NFL 2018 Season Thread

[SlyBelle1]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

And yet he's won at a much higher clip than McCarthy and Payton, who have had 2 of the top 3 QBs in the entire league their entire tenure. Some insane comments in this discussion.

Unless I am reading coaching records wrongs, don't see Tomlin winning at a much higher clip than those coaches.

Wins/Years in Playoffs/Super Bowl Wins

McCarthy 125/9/1
Tomlin 125/8/1
Payton 118/6/1

[SlyBelle1]

Originally Posted by weegeebored

I don't know what anyone might see in Hue Jackson that qualifies him as head coaching material. And he seems toxic to an organization on top of that. No thank you.

I don't disagree with that either, no desire for him to be a coach....just an example of potential coaches (among others) who might have had greater success with a better organization and talent around him.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by SlyBelle1

Please explain to me what specifically Tomlin brings to the table. Yes, the team he has coached has had success, but I would argue that is a result of the talent and organization around him. Tell me what coaching decisions, gameplans, and specific things he has shown to say it was specifically because of him. In other coaches like Patriots, Rams, and Eagles, you can tell the coach is actually making a difference on the field....provide me some examples where Tomlin demonstrates those things? He is a nice "safe" coach to have, but nothing special.

and you aren't willing to give Tomlin any credit for developing those players or his part in the organization being what it is? For putting AB and Bell in situations fitting their strengths so they can blossom?

If you are asking me to point to a specific play or adjustment he made your are being ridiculous. I don't spend my time watching Steelers game film.

To suggest that Jackson could go in to Pitt and win given what we have sen from him so far is absurd. Did you watch any of the Browns first 8 games? Did you watch Hard Knocks?

[bhlloy]

Originally Posted by SlyBelle1

Unless I am reading coaching records wrongs, don't see Tomlin winning at a much higher clip than those coaches.

Wins/Years in Playoffs/Super Bowl Wins

McCarthy 125/9/1
Tomlin 125/8/1
Payton 118/6/1

Yup, you're reading it wrong. As previously mentioned, Tomlin has the second highest winning percentage (by quite a bit) of any coach not named Belicheck.

[SlyBelle1]

Originally Posted by Lathum

and you aren't willing to give Tomlin any credit for developing those players or his part in the organization being what it is? For putting AB and Bell in situations fitting their strengths so they can blossom?

If you are asking me to point to a specific play or adjustment he made your are being ridiculous. I don't spend my time watching Steelers game film.

To suggest that Jackson could go in to Pitt and win given what we have sen from him so far is absurd. Did you watch any of the Browns first 8 games? Did you watch Hard Knocks?

Of course Tomlin is part of the organization, no dispute there. My point is I don't believe if you put Tomlin in another organization without the strong talent (Ben, Bell, Brown) and structure/tradition he would be as successful.

No not asking you to watch every game film, but besides his record, what does everyone else say about him that makes him standout? When you talk about Patriots you here about the great strategy and adjustments. When you talk about the Rams and Eagles, you talk about the innovative offenses. etc. There really is nothing special or specific that gets said about Tomlin. I have watched just about every game the Steelers have played under Tomlin and not here trying to say he is the worst coach in the world. Just saying I have seen many bad decisions and questionable things that make me think he'll be a decent coach that will win a bunch of games, but when it counts in the playoffs and winning the super bowl, I don't have the same faith he can do that.

As for Hue, as mentioned many times, not a fan of him either....no idea how he would have turned out with a good organization and talent, but was more meant to be an example of having a coach fit the system.

[SlyBelle1]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

Yup, you're reading it wrong. As previously mentioned, Tomlin has the second highest winning percentage (by quite a bit) of any coach not named Belicheck.

I get the team has won a lot, but that still doesn't mean it was specifically because of Tomlin. Again, not saying he is a horrible coach, just saying I believe the organization/system/talent, along with the coaching makes the Steelers successful. Of course not every coach would be a good fit, but I do believe if the Steelers were to ever replace Tomlin, they would again find another coach that fit their system and they would have similar success. Likewise, if Tomlin landed with another team, I don't believe that team would suddenly become elite because of him specifically.

Doesn't really matter since Tomlin isn't going anywhere and hopefully he does prove me wrong in the coming years

[PilotMan]

I love AB, as I love the Steelers. I think he's an incredible talent and a great face for the club. His attitude and strong desire to win are something that every team wishes they could get out of a player.

Having said that. No player is ever above the team. Yeah, you make the money and put the butts in the seats right now, but this ain't the Pittsburgh AB's. When any player decides that they are in charge of the game, they have to be prepared to deal with the consequences. When you think the world revolves around your ability, it can be kind of humbling when you see that it does indeed keep going without you.



I don't know what is in store for the team, but knowing that we have drama to deal with in the offseason, it doesn't make be happy. It's always been the Bengals and company holding down the fort for drama.

[Carman Bulldog]

Originally Posted by stevew

Tomlin has had a top 5 or so QB his entire tenure. That can’t be understated. Hue Jackson could get this team to the playoffs. Tomlin is basically Colts Jim Caldwell.

