Front Office Football Central  

Go Back   Front Office Football Central > Main Forums > Off Topic
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read Statistics

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 05-28-2024, 12:17 AM   #10101
JonInMiddleGA
Hall Of Famer
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mota View Post

The problem with AEW right now is that it's not cool.

The problem with AEW is the lack of adult leadership, coherent booking, proper use of both TV-caliber talent AND not-ready-for-primetime "talent", and that's just the top of the list.

Get those items in order, and THEN worry about "being cool".

That ass backwards approach is a big part of how they ended up with the current clusterfuckery.
__________________
"I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis
JonInMiddleGA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2024, 10:18 AM   #10102
dubb93
Grizzled Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
I honestly believe if their PPV’s were more accessible that more eyes would watch the TV shows on a weekly basis. Hopefully they get with the times on this next rights deal.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by McSweeny
Because you know it takes sound strategy to get killed repeatedly on day one right?
dubb93 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2024, 11:43 AM   #10103
JonInMiddleGA
Hall Of Famer
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA
Adam Copeland confirms that he broke his leg during the PPV
__________________
"I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis
JonInMiddleGA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2024, 12:06 PM   #10104
RainMaker
General Manager
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
Quote:
Originally Posted by dubb93 View Post
I honestly believe if their PPVís were more accessible that more eyes would watch the TV shows on a weekly basis. Hopefully they get with the times on this next rights deal.

Their PPVs are genuinely good because they usually pit good wrestlers against each other and give them time. I didn't have interest in the recent one because I'm just not that into the hardcore match stuff. But their other PPVs have been great.

Their issue to me is the TV shows suck. They have a bloated roster so no one really gets over or consistent time. They'll showcase a wrestler for a few weeks and then you won't hear from them again for months. Everyone has a stable or belt. And for a show that was supposed to have a more sport like presentation, it's just too goofy with inside indy jokes I don't get. I still don't understand who the fuck Danhausen is or what the point of his character.
RainMaker is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2024, 12:08 PM   #10105
JonInMiddleGA
Hall Of Famer
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA
Quote:
Originally Posted by RainMaker View Post
I still don't understand who the fuck Danhausen is or what the point of his character.

He's the quirky indy character that's at least more entertaining than watching Pockets Cassidy. That stupidity got old after about two viewings.
__________________
"I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis
JonInMiddleGA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2024, 12:45 PM   #10106
dubb93
Grizzled Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by RainMaker View Post
Their PPVs are genuinely good because they usually pit good wrestlers against each other and give them time. I didn't have interest in the recent one because I'm just not that into the hardcore match stuff. But their other PPVs have been great.

Their issue to me is the TV shows suck. They have a bloated roster so no one really gets over or consistent time. They'll showcase a wrestler for a few weeks and then you won't hear from them again for months. Everyone has a stable or belt. And for a show that was supposed to have a more sport like presentation, it's just too goofy with inside indy jokes I don't get. I still don't understand who the fuck Danhausen is or what the point of his character.

I said nothing of the quality of the pay per views. But when one company is selling them for $1.99 and another $50 it’s going to influence what consumers decide to follow. I suspect there are more than a few people who WOULD watch but aren’t paying that price for a wrestling show in 2024. And if you don’t get to see the payoff why watch the build?

Peacock is 1.99 on Black Friday every year for 12 months. First responders(including volunteers), military, and teachers can score it for that price outside of Black Friday.

The cost to follow AEW is considerably higher than WWE right now. It’s something that makes the Netflix move interesting to me a bit. I wonder how many people unwilling to pay the price for Netflix swap to AEW(assuming something is done with the PPV rights.)
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by McSweeny
Because you know it takes sound strategy to get killed repeatedly on day one right?

Last edited by dubb93 : 05-28-2024 at 12:59 PM.
dubb93 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2024, 12:59 PM   #10107
RainMaker
General Manager
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA View Post
He's the quirky indy character that's at least more entertaining than watching Pockets Cassidy. That stupidity got old after about two viewings.

