AAU Basketball Dead?

[tarcone]

NCAA is taking control of the July eval period. They are going to have universities bid on hosting eval events at their schools. There will be 700 athletes invited to participate. This is where coaches get to go and watch. No more going to shoe sponsored events. April may be on the block also.
The idea is to put recruiting back into the HS coaches hands.

This effectively kills the shoe companies strangle hold on basketball.

Will it be effective? Sounds like the NCAA is grabbing money.

I get why they are doing it after the scandal this past year. But there are a lot of kids out there that will be overlooked. AAU isnt as bad as it is made out to be. But there is a lot of corruption when you get to the elite level.

It will probably save me some money though. This weekend my daughter is in Louisville. She has 2 tourneys. Each tourney costs $55 for a weekend pass. Plus $35 for parking. Plus they are stay and play tourneys. So you have to stay at a hotel sponsoring the tourney or pay a $50 fine. And the hotels jacked their prices by $25 a night.
She is there for 8 days.

Kind of intersted to see how this plays out.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by tarcone

NCAA is taking control of the July eval period. They are going to have universities bid on hosting eval events at their schools. There will be 700 athletes invited to participate. This is where coaches get to go and watch. No more going to shoe sponsored events. April may be on the block also.
The idea is to put recruiting back into the HS coaches hands.

This effectively kills the shoe companies strangle hold on basketball.

Will it be effective? Sounds like the NCAA is grabbing money.

I get why they are doing it after the scandal this past year. But there are a lot of kids out there that will be overlooked. AAU isnt as bad as it is made out to be. But there is a lot of corruption when you get to the elite level.

It will probably save me some money though. This weekend my daughter is in Louisville. She has 2 tourneys. Each tourney costs $55 for a weekend pass. Plus $35 for parking. Plus they are stay and play tourneys. So you have to stay at a hotel sponsoring the tourney or pay a $50 fine. And the hotels jacked their prices by $25 a night.
She is there for 8 days.

Kind of intersted to see how this plays out.

I'm frankly amazed that this is how it goes. I love sports, grew up playing what I could, and maybe it's because we didn't have much money and so it was cheap sports like soccer and swimming that I did, but damn, there is no way you'd get me pulling something like that off on a regular basis. We have bills to pay ffs!

[tarcone]

It is painful. We dont do much or have much money to spare. Im hoping this pays college off. Then it will be worth it.

She has traveled to Chicago, Indy, Louisville, and we still have Wichita and Atlanta left.

[miami_fan]

As long as there are basketball shoes, shoe companies will have a stranglehold on basketball. The changes just seems to switch the shoe money to the NCAA. History is not littered with too many good things that came from the sentences that started with "The NCAA is taking control..."

[JonInMiddleGA]

I'm picturing shoe deals influencing the bids for the hosting.

[tarcone]

Yes. NCAA with a money grab, kids be damned.

A few adults ruining it for all.

[Arles]

Yeah, the shoe money destination just switched from AAU coaches to the NCAA. Nothing will change. Although, we may all get a good laugh when it comes out that someone from the NCAA was brokering money from shoe companies to college coaches (instead of the normal AAU coach funneling system that exists now).

[miami_fan]

NCAA announces new college basketball policy, including agents for players and longer postseason bans

I mean I guess...

[bhlloy]

And that is likely not even going to happen as the NBA and USA basketball didn’t agree to some of the stuff in the report that they are responsible for, and the coach of the biggest program in the country has already come out and basically said it’s a WIP and needs further refinement.

The NCAA everybody!

[Groundhog]

Our national league down here in Australia has quietly rolled out a program intended to offer young American prospects who don't want to/can't go the college route an opportunity to play professionally here, with the league paying the contract and also not having them count towards the 3 import limit. OKC's Terrance Ferguson was the first player to take part, and now Brian Bowen (formerly almost-Lousiville and South Carolina) has signed on with my local team.

Ferguson didn't exactly light the league on fire and it's hard to see Bowen playing big minutes either, but it will be interesting to see if the league continues to develop and promote this as a viable alternative to college, or if it just disappears altogether the first time one of these signees doesn't pan out or suffers a nasty injury.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

The NCAA everybody!

In this instance, honestly, that seems totally & completely fair. With the reactions from the other presumed participants in this "reform", the NCAA just went on their own today & figured everybody would just go along with 'em.

