Soccer Thread 2017-2018

[Arles]

Maybe Gulati's plan is to "drain the swamp" and bring in Sepp Blatter

[Young Drachma]

Those weekends I watch EPL, Bundesliga, Serie A, LigaMX and then try to watch MLS is really where the quality dropoff becomes evident. MLS is just not even that fun outside of watching your favorite team.

I'm no Eurosnob and maybe it helps to have a team in ones backyard, but MLS just seems to be elevate itself to "major league" status without having paid the dues of any of the other Big 4 leagues that have had decades to grow fan bases before existing in a world where media deals drive the leagues to insane profits.

Maybe it doesn't matter. I mean, Australia, Japan, China and many second-tier leagues in other countries will never be confused as world beating enterprises, especially when it's not our most popular spectator sport.

It's truly time for CONCACAF-CONMEBOL to merge. Let the Caribbean and Oceania play in their own playoff for that single bid. Last part isn't on the table, but...I do hate that the merger likely wouldn't enable those countries to keep up.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Young Drachma

Those weekends I watch EPL, Bundesliga, Serie A, LigaMX and then try to watch MLS is really where the quality dropoff becomes evident. MLS is just not even that fun outside of watching your favorite team.

I don't watch enough Liga MX to compare, but while I agree on quality for the other leagues I'll disagree with the "fun" part. Once you get past the Champions League teams La Liga and Serie A games in particular are usually brutal to watch. It's not as drastic as it was a couple years ago, but MLS games tend to be direct, physical, and with the concentration of DP talent on the offensive end usually more open than many top level ones once you get past those CL level teams with the truly special offensive talents and the rare mid-level team who's willing to play an open game.

I'm no Eurosnob and maybe it helps to have a team in ones backyard, but MLS just seems to be elevate itself to "major league" status without having paid the dues of any of the other Big 4 leagues that have had decades to grow fan bases before existing in a world where media deals drive the leagues to insane profits.

MLS TV contracts are dwarfed by the NFL/NBA/MLB and the biggest soccer leagues. I'm sure there are delusional fans, but all the MLS fans I've met or talked to are quite honest about the league's place in both hierarchy's. The tenor from the other side comes across as "The US doesn't care enough about soccer to support a top tier league. And also the MLS is a failure because it's not a top tier league." MLS was doing a lot of bad things in the mid-2000's, but in the last decade attendances are going up even while the league has expanded a ton, salaries and quality of play have gone up, investment in academies and infrastructure has gone up. I'm not even a big MLS fan (until Charlotte can get a bid together with a downtown stadium!) but if I'm flipping around I can watch an MLS game without feeling the need to say "Man, I'd rather be watching Dortmund or Barca play."

[MrBug708]

That's right Palace!

[djsatu]

This weekend is crazy for the amount of big games in all leagues. Pool and United ended 0-0, Lazio playing Juve right now, Roma - Napoli later today, and tomorrow my Inter take on city rivals AC. Big games in Germany and Spain also. Any other Serie A fans on here? Forza Inter!

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

I don't watch enough Liga MX to compare, but while I agree on quality for the other leagues I'll disagree with the "fun" part.

Liga MX and Bundesliga are the ones I was mostly referring to. Bundesliga games are often high scoring which I just prefer. LigaMX is just fun. And they even have playoffs, Americans.

Originally Posted by djsatu

This weekend is crazy for the amount of big games in all leagues. Pool and United ended 0-0, Lazio playing Juve right now, Roma - Napoli later today, and tomorrow my Inter take on city rivals AC. Big games in Germany and Spain also. Any other Serie A fans on here? Forza Inter!

17th place Sassuolo supporter here. Hoping the bottom doesn't fall out.

[djsatu]

Originally Posted by Young Drachma

Liga MX and Bundesliga are the ones I was mostly referring to. Bundesliga games are often high scoring which I just prefer. LigaMX is just fun. And they even have playoffs, Americans.



17th place Sassuolo supporter here. Hoping the bottom doesn't fall out.

Poor Sassuolo. I got mad respect for Di Francesco for what he has done at Roma. I would also love Berardi on inter, but his 40 M plus price tag is a little steep. On another note, Hertha Berlin players took a knee in protest of equality before the match.

