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Old 01-24-2020, 03:42 PM   #21101
RainMaker
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Both should have been impeached and removed from office. We should have higher standards for leaders. Clinton committed perjury and used his position of power to have an affair with a subordinate. Maybe that doesn't fall under "high crimes" but we should expect more. Trump tried to bribe a foreign country by withholding Congressionally approved taxpayer funds till the country investigated his political rival. Puts national security at risk and shit that should be for banana republics. Sure it's politicized now but that doesn't mean you shouldn't report the right thing.

Last edited by RainMaker : 01-24-2020 at 03:43 PM.
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Old 01-24-2020, 03:48 PM   #21102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chief Rum View Post
You're pointing out one exception and using it as a counterpoint to another poster saying that partisan politics is prevalent.

Am I understanding that correct?

So... what does "always" mean in your dictionary?

Quote:
Originally Posted by larrymcg421 View Post
But if we need more examples, then the 2011 debt ceiling was also not along partisan lines, as it included votes from 45 Democrats and 28 Republicans. The House version of that same bill was 174 Republicans and 95 Democrats.

Yep. He literally used the debt ceiling as an example of always partisan voting when the recent history of it just hasn't really been the case. And the 2011 debt ceiling crisis was just due to saber rattling statements by some GOP leaders that lead to a delay in approving it. Not to mention the debt ceiling has been raised or suspended 19 times since 2000. How many times did you see partisan saber rattling? Twice?
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Old 01-24-2020, 04:10 PM   #21103
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The condensed story of the debt limit:

Both sides played games with the debt limit, but neither party went so far as to use it to hold the government hostage, knowing how damaging that could be.

And then one day the GOP began using it to take hostages as a standard tactic.
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Old 01-24-2020, 04:19 PM   #21104
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Originally Posted by RainMaker View Post
Both should have been impeached and removed from office. We should have higher standards for leaders. Clinton committed perjury and used his position of power to have an affair with a subordinate. Maybe that doesn't fall under "high crimes" but we should expect more. Trump tried to bribe a foreign country by withholding Congressionally approved taxpayer funds till the country investigated his political rival. Puts national security at risk and shit that should be for banana republics. Sure it's politicized now but that doesn't mean you shouldn't report the right thing.

I agree both should have been impeached but differ somewhat on rationale. Clinton because of perjury, don't really think an affair rises to the level. Trump for pushing a foreign country to investigate a political rival, not necessarily the act of withholding of aid which I believe, right or wrong, is done (or similar) all the time.
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Old 01-24-2020, 04:24 PM   #21105
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Originally Posted by Edward64 View Post
I agree both should have been impeached but differ somewhat on rationale. Clinton because of perjury, don't really think an affair rises to the level. Trump for pushing a foreign country to investigate a political rival, not necessarily the act of withholding of aid which I believe, right or wrong, is done (or similar) all the time.


But, the OMB came out and said, "that was against the law." It's hard to argue the right or wrong part, and it's harder to speculate on the 'I think it's done all the time' when there's no other documentation of it, and furthermore, if we take that logic and put it back on the Nixon administration, then, shouldn't we believe that what he did was normal and 'happens all the time'?
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Old 01-24-2020, 04:26 PM   #21106
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I have never heard of aid being withheld till you can get a personal favor done.


The affair thing doesn't bother me, but the fact it is with a subordinate makes it different. Lot of CEOs get the boot for doing that. McDonalds just fired theirs. Don't want people working in the White House thinking they need to fuck the President to keep their job (or move up).
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Old 01-24-2020, 04:34 PM   #21107
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Though in fairness, in the late 90s was when that stuff started to be really not ok. I remember going to law school in the early 2000s, and one of the professors had married one of his law students and it was just about that time that people were like, I dunno if that's ok (where a lot of older folks were like what's the issue, it was after she graduated, etc).
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Old 01-24-2020, 04:50 PM   #21108
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There's nothing savvy about an argument that because a past impeachment was partisan, no impeachment can ever be valid again.
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Old 01-24-2020, 04:54 PM   #21109
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lol

They copied the Starfleet logo.

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Old 01-24-2020, 04:58 PM   #21110
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If Trump appoints William Shatner as Secretary of the Space Force then I will become a Trump supporter.
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Old 01-24-2020, 05:06 PM   #21111
RainMaker
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That logo is cool as fuck.
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Old 01-24-2020, 07:09 PM   #21112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by larrymcg421 View Post
The difference between the words prevalent and always might be useful here.

