Official 2009-10 College Basketball Thread

[Swaggs]

I understand the logic of turning pro if there are going to be big changes to the draft and a potential lockout or strike, but, at some point, these guys have to realize that there are only 30 guaranteed contracts out there for first rounders, right?

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

I understand the logic of turning pro if there are going to be big changes to the draft and a potential lockout or strike, but, at some point, these guys have to realize that there are only 30 guaranteed contracts out there for first rounders, right?

Some of these guys make really, really bad decisions. I don't think Dunn is one of them.

[Logan]

It's the end result of not having good enough perspective of your own current skills, an overinflated sense of the potential you think others see in you, and people with money telling you what you are worth outside of college.

Then you have some guys who are willing to take the shot that someone will be impressed in workouts cause they need the money, and will go overseas if necessary to get it (I know Seton Hall's Herb Pope falls into this)

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by Samdari

Some of these guys make really, really bad decisions. I don't think Dunn is one of them.

I didn't mean to point him out -- I honestly don't know much about him. My thinking is more along the lines of knowing that there are usually 5-10 foreign born guys that get picked in the first round, so there are really only 20 to 25 guaranteed spots for all of these guys that are declaring. A lot of them are going to miss out on the big, guaranteed money.

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

I didn't mean to point him out -- I honestly don't know much about him. My thinking is more along the lines of knowing that there are usually 5-10 foreign born guys that get picked in the first round, so there are really only 20 to 25 guaranteed spots for all of these guys that are declaring. A lot of them are going to miss out on the big, guaranteed money.

I think 10 grossly overstates the current situation. That was true perhaps in the early/mid "aughts" but the last 3 years have seen 5,3 and 5 "true" internationals drafted. Don't know if this is a response to the continual disappointment by international draftees, or if its just been a bad few years (and this year is one of the worst, there might only be 2).

But, your point taken, there are only 25 spots to be counted on for College players, and regularly way more US and international early entrants declare.

[DataKing]

But as long as they don't hire an agent, these guys do have time to change their minds.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

I understand the logic of turning pro if there are going to be big changes to the draft and a potential lockout or strike, but, at some point, these guys have to realize that there are only 30 guaranteed contracts out there for first rounders, right?

Many of these guys are going to return after they get a bit of a reality check as they go for workouts and such. I think a lot of guys are just trying to strike while their stock is the highest. Right or wrong, teams look at guys who spend three or four years in college with a leery eye. The longer they stay, the longer they give NBA teams a reason not to draft them. I just took a quick look at the 2009 draft. Stephen Curry is the only guy that I remember that was not hurt by coming back for an extra year. It could be argued that Ed Davis' draft status was hurt by coming back to North Carolina for his sophomore year. Cole Aldrich probably cost himself by going back to Kansas. As they say, it only takes one team to believe in a player to draft him. Remember Jordan Hill and Austin Daye was drafted in the first round.

[the_meanstrosity]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

I don't even think it's remotely close to the same level of 'dirty'.

Anderson recruits the Memphis area pretty hard so I'm guessing he's used to recruiting against SEC teams. And a few of his recruits have received offers from SEC schools (Dixon, Pressey, etc) that aren't from the SEC region. So he's going to have to recruit against the SEC whether he's in the Big 12 or another southern conference.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Samdari

Some of these guys make really, really bad decisions. I don't think Dunn is one of them.

I didn't see it mentioned, but Dunn surprised basically everyone and held a press conference to announce he was staying in school. Haven't seen many of those, but I'm sure Drew is thrilled that he's staying.

[the_meanstrosity]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

I didn't see it mentioned, but Dunn surprised basically everyone and held a press conference to announce he was staying in school. Haven't seen many of those, but I'm sure Drew is thrilled that he's staying.

I'm still hoping Oregon or some other school tries to hire Drew out of the Big 12. On the other hand, I don't know that Baylor can do any better than Drew so I'd hate to see them drop because of him leaving.

