Civ4 - BTS "The Arabian Empire" (56k warning - many graphics)

[Alan T]

As there appear to be quite a few people here who play and enjoy Civilization 4, I decided I would start a new game and share my conquest or defeat with everyone. I decided for the challenge that I would play on Monarch difficulty level, which I have only beaten a handful of times. This means I could very well lose here in front of everyone, but hopefully it will be fun and entertaining to do so

Just for ground rules in this thread, I fully welcome criticism, comments and questions. I by no means am the best Civ player on the earth, nor am I even the best civ player I know. In fact I might just learn more from the readers of this thread than you learn from me. Just please try to keep it civil. I will try to explain my thought process behind actions as long as people do not ridicule me for those actions!

In order to make it even more of a challenge, lets start off with a random civilization.. No cherry picking this time!


We are going to play marathon speed, Hemispheres map, and everything else set to random also!

So we start the game up, and ironically enough I end up with one of my more enjoyed leaders/civs to play.



I tend to play far more comfortable with a religious civ that I focus all of my science and commerce around the religion. With Saladin we start with Mysticism which gives an early leg up for early religions as well as one of my favorite early wonders (Stonehenge). We also have the Wheel which will allow us roads to start with.



The starting spot isn't too bad at all, there are hills for mining and likely will eventually pop some valuable metals (possibly iron or copper), two fresh water sources and the coast line. The major downside here is that I only have wheat available resource wise right now. That might slow me down a good bit to start especially on marathon level.

9 times out of 10 I usually start my initial city where it drops you off. I find missing that one turn of production so early on sets you pretty far behind other civs, even on easier levels so you need a good reason to move. I pretty much defy all of my normal thinkings and move one spot to the north with my settler anyways without a good reason.

Mecca has been founded!



As Mecca expands, in the starting location, it would have included one hill to the SE, but the rest plains or grasslands. As there is coast here, and two fresh water sources, I decide already that I plan on raising the happy cap on this city big time, and overflowing population to generate many specialist here. I don't think the hill to the SE will be as important and can settle a later city to take those hills if some resource pops there.

Don't get me wrong, I probably shouldn't have moved the settler, as the game tends to give favorable starting locations, but I took a chance. Hope I don't get burned

[Alan T]

Now we need to decide what to build in Mecca. Even as my culture expands the city in a few turns, I still will only have forests and wheat inside of my city radius to work on. There will be plenty of food for a while, and health won't really be an issue.. This city will run into happiness issues before either of the other two have problems.

I started out with only a warrior to explore with, and since this is a huge map, we probably want to have more than one unit out exploring. I likely have a few turns before any barbarians show up, and even then it will all be animals for a while. The only real exploring unit I have currently is another warrior, so lets start with that. It will take 15 turns for him to build, so off exploring we go!

Also I forgot to mention, we received 57 gold from a hut that was next to us. It probably will be useful to have a treasury for any events that may come early on, however there are far better things to be found in those huts than money. At least it wasn't hostile villagers

Next we also need to decide what to research first. Agriculture likely would be usable for that wheat, there are no places to use animal husbandry around, so that can wait a bit.. The same applies for fishing as well. That leaves me two different options here. I can open up bronze working and masonry by researching mining, or I can go the religious route.

You probably already can guess which path I am taking. Having started with mysticism, its a nice leg up on discovering one of the early religions. I usually like to go after Meditation first, however on this level the AI techs faster than I do, plus I wasted a turn moving my settler at the start. The safe move I feel here is going this direction:



I think I likely still have a decent chance of getting Hinduism, and if for some reason I fail, I still will want to go for organized religion and can try for a religion there as well.

Now its 15 turns for the warrior to be built, 33 turns for Mecca to grow, and 42 turns for Polytheism to be discovered.. Time to explore a bit.

[Alan T]

Looking around the area, we find a nice spot for Mecca's sister city.



Cows, two wines and Clams off of the shoreline if we position the town just right. The only bad thing is because the land is so narrow here, there will be one square of overlap with Mecca. Of course if I had not moved my settler initially, that wouldn't have been a problem here either!

We receive 52 gold from a nearby hut, kill a ferocious lion and continue on our way. A few turns later, our warrior has been built in Mecca!



