OT - Senator says the US may need draft

[NoMyths]

Link here: Senator says US may need compulsory service to boost Iraq force

Full Text:
Senator says US may need compulsory service to boost Iraq force
WASHINGTON (AFP) - A senior Republican lawmaker said that deteriorating security in Iraq (news - web sites) may force the United States to reintroduce the military draft.

"There's not an American ... that doesn't understand what we are engaged in today and what the prospects are for the future," Senator Chuck Hagel told a Senate Foreign Relations Committee hearing on post-occupation Iraq.
"Why shouldn't we ask all of our citizens to bear some responsibility and pay some price?" Hagel said, arguing that restoring compulsory military service would force "our citizens to understand the intensity and depth of challenges we face."

The Nebraska Republican added that a draft, which was ended in the early 1970s, would spread the burden of military service in Iraq more equitably among various social strata.

"Those who are serving today and dying today are the middle class and lower middle class," he observed.

The call to consider a imposing a draft comes just days after the Pentagon (news - web sites) moved to extend the missions of some 20,000 of the 135,000 US troops in Iraq.

Some critics of the US-led occupation complain that military planners used too few troops to subdue Iraq, and insist that more military muscle will be needed to restore order.

The US-led military coalition was put under further strain by the announcement this week by coalition members Spain and Honduras that they would withdraw their military contingents from Iraq.

Meanwhile, witnesses at the hearing, including academics and former US officials, expressed concern about ongoing flareups of violence in Iraq this month -- the bloodiest yet for US troops.

"I think it's clear that pressures in Iraq have reached the boiling point," said Samuel Berger, national security adviser during the Bill Clinton (news - web sites) administration, who called for an increase in troops there, and a "genuine, non-grudging effort to internationalize the enterprise in Iraq, both military and civilian."

"We've got to be prepared to give up our hammerlock on decision making in exchange for genuine burden sharing."

Richard Perle, a former White House adviser who currently serves as a fellow at a conservative think tank, advised against adding troops or extending the date of handover of Iraqi sovereignty beyond the currently-set June 30 date.

"It is essential that we not delay the handover of sovereignty set for the end of June, even if there is continuing violence by those who know they have no place in a decent, democratic Iraq," he said.

Perle also warned against entrusting the United Nations (news - web sites) with the post-occupation administration of Iraq, saying UN involvement should be kept at "an absolute minimum."

"A large UN contingent in Iraq ... would do more harm than good," Perle said.

"It would discourage the assumption of sovereignty by Iraqis themselves. It would drain resources urgently needed for the development of Iraq's economy," Perle said.

A senior Democrat meanwhile, lashed out at the White House for failing to send a top administration official to appear before the panel.

"I think it is outrageous that the administration has not provided every witness we've asked for," said Senator Joseph Biden, the highest-ranking Democrat on the committee.

"The fact that they are not prepared to send a witness means that they are either totally incompetent and they don't have anything to tell us ... or they're refusing to allow us to fulfill our constitutional responsibility" of congressional oversight, Biden said.

The committee's Republican chairman, Richard Lugar, also slammed the White House for "inadequate planning and communication related to Iraq."

[sovereignstar]

Anybody know of any good places to stay in Canada?

[Axxon]

I thought this was going to be about our fellow FOFCer.

[Ksyrup]

Join the ROTC - Run Over To Canada.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Axxon

I thought this was going to be about our fellow FOFCer.

Don't feel bad, that was my first thought too.

[Chubby]

Good thing canada is an hour and a half away

[finkenst]

good thing i'm past draft age.

[yabanci]

they should do it. All the chickenhawks won't be so gung ho for pertetual war if it means buffy and sissy might have to go.

[Poli]

This should read: Army and Marines may need draft. The Air Force and Navy have no problem in recruiting, to my knowledge.

[Axxon]

I think a draft would pretty much sink Bush's chance for reelection so it ain't gonna happen until after November if it does happen.

[Leonidas]

Chuck Hagel is always rattling the cage. The Republicans don't take him too seriously. Recruting standards are way higher now than during the Cold War. They will lower standars to bring more folks in before doing the draft. If you are really worried about it, join volunteer for the AF and don't volunteer for pararescue, TACP, forward air control, or anything to do with TALCE and you'll likely stay well behind the lines.

[TLK]

but I'm an only son.....