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by DataKing

But as long as they don't hire an agent, these guys do have time to change their minds.

Not very much. While the NBA kept their date to pull out at June 15th, this is the first year of an NCAA rule where they have to pull out by early May (9th?) to keep their eligibility.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Samdari

Not very much. While the NBA kept their date to pull out at June 15th, this is the first year of an NCAA rule where they have to pull out by early May (9th?) to keep their eligibility.

Really like that rule change. Allows colleges a bit more time to pick up a late recruit while still giving the kid the option to check out his draft status.

[Pumpy Tudors]

My insider sources just told me that Arkansas-Little Rock is a better program than Missouri.

[Pumpy Tudors]

GO SUN BELT

[MJ4H]

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

My insider sources just told me that Arkansas-Little Rock is a better program than Missouri.

your insider source again huh what did i tell you about putting those little critters in there

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

My insider sources just told me that Arkansas-Little Rock is a better program than Missouri.

What did they say about your bowling alley hat?

[whomario]

Originally Posted by Samdari

Don't know if this is a response to the continual disappointment by international draftees, or if its just been a bad few years (and this year is one of the worst, there might only be 2).

But, your point taken, there are only 25 spots to be counted on for College players, and regularly way more US and international early entrants declare.

1) Part of it is also that it´s not that easy anymore to convince european teams to let go of their players, that part was easier up until a few years ago (which doesn´t matter much in the 2nd round and is sometimes prefered there by NBA teams, but in the first that pick better be available). About that "continual disapointment" i´m not so sure, is the ratio actually that bad compared to College players ? I think i remember checking that like 2 years ago and found it pretty even.
I think it´s really more the fact that those players get drafted about the same time they get noticed in Europe, sign better paying contracts and are harder to convince to actually come over.
Or have signed terrible contracts with buyout clauses preventing them to come over.

2) the reason a lot of europeans declare early and don´t hesitate to stay in is quite simple : They don´t care about guaranteed money since they allready have that. Not as much as an NBA contract pays in some cases, but also not as far of that you couldn´t get that back when coming 2 years later and not be bound by the Rookie scale as a 2nd rounder or undrafted player or simply with the next european contract.

Same idea with College players with marginal nba-potential, going to Europe and get paid. Better than simply dropping out, especially since that also puts them on european scouts lists early who regularly get information and tapes from their american counterparts.


@ Mizzou B-ball fan : That´s actually not entirely true. The "option to check out his draft status" is really limited with that deadline from what i´ve see the last few years. No one has any idea of how the draft shapes out (especially in the critical 20-40 range) that early.
I get why the NCAA does it and it´s propably in response to the one and done rule forced upon them by the NBA, but for the players it´s a bad, bad development.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by whomario

That´s actually not entirely true. The "option to check out his draft status" is really limited with that deadline from what i´ve see the last few years. No one has any idea of how the draft shapes out (especially in the critical 20-40 range) that early.

I get why the NCAA does it and it´s propably in response to the one and done rule forced upon them by the NBA, but for the players it´s a bad, bad development.

Honestly, if you're a junior (or younger) and you're falling in that middle range that you mention, you're better off being forced to make a decision. Under most circumstances, those kids are better off going back to college to finish their degree while improving their game.

[whomario]

might be true, but that wouldn´t be the same possibility for the players in June ?

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by whomario

might be true, but that wouldn´t be the same possibility for the players in June ?

I think the NCAA has been more than generous by allowing the players to feel it out and return if they don't sign an agent. That's something that wasn't even an option before.

I think the best option would be to switch to the college baseball rule (either go to the pros straight out of high school or you can't jump until after your third year of college), but that makes far too much sense, so we know that won't happen.

[Radii]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

I think the best option would be to switch to the college baseball rule (either go to the pros straight out of high school or you can't jump until after your third year of college), but that makes far too much sense, so we know that won't happen.

Yeah, this would be awesome.