I think OC is entertaining but in the same way that Santino was entertaining. A decent comedy gimmick for the bottom of the card. Making him a champion for like a year and having him beat a bunch of top guys seems really bizarre.
RainMaker is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2024, 01:01 PM   #10108
JonInMiddleGA
Hall Of Famer
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA
Quote:
Originally Posted by dubb93 View Post
I I suspect there are more than a few people who WOULD watch but arenít paying that price for a wrestling show in 2024.

Yeah, Will is a LOT more lenient about that stuff than I am but even he looked over the card before the show and was like "nope, there's just not enough to justify $50 there". And it really wasn't all that close, despite him being bored.

It's a "how do you wanna approach it" thing at this point. Does the TV exist to sell the PPVs? If so, TV would have to be a LOT better. Do the PPVs exist to drive people to the TV? If so, PPV would have to be a LOT more reasonably priced.
__________________
"I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis
JonInMiddleGA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2024, 01:05 PM   #10109
JonInMiddleGA
Hall Of Famer
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA
Quote:
Originally Posted by RainMaker View Post
I think OC is entertaining but in the same way that Santino was entertaining. A decent comedy gimmick for the bottom of the card. Making him a champion for like a year and having him beat a bunch of top guys seems really bizarre.

The most notable thing he accomplished was ending my interest in ever seeing Shibata in the ring again.

Having that character do anything other than destroy Cassidy in about two minutes exceeds my ability to suspend disbelief for anything involving Shibata.

Even if (as publicly stated) that matchup was Shibata's idea, it ended his career for me. If it's what he wanted to do, fine by me ... I simply don't have any interest in ever seeing him again after it was done.
__________________
"I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis
JonInMiddleGA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2024, 02:44 PM   #10110
Mota
College Benchwarmer
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Now that Wrestlemania season is over, I think AEW is putting out a better product than WWE again. Solo Sikoa is not a highlight character, and he is getting exposed with all the airtime he is getting. You can really see how much of a boost they got from The Rock being a part of that storyline, and they definitely miss him. Cody needs some heels to go against, and there aren't any great heels that are built up to face him right now.

I agree about AEW having too many titles. Get rid of ROH immediately. The continental trophy should be a tournament and not a title. And the FTW title is not real, they should not be defending it. The more titles they have, the less they mean. And I think that about WWE with their two world titles. You can't be the champion of the world when you're not even the champion of your own company.
Mota is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2024, 03:16 PM   #10111
dubb93
Grizzled Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
I wouldn’t say that them missing The Rock is why the WWE product is awful right now so much as missing a piece of every story the company had going(CM Punk missing from the Drew story, Seth is gone from any RAW title storyline they have going, The Rock and Roman from the Bloodline, Rhea was the only watchable female and she’s gone, Judgement day countering Dom and Rhea being out with adding Carlito is another whiff) is really taking a toll. Watching all the TV they have going with basically zero hot storylines is painful.

They have tried to counter lack of story with just tossing good wrestlers together and giving them time but I’m not feeling it at all right now.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by McSweeny
Because you know it takes sound strategy to get killed repeatedly on day one right?

Last edited by dubb93 : 05-28-2024 at 03:19 PM.
dubb93 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2024, 03:32 PM   #10112
JonInMiddleGA
Hall Of Famer
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mota View Post
And the FTW title is not real, they should not be defending it.

Welllll, hold on now. It IS (sorta) "real", it's just ... unofficial.

I mean, Taz actually owns the rights to it and it dates back to 1998 (a title literally older than a few on the AEW roster).
__________________
"I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis

Last edited by JonInMiddleGA : 05-28-2024 at 03:33 PM.
JonInMiddleGA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2024, 03:34 PM   #10113
dubb93
Grizzled Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
It really feels that this is how HHH is going to book though. Look at post SummerSlam last year. It was the same crap. Shinske Nakamura headlined a couple of PLEs during that time frame and Cody was tossed into a throwaway tag team with Jey Uso. He really seems to be a 4 PLE kind of guy with everything else being kinda throwaway.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by McSweeny
Because you know it takes sound strategy to get killed repeatedly on day one right?
dubb93 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2024, 09:15 PM   #10114
JonInMiddleGA
Hall Of Famer
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA
Channel surfing during hockey playoff intermission led to us seeing not one but two surprise appearances on NXT tonight.