[ISiddiqui]

LigaMX is 'fun' not necessarily because they are more talented than MLS players (though generally they are, just not all that much) but because no one plays much defense in that league. Tactically the defensive strategies are a mess. And remember, the much maligned (esp since Tuesday) Omar Gonzalez starts for Pachuca and is a key person in their defense (and won a title with them).

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by djsatu

Poor Sassuolo. I got mad respect for Di Francesco for what he has done at Roma. I would also love Berardi on inter, but his 40 M plus price tag is a little steep. On another note, Hertha Berlin players took a knee in protest of equality before the match.

In protest of inequality?

[Young Drachma]

Crew SC owner considers moving team to Austin, Texas - Sports - The Columbus Dispatch - Columbus, OH

Columbus Crew, MLS charter franchise and home to the first soccer specific stadium, moving to Austin in 2019 unless the city builds the owner a new stadium.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by djsatu

Poor Sassuolo. I got mad respect for Di Francesco for what he has done at Roma. I would also love Berardi on inter, but his 40 M plus price tag is a little steep. On another note, Hertha Berlin players took a knee in protest of equality before the match.

Historic moment. #takeaknee #bscs04 #diezukunftgehörtberlin #jvmsports #hahohe

A post shared by Janik Lindenblatt (@janiklin) on Oct 14, 2017 at 6:37am PDT

[ISiddiqui]

An interesting turn in MLS - Columbus Crew's owner is saying that if the city can't make a downtown stadium happen that the franchise is moving to Austin, TX in 2019. I guess this makes the Cincy expansion a bit of an easier Yes vote.

[Arles]

Here's an interesting development:

Landon Donovan considering run for US Soccer presidency - source - ESPN FC

Former United States international Landon Donovan is weighing a run for the presidency of the U.S. Soccer Federation, according to a source with knowledge of the situation.

SI.com was first to report Donovan's interest in running for the position.

Donovan is the latest candidate to indicate he will challenge current USSF president Sunil Gulati, who has held the position for the past 12 years and had never been opposed in any of the previous three elections in which he's run for the federation's top post.

[CrescentMoonie]

It's a shame that Crew sold to a guy whose one out was moving to Austin.

I like the idea of Donovan at least as a figurehead.

Has Watford completely forgotten who they are?

[MrBug708]

Strikerless Palace loses again

[RainMaker]

https://www.si.com/soccer/2017/10/24...ited-marketing

Really looking out for the quality of US soccer aren't they?

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

https://www.si.com/soccer/2017/10/24...ited-marketing

Really looking out for the quality of US soccer aren't they?

Sounds about right.

[CrescentMoonie]

12 minutes into the first knockout round playoff game for MLS and Red Bulls are up 2-0 at Chicago. Really poor defending on both plays.

[cuervo72]

That claim was made in a filing by current Cosmos owner Rocco Commisso, a cable TV magnate who’s now helping to fund the NASL’s antitrust lawsuit against U.S. Soccer. The NASL is seeking an injunction that would prohibit the federation from stripping the league’s second-division sanction, thereby allowing it to operate next year.

Ok, how does this work, exactly? I mean, in a capitalist system. It's not as if the NFL can say "oh, sorry, Arena League - we're not sanctioning you so you can't exist."

[CrescentMoonie]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

Ok, how does this work, exactly? I mean, in a capitalist system. It's not as if the NFL can say "oh, sorry, Arena League - we're not sanctioning you so you can't exist."

Easy. FIFA sanctions the national federation. The national federation sanctions the leagues in their country. NASL can keep playing if they want to, they just won't be sanctioned by USSF or recognized by FIFA. Nobody is being kept from working if they want to. It's pretty much what independent baseball does since MLB doesn't sanction those leagues as part of their minor league system.

The neoCosmos and other NASL twits need to die in a fire.

[RainMaker]

MLS wants their monopoly and doesn't want competition. Soccer of course thrives in environments where competition doesn't exist and there is no real benefit to winning.

[CrescentMoonie]

Hopefully tonight's playoff games aren't the snoozers that NYRB and Vancouver had yesterday.

[Marc Vaughan]

Can't believe that Everton sacked Koeman - yes they had a bad start and were arguably under-performing BUT he'd invested a lot in players and out of their 9 Premiership games this season their fixtures have included Arsenal (Home), Spurs (Home), Man Utd (Away), Man City (Away), Chelsea (Away).