[whomario]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

I think the NCAA has been more than generous by allowing the players to feel it out and return if they don't sign an agent. That's something that wasn't even an option before.

generous ? I mean, if a player goes to a normal job interview, that wouldn´t make him inelligible, right ? Why would basketball workouts be different ?

not saying it´s not understandable from the NCAA, but don´t twist it as if it is for the players good

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Hey Bug, I'll toss you a bit of credit. You were right about Oregon wanting to throw around some money to land Coach Anderson, but as I noted in my previous comments, he's not leaving Mizzou. Multiple sources around Missouri are saying that Oregon offered him a contract today for $3M + incentives through outside channels. He has rejected it and told them he's not interested.

Edit: It was actually earlier this week, not today. Here's a brief note about it from a local sports radio outlet. It's also been reported by Rivals and a reporter in St. Louis.

Sports Radio 810 WHB - Powered by Fans

Looks like these sources were just wild rumors.

But apparently Anderson met with the interim Oregon AD, Pat Kilkenny last night in El Paso

Oregon basketball: Pat Kilkenny meets with Missouri's Mike Anderson in Texas | OregonLive.com

But Thursday's meeting, confirmed to The Oregonian by a source close to the search, suggests that talks may be ongoing. Oregon senior associate athletic director Joe Giansante said late Thursday that no offer had been made to Anderson, but said he could not comment when asked whether Kilkenny had met with the coach.

Interesting comments by the AD

Considering Anderson's salary is $1.55 million at Missouri

No way does Anderson turn down 3 million dollars if he is offered that much

"I have no idea," Richardson, standing in a hotel lobby, told The Oregonian, when asked whether Anderson was meeting with Kilkenny on Thursday night.

Maybe Richardson isn't in the loop as much as some thought?

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Looks like these sources were just wild rumors.

But apparently Anderson met with the interim Oregon AD, Pat Kilkenny last night in El Paso

Oregon basketball: Pat Kilkenny meets with Missouri's Mike Anderson in Texas | OregonLive.com

Interesting comments by the AD

No way does Anderson turn down 3 million dollars if he is offered that much

Maybe Richardson isn't in the loop as much as some thought?

***chuckle***

I figured this would probably be posted at some point. Anderson (and Richardson for that matter) didn't even know the guy was going to show up in El Paso. He literally just came there knowing Anderson would be at the fundraiser hoping to get a chance to ask him to reconsider.

Richardson and Anderson talk on a daily basis on the phone. Outside of Anderson's family, there's no one he's closer to than Nolan. Richardson was telling the truth when he made that comment. He had no idea because he didn't even realize the guy was in town at that point.

I actually feel a bit of sympathy for the Oregon fan base after seeing how Kilkenny has handled this. He's wasting time while decent coaches are signed to other schools. He literally took a 3 hour plane trip for nothing. Anderson doesn't mind him doing it because it allows the possibility of a raise when that possibility didn't previously exist. I'm sure he'll take a couple hundred thousand more.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

dola

Forgot to mention that Oregon did formally ask to talk with Anderson late last night and was granted permission. Not much to read into it as Alden always grants permission, but at least Oregon can formally offer that $3M contract for Anderson to decline.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

No way does Anderson turn down 3 million dollars if he is offered that much.

BTW Bug. I missed responding to this before. I'm curious why you don't think he'll turn down $3M at Oregon when he turned down a $3M offer last summer from Memphis with little hesitation?

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

BTW Bug. I missed responding to this before. I'm curious why you don't think he'll turn down $3M at Oregon when he turned down a $3M offer last summer from Memphis with little hesitation?

Memphis == Conference USA
Oregon == Pac 10

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Memphis == Conference USA
Oregon == Pac 10

But would anyone actually think that Oregon is a better job than Memphis? I'm not sure that many would outside of the West Coast.

