatest peak pitching seasons in MLB history [97-03 has never and it is hard to imagine it will ever be touched in terms of brilliance])

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Maddux had the best career of anyone this generation. Clemens and Martinez were better pitchers.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by lungs

I wonder if he'll get into coaching like his brother?

My guess would be no, just doesn't seem like it would suit him. I could see him doing the spring training visit like ala Koufax at some point though.