I'll avoid spoiling in case anybody here actually watches but the male debut in particular seems like a not half bad idea.
__________________
"I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis
JonInMiddleGA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2024, 10:33 PM   #10115
dubb93
Grizzled Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Just realized after actually finishing RAW that USA didn't show Liv and Dom kissing. Quite the fuckup considering WWE's twitter account has changed the profile picture (I'm old no clue if I'm using the correct social media terms here) to the two of them kissing and Dom has commented on it on twitter as well.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by McSweeny
Because you know it takes sound strategy to get killed repeatedly on day one right?

Last edited by dubb93 : 05-28-2024 at 10:34 PM.
dubb93 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2024, 11:34 AM   #10116
dubb93
Grizzled Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
To further illustrate my point on pricing, Peacock Premium is $1.67 a month for a full year right now if you sign up. That will get you a full years worth of WWE PLEs including SummerSlam and next years WrestleMania for approximately $20.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by McSweeny
Because you know it takes sound strategy to get killed repeatedly on day one right?
dubb93 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2024, 01:09 PM   #10117
Mota
College Benchwarmer
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
In Canada unfortunately we don't have Peacock. You have the janky version of the WWE Network which is just a TV station on our cable packages.
I am looking forward to it moving to Netflix next year.
Mota is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2024, 08:14 PM   #10118
dubb93
Grizzled Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Another thing that AEW doesn’t seem to get. I recorded Dynamite last night and the damn recording ended before the show did. Why would you book your show to go past where standard DVRs record? Mind boggling.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by McSweeny
Because you know it takes sound strategy to get killed repeatedly on day one right?

Last edited by dubb93 : 05-30-2024 at 08:20 PM.
dubb93 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2024, 10:09 AM   #10119
Mota
College Benchwarmer
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Just finished Double or Nothing. Mercedes Mone looked okay, definitely seemed a bit hesitant about her foot. Similar to Seth Rollins when he came back after his bad ACL injury a few years ago. I think she'll get more comfortable over time.
Sad that Adam Copeland broke his foot. That jump off the cage was very risky, he ended up undershooting a bit and landed more on his feet than through the table.
Anarchy match was pretty crazy. Not really my thing, but it was definitely carnage. The flamethrower spot was insane, obviously Jack Perry was covered in some sort of fire retardant liquid, but he was actually on fire. Can't say I've ever seen that before, and probably don't need to see it again.
I loved the spot where the Young Bucks go to superkick Darby, and they pumped up their new Reeboks first. Such a heel move.
Definitely the women's division is doing really well right now, Toni Storm is on fire. Mariah May is a superstar in the making. Willow is over with the fans. Statlander is going to be a good heel, she definitely needs a mouthpiece, so it could work for her.
Mota is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2024, 07:38 AM   #10120
Toddzilla
Pro Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Burke, VA
Quote:
Originally Posted by dubb93 View Post
Another thing that AEW doesnít seem to get. I recorded Dynamite last night and the damn recording ended before the show did. Why would you book your show to go past where standard DVRs record? Mind boggling.
Like basically every televised sporting event ever? Hmm, good question.
Toddzilla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2024, 12:59 PM   #10121
dubb93
Grizzled Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toddzilla View Post
Like basically every televised sporting event ever? Hmm, good question.

Wrestling is a sporting event now? No. Itís a predetermined product. Live sports will also auto extend on most DVRs (mine included.) Itís a booked show that ends whenever Tony says it ends. If TNT and Tony want it to go long they need to correct the listing to include the overrun like WWE did when they had one. I donít even have a way to extend recordings besides I guess manually recording what is on after Dynamite each week.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by McSweeny
Because you know it takes sound strategy to get killed repeatedly on day one right?
dubb93 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2024, 01:26 PM   #10122
JonInMiddleGA
Hall Of Famer
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA
Minor random from BoSJ but ... glad to see Kushida look better than in recent months, AND I appreciate that he's not unwilling to put over some young talent. Definitely no ego issues there, so good on him.
__________________
"I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis
JonInMiddleGA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2024, 04:41 PM   #10123
NobodyHere
Grizzled Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
__________________
"I am God's prophet, and I need an attorney"
NobodyHere is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2024, 02:02 AM   #10124
JonInMiddleGA
Hall Of Famer
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA
Idle musing prompted by Will's current trip (he saw NOAH last night, going to GLEAT show tonight, has NJPW Dominion coming up this weekend)

In Japan, Korakuen Hall is sort of "the mother Church" for pro wrestling.