So they've already played over half their fixtures against the top clubs this season with only a quarter of the season gone - that dictates that the rest of their season should be far easier and that their current position is more a factor of whom they've played rather than anything about their current team or Koeman himself imho.

(Now I agree keeping a team motivated during a bad run is difficult - but I think Koeman would have pulled them through)

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by Marc Vaughan

Can't believe that Everton sacked Koeman - yes they had a bad start and were arguably under-performing BUT he'd invested a lot in players and out of their 9 Premiership games this season their fixtures have included Arsenal (Home), Spurs (Home), Man Utd (Away), Man City (Away), Chelsea (Away).

So they've already played over half their fixtures against the top clubs this season with only a quarter of the season gone - that dictates that the rest of their season should be far easier and that their current position is more a factor of whom they've played rather than anything about their current team or Koeman himself imho.

(Now I agree keeping a team motivated during a bad run is difficult - but I think Koeman would have pulled them through)

Yeah, well I argue the same thing to keep from getting sacked in FM. It doesn't work there either.

[Marc Vaughan]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

Yeah, well I argue the same thing to keep from getting sacked in FM. It doesn't work there either.

LOL - what can I say we're realistic ....

(doesn't mean its sensible and it amazes me that Chairmen don't look at the truly successful clubs and realize that allowing a manager time is a large part of that success ... the amount of clubs who implode by doing the managerial shuffle dumbfounds me)

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by CrescentMoonie

The neoCosmos and other NASL twits need to die in a fire.

Basically. The irony is that if the NASL were an unsanctioned league, they'd have an even harder path. The other fun part of the emails is that US Soccer actually offered NASL provisional D1 in 2016 if they were willing to work to D1 standards (NASL never responded). I don't have any idea what in the world they want. At this point they should just have the clubs join USL.

[CrescentMoonie]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Basically. The irony is that if the NASL were an unsanctioned league, they'd have an even harder path. The other fun part of the emails is that US Soccer actually offered NASL provisional D1 in 2016 if they were willing to work to D1 standards (NASL never responded). I don't have any idea what in the world they want. At this point they should just have the clubs join USL.

The jackoffs running the Cosmos don't want to pay an expansion fee. If they were willing then NYCFC would never have happened. The rest of the remaining NASL owners aren't rich enough to even consider real D1 standards and are hoping to break the entire US sports model because of overinflated egos.

[AlexB]

Originally Posted by Marc Vaughan

Can't believe that Everton sacked Koeman - yes they had a bad start and were arguably under-performing BUT he'd invested a lot in players and out of their 9 Premiership games this season their fixtures have included Arsenal (Home), Spurs (Home), Man Utd (Away), Man City (Away), Chelsea (Away).

So they've already played over half their fixtures against the top clubs this season with only a quarter of the season gone - that dictates that the rest of their season should be far easier and that their current position is more a factor of whom they've played rather than anything about their current team or Koeman himself imho.

(Now I agree keeping a team motivated during a bad run is difficult - but I think Koeman would have pulled them through)

By all accounts it wasn’t just the results, he’d alienated popular players and performances were dire. I’m not sure he would have pulled this group through tbh, too much water under the bridge.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by CrescentMoonie

The jackoffs running the Cosmos don't want to pay an expansion fee. If they were willing then NYCFC would never have happened. The rest of the remaining NASL owners aren't rich enough to even consider real D1 standards and are hoping to break the entire US sports model because of overinflated egos.

Cosmos were only recently acquired by a different rich guy who was more concerned about losing the IP. And who had opportunities to join MLS but opted against it, because he knew the business model was garbage.

https://www.si.com/planet-futbol/201...rk-cosmos-nasl

MLS business model. Being an "owner-operator" isn't the same as owning a franchise. The franchise value is inflated for what MLS offers and MLS is a bubble that'll burst.

This comedy routine that somehow USSF is willing to sanction a 2nd D1 league isn't a thing. MLS and SUM are in bed together and there's no way they're going to allow some other folks outside the club to break up their hot action when they're getting rich convincing people that product they're trotting is remotely world class relative to other leagues.

It's certainly doing US Soccer zero favors.

[MrBug708]

The beta of the next FM is out

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Young Drachma

This comedy routine that somehow USSF is willing to sanction a 2nd D1 league isn't a thing. MLS and SUM are in bed together and there's no way they're going to allow some other folks outside the club to break up their hot action when they're getting rich convincing people that product they're trotting is remotely world class relative to other leagues.