(USAB seems particularly mistreated on this deal, the NCAA trying to basically order them to do stuff that isn't their thing)

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

I'm frankly amazed that this is how it goes. I love sports, grew up playing what I could, and maybe it's because we didn't have much money and so it was cheap sports like soccer and swimming that I did, but damn, there is no way you'd get me pulling something like that off on a regular basis. We have bills to pay ffs!

I don't know how old you are, but I'm guessing around my age at least (mid-40s), because soccer and swimming are not cheap sports at the competitive/travel level today. I know soccer is worse than softball considering they often travel overseas.

While Caitlin was growing up, I kinda watched the whole travel softball industry change for the worse. First, it was the teams - usually travel teams were for the most advanced kids, then all the kids who got left in rec ball felt they deserved to be on travel teams, so tournaments went from selective to "oh God do we really have to play these teams?" As the sport grew more popular and more parents thought their kids deserved college scholarships, the recruiting tournaments went from a few select tournaments to anyone who knew how to run a tournament and had access to fields advertising "recruiting" tournaments. And, some of the legit recruiting tournaments expanded so much that they were putting teams on field miles from where the coaches were, but still charging $1500 a team for entry.

THEN came the "stay to play" BS. That is when it really went off the rails. Instead of finding your own rooms for $99/night, you had to book through the tournament, got whatever fleabag hotel they put you in (usually 30-45 minutes from your fields, too!), and you paid $125-150/night, and they took their cut.

It got to the point where I was happy when Caitlin''s pre-college career ended. We loved the travel and for her to have all of the on-field experiences (including a couple of national championships, which was great), but all the rest that went with it became nothing but a money drain. With our younger daughter, she's not doing travel ball because I'm just not paying for it anymore. She's got some talent, but she's not a D1 prospect like Caitlin, so it's not worth the money. She can join a travel team after junior year, play within KY, and still get recruited to a smaller school. It paid off with Caitlin, but it won't pay off for Mackenzie and I'm just not doing it again. She can play basketball and softball in high school and still find her way to a college without me paying $7500-$10000 a year to "showcase" her talents...

[tarcone]

Yeah, I agree. Basketball is a money drain.

The stay to play crap we ran into this summer. plus we had to pay $30 to park and $55 for a weekend pass to see her play. On top of the $950 we paid to get on the team.

My daughter is D2 level, but she is burning out. Im afraid this was all for naught.

On another note, did you see the NCAA is allowing 15 paid visits to schools instead of 5. This opens the door for more corruption.

[Ksyrup]

The one positive for softball is that the NCAA is actually doing something about early recruiting/commitments. It probably won't stop the travel ball insanity, but the sport was getting a black eye over so many high profile 7th and 8th grade commitments. So they altered the recruiting schedule and now have a rule that there can be no direct or indirect contact with a S/A about recruiting prior to September 1 of their junior year in HS. It still won't stop some of the indirect channels most likely (travel ball coaches), but now players and their parents won't be rushing to post on FB about their 13 year old committing to Oklahoma, or sites like FloSoftball doing 4-part profiles on some 15 year old who openly says who they are committed to.

Of course, in the run-up to the new rule going into effect, there were a bunch of 6th and 7th graders committing to UF and other big name schools. Just crazy.

[PilotMan]

Income Inequality Explains the Decline of Youth Sports - The Atlantic


Pay to play is killing youth sports participation or at the very least at the lower income brackets.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

Income Inequality Explains the Decline of Youth Sports - The Atlantic


Pay to play is killing youth sports participation or at the very least at the lower income brackets.

And no one cares.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

And no one cares.

I read the article and I'm not sure why I should care.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

Income Inequality Explains the Decline of Youth Sports - The Atlantic


Pay to play is killing youth sports participation or at the very least at the lower income brackets.

This is spot on and it has eliminated "standard" youth programs such as Little League and Pop Warner in some places here in Arizona. Now the best athletes are pressured to play one sport year round (Including Football by the NYS league, which is fucking insane by the way, since you NEED time to recover and rebuild due to the physicality of Football)

Carl Hayden, an inner city school where I coached in 2016 and will be returning to next year because I want to spend my last years coaching serving a higher cause than winning games is a perfect example. This area used to have a robust Pop Warner program, but the best athletes were recruited way to other schools or their "feeder' youth teams in the Football version of travel league and the program died in this area.

When Pop Warner was in this area impoverished kids were still able to play because there were grants in place that set registration money aside for the kids, or a "trade" program where a players fee was waived in exchange for the parent working the snack bar or field set up. Now those kids have no options because the whores that run many of these travel teams and lure kids in with promises of trophies, recognition at elite tournaments and connections to camps/colleges that either don't exist or come with a hefty additional price tag.