We still have 27 turns left for Polytheism to be discovered and 18 turns until Mecca grows to size 2, so our choices on what to build next is rather limited. If we build a worker, there would be nothing for him to do for quite a while. I feel a Settler right now would slow down Mecca's growth for far too long (75 turns!).

So I could build another warrior, a monument, barracks or start working on Stonehenge. I love Stonehenge, I normally try to build it if I can first thing. In this game however, I figure I would play it a bit safer. Lets continue looking around to see if there might be some stone that can help speed up its construction. I'll hold off on building a monument for now as well since I would like to plan for Stonehenge early on.

Right now I have two warriors, and on a huge map, I don't really think I'll need an army just yet. That leaves me the Barracks as the only real item worthwhile to build. I doubt I will let it complete however, 75 turns is alot to wait right now for its construction. Lets start up the Barracks with the intent to switch to something else for a bit once it becomes reasonable.

I find another goody hut and they grant my warrior free experience. 6/2 for my warrior now and he gets bumped up to Woodsman II instantly. That should help the wandering around through the woods being able to move twice as fast.

Small problem.. My woodsman II warrior got caught with his pants down in a non forest square by a hungry bear...



Well, that is rather annoying. Well, lets put the Barracks on hold for a bit and build a new warrior. We'll make him stronger, smarter, faster... less tasty...



We see that Mecca will grow to size two in only 5 more turns!

[Alan T]

The very next turn, as suspected I'm not the only one beelining for a religion.



I still have 13 turns left for Polytheism. Lets hope no other civs out there started with Mysticism and decided to go the route that I did.

Finally we have made contact with another civilization.



Pericles doesn't bother me being so close. He is Creative and Philosophical and I usually do not have bad dealings with him. He is an early target to try to befriend most likely in my mind.

The Warrior being built in Mecca finishes and work resumes on the Barracks. At this point I revisit my build options.. I could build yet another warrior as I'll want more than one guarding my city in the near future.. or I could start something else. It still will be quite a bit until I have something useful for a worker to do, so lets keep building the barracks for a while. I worry however that I have put stonehenge off for so long, I won't complete it in time. I haven't found any stone either to help speed it up.

On turn 43, we have finally discovered Polytheism!



And of course being the first to discover it means we also have a new religion:



That was a relief, as I feel getting one of the early religions will be key in my strategy as Arabia to prospering. I immediately convert over to Hinduism which helps increase the happy cap by one in Mecca (not that I was pushing against it just yet anyways).

Now, the next decision, what to research next...



The AI recommends Hunting, which I don't feel is worth my time. No AI civs appear to be anywhere near close to me, and the Barbarians aren't getting overly tough just yet. I could start mining up in order to unlock Masonry which will be needed to get to Organized religion and the Oracle as well as unlocking Bronze working for chopping and slavery. I probably make another mistake here, but instead I chose to go with Agriculture instead. I am concerned that I still haven't gotten any workers out, my city is growing painfully slow and wheat is my only real good way to speed that up.

So its 29 turns for agriculture, but a worker would only take 15 turns. We'll keep working on those barracks for a bit.

[Passacaglia]

I'm reading. I don't have BtS yet, and I haven't played Civ4 nearly as much as Civ1 and Civ2, so I'll surely be on the receiving end of tips here.

[Passacaglia]

there are hills for mining and likely will eventually pop some valuable metals (possibly iron or copper)

Is there any reason you thought that was likely? Or was it just wishful thinking?

[Passacaglia]

And FTR, I approve of the positioning of Mecca. My new thing has been to maximize the amount of spaces that are within city radii in my empire, by building as many cities on the coasts as I can, to take advantage of all the sea spaces that go unused.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Is there any reason you thought that was likely? Or was it just wishful thinking?

It might very well be wishful thinking. Something that I have come to find though is that the Game will give you a favorable starting location that usually contains certain amounts of resources. My starting location this time had only 1 resource visible to me within it. I either got really unlucky or there are some hidden resources. My guess is either copper, iron or horses.

I could be really wrong though, I hope not!

[gi]

I've found that in cases such as that, resources are hidden. My opinion follows your earlier train of thought in that you need to build the city on the 1st turn or fall behind on tech and growth. Good luck, I'm reading.

