Michael Moore

Super Ugly · 03-23-2003, 09:46 PM

I don't know if anyone watched the Oscars ... What did people think of Michael Moore winning? After reading the debate on this board, I'd be interested in knowing what people thought of his speech, as well as the reaction to it. Personally, I think he's great, if a little self-righteous.

CamEdwards · 03-23-2003, 09:48 PM

I think he's an overblown windbag, and I had that opinion of him long before his rant from the Oscar stage.

Fritz · 03-23-2003, 09:50 PM

Didn't watch the Oscars, and so I didn't see his comments, but this guy needs to choke on a porkchop more than almost anyone I know of.

Tekneek · 03-23-2003, 09:51 PM

Well, is somebody going to sum up his speech? I can imagine he called Bush an idiot, said he stole the election, said we had no business going to war without the UN telling us to, said we need to get rid of all guns all over the world, need to pay more taxes... Hmmm. Did I leave anything out?

I didn't see it though, so I am just guessing based off of things I have read from him.

Ben E Lou · 03-23-2003, 09:51 PM

Is he the fat guy my wife was laughing at and called me into the room to see get booed???

CamEdwards · 03-23-2003, 09:55 PM

To sum up...

Director Moore Scolds Bush from Oscar Stage

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Reuters
Sunday, March 23, 2003; 10:36 PM

LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - Politics grabbed center stage at the Academy Awards on Sunday as the winner for best documentary, director Michael Moore, charged President Bush with waging a "fictitious war."

Wagging his finger from the stage as he was both applauded and booed by the assembled celebrities, Moore said, "We are against this war, Mr. Bush. Shame on you."

Moore won for "Bowling for Columbine," a provocative film on the roots of gun violence in America, whose title refers to the Colorado high school where two students massacred 13 people before killing themselves in 1999.

Moore, who received a standing ovation from the assembled celebrities, invited the other nominees for best documentary film to join him onstage in solidarity against the war against Iraq.

"We like nonfiction and we live in fictitious times. We live in a time where we have fictitious election results, that elect a fictitious president. We live in a time where we have a man sending us to war for fictitious reasons," Moore said.

Oscar host Steve Martin joked after Moore finished speaking that "the Teamsters are helping Mr. Moore into the trunk of his limo."

rexalllsc · 03-23-2003, 09:56 PM

Nice to hear him get booed off stage. hahaha

stkelly52 · 03-23-2003, 09:59 PM

THe guy is an ignorant fool who lives in his own ficticious world.

Tekneek · 03-23-2003, 10:00 PM

I just knew he would have to bring up the election. Sensible people have given up that ghost already, but Michael Moore just can't get over it. He thinks he knows everything.

Super Ugly · 03-23-2003, 10:01 PM

I dunno, it was good to see that the Hollywood elite doesn't just blindly hop on EVERY bandwaggon that comes along. I saw his movie, I liked it, and I agree with a lot of what he has to say. I understand that people want to rally around their President, but let's not forget the controversy that surrounded his election. Even if you don't agree with him, maybe it'd be good to check out that book he wrote.

Tekneek · 03-23-2003, 10:18 PM

Michael Moore rewrites history, and has in everything he has ever done. He is a showman, and an author, but he fudges on some details when it makes his presentation work a little better. He does live, work, and sleep in a ficticious version of the real world, although only slightly off from the real non-fiction world.

While he probably makes you think from time to time, you can't rely on him as a source of real information. All of his claims *must* be checked out by at least two or three sources, and often he is wrong or is distorting the real truth. I guess it works though, so good for him. He gets close enough to the truth that most people don't ride him too hard for it.

MrBug708 · 03-23-2003, 10:30 PM

Quote:

I dunno, it was good to see that the Hollywood elite doesn't just blindly hop on EVERY bandwaggon that comes along.

You mean like coming out against the war? Ya, I'd hate to see Celebs talk about how they aren't in favor of the war

TroyF · 03-23-2003, 10:30 PM

I used to really like Michael Moore. Roger & Me and his TV show were both well done and funny. He used to rip on EVERY facet of corporate and political corruption.

Somewhere along the way, he stopped being critical of everyone and decided Republicans were the only ones who ever made mistakes. He then started making fatal flaws that he continues to make to this day. . . as Tekneek said above, he now stretches the truth and actually INVENTS the truth so it fits his needs.

His comments directly after 9/11 are an example. (you can search on Snopes.com and find his comments along with the real truth)

By lying and only looking for corruption in one side of the government, he lost all credibility as an "expert" in anything. He may as well be paid by the Democratic party for his lobbying.