But if we need more examples, then the 2011 debt ceiling was also not along partisan lines, as it included votes from 45 Democrats and 28 Republicans. The House version of that same bill was 174 Republicans and 95 Democrats.

Panerd saying it is "always" partisan is of course incorrect. It only takes one to disprove him, so he set hinself up to fail there.

But it is entirely disingenious for you or Issidiqui to do so and not acknowledge that his general point that partisanship reigns heavily at Congress is true. The extremely partisan nature of today's poltiics is why we're where we are today.
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Old 01-24-2020, 07:12 PM   #21113
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lol

They copied the Starfleet logo.


It's quite honestly one of the best things Trump has done. It's totally half-assed and stupid and typical of his particular idiocy, but it is really effing cool.
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Old 01-24-2020, 07:35 PM   #21114
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Old 01-24-2020, 08:20 PM   #21115
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It also tells me that whoever "designed" the logo knew he wasn't getting paid because we all know there's no way they asked whoever owns the rights to Star Trek.
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Old 01-24-2020, 08:25 PM   #21116
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With any other administration, if you saw something like that released, you'd assume it was homage to Star Trek and was likely done with their knowledge.

With this administration everyone knows it was half-assed, no one was asked before using their copyright, and Trump probably has no idea what Starfleet is but it sounds cool so use it.
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Old 01-24-2020, 09:00 PM   #21117
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While it is obviously influenced by the UFoP logo, there are enough different elements to have a law suit dismissed.
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Old 01-24-2020, 09:18 PM   #21118
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New Court Documents Reveal That Corruption at the Trump Inaugural Fund Went to the Very Top

Any other timeline, this would be all it would take to impeach & remove The Criminal In-Chief. I hope he lives long enough so he and his family can go to jail.
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Old 01-24-2020, 11:26 PM   #21119
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Pompeo explodes at NPR reporter, asks if she could find Ukraine on a map | TheHill
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Old 01-24-2020, 11:33 PM   #21120
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I love that he just had an unlabeled map at the ready.
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Old 01-24-2020, 11:47 PM   #21121
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lol

They copied the Starfleet logo.


To be fair, the Air Force committed THAT act of plagiarism a while ago; this is just an updated version of that plagiarism.
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Old 01-24-2020, 11:50 PM   #21122
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To be fair, even NASA copies logos.

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Old 01-25-2020, 12:03 PM   #21123
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So the defense is wrapping with the Moscow Mitch theory of you can’t do this in an election year.
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Old 01-26-2020, 04:10 PM   #21124
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Being reported that 3 rockets hit the U.S. embassy in Iraq.
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Old 01-26-2020, 04:10 PM   #21125
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Anyone else seeing reports of 3 rockets hitting the US embassy in Baghdad?
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Old 01-26-2020, 04:20 PM   #21126
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I love that he just had an unlabeled map at the ready.

You don't carry a map around to randomly challenge people with geography questions?

You're slacking.
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Old 01-26-2020, 04:24 PM   #21127
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You don't carry a map around to randomly challenge people with geography questions?

You're slacking.

I'd give Trump a 50/50 chance of finding Ukraine on the map simply because I'm sure he's been in enough briefings that it's stuck by now.

Outside of that I'd put the over/under on number of countries he can point out on a map at 15.
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Old 01-26-2020, 04:31 PM   #21128
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I'd give Trump a 50/50 chance of finding Ukraine on the map simply because I'm sure he's been in enough briefings that it's stuck by now.

Outside of that I'd put the over/under on number of countries he can point out on a map at 15.

I could maybe see him staring at the real-time flight map on his private planes (if those exist on private planes), and sending up instructions to the pilot on the direction they should go. Maybe he could pick up a few country names that way.

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Old 01-26-2020, 04:48 PM   #21129
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You don't carry a map around to randomly challenge people with geography questions?

You're slacking.

It's part of how the administration operates. Trump handed out copies of his electoral map victory to people all the time the first year or two
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Old 01-26-2020, 08:39 PM   #21130
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According to the NY Times, in John Bolton's unpublished book, he says Trump told him in August that he wanted to continue freezing Ukraine's assets until they helped with investigations into Biden and other Democrats
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Old 01-26-2020, 10:08 PM   #21131
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Don’t worry. It’s a nothing burger. Everything is. The R’s in Congress are too far up Trump’s ass to see common sense if it smacked them in face.
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Old 01-26-2020, 10:28 PM   #21132
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Don’t worry. It’s a nothing burger. Everything is. The R’s in Congress are too far up Trump’s ass to see common sense if it smacked them in face.