[FrogMan]

all caught up to now, I'll be reading from now on, and will probably learn a whole lot by reading your thought process

FM

[Alan T]

After a few more turns, I get to the point where I want to time a worker being built right when Agriculture is available. I feel that I wasted too much time for my city to grow, and want to remedy that asap. It will take 24 turns to build a worker (I think I said 15 incorrectly earlier), so once agriculture reaches 24 turns left, we pause the barracks being built once more and get a worker ready.



I also am curious about that little island to my NW. As more is available, I don't see any resources there yet, however it looks bigger than a tiny island at the least.



Now the bear earlier I could understand, but this is just unlucky. No reason my warrior should have died to this panther. That puts my exploration even that much further behind now.

Just in time, Gibbon comes along to pour some salt in the wound.



This measures the largest civilizations at the time. The AI does everything faster than a human player on this level, so its no suprise with my delayed city build start that I am not on the list. I still feel ok about my chances, I don't think I have been left in the dust just yet.

Several more turns pass, and finally agriculture has been learned by my civilization.



Also, my worker whom I timed to complete at the same time showed up and I put him immediately into the fields to work.



This brings me back to the technology question once more.. Pottery won't do a thing for me right now, Most of my land is burried in trees. Animal Husbandry won't be useful until I get a second city. I don't have any use for fishing boats or camps either, and with only finding one other civ thus far and not an overly aggressive one at that, I don't need archers either just yet.

The decision comes down to either going for Organised Religion or work for bronze working/masonry/oracle. The decision ends up a no brainer, and I begin on mining. It will open up both Masonry and Bronze working for me. Even though I have nothing to mine right now, this is by far the most important path for me.

[Alan T]

It looks like we finally found someone else on this continent. (I haven't shown the globe view yet, but trust me that I have covered quite alot of ground to have not encountered anyone just yet.)



Louis is similar to Pericles and is Creative and Industrious instead. Once again this is another leader that I typically do not have problems with, and so far my continent mates are shaping up to be pretty likable for me.

My worker finishes up his farming of that wheat, and I put him to work building a road to connect the wheat to the capital. The road will only give me 1 health at this time and no other real benefits, but I don't really have much else that I could put my worker to use at the time. My entire area is covered in woods except the wheat plot and two grasslands plots. One of the grasslands plot has no fresh water source and can not be irrigated for a farm. The other one however could be, yet I didn't see it last night while playing. In hindsight, I should have gone ahead and built a farm there for extra growth. I have quite a huge distance between population and my happiness cap right now, so that 1 extra food per turn probably would have been better right now.

The road finishes up, and instead of seeing that grasslands area that I could have improved, I missed it completely. I didn't want my worker to sit around idly so I already had decided on the location for my second city. I put him to work building the road for it to be already connected up once I build it. It doesn't help me any now, but hopefully will save some time when I get to that point.

I finally have learned mining.



And as mentioned, it is pretty obvious what my next research should be. (Even though Masonry is important for multiple reasons, I really need Bronze working right now.



Toynbee informs me that I am no where near advanced as many of the other civilizations (once again as expected.)



I notice that Pericles also is not on the list. Thanks to Espionage I see he is actually behind me in researching Mining right now. He likely diverted to some other tech along the way. Neither Louis or Pericles have founded any religion thus far, so I have two cultures I can later spread through it appears to make me more money.

[Passacaglia]

This really makes me want to play marathon -- I've never done that before. But it seems like it eliminates something that's bugged me about Civ -- why does it take 20 years to move my warrior one space? It's one thing if I'm exploring a new area, but if I'm not, it's ridiculous for it to take that long.

[Passacaglia]

Is espionage a new thing in BtS? It seems weird to me -- you're still figuring out the basics of technology, but you're able to find out what some other group of people that you barely have contact with are researching?

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

This really makes me want to play marathon -- I've never done that before. But it seems like it eliminates something that's bugged me about Civ -- why does it take 20 years to move my warrior one space? It's one thing if I'm exploring a new area, but if I'm not, it's ridiculous for it to take that long.