[Dutch]

Kerry would be more likely to implement the draft than Bush. Good luck with that.

[NoMyths]

Originally Posted by Dutch

Kerry would be more likely to implement the draft than Bush. Good luck with that.

This would seem to be a rather dubious statement. How do you figure?

[Suicane75]

What kind of signing bonus comes with being drafted first?

[sabotai]

A draft for Iraq? But I thought the war was over....

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by sabotai

A draft for Iraq? But I thought the war was over....

We won, remember. The aircraft carrier banner said so

[33sherman]

Originally Posted by yabanci

they should do it. All the chickenhawks won't be so gung ho for pertetual war if it means buffy and sissy might have to go.

I agree. But something tells me buffy and sissy are going to be safe no matter what.

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by NoMyths

This would seem to be a rather dubious statement. How do you figure?

Most of the people pushing for the draft in Congress have been Democrats arguing that "rich kids" don't serve their country.

[Poli]

Originally Posted by Chubby

We won, remember. The aircraft carrier banner said so

The only banner I had on the carrier was

"This party sucks."

Which hung in my shop.

[Hurst2112]

Draft huh? Sounds like I have to practice up on my flag and card burning skills.

[Fritz]

For you potential future draft dodgers

Many of the Vietnam era loopholes will be gone and some agreements with Canada will prevent the going north syndrome. you will have to try a little harder.

-----
Second, compulsory military service is not democratic. You have been enjoying the US for 18-24 years, time to pony up.

----

That said, I don't think we will see a draft.

[Tekneek]

A just military cause will get enough volunteers. If you aren't getting enough volunteers, then the people in this country don't feel the cause is justified.

[Poli]

Originally Posted by Fritz

military service is not democratic.

Amen.

[Axxon]

Originally Posted by Fritz

Second, compulsory military service is not democratic. You have been enjoying the US for 18-24 years, time to pony up.

I don't get where you're going with that. What is the connection between military service and a democracy. I've never thought of the two concepts being tied together, compulsory or not. Military service is a universal concept, no matter the type of government and I can't see where the implementation of the draft would vary based on the type of government.

[Peregrine]

Yeah they promise a draft but it never happens, some judge always steps in at the last minute and says I can't join. - Maurice Clarett

[Tekneek]

Forced conscription is denying you a right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Are you a free man, or a slave that the government can force into military action at any time?

[Easy Mac]

yes

[Axxon]

Originally Posted by ardent enthusiast

Amen.

I still don't see why you guys are tying a form a government to the issue.

Service to ones country is a responsibility not a right says it better and it encapsulates even those who cannot serve in a military capacity.

[JeeberD]

If my country needs me to serve it, I will be more than happy to go. My father and my grandfather have both served in the Army and fought in wars for this country. I have no qualms with doing the same thing.

[Fritz]

Axxon, I am not tying a form a govt to military service.

[Hurst2112]

Originally Posted by JeeberD

If my country needs me to serve it, I will be more than happy to go. My father and my grandfather have both served in the Army and fought in wars for this country. I have no qualms with doing the same thing.

And it's people like your father and grandfather, my grandfather, and great grandfather, who gave me the right to say no to a draft. I thank men like that with all sincerity.

If my county needs me to serve it, take a number. My god and family are first.

[Fritz]

Originally Posted by Tekneek

A just military cause will get enough volunteers. If you aren't getting enough volunteers, then the people in this country don't feel the cause is justified.

You think 11million people enlisted during ww2?

[SunDancer]

Originally Posted by Dutch

Kerry would be more likely to implement the draft than Bush. Good luck with that.

Ugh...Not sure where you come up that statement. Kerry wants to hand over Iraq to the UN.

[LionsFan10]

Originally Posted by Hurst2112

If my county needs me to serve it, take a number. My god and family are first.

Very well put, my outlook exactly.

[Fritz]

Look, if you fellows don;t want a draft drop a note to your congressman.

[SunDancer]

Originally Posted by Fritz

You think 11million people enlisted during ww2?

But isn't comparing the emotions and feelings of World War 2 to Iraq a big difference?

[Axxon]

Originally Posted by Hurst2112

And it's people like your father and grandfather, my grandfather, and great grandfather, who gave me the right to say no to a draft. I thank men like that with all sincerity.

If my county needs me to serve it, take a number. My god and family are first.