You know, the funny thing is, that spattered across my FB feed in NKY, it is 100% the opposite. Not a shocker, but it's certainly indicative of the current state of affairs.
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Old 01-26-2020, 10:33 PM   #21133
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Dems should be careful about Bolton. I get that the enemy of my enemy is my friend and all that, but he's still a don't-trust-him-as-far-as-you-can-throw-him kind of guy.
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Old 01-26-2020, 10:45 PM   #21134
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Dems should be careful about Bolton. I get that the enemy of my enemy is my friend and all that, but he's still a don't-trust-him-as-far-as-you-can-throw-him kind of guy.


Yep, he's nothing that should be celebrated. It should be one piece, not some sort of of shocking revelation that the world hinges on. How many other people do we deserve to hear from, who was barred from testifying? They get tunnel vision, lose focus, and can't keep their expectations straight.
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Old 01-27-2020, 08:39 AM   #21135
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While Dems see the Bolton confirmation of a quid pro quo as a smoking gun, recall that one (among the many) lines of defense that Cult 45 has tossed out there is that of course they held up the aid, get over it, but it's not for personal politics, it's just that there's a national interest in Ukriane being rid of internal corruption.

And while that's pretty preposterous on its face to me/us, surely there are 50 or so GOP Senators who will find that perfectly adequate to hang their hats (and place in history) upon.
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Old 01-27-2020, 08:48 AM   #21136
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I think it's as simple as, the trial will be over before the State of the Union. That's always been the plan so that he can take a victory lap. There isn't time to call witnesses and meet that deadline, so there won't be any witnesses regardless of what news breaks.
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Old 01-27-2020, 09:29 AM   #21137
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https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/27/o...witnesses.html
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Old 01-27-2020, 09:38 AM   #21138
QuikSand
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The "will he?" angle is a fascinating twist...
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Old 01-27-2020, 10:22 AM   #21139
bronconick
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Hoping for Roberts to do that is a sign of how screwed this country has been for 3+ years
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Old 01-27-2020, 08:15 PM   #21140
JPhillips
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John Bolton - Hardcore leftist

I didn't see that coming a few years ago.
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Old 01-27-2020, 08:26 PM   #21141
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John Bolton - Hardcore leftist

I didn't see that coming a few years ago.

We've seen it with Flake, Bob Mueller, and others but the line for what's considered a leftist by most Trump supporters just moved several miles to the right. We're a couple more scandals away from Steven King being a moderate.
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Old 01-27-2020, 08:28 PM   #21142
Edward64
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With credit going to Pink Floyd ... "Another brick in the wall".

I assume a Democratic administration can reverse this relatively easily.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/27/polit...rge/index.html
Quote:
The Supreme Court in a 5-4 vote Monday cleared the way for the Trump administration to make it more difficult for low-income immigrants seeking to come to or trying to remain legally in the United States.

The so-called public charge rule, unveiled in August, impacts people who rely on public assistance, including most forms of Medicaid, food stamps and housing vouchers.

It made national headlines last summer when then-acting Director of US Citizenship and Immigration Services Ken Cuccinelli, in his defense of the rule, revised the iconic poem on the Statue of Liberty's pedestal, saying: "Give me your tired and your poor who can stand on their own two feet and who will not become a public charge."

Advocates and several states immediately opposed the rule, arguing that the changes would penalize immigrants who rely on temporary assistance from the government and impose costs on the states.

Monday's vote split along ideological lines, with the five conservative justices in the majority.
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Old 01-28-2020, 06:00 PM   #21143
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McConnell says he currently does not have enough Republican votes to block witnesses
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Old 01-28-2020, 06:45 PM   #21144
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McConnell says he currently does not have enough Republican votes to block witnesses

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/mcc...es-bolton-book

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Old 01-28-2020, 07:40 PM   #21145
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When your strategy is this "GOP doesn't have votes yet to block impeachment witnesses"...I just don't know what to say when it is written in black and white.
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Old 01-28-2020, 10:02 PM   #21146
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We all knew it would happen, but it's still gob smacking to see the GOP jump to a defense of, sure he did it, who cares?
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Old 01-28-2020, 11:42 PM   #21147
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The plan is public now and as expected Israelis like it and the Palestinians say its DOA.