Using the Football Reference Approximate Value metric, Ben has never been higher than 7th in Approximate Value at the QB position in a single season. He's actually a significantly middle of the road quarterback and is often in the 12-16 range. This year, ProFootballFocus has him as the 16th best QB. I don't have a premium account, but if someone does(?), my guess is that he averages out over Tomlin's tenure to around the 10th-12th best QB each year.

Even if you look at cumulative AV since Tomlin's first year, Ben is sixth, behind Brady, Brees, Rivers, Rodgers and Ryan. All of those guys bar Brady have had multiple losing seasons.

Also like I said, 10-8 record with backup QB's, a group that includes Charlie Batch, Landry Jones and Dennis Dixon. By comparison, the Packers are 6-11-1 without Rodgers.

Originally Posted by SlyBelle1

Please explain to me what specifically Tomlin brings to the table. Yes, the team he has coached has had success, but I would argue that is a result of the talent and organization around him. Tell me what coaching decisions, gameplans, and specific things he has shown to say it was specifically because of him. In other coaches like Patriots, Rams, and Eagles, you can tell the coach is actually making a difference on the field....provide me some examples where Tomlin demonstrates those things? He is a nice "safe" coach to have, but nothing special.

Having a great offensive mind or defensive mind or whatever is great. I think however that the most important thing that the Head Coach can do is instill a culture. Michael Lombardi's Ted Talk sums it up nicely.
Essentially this involves a. Command of the Room; b. Command of the Message, c. Command of the Process and d. Command of Self.

Sure, he's had some problem players. But at the same time, the fact that Aaron Hernandez murdered someone directly under Belichick's watch doesn't make Belichick a bad coach. It's how you respond and deal with these situations. The Steelers had a lot of distractions this year and were still within a half-game of making the playoffs (and arguably had as good a shot as anyone at winning the AFC if they did).

[Carman Bulldog]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

Yup, you're reading it wrong. As previously mentioned, Tomlin has the second highest winning percentage (by quite a bit) of any coach not named Belicheck.

And with a noticeably inferior QB at that.

[albionmoonlight]

My picks this weekend:

Colts over Texans (close game)
Cowboys over Seahawks (7-10 pt game)
Ravens over Chargers (close game)
Bears over Eagles (blowout)

[NobodyHere]

Nice start for the Colts, TY was unstoppable on the opening drive.

[AlexB]

Melvin Gordon’s Uber driver trash talks the Chargers

I watched most of this with a huge grin on my face - fair play to both of them!

[NobodyHere]

That second drive was pretty good too.

[bhlloy]

This has been about as well of a called couple of drives as I have seen in a long time.

[AlexB]

That’s a try in rugby, not sure about a TD in the NFL though...

[NobodyHere]

If the Colts want to go deep in the playoffs then they need to score points in BOTH halves.

[Thomkal]

Hate playoff games that are basically over at halftime

[bhlloy]

How was the TV spotter the only person in the universe who didn’t see Hurns foot facing the wrong way there. Thanks for the slow motion close up though guys.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

How was the TV spotter the only person in the universe who didn’t see Hurns foot facing the wrong way there. Thanks for the slow motion close up though guys.

Yeah when I saw him laying on the ground and his other foot straight up in the air, I knew it was a serious break. I didn't need the replay... ugh.

[JPhillips]

I have never identified more with an NFL player than I do now with Janakowski and his pulled hammy.

[bhlloy]

I don’t really understand why the Seahawks aren’t trying to get Wilson out of the pocket more. I mean I don’t understand why they don’t invest more in their offensive line to begin with, but seeing as they don’t have a line that can hold a pocket for more than a couple seconds, I’m not sure why all these pass plays have him just sitting there.

[bhlloy]

DOLA - I think the stories to come out of the games today are that the Colts won with some brilliant, inventive offensive play calling (at least in the first half) and the Seahawks lost because of completely the opposite.

Once they started to get Wilson out of the pocket and a threat to run the ball or throw deep in the fourth the offense started to move a bit, but it took three quarters of awful runs into the line on first and second and rushed throws out of the pocket on third to get there.

[Atocep]

Lamar Jackson has really played in about 7 games plus half a quarter and has fumbled 14 times.

[Carman Bulldog]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

Once they started to get Wilson out of the pocket and a threat to run the ball or throw deep in the fourth the offense started to move a bit, but it took three quarters of awful runs into the line on first and second and rushed throws out of the pocket on third to get there.

The play calling was really weird (awful?). It seemed like the Seahawks absolutely tried to force a whole bunch of read-option runs in the hopes of setting up a big fourth quarter for Russell Wilson for both the read-option and play-action. Unfortunately for them, by the time they got to the fourth quarter, it was really too late (penalties killed one of the drives).

By my count, this is what the play calling looked like on 1st and 2nd down, prior to that final scoring drive (in which Wilson was 2 for 4 for 62 yards on 1st/2nd down)...

Runs - 20 runs, 58 yards (including a 28 yard carry... outside of that on 1st and 2nd down they were 19 carries for 30 yards)

Passes - 11 of 13, 139 yards (13 of 17 for 201 when you count that final drive)

They had a ton of success when they threw the ball on 1st and 2nd down and they just refused to do it. Sometimes the pass needs to set up the run. Russell Wilson is your best player. Put the ball in his hands and let him win the game for you.