The draft provides exceptions for both of these. I don't think this is a valid argument against the draft, which for the record I am against just for Iraq.

[Fritz]

Originally Posted by SunDancer

But isn't comparing the emotions and feelings of World War 2 to Iraq a big difference?

Certainly. I am just saying that we have used a draft since the Civil War. To tie military manpower needs to a just cause is faulty reasoning based on historic examples.

[Fritz]

FWIW, I am not in favor of a draft. Manpower levels are too low now because of congressional restrictions. Before we draft I think the military needs to be alloted more billets and given the opportunity to fill them through volunteer recruitment.

If we can't fill the needs through regular recruitment, then a draft is an option.
-------

Edit: The military information sources that I follow think any draft will be selective in that the govt will belooking for people with certain professional specilaties. Medical and technology types would be examples of who the govt would seek.

[Axxon]

Originally Posted by Fritz

Certainly. I am just saying that we have used a draft since the Civil War. To tie military manpower needs to a just cause is faulty reasoning based on historic examples.

I could use a draft right about now, but I'm still at work.

Wait a moment, only in the case of vietnam have WE used a draft on a questionable cause and it was in large part a negative reaction to that fact that ended the draft in the first place.

[Hurst2112]

Originally Posted by Axxon

The draft provides exceptions for both of these. I don't think this is a valid argument against the draft, which for the record I am against just for Iraq.

I wasn't aware that the draft had exceptions for family and religion. I was wrong (when are you gonna hear that posted on FOFC?!) That doesn't take away from what my relatives went to war for. It also doesn't detract from the fact that I am against any form of a draft.

But I can save that for another draft.

[Fritz]

Originally Posted by Axxon

Wait a moment, only in the case of vietnam have WE used a draft on a questionable cause and it was in large part a negative reaction to that fact that ended the draft in the first place.

Do you wish to back that up with historic examples? I think you may have a hard time.

[Poli]

Originally Posted by Axxon

I still don't see why you guys are tying a form a government to the issue.

Service to ones country is a responsibility not a right says it better and it encapsulates even those who cannot serve in a military capacity.

Perhaps you missed what I did. I took Fritz's post out of context.

Ever served? The military is hardly "democratic" at times.

[Fritz]

Originally Posted by Hurst2112

I wasn't aware that the draft had exceptions for family and religion.

No, you were probably more right than wrong.

[Calis]

Originally Posted by ardent enthusiast

This should read: Army and Marines may need draft. The Air Force and Navy have no problem in recruiting, to my knowledge.

Haven't read this whole thread so I might be repeating, but let me back this up by saying I know for a fact the AF isn't having trouble filling slots as we're working on getting rid of about 14,000 bodies by the end of the year, hence how I'm managing to sneak out.

Not to say we aren't hard up for certain AFSC's though, but that's always the case.

I can't imagine us having a draft, but I wouldn't be one crying out against if it happened obviously. I think it would create more problems than it solved in the end, but I would enjoy seeing certain individuals get a taste of military life.

[Axxon]

Originally Posted by Fritz

Do you wish to back that up with historic examples? I think you may have a hard time.

Since I'm saying that vietnam was the only time that this occured shouldn't you be providing the historic examples that prove otherwise? The other way seems counterintuitive.

[SunDancer]

Actually, if the draft is "re-enacted", aren't the guidelines made up when that happens? It isn't "pre-set".

[Axxon]

Originally Posted by ardent enthusiast

Perhaps you missed what I did. I took Fritz's post out of context.

Ever served? The military is hardly "democratic" at times.

I did notice what you did but was focussed on my question.

[Poli]

Originally Posted by Calis

Haven't read this whole thread so I might be repeating, but let me back this up by saying I know for a fact the AF isn't having trouble filling slots as we're working on getting rid of about 14,000 bodies by the end of the year, hence how I'm managing to sneak out.

Not to say we aren't hard up for certain AFSC's though, but that's always the case.

I can't imagine us having a draft, but I wouldn't be one crying out against if it happened obviously. I think it would create more problems than it solved in the end, but I would enjoy seeing certain individuals get a taste of military life.

Exactly. I joke that my schoolhouse has more mop buckets than students. Not true, but a far cry from what it used to be. The Navy is cutting jobs as it is.

Wish they'd cut mine.