Official 2008-2009 MLB Offseason Thread

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Nathan and Rivera--worth it. They shut their opponents down. When they come in, you get that "game over" feeling. I don't really get that with the other relievers, and I know firsthand you don't get that with K-Rod.

All that said, yeah, this year's depressed market certainly helped the Mets get a good deal next to past year's dealings for closers.

In response to SI's original question, I'll agree that Nathan and Rivera are worth those deals, and also to me are the only ones that are "better" deals than K-Rod's.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Logan

In response to SI's original question, I'll agree that Nathan and Rivera are worth those deals, and also to me are the only ones that are "better" deals than K-Rod's.

I agree. K-Rod's deal is better than all of the other ones he put up. A lot better, actually.

[SirFozzie]

(now, admittedly, I'm biased, because we don't have a new stadium, or any of that fun stuff)

I think it's REALLY hypocritical for New York teams to be handing out big contracts in this economy while crying to the State to help them with regards to their two new stadiums.

The city also plans to issue $341.2 million in additional tax-exempt bonds on behalf of the Yankees and Mets to complete the stadiums, whose combined cost is about $2.2 billion. The teams are responsible for paying off the bonds, but they pay tens of millions of dollars less in interest because payments to bondholders are exempt from city, state and federal taxes.

[Logan]

In fairness, they get the tax-exempt bonds because they can. If they didn't get them, they would still be handing out big contracts.

And the Mets' hand in that is about $83MM I believe.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Logan

In response to SI's original question, I'll agree that Nathan and Rivera are worth those deals, and also to me are the only ones that are "better" deals than K-Rod's.

ahem...Papelbon?

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Papelbon doesn't have a deal.

[DeToxRox]

From the WTF files ..

The Rangers have inquired about Gary Sheffield. I love Sheff but he needs to go. He is a drain on the payroll. If the Rangers offer a guy with a torn up elbow and will take most of the contract, I say god speed.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

ahem...Papelbon?

Re-reads the posts coming from that. Papelbon isn't one of the closers listed.

[SirFozzie]

Originally Posted by Logan

In fairness, they get the tax-exempt bonds because they can. If they didn't get them, they would still be handing out big contracts.

And the Mets' hand in that is about $83MM I believe.

So approximately $230 million in "assistance", saving them tens of millions of dollars. In the middle of the worst recession since the Great Depression.

Let's not forget that the Yankees can avoid paying more luxury tax by claiming stadium expenses. How is that bloody fair? (and yes, I know Boston has advantages because of owning NESN, etcetera allowing them to slide money about, but that's cents on the dollar compared to this)

[Chief Rum]

I love it when Red Sox fans and New York fans (either team) complain about available money and what not from the other teams.

[Neuqua]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

I love it when Red Sox fans and New York fans (either team) complain about available money and what not from the other teams.

+1

And I'm a Cubs fan, so I know better and just sit these things out.

[Logan]

My point is I don't follow your original connection between "team saves tens of millions because of the bonds" and "team spends big money on contracts." They would be spending that money regardless of whether or not they had to pay those taxes.

Whether or not the teams should be contributing less tax revenue than they could be in a time when the city is short of tax revenue is a separate debate. And I don't see where that blame doesn't first go to the city.

[Logan]

Hey don't pick on me, I'm not claiming poverty.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Hopefully the Royals fans will come in so we can all gang up on them instead.

[RedKingGold]

What do Yankees and Red Sox fans have in common?

Both teams' fans watched the Phillies win the World Series last year.

[RedKingGold]

I get at least three more months of this glory, so I'm going to squeeze every last bit of juice out of it.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Nathan and Rivera--worth it. They shut their opponents down. When they come in, you get that "game over" feeling. I don't really get that with the other relievers, and I know firsthand you don't get that with K-Rod.

All that said, yeah, this year's depressed market certainly helped the Mets get a good deal next to past year's dealings for closers.

What % of appearances have to be "lights out" for a guy to be a lights out closer?

Joe Nathan played in 68 games last year - and in only 26 of them did he not give up a hit or a walk. (38%)

[molson]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

I love it when Red Sox fans and New York fans (either team) complain about available money and what not from the other teams.

It is pretty silly, but maybe a little less so if you're in favor of a salary cap (I'm not complaining about the Yankees, I'd love to see a salary cap, know it will never happen, and root for contraction/relocation to more viable cities as a more realistic secondary solution to MLB's problems).

Sox fans SHOULD sit that discussion out, yes. But really, they should sit almost every discussion out.

-If you think the MLB economic system is fine, you're obnoxious
-If you think the MLB economic system is unfair (including the benefits to your own team), you're obnoxious
-If you can complain about a player holding out in the middle of a playoff race, you're obnoxious
-If you stick up for an asshole player or coach, you're obnoxious
-If you speak out against an asshole player, you're running him out of town unfairly.
-If you just talk about the success of the team, you're obnoxious.

(And yes, making a list like this is ABSOLUTELY obnoxious).