[whomario]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Memphis == Conference USA
Oregon == Pac 10

hmm, easy path to the tourney virtually every year on one hand, danger of loosing 10 conference games and being out of a job on the other ...

My foreign take on things here

[Pumpy Tudors]

Somehow, I imagine whomario as a guy sitting in a dark room 24/7 with 50 huge televisions all tuned to basketball games.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

BTW Bug. I missed responding to this before. I'm curious why you don't think he'll turn down $3M at Oregon when he turned down a $3M offer last summer from Memphis with little hesitation?

I can't speak to last years job offer from Memphis as to being official or just a rumor. How many coaches go from a big conference to a mid major when they weren't in danger of being fired? It says nothing of the prestige of the job, but can you think of any in recent time? That says nothing of the inpending sanctions that Cal could have brought on Memphis at the time which made it less then desirable for a lot of coaches..

[MrBug708]

The plot thickens for Anderson and UofO

Oregon basketball: Pat Kilkenny headed for St. Louis; will Missouri's Mike Anderson go with him? | OregonLive.com

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Lord, I'm not usually a praying man, but if I could ask you one favor...

[Dr. Sak]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

Lord, I'm not usually a praying man, but if I could ask you one favor...

Someone in this thread could be eating a big helping of:



Well two that I can count

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

I can't speak to last years job offer from Memphis as to being official or just a rumor. How many coaches go from a big conference to a mid major when they weren't in danger of being fired? It says nothing of the prestige of the job, but can you think of any in recent time? That says nothing of the inpending sanctions that Cal could have brought on Memphis at the time which made it less then desirable for a lot of coaches..

One should definitely note then the possibility of a misuse of funds investigation of the University of Oregonthat the Oregon State Legislature is currently considering. That's certainly not a stabilizing factor by any means in addition to the current state of the program.

Update was posted. Couple of amusing comments from the reported 'source'.

http://www2.registerguard.com/cms/in...mike-anderson/

There’s no timetable for Kilkenny and Anderson to come to a resolution, but the source confirmed Oregon’s interest was reciprocated by the coach.

If 'interest' means that Anderson finally agreed to chat after saying no the previous two times he asked to talk, then I suppose he was 'interested'.

But the source suggested with Oregon’s new arena and support from Nike and Phil Knight, “it would be hard for any coach not to listen.”

It would appear that the previous several coaches that they courted didn't find it too hard to turn down Nike and Phil Knight. Anderson won't either.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

The plot thickens for Anderson and UofO

Oregon basketball: Pat Kilkenny headed for St. Louis; will Missouri's Mike Anderson go with him? | OregonLive.com

He's playing golf right now for certain. He's not on that plane. You would think they would check that before they print it. Some pretty irresponsible journalism coming out of Oregon of late.

My thought is that he may be looking to court Majerus. He's been discontent at SLU of late.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

One should definitely note then the possibility of a misuse of funds investigation of the University of Oregonthat the Oregon State Legislature is currently considering. That's certainly not a stabilizing factor by any means in addition to the current state of the program.

Your comparison would be valid if the situations are the same. The State can't ban Oregon from playing in the NCAA tournament. The NCAA however.

If 'interest' means that Anderson finally agreed to chat after saying no the previous two times he asked to talk, then I suppose he was 'interested'.

Most AD's give up after the first time and most likely the second time. Maybe Kilkenny will be offering 4 million dollars now?

It would appear that the previous several coaches that they courted didn't find it too hard to turn down Nike and Phil Knight. Anderson won't either.

Apparently he is finding it hard to turn down, seeing as how the "No" from the other two seemed to be pretty firm.

I'm sure we can find a few posts by you stating that Anderson would have zero interest in the program when I told you that if Oregon got that far down the list, he would have interest. Now if Anderson really has an eye for the Arkansas job when it opens, I could see him turning down Oregon and waiting for that job. In the off chance that he takes the Oregon job, then he really has no interest in Arkansas, at least while Richardson is around

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

He's playing golf right now for certain. He's not on that plane. You would think they would check that before they print it. Some pretty irresponsible journalism coming out of Oregon of late.