I believe there are some bugs in Marathon with BTS currently. I have Solver's unofficial patch which supposedly fixes those though. I typically play normal speed with my wife, but marathon in single play

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Is espionage a new thing in BtS? It seems weird to me -- you're still figuring out the basics of technology, but you're able to find out what some other group of people that you barely have contact with are researching?

Yes, Espionage is new for BtS. I know the basics of how it works, but am just starting to understand more complex issues with Espionage. Basically it represents the fundamental interaction between civilizations, not just my warrior talking to your scout. Once you make contact with the other civ, you start building espionage points with them. The more EP you build up, the more actions that become available. The very first Espionage action that can occur is a passive one (you do not have to do anything to activate it.) Simply having a certain amount of points with them you will be able to see what they are currently researching. Later on with more points you can try to steal money, technology, cause unhappiness, poison the water, etc.

[Alan T]

Still not alot of options for what I can build. I mentioned before that I love building stonehenge, however I don't see that happening here. I feel like I have gotten off to a slow start, and need to push forward with growth. Right now the culture from the Stonehenge isn't as big of a deal to me since it is replacable by monuments. I will miss out on an early Great Prophet however, but we can look for different ways to compensate for that.

I really feel it is a good time to push forward with a new city. I probably should have paused the barracks even earlier and started a settler once I reached size 3 in Mecca. I notice that Mecca is 3 turns from becoming size 4 now, and decide to build another warrior (8 turns) first. Right now my home defense is 1 warrior in Mecca.. which is pretty lousy. A new warrior will at least give me one in each town. I'm almost to the point where Barbarians will start showing up, so I can't be too lax about this.



My new Warrior has arrived, and I see stonhenge is "only" 72 turns to be built. I still would love it, but I just don't see it happening. I choose to create a settler now.

As I figured, only a handful of turns later:



That was pretty fast though. I'm not sure if I even built that from the beginning if I could have created it by now. Someone must have started right away on it, this is the earliest I have seen that wonder built I believe on Marathon level (turn 113). At least I no longer have it as a distraction I suppose.

My first event of the game, of course its on a square that I would have had if I hadn't moved my settler initially.. So far that move is biting me in the butt big time



From another goody hut:

And a new neighbor:



Good ole JC.. He's Organized and Expansive, but for some reason he usually likes to pick fights with me in most games. If I have to guess of the three I've encountered he might give me the most grief.

And almost immediately after:



So I know JC is ahead of me in teching by a few turns right now. I have 18 turns left on Bronze Working while Pericles is at 23 turns remaining on Bronze working. I have no idea what Louis is up to.

My settler has arrived!



While a monument might not be bad to build now that Stonehenge has been built, I'd rather build another warrior and make use of those barracks I built. My army of two warriors is not really scary right now, and while I don't need a devistating army, I at least need the front of one. No reason to build a worker as there still isn't much to do.

I send my Settler and one of the warriors off to the sister city site that I found earlier, with the cows wine and clams.



Medina has been founded! Medina does not have a palace or any means to develop culture which will be important for the city to grow. I'll use Mecca to build the defenses for Medina, that frees up Medina to build a monument for the culture.

And because I pre-connected the two cities, I get this next turn:

[flere-imsaho]

I'm really loving reading this. I've never played Civ3 or Civ4, so my only yardstick is what I remember from SMAC, and it's amazing to see how far the series has moved on.

By the way, what is "marathon mode"?

[Alan T]

My warrior in Mecca has been built and my army consists now of 4 warriors (1 being used for scouting) and a scout! Watch out world



I don't really need another worker right now, still don't have animal husbandy or monarchy to hook up the cows or wine. I -could- build another settler and try to expand more to catch up, however right now, lets go ahead and put out a monument in Mecca as we'll want that and its fast to be built.

Another neighbor!



Bismark is expansive and industrious and hopefully is no where near me. I find he likes to spread out like crazy in games I play with him.


Finally....



Which leads to:



Which of course we accept.

This means we have to decide on a new tech, and this decision is tough! We want masonry to get to the oracle. We want Monotheism for Organized Religion. We could use fishing to work those clams outside of Medina, or Animal Husbandry to work the cows. Or there is Pottery that can beeline us to Writing ahead of others.

I feel I need to boost my growth a bit more, so decide to go with Animal Husbandry. It can also get us to Writing if we wish, should reveal Horses and will let us work the cows so each town would both have a food resource.