Yeah, that is a broad statement and doesn't apply to all of these programs for sure, but as a high school coach I have zero fucking time or patience for many of these clubs teams/leagues or the overbearing parents and entitled athletes they turn out. I would much rather coach up a kid with less talent, more humility and a better work ethic.

[Arles]

Yeah, this is a big issue to me. With all the club sports becoming a massive business, I've been focusing the last three years on helping our local little league (Ahwatukee Little League). I just ran for the board, got elected and am in charge of Operations. We've cut costs and setup a sponsorship with Rawlings. Our season starts in February (tryouts in Jan) and runs through mid May. We have reduced the price to $125 for the season - and that includes a full uniform with a named jersey, pants, belt, socks and hat. That basically amounts to $40 a month with no additional costs or travel. We also offer financial assistance for kids in need and even provide "team equipment" if a kid can't afford a bat or helmet. Our registration has increased over the past three years and we should have between 650 and 700 kids this spring. We also don't require any fund raising by the kids and do 2-3 events that help raise funds (with limited parent participation, we lean on a lot of local businesses).

It is really hard to run a non-club youth sports organization, but I think we are one of the few that have found a way. We are still extremely competitive at the higher levels (our All-Star teams have made it far in the Little League WS tournaments), but we also want a place where a 10-year old can play baseball in a fun, affordable manner.

It's really crazy to me how a lot of the parents ride their kids to a ridiculous level with these club/traveling teams. I have a handful of friends who have kids in the 11-15 age range and their sole focus in their kid playing club sports. One parent (who's kid plays hockey), complained to me that he almost had to hold back his kid because of terrible grades - but he never misses his club practices/games. The dad said "we pay so much for hockey, there's no way I could punish him by keeping him out". Another mom has her kid playing club baseball and he got C's and D's on his report card - but he went 3-5 in their last game so she's happy! Since most of these organizations are independent of schools, kids could be failing (or even suspended from school) and still play sports.

One final point: I was talking with a dad who's kid is a solid baseball player (but not a top player). He was justifying club to me by saying if his kid can get a college scholarship, it's all worth it. I told him that only 10% of high school players (many who play club) get a scholarship - and scholarship is often only 1/3 of tuition. Whereas a high percentage of top students get a full ride academic scholarship and there's little to no cost to the parents for having their kids focus on school first. Then, of course, he came up with a gem that sums up the feeling I get through all the parents trying to relive their failed chance at glory through their kids - "Yeah, but how fun is it to watch your kid ace a chemistry exam? Watching him play and win these games is great for him and us".

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by Arles

One final point: I was talking with a dad who's kid is a solid baseball player (but not a top player). He was justifying club to me by saying if his kid can get a college scholarship, it's all worth it. I told him that only 10% of high school players (many who play club) get a scholarship - and scholarship is often only 1/3 of tuition. Whereas a high percentage of top students get a full ride academic scholarship and there's little to no cost to the parents for having their kids focus on school first. Then, of course, he came up with a gem that sums up the feeling I get through all the parents trying to relive their failed chance at glory through their kids - "Yeah, but how fun is it to watch your kid ace a chemistry exam? Watching him play and win these games is great for him and us".

You have no idea how many times we rehash this with parents. I was at Westview from 2003-2015, 11 playoff appearances, 2 state title games, 6 region titles. You know how many D1 FBS or FCS kids we have had? I will list them for you.

Adrian Conway RB - Weber State (Now also a world class cross fit athlete)
Shelly Smith OL - Colorado State (Houston and Miami in the NFL)
Kris Poindexter OL - NAU
Guy Reynolds OL - Idaho
Vince Keener DL - Idaho
Jordan Champion DB - North Dakota State
Jourdan Grandon DB - Arizona
RJ Smith RB - ASU (Walk on)
Chuks Amechi LB - NDSU and Georgia

That's it, 9 and 1 to the NFL in 13 seasons. Obviously a bunch more have gone to JC and some to lower level schools, (DII, DII and NAIA) but those places come with very limited scholarship dollars and outside of Football and Hoops that money pool is much smaller. Varsity roster size for most of those seasons was 50-60, so going with that average 1.3% of players had their college paid for in full by sports at a very successful program.

[dacman]

Real world numbers if you need some ammo for that argument -- I work at a NCAA Div I university with a total enrollment just shy of 20,000.