IMHO the Palestinians just need to negotiate the best deal possible for them now and move on with their lives/country (e.g. bet the Clinton sponsored plan looks pretty good right 15+ years later). Won't be perfect especially since everyone knows who has most/all leverage and the other Arab countries are too busy dealing with other things e.g. the Palestinian problem is now Page 5.

$50B over 10 years doesn't seem to be enough. It should be increased to really sweeten (e.g. bribe) the deal.

My guess is there is "some" give in all except for #2.

Trump’s Israel-Palestine peace plan, explained - Vox
Quote:
What the new peace plan actually says

There’s a lot to this document, but there are four major elements of the new political proposal in particular you need to know about: 1) Israel keeps the vast majority of Jerusalem as its sovereign capital; 2) Palestinians get no right of return; 3) it redraws borders mainly between Israel and the West Bank; and 4) doesn’t allow for Palestine to create a fighting force to defend itself.
:
:
Dubbed “Peace to Prosperity,” the economic plan was billed as “a vision to empower the Palestinian people to build a prosperous and vibrant Palestinian society.” The administration claimed it had “the potential to facilitate more than $50 billion in new investment over ten years.”

Last edited by Edward64 : 01-28-2020 at 11:43 PM.
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Old 01-29-2020, 06:05 AM   #21148
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Saw this elsewhere, and it caused a chuckled.

ALL THE WITNESSES: Ok we all agree. This is what happened.

REPUBLICANS: None of you were in the room!

BOLTON: *raises hand* Well I was in the...

REPUBLICANS: Who asked you?! Shut up! You’re a liberal pawn!

BOLTON: Um... I’m actually I’m a lifelong Republican and I was literally Trump’s national security advi...

REPUBLICANS: Shut your mustache! Somebody bring back the first national security advisor.

FLYNN: *in orange jumpsuit* Hey sorry guys I’m in jail lol.

REPUBLICANS: What? Why?

FLYNN: For lying to the FBI about the Russia investigation.

REPUBLICANS: Well what idiot told you to do that?!

FLYNN: The Pres...

REPUBLICANS: Shut up! No one believes either of you!

KELLY: *raises hand* I believe them. And I was Trump’s Chief of sta...

REPUBLICANS: Shut up! Let’s talk to the real chief of staff. Who is he?

MULVANEY: *raises hand* It’s me.

REPUBLICANS: Shit. Never mind.

PARNAS: *raises hand* I was also in the room. In fact, here’s a cell phone video of the President saying that...

REPUBLICANS: Wait what?! How in hell did you sneak a cell phone into a meeting with the President?

PARNAS: It was easy I just walked right in and...

REPUBLICANS: Shut up! You’re a criminal!

PARNAS: Correct. And I just walked right into...

TRUMP: I don’t know him.

PARNAS: And here’s 500 pictures of me with the President because we’re besties.

REPUBLICANS: Wait... What idiot introduced you to the President??

PARNAS: His personal lawyer.

REPUBLICANS: Cohen??

COHEN: *also in orange jumpsuit* Hey no sorry guys I’m in jail too.

REPUBLICANS: Why?

COHEN: For campaign finance violations.

REPUBLICANS: Who’s campaign?

COHEN: The Pres...

REPUBLICANS: Shut up!

PARNAS: It was Giuliani.

YOVANOVITCH: Giuliani! That’s the guy who had me fired from my job!

REPUBLICANS: Who are you??

YOVANOVITCH: I was the ambassador to Ukraine.

REPUBLICANS: Wait, you had her fired? Do you work for the government??

GIULIANI: Nope.

REPUBLICANS: Well who is the ambassador to the European Union??

SONDLAND: *raises hand* Me. I was also in the roo...

REPUBLICANS: [email protected]$&!!!

PUTIN: *rubs his bare chest*
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Old 01-29-2020, 08:09 AM   #21149
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I’m not a fan of Trump’s tweets, but I’ll give credit where it’s due. His point that if he’d listened to John Bolton “we’d be in World War Six by now” is pretty funny.
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Old 01-29-2020, 08:37 AM   #21150
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I’m not a fan of Trump’s tweets, but I’ll give credit where it’s due. His point that if he’d listened to John Bolton “we’d be in World War Six by now” is pretty funny.


trump repeating opposition (to Bolton's nomination) talking points and calling them his own, IS funny.
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