So lets look to see if any Copper popped up around our towns.......

None

A quick view of the Roman Empire. Appears they have three cities so far:



So like I figured, I'm behind already.

And my 5th neighbor:



Yet another Expansive/Organized Leader!

Oh yeah.. remember that scout from earlier?



I always knew I was hopeless, glad I could get some confirmation on that!



It didn't take long for my religion to spread, thanks to the road being built between towns.



It will be very important for my strategy to not only make sure Hinduism is spread throughout my civilization, but also spread through all of my neighbors. Thus far only Buddhism and Hinduism has been discovered, and none of my neighbors have a religion. I hopefully will get my faith to them before some of the next wave of religions enter the lands.

I found the Ottoman Empire, and of course they have Marble sitting right at their doorsteps...



The monument finishes in Mecca, and we really need to spread our land to new towns badly. We need to grow multiple cities to help keep research high enough to keep up with others. From my wandering around the continent, there is no one anywhere close to me, so I have a whole bunch of room to spread. I need to get out there and take advantage of it. I start up a new settler in Mecca to get him ready to go forth. I'll need to find a new spot for a town.

Adding more towns will then add a new problem for the Arabian Empire. I currently am -1 GPT with a decent 161 gold stored up. I'll need to keep a chunk of it for change, but I'll have to start working on ways to fund my growing empire soon. I'll likely let the research slider drop to 60-70% before I worry too much about that. Lets hope I get through to markets and courthouses by that time.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

I'm really loving reading this. I've never played Civ3 or Civ4, so my only yardstick is what I remember from SMAC, and it's amazing to see how far the series has moved on.

By the way, what is "marathon mode"?

There are a few different game settings

Quick, Normal, Epic and Marathon (I might be leaving out one). They don't adjust the game difficulty , just how long the game lasts. In a faster game, things take less time to research, build, etc. In a slower game, they take far longer (like 180 turns to build stonehenge).

I play with my wife multiplayer on Normal speed, but play solo games either Marathon normally (or sometimes Epic).

[Alan T]

I finished up my playing last night at this point..

Here is the current world map from my Point of View.



You can see the Romans to the South and the Ottomans to the Southwest. I assume the others are further east/northeast from me.

Here are the current rankings as well..



I am pretty much in the middle of the pack right now. I have 15 turns until Animal Husbandry will be discovered, and hopefully we will have some nearby horses to make up for the complete lack of copper. Once I get there, I will have to decide which path to take. I'll want to find my third city near the horses if they don't pop in the radius of my first two cities. Without spearmen or Axemen, I'll at least want some chariots and have to consider other options (Either Iron Working or Archery).

Ideally I want to do Masonry next, that will unlock Priesthood and the ability to build the Oracle. If I can get to the Oracle fast enough, I could use the free technology from it to slingshot to Code of Laws which is going to be quite important. It also could help me get caught back up to the leaders techwise.

Other technologies I need to pick up are Monotheism for Organized Religion and Writing. Getting Meditation would be nice, as would Fishing, and Pottery, but I need to focus on getting to the Oracle for now I think.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Originally Posted by Alan T

The only bad thing is because the land is so narrow here, there will be one square of overlap with Mecca.

One square of overlap isn't worth worrying about IMO.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wednesday

One square of overlap isn't worth worrying about IMO.

I agree, I'm far more concerned with wasting the extra turn to move, we'll have to see how that plays out over time though.

[Buccaneer]

So like I figured, I'm behind already.

Yes you are. In my view, your two cities are way too close to each other (there should be no overlap at Influential culture, or at least touching). I usually go about 9-10 tiles away to claim a corner, I can always in-fill later. Also, it is my style not bother with religion, esp. since you are playing on Monarch. The Ottomans (assuming the green are them) and Romans are a bit far away, unfortunately, because the better strategy is to wipe one or both out and claim their capitals as cities #3 and #4 (through vet Axe). But you are going to have trouble dealing with the Roman expansion, and perhaps the Ottoman (I don't quite remember). I would anything to prevent the Romans from gobbling up the empty spaces between you two. It would be my choice to destroy them because I really don't want them as a powerful neighbor.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