Number of kids we bring in every year on academic full rides: ~400
Number of kids we bring in every year on academic 1/2 tuition scholarships: ~1,500
Number of kids we bring in every year on any athletic scholarship: ~120
Number of kids we bring in every year on athletic full rides: ~35

[JonInMiddleGA]

I haven't really seen too much difference in athletic opportunity from making a low C student a high C student but if you've got a low/mid B student that can buckle down into a A student, I've repeatedly seen that open extra doors athletically.

Not recognizing that sort of thing is horribly short-sighted for parents of all but the most elite college athletes IMO.

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by Arles

Whereas a high percentage of top students get a full ride academic scholarship

YMMV. I mean, I guess it depends on the school and the situation. But yes, I have often wondered what the point of pouring money into extracurriculars or even private school gets you. Can you realistically make up what some of these schools cost? I mean, 10k for K-8?? That's a heck of a gamble.

Then, of course, he came up with a gem that sums up the feeling I get through all the parents trying to relive their failed chance at glory through their kids - "Yeah, but how fun is it to watch your kid ace a chemistry exam? Watching him play and win these games is great for him and us".

Maybe he doesn't, but I immensely enjoyed my son smashing the fuck out of the PSAT, SAT, and AP exams.

[RainMaker]

The smart ones that do well in school can get some crazy good scholarship offers. I went to school with Kyle Brandt who works for NFL Network now. He was a real good athlete who could have played at some D1 schools (mid-majors for instance). But he did just well enough in school that he turned it into a full ride at Princeton. Not sure he gets in if he isn't a great athlete. What's that save you? $120k?

[cuervo72]

Oh, well yeah. Combo academics and athletics for sure. I just don't know that full rides are being thrown around for one or the other.

[RainMaker]

Actually I don't know if it was an athletic scholarship. I think it was just financial aid. But he wouldn't have gotten in to the school if it wasn't for his ability to play football.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

Oh, well yeah. Combo academics and athletics for sure. I just don't know that full rides are being thrown around for one or the other.

Yeah, they're out there, academic particularly.

They're not always the best deals in the end, and they're not always just one scholly to cover it all, but combine a few (purely academic) & it's very doable to connect a full ride academically.

edit to add: Based on what I know, I'd say roughly 1/3rd to 1/2 of my son's graduating class headed off a full ride for year one.
His class of 83 graduates had over $4m (per year, not total) in individual offers, and that does not include blanket offers such as HOPE.

[cuervo72]

Yeah - admittedly we were not on the ball as far as private scholarships are concerned. We got $500/yr for National Merit, a couple of small 1yr HS team-specific awards, and that was it. $0 from FAFSA, $0 from Purdue. I think the major local ones he applied to had a need-based element in them, and especially compared to other local kids, that ain't us.

I've heard that where he is there are more opportunities for non-freshmen (in First Year Engineering you don't actually have a major, so you can't get anything departmental, for instance). I certainly hope there are.

Maryland offered $5k I think (and would have been in-state to begin with), VT like $7k (they actually upped it at one point), and A&M could have been even more with how they handle NM. But they weren't the places for him. Whatever, I figured I'd be working 'till I'm 75 anyway. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

Yeah - admittedly we were not on the ball as far as private scholarships are concerned.

My wife damned near made a (semi) career of it for about the last two years of his high school.

I can't begin to tell you how many applications were done, essays written, questionnaires filled out, interviews (phone/skype & in - person) were conducted

In the end (tries to count) I think he got 3 initially, has added another since, and that's not counting the stuff that was pretty much automatic so long as you knew to do the paperwork for them (like the Eagle Scout one).

The batting average wasn't great but when you add them all together, it was pretty darned meaningful.

----------
Sidebar to this kind of: we also helped his best friend land one at another school in another state (we ran across it in our research). That was an private organization membership thing that had more money than they had applicants, so they were thrilled to have someone to give it to.

[spleen1015]

There's more to club sports than just trying to get a college scholarship.

[tarcone]

Not sure if anyone saw this one. Iowa Barnstormers coach sentenced to 180 years.

Former elite Iowa youth basketball coach sentenced to 180 years for sexual exploitation of minors

Also, a guy on a another message board I visit had this story about one of the barnstormers coaches. This just happened.

He drove a 16 year old player to a tourney. Brought him home and left him at a bus stop 20 miles from home and said get yourself home. One of the guys on the board picked him up and drove him home. Caoch is a teahcer and coach at a local HS.

AAU is chaos