These conspiracy theories are gold, lemme tell you. There isn't just one Tinfoil Ted out there.

[CrescentMoonie]

Originally Posted by Young Drachma

Cosmos were only recently acquired by a different rich guy who was more concerned about losing the IP. And who had opportunities to join MLS but opted against it, because he knew the business model was garbage.

https://www.si.com/planet-futbol/201...rk-cosmos-nasl

MLS business model. Being an "owner-operator" isn't the same as owning a franchise. The franchise value is inflated for what MLS offers and MLS is a bubble that'll burst.

This comedy routine that somehow USSF is willing to sanction a 2nd D1 league isn't a thing. MLS and SUM are in bed together and there's no way they're going to allow some other folks outside the club to break up their hot action when they're getting rich convincing people that product they're trotting is remotely world class relative to other leagues.

It's certainly doing US Soccer zero favors.

I could smoke crack every second of every day for the next 20 years and still not believe that nonsense.

The "garbage" business model has created, far and away, the most successful professional league in US history that is still growing and people are now clawing and scratching to be part of. The intellectual dishonesty required to believe otherwise is enormous and would do the world a ton of good if it was rerouted towards things that aren't poppycock.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Basically. The irony is that if the NASL were an unsanctioned league, they'd have an even harder path. The other fun part of the emails is that US Soccer actually offered NASL provisional D1 in 2016 if they were willing to work to D1 standards (NASL never responded). I don't have any idea what in the world they want. At this point they should just have the clubs join USL.

It's almost like they made the standards to be D1 unobtainable so that they could maintain their monopoly.

It sounds like they want D2 status right now and to break up the monopoly.

Originally Posted by CrescentMoonie

The "garbage" business model has created, far and away, the most successful professional league in US history that is still growing and people are now clawing and scratching to be part of. The intellectual dishonesty required to believe otherwise is enormous and would do the world a ton of good if it was rerouted towards things that aren't poppycock.

The business model is convince cities to build soccer stadiums for rich owners who will pay expansion fees to existing owners.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

It's almost like they made the standards to be D1 unobtainable so that they could maintain their monopoly.

It sounds like they want D2 status right now and to break up the monopoly.

The standards that NASL demanded? Because they thought they could kill off the USL?

The business model is convince cities to build soccer stadiums for rich owners who will pay expansion fees to existing owners.

Expansion fees are, of course, for 1/X (where X is the number of teams) of MLS LLC. Interestingly enough, every other sports in the US charges expansion fees, but only for MLS is it 'nefarious'.

It is amazing, btw, how you are so intelligent in business that you can see through something that multiple sponsors and billionaire business people in many different cities can't see. They need to sign you up to CEO a Fortune 500 company right away!

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

It is amazing, btw, how you are so intelligent in business that you can see through something that multiple sponsors and billionaire business people in many different cities can't see. They need to sign you up to CEO a Fortune 500 company right away!

It's a good business for the owners. They keep cashing expansion checks, get cities to build them stadiums, and don't have to compete with one another when it comes to spending.

It's a bad business if you want better soccer in this country.

[ISiddiqui]

What about the new potential owners. The billionaires I just spoke about it - who know that at some point they are going to be the last expansion in a while. I also wonder if you think that the expansion fees actually get sent to the owners' pockets? And the sponsors (like Audi, Adidas, Target) who offer even greater and greater amounts to the league? What are they getting out of all of it if it's just a scheme to make original owners' money?

And I've been watching soccer in this country since the 1990s. Our Division 1 league is leaps and bounds better than it was when MLS started in 1996.

[RainMaker]

The sponsors are getting exposure to the only major soccer league in this country. Why wouldn't Adidas want to be all over the only domestic league we really have?

As for new owners, I think some feel they'll make money and I think some want to just own a professional sports team and the other leagues don't offer that opportunity (not many selling, prices are ridiculous). It's like buying a luxury car.

[CrescentMoonie]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

It's almost like they made the standards to be D1 unobtainable so that they could maintain their monopoly.

It sounds like they want D2 status right now and to break up the monopoly.

They've had 5 years to get to D2 standards, which aren't hard to achieve at all, and failed repeatedly. They were given provisional status for a few years but got farther away from fully qualifying because the only people with semi functional brains involved with NASL already either made the cut for MLS or jumped ship to USL.