Yes you are. In my view, your two cities are way too close to each other (there should be no overlap at Influential culture, or at least touching). I usually go about 9-10 tiles away to claim a corner, I can always in-fill later. Also, it is my style not bother with religion, esp. since you are playing on Monarch. The Ottomans (assuming the green are them) and Romans are a bit far away, unfortunately, because the better strategy is to wipe one or both out and claim their capitals as cities #3 and #4 (through vet Axe). But you are going to have trouble dealing with the Roman expansion, and perhaps the Ottoman (I don't quite remember). I would anything to prevent the Romans from gobbling up the empty spaces between you two. It would be my choice to destroy them because I really don't want them as a powerful neighbor.

I used to do that with making sure the cultures don't overlap, but I changed my approach on that slowly over time. Now I don't want my BFC from the cities to overlap, but I find it far more important for the cities to have a good BFC for what I want them to do. Generally I agree if I start near a Civ early on, I want to get rid of them quick to allow myself more room for expansion. My problem here was that I just didn't find them for quite a long time. I'm not sure why it took me so long this time to find them, but I just got unlucky.

Why do you say that about religion though? I don't always go for it, I try to work to the strengths of my civilization, but of the games I have won on monarch, I believe almost all of them I depended on religion to be the backbone of both my research and my economy.

Stay tuned about that empty spaces between myself, the Ottomans and the Romans, trying to grab that all up is the next step, you'll get to see what happened there last night!

[Alan T]

Gah, I hate when my browser blows up and I lose my post

[Alan T]

Starting up for the evening, lets look again at where I had left off..



My goals for this time around will be to try to hook up some form of trade with the other civilizations in order to try to spread my religion. I also would like to improve my tech standing among the other civs, and I need to spread into the area above and would like to gain a hold of the copper resources in the middle of the map before the Ottomans and Romans do. It would also be nice to try to figure out where the Germans, Greek and French are as I still haven't found them.



Inside of Mecca, we are still slowed by the hapiness cap, so want to improve that and grow the city a bunch more. As you can see we are still building our settler from before to try to use to expand.

It didn't take long into my play session before someone had a notable event.



Not sure where, but someone has achieved Organized Religion. I'll still want to aim for that as well.

My turns are fairly uneventful as I primarily continue to scout around looking for the other civs when I discover Animal Husbandry:



I choose to go with Masonry, its one of my early tech objectives to reach:



Medina finishes up the monument I was building there and culture will start to expand, so I start working on a second worker. I have some unimproved land and will need more workers as I expand to a third city as well.

Shortly after Mecca finishes work on the settler. Without much else to build right now I will add another warrior into the mix. Once I get closer boarders, if the AI feels that I am weak militarily , they -will- declare war on me and invade, even if on good terms.

[Alan T]

I expand to the copper resource and try to claim the middle of the target area.



I built the city in a way that it will expand to include both gold resources and the banana resource inside of the BFC. Even though I built out here, I'll need to build in between my capital and Damascus or the other civs will just build right around me and cause me problems.

I build a few more warriors out of Mecca, until there are better things to build, I'll try to pump out some warriors and settlers from there. I'm only at a -4 GPT at 100% research, so I have a bit of room to expand right now, but I'll need to work on the economy in the future.

I finish up Masonry, and lets go get Priesthood, so we can build the Oracle before some other civilization does. We'll want to try to use it to get to Code Of Laws.

[Buccaneer]

At a quick glance, it appears that your gold (and research rate) is really low for this point of the game but I am not sure if you are playing on Marathon. You should be at 8 turns/tech, I believe. Keep it up, it'll be fun to watch.

[Celeval]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

At a quick glance, it appears that your gold (and research rate) is really low for this point of the game but I am not sure if you are playing on Marathon. You should be at 8 turns/tech, I believe. Keep it up, it'll be fun to watch.

25+ turn techs are not unusual in a Marathon game.

[Radii]

I'm reading, learning a lot already as I'm just beginning to bump up the difficulty in my games and know little about optimization, this is great stuff.

[Izulde]

This dynasty is making me want to finally install Civ IV.

[cubboyroy1826]

Good stuff. I just got BtS a couple of weeks ago and have been playing the Wasteland scenario i think its called. It is a cool departure from the normal game.