WW LXVI: Money Money Money (Game Over!)

[Barkeep49]

What bad form not to even put in an appearance. This is a crisis and Swaggs couldn't even be bothered to give a how do you do. Yes the strings that were pulled to make sure his largest customer switched business was well worth it. The man is destitute now. Bankrupt. Sure he wasn't a Cutthroat, but he didn't really seem like one of you either.

In other news you hear that the following services were won:
Private Investigator - $7500
Friend of the Bank - $7
Government Insider - $30000

You hear about this and feel for that poor bodyguard. He didn't get one cent richer today. That seems almost as tragic as the now certain death to come tonight.

Final Vote Count:
Lathum – hoops (110)
Swaggs – Alan (149), Lathum (155), Pass (156), Render (157), Mr. W (168), The Jackal (192), saldana (198), path (215), Schmidty (229), Tyrith (231)
Sndvls – mauboy(151)
Mau – Sndvls (190)
Hoops – Chief Rum (201)
Jackal – claphams (205)

[claphamsa]

7$? WTF!

[Tyrith]

I figured something like that would happen with that. But in this game increments less than 5,000 dollars aren't easily useable, so I didn't bid on that.

No one bid on the BG...that's insanely lame, but again something I figured might happen. But there's a good case to be made for everyone putting out some small bid on something, because these services can help.

More later.

[SnDvls]

looking at the "jobs" again I'd be willing to be the wolves bid for the Gov't insider by pooling their funds...I hope I'm wrong though.

It's a service that is good until the end of the game and could be a game changer.

[Tyrith]

Originally Posted by SnDvls

looking at the "jobs" again I'd be willing to be the wolves bid for the Gov't insider by pooling their funds...I hope I'm wrong though.

It's a service that is good until the end of the game and could be a game changer.

Well, 30k is a single person max, so it didn't necessarily have to be two people.

[SnDvls]

Originally Posted by Tyrith

Well, 30k is a single person max, so it didn't necessarily have to be two people.

this is true, I was more thinking along the lines of them having really only one "bid" person, but it still works with one emptying thier pockets too.

[Lathum]

I think they did 30K to throw us off .

Something Hoops would do.

[Barkeep49]

Everyone should have received a PM telling them how much cash they have available to them at the moment. If you wish to change between what you have on hand and in the bank now is the time to do so. I did NOT include money that you have in CDs. That money is still yours, but the PM strictly stated cash immediately available to you.

[Alan T]

I don't want to talk much about what I did or didn't do with my bid while it is night time. I would rather leave less information for the wolves to go on for their night target. I'll give my thoughts tommorrow morning.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Alan T

I don't want to talk much about what I did or didn't do with my bid while it is night time. I would rather leave less information for the wolves to go on for their night target. I'll give my thoughts tommorrow morning.

so are you saying you bidded?

[Lathum]

well?

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Lathum

so are you saying you bidded?

I am not going to say anything until the morning. If I bid and won a bid, then I would have less money and be less attractive to them. If I bid and lost a bid, I would have more money and be more attractive to them.

I think the best approach is wait for the sun to rise and give my thoughts.. that way they have to take a guess on going after me and getting nothing, or very little cash, or getting money I may have.

I am hoping others do likewise, any discussion regarding what we did with our bids can easily be had tommorrow.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Lathum

well?

Sheesh, impatient much? Ever consider I might be doing other things than just hitting F5 here? I'm kind of busy trying to update a bbcf league web page right now.

[Lathum]

It seems to me alan is trying to hide something

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Lathum

It seems to me alan is trying to hide something

Yes... I kind of said I was hiding it. I'll give my thoughts in the morning. What is so important to you that you MUST have that information right now?

Either I am a wolf, and I will be around in the morning, or I am a good guy, and even if I get night killed I don't have some evil agenda I am hiding from you.

The better question is why are you so anxious to get this information out for the wolves to use at night?

[Alan T]

And just like that he leaves the conversation.

[hoopsguy]

Alan, clearly you have an agenda

No surprise on Swaggs, although I am surprised that people did not get votes in and lost out on the 15K.

[Swaggs]

Hey guys --

Apologies to Barkeep and all. I believe there must have been a misunderstanding, as I did not sign up to play in the game. BK sent me a PM a few days ago and I told him I would check out the thread when I got a chance, but I have been busy between work/school and have the in-laws in for a visit, and never replied to confirm or decline. I noticed that I had a PM from BK right before I left for work today, but I didn't have time to reply or check in.