[CrescentMoonie]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

It's a good business for the owners. They keep cashing expansion checks, get cities to build them stadiums, and don't have to compete with one another when it comes to spending.

It's a bad business if you want better soccer in this country.

Did you live through every league that tried a different model? Because if you did, and you're still arguing for that idiotic approach, then you're either a troll or a moron.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by CrescentMoonie

Did you live through every league that tried a different model? Because if you did, and you're still arguing for that idiotic approach, then you're either a troll or a moron.

I don't think the soccer landscape of the 70's and 80's in this country is in the same stratosphere of today's landscape. Why does it matter what a league here did in the 70's? Television and sports sponsorship are completely different areas of professional sports now than they were when most of these leagues tried to make it here.

Well I guess it's the same landscape in that the US couldn't qualify for the World Cup then either.

[CrescentMoonie]

Well, despite the asinine trolling about NASL and every other failed soccer league in the US, tonight has started with a great battle between Atlanta and Columbus. It's looking like it will go to penalties and it's a shame either team will be knocked out already. Plus, that's a hell of a crowd for a Thursday night game on short notice. Atlanta has surpassed Seattle for the best gameday atmosphere in the league.

Edit: Just as I say that, Parkhurst with a dramatic clearance off the line in the 118th minute.

[CrescentMoonie]

Houston and KC also going to extra time at 0-0. Had never happened in MLS playoff history and has now happened twice tonight.

[Butter]

Originally Posted by CrescentMoonie

Did you live through every league that tried a different model? Because if you did, and you're still arguing for that idiotic approach, then you're either a troll or a moron.

What, the model where teams actually try to compete with each other? What a concept.

[CrescentMoonie]

Originally Posted by Butter

What, the model where teams actually try to compete with each other? What a concept.

No, the model where they spend like drunken sailors and leagues go out of business after a handful of years.

How freaking hard is that to understand? Prior to MLS nothing lasted more than a few years. Now there's a league that's put up 20 years of existence. Cities are fighting to get a place in the league. Attendance is the highest, league wide, that a US league has ever had. TV money is increasing exponentially.

Yeah, let's call that a bad model and ditch it for something that's failed repeatedly in multiple attempts across decades because a handful of asshat's are too stupid to understand reality.

[Young Drachma]

Congrats to the Crew, I think their season will likely end at Yankee Stadium.

Timbers get Houston who they haven't lost to this year. An all-Cascadia WCF would be good for tv crowds.

[miked]

I've been to a few United games and the demographics of the fans surprise me quite a bit. I think the league can learn a lot from what has gone on in Atlanta and use that to expand to the right places.

The game last night was a heartbreak, but it was actually one of the better MLS games I've seen and the atmosphere was that of an EPL or CL type game (not the quality, the atmosphere). I hope soccer picks up because it is much more exciting than basketball, hockey, and baseball right now

[CrescentMoonie]

Originally Posted by miked

I've been to a few United games and the demographics of the fans surprise me quite a bit. I think the league can learn a lot from what has gone on in Atlanta and use that to expand to the right places.

The game last night was a heartbreak, but it was actually one of the better MLS games I've seen and the atmosphere was that of an EPL or CL type game (not the quality, the atmosphere). I hope soccer picks up because it is much more exciting than basketball, hockey, and baseball right now

Atlanta/Arthur Blank did everything right. That's probably the best on and off field expansion year since Chicago came into the league.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Young Drachma

Congrats to the Crew, I think their season will likely end at Yankee Stadium.

Was sad at the result last night, but also am glad that the Crew move on (so a bit conflicted there). The best 0-0 game I've ever seen! Amazing back and forth. Brought someone new to the game who had never seen a soccer match (I should probably let him now that isn't the typical game, lest he get disappointed the next match he sees).

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by miked

I've been to a few United games and the demographics of the fans surprise me quite a bit.

Eh? AUFC probably has a few more African-American fans than most, but MLS fanbases have always been very diverse (especially regarding Hispanic fans).

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Was sad at the result last night, but also am glad that the Crew move on (so a bit conflicted there). The best 0-0 game I've ever seen! Amazing back and forth. Brought someone new to the game who had never seen a soccer match (I should probably let him now that isn't the typical game, lest he get disappointed the next match he sees).

Fun first season for you, I'm sure though. Good to see those massive crowds.