Oddly enough, the biggest asshole fans I ever came across weren't at Yankee Stadium, but at Coors Field. There's assholes everywhere. Most of them are newer fans, who come in with a college football mentality.

[DaddyTorgo]

oh - i thought we were talking about shutdown closers who were good value for the $$ they were making

[DeToxRox]

JJ Putz is a Met. Talk about fixing a pen.

10:17pm: MLB.com's Jim Street confirmed the deal. The Mariners give up Putz, Green, and Reed and get Heilman, Chavez, Carp, and Gutierrez. The Indians give up Gutierrez and get Valbuena and Smith. The Mets give up Heilman, Chavez, Carp, and Smith to get Putz, Green, and Reed.

[DeToxRox]

Also Ken Rosenthal reporting the Yanks are offering Burnett 5 years/91 mil.

Unreal.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

JJ Putz is a Met. Talk about fixing a pen.

10:17pm: MLB.com's Jim Street confirmed the deal. The Mariners give up Putz, Green, and Reed and get Heilman, Chavez, Carp, and Gutierrez. The Indians give up Gutierrez and get Valbuena and Smith. The Mets give up Heilman, Chavez, Carp, and Smith to get Putz, Green, and Reed.

Not a bad deal. Carp has some breakout potential, but most likely he ends up being a below average 1b. He's a good gamble for the Mariners. Heilman needed a change of scenery and hopefully for him the Mariners give him the chance to start that he's been pushing for. I'll take Reed over Chavez any time. Putz obviously fills a need.

[Lathum]

Really excited about these Mets deals. Plus I now have a reason to watch Mariners games. It's a win-win

[BishopMVP]

Red Sox looking at John Smoltz. I'd much rather have him for 1-2 years than any of Sabathia, Burnett, Lowe (reportedly offered 4/66m by NYY) or even Sheets at the numbers being thrown around.

[JetsIn06]

Tigers send OF Matt Joyce to the Rays for SP Edwin Jackson.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by RedKingGold

I get at least three more months of this glory, so I'm going to squeeze every last bit of juice out of it.

Especially in the event that it may be another 38 years, huh?

[JS19]

love the Putz deal, especially on top of signing KRod. not saying KRod is lights out material, but we needed a closer, got the best available, and only 3 yrs. I read the article on espn about Putz, his agent says he doesnt wanna be a setup man.

[TLK]

Originally Posted by JetsIn06

Tigers send OF Matt Joyce to the Rays for SP Edwin Jackson.

Joyce is going to be a stud. Horrible deal for the Tigers, who are having a horrible off-season.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

Hopefully the Royals fans will come in so we can all gang up on them instead.

Don't blame us. We're up to $70-75M in payroll now. That's crazy money for the Royals considering we only were spending $30M 5 years ago ($10M of which was Mike Sweeney).

[CleBrownsfan]

hxxp://sports.espn.go.com/espnradio/salary/index?athleteId=3708887

Salary Crunch

[Logan]

Originally Posted by JS19

love the Putz deal, especially on top of signing KRod. not saying KRod is lights out material, but we needed a closer, got the best available, and only 3 yrs. I read the article on espn about Putz, his agent says he doesnt wanna be a setup man.

Putz was quoted, "It’s a new challenge and I’m excited about it… I’m going to a new team that’s going to be very competitive. Francisco Rodriguez is a great closer and with Sean Green going as well, we should have a great bullpen."

So at least he should be okay for now. This is exactly what we needed. I was hoping Heilman could be wheeled for Street, but Putz is much more effective. The biggest piece given up is really Joe Smith, and Green should be able to fill his role.

Jeremy Reed was a fairly high profile prospect correct? Maybe we get lucky there but can anyone tell me about his speed/defense since it looks like he'll be filling Chavez' role.

P.S. 5 years, $91 million for AJ Burnett is infuckingsane.

[Dr. Sak]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

Especially in the event that it may be another 38 years, huh?

Do you mean 28?

[Scarecrow]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Don't blame us. We're up to $70-75M in payroll now. That's crazy money for the Royals considering we only were spending $30M 5 years ago ($10M of which was Mike Sweeney).

Add about 4mil to that number...

A source with knowledge of the negotiations told ESPN's Steve Phillips that Kyle Farnsworth has agreed to a two-year, $9.25 million deal with the Kansas City Royals, pending the results of a physical.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=37617466

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Scarecrow

Add about 4mil to that number...

A source with knowledge of the negotiations told ESPN's Steve Phillips that Kyle Farnsworth has agreed to a two-year, $9.25 million deal with the Kansas City Royals, pending the results of a physical.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=37617466

Good deal. We needed a setup man after trading away Nunez and Ram Ram.

By the way, I got a pretty good look at the Kauffman Stadium renovations a week ago. As nice as that stadium was before, it's going to be even better after they finish up the renovation. It already looks incredible and it's not even complete.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

JJ Putz is a Met. Talk about fixing a pen.

10:17pm: MLB.com's Jim Street confirmed the deal. The Mariners give up Putz, Green, and Reed and get Heilman, Chavez, Carp, and Gutierrez. The Indians give up Gutierrez and get Valbuena and Smith. The Mets give up Heilman, Chavez, Carp, and Smith to get Putz, Green, and Reed.