Sorry again--hopefully it didn't screw things up too badly.

[Tyrith]

Now, about this...

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

If I'm you, I'm wondering why Tyrith is pinning the runaway on you more than I'm wondering about me trying to orchestrate your doom. I'm not, it is pretty much coincidence that you came up in those quotes on a day that you were my "not-so-random" Day 1 vote.

The post he's referring to.

Originally Posted by Tyrith

Yeah, I know that feeling. But the problem is that the idea makes too much sense. The vote that strikes me as the worst is Lathum's hit and run that started the landslide, but after what you've said then who the heck knows what that means. Probably nothing, but it's a data point at least.

I made it pretty clear there that all I was doing was pointing out a slight possibility. And the reasons why I pointed that out would be pretty obvious -- there were two votes made immediately after him on the same target, which under a lot of circumstances would be seen as a point of interest. No big deal there, no pursuit. So why the language designed to set him against me? I know you're being good ol' hoops, always trying to stir up some action and ask questions :P Manipulation, however, will be frowned upon.

[hoopsguy]

Well, I am hoping to understand Day 1 a little better than I do at the moment - guilty as charged.

From your vantage point, were you surprised at Passacaglia's response to your post?

[Tyrith]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Well, I am hoping to understand Day 1 a little better than I do at the moment - guilty as charged.

From your vantage point, were you surprised at Passacaglia's response to your post?

Not really. Pretty normal back and forth. At least someone was saying something.

[Tyrith]

I remember when we used to be night owls, too :P

[RendeR]

Holy crap, someone really wanted that government insider bid. Empty pockets anyone?

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by RendeR

Holy crap, someone really wanted that government insider bid. Empty pockets anyone?

Here's a thought. Unless the wolves can pool their money, someone bid all of their cash to buy the insider. And guess who will know who it is? The winner of the Friend in the Bank.

[Chief Rum]

I can't wait for revelations, as I will be leaving before night ends, and won't be back until after the late deadline.

I am sticking with my vote from today, as I still have a funny feel for hoops' play so far. I also included an alternate choice if hoops gets a visit from the Cutthroats. Hopefully Barkeep will allow this.

VOTE HOOPSGUY (and if he gets killed tonight, VOTE ARLES)

[Chief Rum]

Something to note: My vote for Hoops and then Arles is not intended to be two votes (with one costing $10K). It's either one or the other, with the Arles vote only taking place if hoops gets killed tonight. Essentially this is a conditional vote that I don't want to "count" until after the night results are out, and the conditional is no longer necessary.

Also, I will bold the vote here, so it stands out more. This is NOT a second vote for either party.

VOTE HOOPSGUY (and if he gets killed tonight, VOTE ARLES)

[Barkeep49]

You pick up the morning newspaper to find out that overnight Lathum was killed. He was reportedly beaten to death. Police report the murder weapon appears to be a football trophy of some sort. His beneficiary hoopsguy could not be reached for comment.

Day 2 has now begun

[Barkeep49]

Today's services you may bid for are:
Friend at the Bank: Learn amounts all players have in the bank
Bodyguard Firm: Winning player protected from attacks. Must be used Night 2.
Private Investigator: Will learn the side (Cutthroat or Rich) of 1 player. Must be used night 2.
Telecommunications Mogul: May choose on Day 3 to either block all Cutthroat communication, or to allow all players PM rights.

Please remember that you should include the service and bid amount in the title of your PM. One of yesterday's winners would have been a loser, but the should have been winner didn't use the formatting and his bid was overlooked.

[saldana]

i heart barkeep's sense of humor.

[saldana]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Here's a thought. Unless the wolves can pool their money, someone bid all of their cash to buy the insider. And guess who will know who it is? The winner of the Friend in the Bank.

this is incorrect.

all the winner of the friend will know is who has money in the bank....he will no nothing about who has how much cash on hand

[saldana]

Originally Posted by SnDvls

this is true, I was more thinking along the lines of them having really only one "bid" person, but it still works with one emptying thier pockets too.

the cutthroats can move money via pm, so it could have been two of them combined

[claphamsa]

mornign all!

[hoopsguy]

Wow, crowded house this morning. Wish I could stay and chat a little longer but I have to get to a client through a foot of snow

Lathum, sorry to see you dead so early. Thanks for thinking of me as beneficiary - I'll try to put the cash to good use.