Built in 1962, seats around 2,000, it's basically a sports venue, mostly used for various combat sports. Wrestling, kickboxing, boxing, etc. It's like playing The Apollo, or for rock/metal like playing The Whiskey or the other big Sunset Strip nightclubs of the era. It's not Madison Square Garden or Carnegie Hall, it's more the right of passage before you get there.

Anyhow, until this trip I don't think I realized just how busy the venue stays. On average, it looks like there's 3-5 puroresu shows a week there, with other combat sports other nights. And I started thinking about how very different that is versus the U.S.

I know, different geographies, different status & structure for pro wrestling, all that. But still ... there's not a city in the U.S. that I can think of where you could easily see 150 wrestling shows a year, and there never has been. At most, some places had weekly and additional irregular events, but I'd think that even Atlanta, Memphis, etc in the prime years topped out around 75-100 shows a year.

Tokyo, the epicenter of puroresu, with soooooo many companies using it as their primary base, it's just a really different situation that I almost struggle to get my head around when I try to actually think about it.
__________________
"I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis
JonInMiddleGA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2024, 07:27 AM   #10125
Mota
College Benchwarmer
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
That's pretty cool, Jon. I'd love to go to Korakuen Hall, it is basically just a big gym, but it's pretty iconic. The entrance is pretty funny, the wrestlers have to walk unprotected right past the seating area, and it is pretty tight. Some of the NJPW setups where they'd have the English commentators right there and would talk to the wrestlers on the way in.

So I've made a slight change to my wrestling watching, I've dropped WWE after the post-WM blahs. And added Marigold. So I'm now watching NJPW, AEW, Stardom and Marigold. Watching the Stardom All Star Grand Queendom from April right now and it is just incredible, the 4 way tag team title match was insane. So many good matches, one after another.
Mota is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2024, 08:40 AM   #10126
JonInMiddleGA
Hall Of Famer
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mota View Post
That's pretty cool, Jon. I'd love to go to Korakuen Hall, it is basically just a big gym, but it's pretty iconic. The entrance is pretty funny, the wrestlers have to walk unprotected right past the seating area, and it is pretty tight. Some of the NJPW setups where they'd have the English commentators right there and would talk to the wrestlers on the way in.

During the intermission of tnoight's DDT/Gleat joint show, he went out for a beeru.

Long lines, he got back just as the introductions began. He literally went to his seat between the ref heading to the ring and Chris Brookes being introduced. And he even commented to me via message that "people just acted like that was the most normal thing in the world" lol
__________________
"I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis
JonInMiddleGA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2024, 08:56 AM   #10127
Mota
College Benchwarmer
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA View Post
During the intermission of tnoight's DDT/Gleat joint show, he went out for a beeru.

Long lines, he got back just as the introductions began. He literally went to his seat between the ref heading to the ring and Chris Brookes being introduced. And he even commented to me via message that "people just acted like that was the most normal thing in the world" lol

Awesome. That's exactly some of the weirdness of that venue. I'm sure he is having a great time!
Mota is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2024, 09:05 AM   #10128
JonInMiddleGA
Hall Of Famer
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mota View Post
Awesome. That's exactly some of the weirdness of that venue. I'm sure he is having a great time!

He had so much fun at the DG show Tue night that he went back for the Gleat/DDT on Wed. And still has Dominion in Osaka coming up this weekend.