[cartman]

anyone else getting that annoying squeak in the Ravens-Chargers game?

[NobodyHere]

Shouldn't that have been a roughing the kicker penalty on the Ravens? What am I missing here.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

Shouldn't that have been a roughing the kicker penalty on the Ravens? What am I missing here.

No roughing if the ball is touched

[cartman]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

Shouldn't that have been a roughing the kicker penalty on the Ravens? What am I missing here.

He blocked the kick. If the rusher can touch the ball, there isn't roughing.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by cartman

He blocked the kick. If the rusher can touch the ball, there isn't roughing.

oic. Thanks

[Jas_lov]

Flacco should have started the 2nd half. Jackson is just awful.

[Atocep]

This is more or less what I expected to see in this game.

The Ravens are really difficult to prepare for in 1 week, but the Chargers had just played them 2 weeks ago so you had to figure a 2nd look at the things they're doing with Jackson at QB would be a huge help.

This is just a variation on what the Broncos were doing with Tebow. It took some time for the league to catch up, but they did.

Jackson is a terrible QB right now and he's only 21 years old right now, but if you're choosing between the rookie QBs that played this year who are you taking over Jackson?

[bronconick]

Wonder if John Harbaugh is looking at another job, because he's sure shitting the bad with Flacco on the bench.

[bhlloy]

Spoiler alert: so is Flacco. Jackson at least gives you a chance against a tram with any kind of decent pass rush, although this has clearly been a step up he hasn’t been ready for today.

[kingfc22]

Ravens D and Special teams need 3 TD’s. Jackson isn’t going to get it done in this one.

[bhlloy]

Originally Posted by Atocep

This is more or less what I expected to see in this game.

The Ravens are really difficult to prepare for in 1 week, but the Chargers had just played them 2 weeks ago so you had to figure a 2nd look at the things they're doing with Jackson at QB would be a huge help.

This is just a variation on what the Broncos were doing with Tebow. It took some time for the league to catch up, but they did.

Jackson is a terrible QB right now and he's only 21 years old right now, but if you're choosing between the rookie QBs that played this year who are you taking over Jackson?

I’m... all of them except maybe Allen? Mayfield has looked good, Darnold has looked great in spurts with absolutely no talent or offensive line, Rosen is at least an average QB and will be fine if the Cards can keep him alive and Allen is probably a toss up but he’s probably more likely to absorb those big hits and has a much better arm.

[Vince, Pt. II]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

I’m... all of them except maybe Allen? Mayfield has looked good, Darnold has looked great in spurts with absolutely no talent or offensive line, Rosen is at least an average QB and will be fine if the Cards can keep him alive and Allen is probably a toss up but he’s probably more likely to absorb those big hits and has a much better arm.

I think he meant to type "who are you taking Jackson over," not what he typed.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Vince, Pt. II

I think he meant to type "who are you taking Jackson over," not what he typed.

I sure hope so.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Vince, Pt. II

I think he meant to type "who are you taking Jackson over," not what he typed.

Yeah read what I meant, not what I typed.

[NobodyHere]

Baltimore gets a gift from the refs.

[Lathum]

It would be the most Chargers thing ever to lose this game

[bhlloy]

Originally Posted by Lathum

It would be the most Chargers thing ever to lose this game

Feels like it, although in reality it might not break the top 5. Pass interference and a TD on an untimed play sounds about right.

[Atocep]

That is one of the dumbest calls I've seen. It was a catch, but a fumble with no clear recovery, so it's not a catch.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Atocep

That is one of the dumbest calls I've seen. It was a catch, but a fumble with no clear recovery, so it's not a catch.

Even the Eagles were moving down the field

[Atocep]

Why in the hell wasn't it a catch and dead when the ref touched it?

[Jas_lov]

Because the refs have no clue what the hell the rules are. They never have. That expert ref in the booth just shrugged his shoulders and said "I guess that's the rule..."

[kingfc22]

Per a couple credible sources on Twitter, the rule book states: "If there is no video evidence of a clear recovery or the ball going out of bounds,the ruling of incomplete stands."

Add that to the dumbest rule out there.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by kingfc22

Per a couple credible sources on Twitter, the rule book states: "If there is no video evidence of a clear recovery or the ball going out of bounds,the ruling of incomplete stands."

Add that to the dumbest rule out there.

That's as dumb as it gets.

[Carman Bulldog]

Originally Posted by Atocep

That's as dumb as it gets.

Meh, seems to me both teams deserve what happened considering players on neither team made an effort to recover it. If the Bears pick it up, they score and get 7. If the Eagles pick it up, they save themselves from allowing that field goal at the end.

Split the difference (7-3) and the end result of a Bears field goal seems just.

[Atocep]

Is it me or has the NFL just decided to stop calling false starts when they're withing half a snap count or so? I see a lot of tackles appear to jump into their stance just ahead of the snap and it's not getting called.

[Jas_lov]

Bears just should have lost to the Vikings last week and kept the Eagles out of the playoffs.