For what it is worth, I had initially listed Swaggs as my beneficiary. Path said last night that he didn't think he had a chance of being my choice, given that he was a wolf that helped me get killed as a villager. But the opposite was true - I decided to "reward" one of the two guys who did that, but chose Swaggs instead of Path. That is one of the reasons I was disappointed to see how yesterday went down. I had to put in 10K to change my beneficiary last night or risk seeing my money lost from the game.

I'll look to check in again later this morning and see if anyone has published new information. I'm hoping that there is at least one person out there who will be cleared courtesy of the seer service.

[Schmidty]

My suggestion: Whoever wins the auction for the Seer ability needs to check out hoops now that he's rooolllllling in the dough.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Wow, crowded house this morning. Wish I could stay and chat a little longer but I have to get to a client through a foot of snow

Lathum, sorry to see you dead so early. Thanks for thinking of me as beneficiary - I'll try to put the cash to good use.

For what it is worth, I had initially listed Swaggs as my beneficiary. Path said last night that he didn't think he had a chance of being my choice, given that he was a wolf that helped me get killed as a villager. But the opposite was true - I decided to "reward" one of the two guys who did that, but chose Swaggs instead of Path. That is one of the reasons I was disappointed to see how yesterday went down. I had to put in 10K to change my beneficiary last night or risk seeing my money lost from the game.

I'll look to check in again later this morning and see if anyone has published new information. I'm hoping that there is at least one person out there who will be cleared courtesy of the seer service.

Heh, it is interesting that you say that. I also chose Swaggs as my beneficiary originally too. That is why I wanted to give him a chance to show up yesterday. Was bad luck that I picked someone who wasn't around.

Some other thoughts from yesterday.. Anyone have any idea what the tie-breaker for bidding on services was? I bid 30k yesterday on the Government Insider service, but did -not- get it. One of the reasons I didn't want to comment too much last night is because I failed to get the service, I ended up with that cash plus the 15k from voting all on hand last night. I realized that would make a juicy target for the wolves and also realized if too many other people commented about failing to bid for services, or how much they bid on things, that would directly help the wolves know who to go for.

Hoops, I have a big question for you, you mentioned thanking Lathum for the cash he passed on, but my understanding was that on wolf kills, they got the money from the person they killed unless it was in the bank? I didn't win the friend of the bank, so perhaps that was just a case of lathum passing you cash from the bank is all this is. I'm guessing that at least could be something verifyable from whomever did win the friend of the bank.

Other thoughts about the services that were from yesterday.. I think whomever bought the seer service should reveal who they scanned. Since you arent a true seer, and it is just a one time thing, the risk/reward of the reveal is heavily weighted to revealing to try to start a circle of trust.

For the friend of the bank service, I am hesitant to push for whomever won that to reveal any information from that as it might help the wolves more than us.. but some things that would be good to know.. Does anyone have more than 30k in the bank? Can you verify how much money hoops may or may not have gotten from Lathum? Other than that, I think it is too risky to go much further.

Finally.. I am still troubled about how the government insider service was won. I bid everything i had, so couldn't go any higher. Maybe the tie-breaker is simply the first one to submit, or the last one to submit or something else.. but part of me is worried that the tiebreaker goes to a wolf over a villager or something along those lines to "balance gameplay" or something. I worry that a wolf ended up winning the service.

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by Alan T

I worry that a wolf ended up winning the service.

Or maybe a wolf didn't win it. Just sayin'.

Why am I just sayin'? Because I am bored at work.

[Alan T]

Dola,

Also regarding chief's vote for hoopsguy.. I realize that Chief voted before the night results were out, so unless he is a wolf, he wouldn't know of any night event that may or may not have implicated hoops.. I think the wise choice here would be to not bankrupt Hoopsguy today regardless if his response about getting the money from Lathum after he was wolf killed doesn't add up. Since Hoops is likely the richest among us, I think based on risk/reward once again we should consider trying to keep him around and as Schmidty says whomever wins the seer service should scan him tonight.
If he is a wolf, it would turn up with the scan, and we can take care of him then. If he is a villager, it would be nice to keep him and his horde of cash around as we want as much money for our side as we can get. I'm actually leaning more towards voting for Chief Rum right now off of gut instinct, but since you can't unvote I'll hold off quite a while on that.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

Or maybe a wolf didn't win it. Just sayin'.

Why am I just sayin'? Because I am bored at work.

Possibly that is the case.. I just was suprised that I didn't win it. I put my bid in early in the day for it and assumed I won a couple of the possible tiebreakers. Barkeep's rules says the tiebreaker is not random, so when I didn't win, I got a bit worried.