Sidebar: both nights, the Giants game at the Dome next door let out at virtually the same exact moment. He said last night was the most utter & complete madness he'd ever been caught in (and he's been to multiple SEC games with 80k +). He literally just stepped back off the sidewalk and let about 20k go past to avoid being swept by it.
__________________
"I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis
JonInMiddleGA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2024, 09:17 AM   #10129
JonInMiddleGA
Hall Of Famer
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA
Oh, and a fun unplanned memory for posterity. He actually saw this pop up in his Twitter feed.

The pale green shirt & the backwards hat is someone you all "know"

x.com
__________________
"I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis
JonInMiddleGA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2024, 01:27 PM   #10130
RainMaker
General Manager
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA View Post
Idle musing prompted by Will's current trip (he saw NOAH last night, going to GLEAT show tonight, has NJPW Dominion coming up this weekend)

In Japan, Korakuen Hall is sort of "the mother Church" for pro wrestling.

Built in 1962, seats around 2,000, it's basically a sports venue, mostly used for various combat sports. Wrestling, kickboxing, boxing, etc. It's like playing The Apollo, or for rock/metal like playing The Whiskey or the other big Sunset Strip nightclubs of the era. It's not Madison Square Garden or Carnegie Hall, it's more the right of passage before you get there.

Anyhow, until this trip I don't think I realized just how busy the venue stays. On average, it looks like there's 3-5 puroresu shows a week there, with other combat sports other nights. And I started thinking about how very different that is versus the U.S.

I know, different geographies, different status & structure for pro wrestling, all that. But still ... there's not a city in the U.S. that I can think of where you could easily see 150 wrestling shows a year, and there never has been. At most, some places had weekly and additional irregular events, but I'd think that even Atlanta, Memphis, etc in the prime years topped out around 75-100 shows a year.

Tokyo, the epicenter of puroresu, with soooooo many companies using it as their primary base, it's just a really different situation that I almost struggle to get my head around when I try to actually think about it.

I am incredibly jealous. That sounds like an incredible experience. If you're willing to share any photos from his trip there, it would be amazing.

Like you said, there is like nothing like that in the United States. Maybe back in the regional days (didn't WCCW do their shows at a famous building?) or I guess the old ECW arena (name is alluding me) in Philly which used to also host local boxing matches.
RainMaker is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2024, 06:17 PM   #10131
JonInMiddleGA
Hall Of Famer
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA
Quote:
Originally Posted by RainMaker View Post
I am incredibly jealous. That sounds like an incredible experience. If you're willing to share any photos from his trip there, it would be amazing.

Like you said, there is like nothing like that in the United States. Maybe back in the regional days (didn't WCCW do their shows at a famous building?) or I guess the old ECW arena (name is alluding me) in Philly which used to also host local boxing matches.

World Class = The "World Famous" Sportatorium

And yeah, I thought about including Viking Hall / ECW Arena / now 2300 Arena
__________________
"I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis
JonInMiddleGA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2024, 06:42 PM   #10132
dubb93
Grizzled Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Does anyone think any US city is even capable of supporting something like this? Would, say a 2000 seat venue in Chicago, Philly, New York, Vegas or LA be able to stay booked and draw crowds if they committed to combat sports and wrestling or would it be a big loser? I know my local area has atleast 10-15 wrestling companies(that I know of) running anywhere from weekly to monthly shows as well as a few MMA and boxing promotions and the occasional tough man I see advertised on Facebook. There are also the random traveling midget wrestling shows. Why do they all run in different venues instead of consolidating to a more specialized venue that caters to them specifically?

Also can throw in that your boy is taking one of my dream vacations. Hope he’s having the time of his life.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by McSweeny
Because you know it takes sound strategy to get killed repeatedly on day one right?
dubb93 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2024, 09:06 PM   #10133
JonInMiddleGA
Hall Of Famer
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA
Quote:
Originally Posted by dubb93 View Post
Does anyone think any US city is even capable of supporting something like this? Would, say a 2000 seat venue in Chicago, Philly, New York, Vegas or LA be able to stay booked and draw crowds if they committed to combat sports and wrestling or would it be a big loser? Why do they all run in different venues instead of consolidating to a more specialized venue that caters to them specifically?