My thought is that he may be looking to court Majerus. He's been discontent at SLU of late.

Did you even read the article? More specifically, did you bother to read the title of the article?

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

Somehow, I imagine whomario as a guy sitting in a dark room 24/7 with 50 huge televisions all tuned to basketball games.

Now that you mention it, that sounds about right

(definitely one of my favorite "newer" posters on the board, tho and at least half of his posts have had to come in the past year )

SI

[panerd]

Originally Posted by Dr. Sak

Someone in this thread could be eating a big helping of:



Well two that I can count

Except eating crow implies the person was wrong. I am not the least bit worried about being wrong.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Your comparison would be valid if the situations are the same. The State can't ban Oregon from playing in the NCAA tournament. The NCAA however.

Most AD's give up after the first time and most likely the second time. Maybe Kilkenny will be offering 4 million dollars now?

Apparently he is finding it hard to turn down, seeing as how the "No" from the other two seemed to be pretty firm.

I'm sure we can find a few posts by you stating that Anderson would have zero interest in the program when I told you that if Oregon got that far down the list, he would have interest. Now if Anderson really has an eye for the Arkansas job when it opens, I could see him turning down Oregon and waiting for that job. In the off chance that he takes the Oregon job, then he really has no interest in Arkansas, at least while Richardson is around

1. Anything could happen if the finances are opened up. You don't want that to happen and to assume the NCAA wouldn't be watching is faulty logic at best.

2. First, you say there's no way they'd offer Anderson $3M, now you're going to make him the 2nd highest paid coach in the nation? C'mon now.

3. Who told you that there were only two that previously turned Oregon down? I think you're missing a couple.

4. Anderson has zero interest in Oregon. That's a fact. He had zero interest in going to Georgia last year, but he was smart enough to send his agent down there to get his salary doubled by pretending to be interested. Anderson's no fool. He'll play the Oregon card and try to land more money. That's how raises happen in college basketball.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Did you even read the article? More specifically, did you bother to read the title of the article?

I did. He was creating a suspensful title that had already been answered. Anderson isn't on that plane and there's zero reason for him to go to St. Louis if they're meeting. There's a perfectly good airstrip in Columbia if he really wanted to meet with him.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

1. Anything could happen if the finances are opened up. You don't want that to happen and to assume the NCAA wouldn't be watching is faulty logic at best.

California's UC system is a mess and the coaches have to take unpaid days off. The NCAA could care less. With zero realistic examples, the logic is pretty solid

2. First, you say there's no way they'd offer Anderson $3M, now you're going to make him the 2nd highest paid coach in the nation? C'mon now.

On one had you discredit the Oregon papers by their faulty journalistic reporting, but on the otherhand, you believe every rumor out there so long as it's favorable to Missouri. Just pick a side and stand by it.

As for the 4 million dollar comment, I don't think anyone still believes the 3 million dollar offer, considering they just asked permission to talk with Mike Anderson last night. However, if he agreed to actually talk to them on the...what is it...3rd attempt, one could only naturally assume the money offer was raised.

3. Who told you that there were only two that previously turned Oregon down? I think you're missing a couple.

Brad Stevens and Jaime Dixon.

4. Anderson has zero interest in Oregon. That's a fact. He had zero interest in going to Georgia last year, but he was smart enough to send his agent down there to get his salary doubled by pretending to be interested. Anderson's no fool. He'll play the Oregon card and try to land more money. That's how raises happen in college basketball.

Did Mike Anderson not feel comfortable asking for a raise after the first two times he spoke with Oregon but suddenly decided that he needed an extra 250K a year last night and agreed to speak with Oregon?

Anderson is apparently a fool for using a school clearly beneath him to try and pony up for a raise on the third time asking.