As for today's services:

Friend at the Bank: Learn amounts all players have in the bank
Bodyguard Firm: Winning player protected from attacks. Must be used Night 2.
Private Investigator: Will learn the side (Cutthroat or Rich) of 1 player. Must be used night 2.
Telecommunications Mogul: May choose on Day 3 to either block all Cutthroat communication, or to allow all players PM rights.


Once again, I think we don't have to overbid a ton on the bodyguard or private investigator services, it doesn't matter which of us gets it, I think they should end up scanning hoops tonight. The big one that I think the wolves might bid heavily on today is the telecommunications mogul.

[hoopsguy]

Alan, I don't want to quote PMs but it was quite clear to me that I received money via inheritance.

We have two people dead, one of whom (Swaggs) never submitted Night 0 actions. That pretty much leaves Lathum.

I'm all for having someone scan me tonight, just as I'm fine with the idea that I might have been the target of a scan last night. However, now that I'm identified in Barkeep's writeup (post #277) as the beneficiary, I'm sure I become a more appealing target for the wolves to convert.

Just putting the cards out there on the table - I began the game as "Rich" and remain on that side now, but if they throw a big enough pile of money out there (per the rules) then I'll get to do the mid-game switcheroo. So I would encourage people to not pass along unlimited trust to those that are seer-cleared early in the game.

[hoopsguy]

Also, I'm up for the idea of spreading the wealth among players to some extent today. I figure I have a few options available:
1.) spread the wealth out among players - this minimizes my risk of being a wolf target at night. It also minimizes the risk that would be inherent of giving a big pile of money to any one player. If I do this I would probably select 3+ players to "gift" between now and the end of the day
2.) keep the money with the intent of going big for a service
3.) keep the money with the idea of stockpiling cash to help out my team since I know with 100% certainty that I'm "Rich" and don't have that certainty for anyone else

I'm willing to listen to suggestions, either on these three ideas or alternative plans.

[hoopsguy]

One more note, responding to Alan's question - I received word that I had money in my bank account. I don't want to comment on the amount of money (there was some, obviously, since I'm discussing it) and I don't know if Lathum had additional funds that were lost on his death due to not being in the bank.

[hoopsguy]

If/when the person that won "friend of bank" wants to discuss either Lathum's or my holdings let me know.

OK, time to get some work done unless someone shows up to chat with me ... not really looking to get a monster "dola" run going this morning.

[Alan T]

test post

[Alan T]

Hmm, wrote up a reply post and its not going through.. Having problems posting long posts from work today it appears.. lets see if I can get it to post.

[Alan T]

Personally, i would say if you are on our side, don't give the money around to others who may or may not be on our side. There is a bodyguard service that can be bought fairly cheap it appears that you can use to help keep safe as well.

I don't have a problem with you having alot of money. I have a problem with you having alot of money if you are a wolf. If you aren't a wolf, then unless you have someone else you can trust, you might as well just protect yourself while the rest of us figure out for sure what side you are on.

This game feels to me like it doesn't matter how many people are on each side, it only matters how much money is on each side. So you passing off money to questionable people if you are good hurts us.

[hoopsguy]

Alan, the difficulty is that if/when the bad guys have 100K they can bribe me and there is nothing that I can do to stop it. If they feel like I'm going to be bringing equal value in terms of money + trust, then it is a good investment for them. So I'm not sure that I want to stockpile unlimited cash because it makes me a target for conversion.

Barkeep, can the bodyguard protect against a bribe?

Barkeep, do the Cutthroats have any (inherent) abilities beyond those available for purchase by all players? I didn't see anything in the rules one way or the other on this.

[Schmidty]

So if hoops (or anyone) is cleared publically, there's nothing to say they won't be bribed right after that, which pretty much makes the Seer ability useless after the day the player's role is revealed.

That pretty much sucks unless the person you scan is a wolf.

[hoopsguy]

Schmidty, I think you grant some trust but the value of that trust should diminish as days go by. It should diminish especially quickly if there is reason to believe that person has access to a good amount of money. That is my take on it.

[Alan T]

Ugh.. having a horrible time posting on the board this morning.

[Alan T]

This was my attempted post in reply to Schmidty:

I don't think the differences in this game changes my fundamental belief in how to handle possible conversions. I think you have to go for people who aren't cleared and are possible wolves before you go for people who are cleared and trying to take a stab in the dark at a conversion.