I really don't think it'd work here. The money doesn't feel like it'd add up.

A lot of that is, I think, cultural. You know the stigma that's associated with pro wrestling here, that's far less in Japan. It seems a lot more okay for a young salaryman to get off work, catch a train and be at the venue by 6p on a Wednesday night than it would be here. And they're doing it weekly, sometimes more than once a week.

It's been interesting to hear his observations about the crowds at Korakeun. For example, the NOAH show was at least 60% female, in a crowd of what he figured was north of 300. DDT/Gleat last night was smaller, a little more male, but also younger, a fair number even younger than him (he's 26 now for context). Usually in groups of 2-8, most of the groups were male & female. He also noted that last night was a "very DDT crowd" he was one of the distinct minority reacting to the Gleat performers strongly, most there didn't seem to know who most of them even were. To the extent that he actually noticed CIMA and some of the other Gleat older hand watching him / his reactions from the balcony with some interest as the night went on.

Compare that to an U.S. indy crowd, where basically the people you'd see at an (old days) ROH show are the same faces at a PWG show or a puro/lucha show or a GCW show, etc etc. The company cultures are strong enough in Japan, with enough differentiation at even the lower levels that you can stay in your lane & still do okay. The interest is broader overall, so there's leeway to sort of specialize (for the fans).

There's a lot of cultural stuff wrapped up in all that I think. Here, we tend to scream about our individualism (or whatever) from 9-5, then fall into mostly safe niches after hours. There, it seems like the reverse is true, rigidity from 9-5 and then virtually anything goes after hours.

Quote:
Also can throw in that your boy is taking one of my dream vacations. Hope heís having the time of his life.

Thanks. He's enjoying himself a lot I believe, though so far he's still feeling the effects of the long travel day a bit. He's been wanting to do this for a very long time now, I can't even tell you how many years of YouTube videos -- travelogue stuff like Abroad In Japan, countless food videos starting with Strictly Dumpling and expanding into many many others, on & on -- have been watched.

Then NJPW of course, which had followed naturally from his interests in the visiting workers that made such an impact in ROH, and over the past several years he's done a good job of working his way back through puroresu history (there are several really good YTers in that niche). He was 7 to 10 years old when Marafuji & Morishima and the rest were coming over and having classics with guys like Samoa Joe, Bryan Danielson and others who were already his favorites (being a TNA/ROH fan far more than a WWF fan).
__________________
"I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis
JonInMiddleGA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2024, 11:05 PM   #10134
JonInMiddleGA
Hall Of Famer
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA
Little detail from Will's arrival at Osaka-Jo Hall for Dominion

"They could stand to direct us americans better. All NJPW signs in Japanese"

Me: what part of fuck you don't you understand?

That's a very real thing honestly, and it's almost kind of curious. Top level puroresu is still less inviting to non-Japanese fans than pretty much any aspect of the country he's seen. Extra hurdles to jump through for tickets for example, less English integration than DDT/Gleat show, far less welcoming than the Giants game. Combine that with a venue layout (outside) that's poorly conceived and poorly organized and , well, it's a damned good thing he got there 3 hours before the show. It'll take more than an hour for him to pick up his actual ticket (only allowed to do in person for foreigners, who must show multiple forms of ID including their required NJPW Fan Club badge)

It's not like he/we weren't aware of that beforehand, but it's kind of interesting to see it in real time versus what has been a trip with not much of that sort of thing evident in any other aspect. for example, he's actually encountered the (in)famous "English menu surcharge" only one time in his first week there

I'm just not sure being intentionally more difficult than other entertainment options is a lane that's the best choice for them to make, one of any number of questionable marketing decisions that NJPW in particular has made in recent years.
__________________
"I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis

Last edited by JonInMiddleGA : 06-08-2024 at 11:23 PM.
JonInMiddleGA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2024, 02:23 AM   #10135
JonInMiddleGA
Hall Of Famer
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA
Dunno if this will work but since photo(s) was requested earlier, I'll say that he doesn't lack for a good seat. Literally behind the Japanese announce position

https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=....1031139067686

I can't get it to imbed so if you want to see then click the link I guess :/


edit to add: and to my delight, I finally managed to get a superwide long shot so I could find him (and I do mean long).
https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=....1031139067686
__________________
"I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis

Last edited by JonInMiddleGA : 06-09-2024 at 05:35 AM.
JonInMiddleGA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2024, 03:46 AM   #10136
JonInMiddleGA
Hall Of Famer
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA
NJPW announces changes to the traditional format for the upcoming G1 Climax

Back to 20 entrants in two blocks ... first 18 participants will be announced next week ... last two slots will be determined by a sort of play-in tournament taking place during the upcoming Soul tour.