[RedKingGold]

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

Somehow, I imagine whomario as a guy sitting in a dark room 24/7 with 50 huge televisions all tuned to basketball games.

Who, Mario?

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

California's UC system is a mess and the coaches have to take unpaid days off. The NCAA could care less. With zero realistic examples, the logic is pretty solid

On one had you discredit the Oregon papers by their faulty journalistic reporting, but on the otherhand, you believe every rumor out there so long as it's favorable to Missouri. Just pick a side and stand by it.

As for the 4 million dollar comment, I don't think anyone still believes the 3 million dollar offer, considering they just asked permission to talk with Mike Anderson last night. However, if he agreed to actually talk to them on the...what is it...3rd attempt, one could only naturally assume the money offer was raised.

Brad Stevens and Jaime Dixon.

Did Mike Anderson not feel comfortable asking for a raise after the first two times he spoke with Oregon but suddenly decided that he needed an extra 250K a year last night and agreed to speak with Oregon?

Anderson is apparently a fool for using a school clearly beneath him to try and pony up for a raise on the third time asking.

1. Take it from a fan who's team has had a couple of investigations in the last 20 years. The NCAA puts its nose into everything. They like it even better when someone else does the dirty work for them.

2. I haven't put my faith in any rumors.

3. Or one could assume that he was so tired of this guy trying to save his ass by talking with him that he agreed to listen just to get him off his back AND get a raise in the process.

4. Oregon has offered at least five coaches the job through their agents and it could be as many as seven.

5. I'm shocked that anyone in the Oregon fan base would be pointing the finger at Mike Anderson and labeling him a fool when there's a house full of them in their athletic department.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

1. Take it from a fan who's team has had a couple of investigations in the last 20 years. The NCAA puts its nose into everything. They like it even better when someone else does the dirty work for them.

Oregon isn't in an NCAA investigation though, so why does that even matter?

2. I haven't put my faith in any rumors.
4. Oregon has offered at least five coaches the job through their agents and it could be as many as seven.

Does not compute

3. Or one could assume that he was so tired of this guy trying to save his ass by talking with him that he agreed to listen just to get him off his back AND get a raise in the process.

So Brad Stevens get asked only once before they move on, yet Mike Anderson gets asked 3 times?

5. I'm shocked that anyone in the Oregon fan base would be pointing the finger at Mike Anderson and labeling him a fool when there's a house full of them in their athletic department.

Um, what?

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by whomario

hmm, easy path to the tourney virtually every year on one hand, danger of loosing 10 conference games and being out of a job on the other ...

My foreign take on things here

Reality doesn't match your take here, whomario. You could say the above about virtually every upper end mid major job against every middle Big Six conference job, but coaches make the jump from those upper mid majors to middle conference Big Six all the time every year. Hardly anyone willingly goes from a Big Six conference to a mid major.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

Many of these guys are going to return after they get a bit of a reality check as they go for workouts and such. I think a lot of guys are just trying to strike while their stock is the highest. Right or wrong, teams look at guys who spend three or four years in college with a leery eye. The longer they stay, the longer they give NBA teams a reason not to draft them. I just took a quick look at the 2009 draft. Stephen Curry is the only guy that I remember that was not hurt by coming back for an extra year. It could be argued that Ed Davis' draft status was hurt by coming back to North Carolina for his sophomore year. Cole Aldrich probably cost himself by going back to Kansas. As they say, it only takes one team to believe in a player to draft him. Remember Jordan Hill and Austin Daye was drafted in the first round.

NBA Draft.net still has Aldrich in the lottery (11 currently). I can't remember a time when his stock has been higher.

SI

[sterlingice]

Turns out Dunn is staying at Baylor. Good for them. Bad for us.

SI

[the_meanstrosity]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

NBA Draft.net still has Aldrich in the lottery (11 currently). I can't remember a time when his stock has been higher.

SI

The guy who really hurt his draft stock this year was Willie Warren. He was a potential top 10 pick last season.