Awesome offseason so far for the Mets!

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Good deal. We needed a setup man after trading away Nunez and Ram Ram.

You still need a setup man .

[lungs]

Mike Cameron to the Yankees for Melky Cabrera..

Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel says the deal is close but not done, and Bill Hall could also be going the Yankees way to bring CC's buddies from Milwaukee to New York.

[JPhillips]

Please get Bill Hall out of the NL. He's been a Reds killer:

.303/.375/.613 with 54 RBIs in 66 games started.

I hate Bill Hall.

[lungs]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Please get Bill Hall out of the NL. He's been a Reds killer:

.303/.375/.613 with 54 RBIs in 66 games started.

I hate Bill Hall.

He was a Brewer killer last year, also.

.225/.293./.396

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Good deal. We needed a setup man after trading away Nunez and Ram Ram.

By the way, I got a pretty good look at the Kauffman Stadium renovations a week ago. As nice as that stadium was before, it's going to be even better after they finish up the renovation. It already looks incredible and it's not even complete.

Yeah, that's a bad deal. Farnsworth is not Riske, Dotel, or Mahay. A couple of months into the season, the Royals are going to be scrambling for someone to get the ball to the 9th and Soria.

I figured 1yr/$3M range but 2/9 is awful for him.

SI

[RedKingGold]

Phillies close to signing Chan Ho Park
By Tim Brown, Yahoo! Sports 13 hours, 23 minutes ago

LAS VEGAS – Free-agent pitcher Chan Ho Park, who resurrected his career with a solid year as a Dodger middle reliever, is close to signing with the Philadelphia Phillies, a baseball source said Wednesday.

The Phillies might view Park as a starter, the source said, although the 35-year-old right-hander made only five starts last season in 54 appearances. He was 4-4 with 79 strikeouts and a 3.40 ERA in 95 1/3 innings, mostly as a setup man.

Philadelphia has a strong bullpen, with right-handers Chad Durbin and Ryan Madson setting up closer Brad Lidge. However, the Phillies need a fifth starter if they don’t re-sign left-hander Jamie Moyer. Another Phillies pitcher, Kyle Kendrick, has been mentioned in the three- or four-team trade that would send Jake Peavy from the San Diego Padres to the Chicago Cubs.

Park has been a starter for most of his 13-year career but hasn’t been especially effective in that role since 2001

Please God no.

[Qwikshot]

Originally Posted by RedKingGold

Please God no.

He /won't/ be a starter. I'm still waiting to see what happens with the Peavy trade before I start jumping to conclusions. The Paulino trade may be actually to flip to the Marlins, so it seems the Phils are just in a holding pattern on potential deals.

[Fighter of Foo]

Originally Posted by Logan

Jeremy Reed was a fairly high profile prospect correct? Maybe we get lucky there but can anyone tell me about his speed/defense since it looks like he'll be filling Chavez' role.

He was. It turned out he has zero power whatsoever. He's not that fast either so think Jason Tyner+ without the speed. He's probably average defensively with a minus arm.

Big part of the trade, clearly.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Why didn't the Mariners wait until July or next winter to move Putz? It's obviously a buyer's market in general, but for closers it's an extreme buyer's market.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Fighter of Foo

He was. It turned out he has zero power whatsoever. He's not that fast either so think Jason Tyner+ without the speed. He's probably average defensively with a minus arm.

Big part of the trade, clearly.

Awesome, nice to have a reminder of our former 1st round pick.

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

Why didn't the Mariners wait until July or next winter to move Putz? It's obviously a buyer's market in general, but for closers it's an extreme buyer's market.

Wondered the same thing when I first heard they were making him available, but I also thought they'd be bringing more back in the deal than what they ended up with. Maybe Seattle is worried he won't bounce back from his injuries?

[adubroff]

Originally Posted by RedKingGold

Please God no.

I don't mind Park. He's not there to be your #2 starter, he's either the 5th starter or the 6th reliever. He's gotta eat innings and I'm sure he's not making a fortune. His fastball supposedly went up 4MPH last year so he's aging well. My only concern would be that Joe Torre might have worn him out which is his pattern with relievers.

[Fighter of Foo]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

Why didn't the Mariners wait until July or next winter to move Putz? It's obviously a buyer's market in general, but for closers it's an extreme buyer's market.

They got a good deal. Gutierrez fills an immediate hole in CF for cheap, Heilman will fill a bullpen spot, probably as a setup guy, and Chavez is Jeremy Reed except he can run and play defense. Throw in some middling prospects and it makes a lot of sense, especially since whoever closes won't have a whole lot to do.

[Logan]

"Fill a spot" is right.

"Adequately fill a spot" would have been going too far.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Yes, they got a bunch of adequate guys for what had been one of the better young closers around.

[Lathum]

Mariners did well.

Heilman is still very young and needed a change of scenery and Chavez plays gold glove caliber defense.