THEN, once G1 kicks off, the top THREE finishers in each block will advance ... Top scorers in A & B Block will get byes to the semifinals, 2/3 will meet for the right to advance to that final four.
__________________
"I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis
JonInMiddleGA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2024, 08:11 PM   #10137
RainMaker
General Manager
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
I don't know what the ideal number of participants is but I'm glad they are cutting the field. It just got to be way too much.
RainMaker is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2024, 08:37 PM   #10138
JonInMiddleGA
Hall Of Famer
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA
Quote:
Originally Posted by RainMaker View Post
I don't know what the ideal number of participants is but I'm glad they are cutting the field. It just got to be way too much.

16-20 feels right to me honestly.

And going back to two blocks is probably an even better change. The 4 block shit was simply impossible to follow, and if you have no clue how things stack up -- even if you're watching every single match -- then it really loses any sense of drama, importance, or anything other than an incoherent slog.
__________________
"I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis
JonInMiddleGA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2024, 05:44 AM   #10139
Mota
College Benchwarmer
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Not a fan of 3 people advancing. It's like expanding the field in college football, or adding more wild card teams to baseball. It devalues the regular season. You could go 5-4 , finish in 3rd and go on to win the tournament, depending on how things go.

Even with 2 people advancing, you'd be looking at a minimum of 6-3 barring any shenanigans to advance.
Mota is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2024, 05:52 AM   #10140
JonInMiddleGA
Hall Of Famer
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mota View Post
Not a fan of 3 people advancing. It's like expanding the field in college football, or adding more wild card teams to baseball. It devalues the regular season. You could go 5-4 , finish in 3rd and go on to win the tournament, depending on how things go.

Even with 2 people advancing, you'd be looking at a minimum of 6-3 barring any shenanigans to advance.

But if you look at it as "quarterfinals", it's only 6 people instead of the 8 people that were produced by the 4-block setup.

I don't love the attempt to create faux excitement/opportunity, but I don't hate it either.

edit to add: this same format was apparently used with a 16 man /2 block field back in 2004
__________________
"I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis

Last edited by JonInMiddleGA : 06-10-2024 at 05:59 AM.
JonInMiddleGA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2024, 12:46 PM   #10141
RainMaker
General Manager
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
I don't mind more advancing because otherwise a lot of the matches just have no meaning. With 6 advancing, you can hopefully book meaningful matches top to bottom. Mix in some "spoilers" at the bottom of the table.

I'm just glad they are reducing the whole thing. It was way too hard to keep up with and there were too many wrestlers I just didn't care to even see. And I'm not opposed to "play-in" style matches to make the G1. Make it like the World Cup where some have to qualify.
RainMaker is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2024, 07:43 PM   #10142
Mota
College Benchwarmer
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
I'm basically a year behind in my NJPW viewing, and I'm really digging the 2023 Best of the Super Jrs. I just finished up everybody's 6th match out of 9.
The matches have to be relatively short since they have to do 10 matches in about 2.5 hours, but even the first matches have the potential to surprise.

I enjoy the NJPW tournament format.
Mota is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2024, 08:31 PM   #10143
JonInMiddleGA
Hall Of Famer
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mota View Post
I'm basically a year behind in my NJPW viewing, and I'm really digging the 2023 Best of the Super Jrs. I just finished up everybody's 6th match out of 9.
The matches have to be relatively short since they have to do 10 matches in about 2.5 hours, but even the first matches have the potential to surprise.

I enjoy the NJPW tournament format.

Damn, I really didn't care for parts of last years BoSJ. YMMV of course, and that's fine.

fwiw, 2024 just completed is considerably better. Most of the returning participants were better than last year across the board and the new entrants were definitely more positive than negative.
__________________
"I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis
JonInMiddleGA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2024, 09:28 PM   #10144
RainMaker
General Manager
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
Does anyone think an American promotion could pull off the NJPW style tournament format? WWE has been putting more emphasis on tournaments, but I think that's about as far as they'll go. TNA used to have their points based tournament back in the day.

AEW would be perfect for it since they have so much TV time each week (could make one of their shows strictly for the tournaments), good wrestlers, and barely any storylines. But TK is gonna TK.
RainMaker is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2024, 10:46 PM   #10145
JonInMiddleGA
Hall Of Famer
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA
Quote:
Originally Posted by RainMaker View Post
Does anyone think an American promotion could pull off the NJPW style tournament format? WWE has been putting more emphasis on tournaments, but I think that's about as far as they'll go. TNA used to have their points based tournament back in the day.

AEW would be perfect for it since they have so much TV time each week (could make one of their shows strictly for the tournaments), good wrestlers, and barely any storylines. But TK is gonna TK.

That's been a discussion over the years down here in the batcave and our general conclusion is probably not.

The problem would be the complaints about 50-50 booking, and by nature that's where most entrants end up. Less of an issue for AEW since that's how so many get booked anyway but I don't think

Also, harder to give it the necessary gravitas with the schedule that'd be required here vs the grueling demand of the structure there. The exhaustions, the injuries, the sheer grind of the G1 Climax is part of the story, a character unto itself almost. 6 days off between matches in the U.S. for television, that'd be lost and I believe it would absolutely hurt things.
__________________
"I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis
JonInMiddleGA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2024, 11:34 PM   #10146
Mota
College Benchwarmer
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
They did have the Continental Classic in AEW last year, which is like a very lite version of the G1. It was 2 groups of 6, I believe.
You really need to have the fans trained to believe that wins and losses matter. This is actually a good way to reinforce it.
Mota is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2024, 05:30 AM   #10147
JonInMiddleGA
Hall Of Famer
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA
ďNOAH and WWE will make a major announcement at the BUNTAI event in Yokohama on June 16th!

ďA message from a certain wrestler is also being released!Ē

403 Forbidden
__________________
"I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis
JonInMiddleGA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2024, 10:39 AM   #10148
dubb93
Grizzled Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
They are heading in the wrong direction with this forbidden door stuff. It hasn’t worked for AEW and it’s not going to work for WWE. Joe down the street doesn’t care about TNA or NOAH and honestly doesn’t have the time to invest to figure it out on top of all the WWE TV time that already exists. Catering to the 1% is what AEW does. WWE really needs to avoid that.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by McSweeny
Because you know it takes sound strategy to get killed repeatedly on day one right?

Last edited by dubb93 : 06-12-2024 at 10:40 AM.
dubb93 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2024, 01:13 PM   #10149
RainMaker
General Manager
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
I think it's just sharing some talent they aren't really using. My guess is they send Nakamura who they really aren't using much for an event or two. I think they are sending Iyo Shirai to a Marigold event as well.

The TNA partnership seemed more about finding some warm bodies since NXT lost a bunch of people to the main roster. Their champs didn't seem to have any real credible threats to face.
RainMaker is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2024, 02:39 PM   #10150
JonInMiddleGA
Hall Of Famer
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA
Quote:
Originally Posted by dubb93 View Post
They are heading in the wrong direction with this forbidden door stuff. It hasnít worked for AEW and itís not going to work for WWE. Joe down the street doesnít care about TNA or NOAH and honestly doesnít have the time to invest to figure it out on top of all the WWE TV time that already exists. Catering to the 1% is what AEW does. WWE really needs to avoid that.

Then again, Joe Hendry is more entertaining than at least 95% of their roster.
__________________
"I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis
JonInMiddleGA is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 8 (0 members and 8 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:11 PM.



Powered by vBulletin Version 3.6.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.