I still read some of his works (borrowed, not purchased) because I believe both sides of an arguement need to be looked at. As far as taking anything he says seriously, he's lost that right IMO.

TroyF

Fritz · 03-23-2003, 10:35 PM

TroyF's snopes ref:

http://www.snopes.com/rumors/flight.htm

rexalllsc · 03-23-2003, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tekneek
Michael Moore rewrites history, and has in everything he has ever done. He is a showman, and an author, but he fudges on some details when it makes his presentation work a little better. He does live, work, and sleep in a ficticious version of the real world, although only slightly off from the real non-fiction world.

While he probably makes you think from time to time, you can't rely on him as a source of real information. All of his claims *must* be checked out by at least two or three sources, and often he is wrong or is distorting the real truth. I guess it works though, so good for him. He gets close enough to the truth that most people don't ride him too hard for it.

Orin Hatch to Moore: "Many of the things you present as 'fact' in your movie are false"

Moore: "How can comedy be wrong?"

Idiot.

Super Ugly · 03-23-2003, 10:40 PM

True, he is a little obsessed with bringing down the Bush Empire. But he isn't exactly sparing when it comes to the Democrats. He does seem to have a hard on for Ralph Nader, though, despite the fact that he was dissed by the dude not long after that election.

TroyF · 03-23-2003, 10:48 PM

Super Ugly,

Really? He isn't sparing with the democrats? Exactly what has he done that is critical of the democrats in the past 10 years? Has he ever outright lied about democrats doing horrific things to the American people?

Sorry, I'll say it again, your boy is nothing more than a lobbyist for the democratic party. Think of him as a Rush Limbaugh for the democrats. When you are a "serious" journalist and documentary maker, you don't lie to prove your point. When you do, you lose all credibility. His left him a long time ago. I find it amazing that he's even taken seriously by anyone now.

His Oscar is NOT surprising. There isn't any question which way Hollywood leans. Just figure out what the pulse of America is, and turn the other way.

TroyF

TroyF · 03-23-2003, 10:48 PM

DOLA,

Thanks for the link Fritz.

TroyF

Super Ugly · 03-23-2003, 10:53 PM

"Really? He isn't sparing with the democrats? Exactly what has he done that is critical of the democrats in the past 10 years? Has he ever outright lied about democrats doing horrific things to the American people?"

If you can bear it, *borrow* a copy of 'Stupid White Men' and you'll see what I mean. That's probably the first time I ever saw Bill Clinton referred to as a war criminal (if I've got that right). And for the record, he is not my 'boy'. I just think that as a comedian he's funny, and that his shows tend to be a whole lot frsher than 90% of the crap that's out there. Like my colleague Tekneek says, you can't rely on him as a reliable source of information - not him, nor anyone else out there. Anyone who does so deserves everything they get, regardless of their political slant.

sabotai · 03-23-2003, 11:16 PM

I agree (kind of) with TroyF. I used to love his show TV Nation. It was a cool show. (Never saw Roger and Me). But not reading his newest book, I wouldn't know what he said about Clinton. But he is funny, you have to give him that. For some reason, liberals are always so much funnier in their jokes about republicans than repubs are toward liberals. Just ym observation.

mrskippy · 03-23-2003, 11:17 PM

Michael Moore is an ignorant ass. I hope he realizes how ignorant his comments were. This war is more than "fictitious" and is indeed very real.

He is complaining about an election that happened 2 1/2 years ago. Bush won fair and square, whether he likes it or not. My take on those people in Florida is this -- check your ballot next time. I always, always, always double check my ballot that I marked it right and voted for who I wanted to. My guess is most just wrote it off and this time it caught up to them.

Michael Moore needs to get a grip. He shouldn't be shocked by the audience reaction. His comments were insensitive. While he may think everyone in Hollywood is a Democrat and an activist ... many of them are in support of our troops.

I also was thinking ... this war also in a little way ... protects Hollywood. Iraq censors American movies.

For the most part tonight's speeches were in good taste.

rexalllsc · 03-23-2003, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Super Ugly
True, he is a little obsessed with bringing down the Bush Empire. But he isn't exactly sparing when it comes to the Democrats. He does seem to have a hard on for Ralph Nader, though, despite the fact that he was dissed by the dude not long after that election.

What happened?

rexalllsc · 03-23-2003, 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Super Ugly
"Really? He isn't sparing with the democrats? Exactly what has he done that is critical of the democrats in the past 10 years? Has he ever outright lied about democrats doing horrific things to the American people?"

If you can bear it, *borrow* a copy of 'Stupid White Men' and you'll see what I mean. That's probably the first time I ever saw Bill Clinton referred to as a war criminal (if I've got that right). And for the record, he is not my 'boy'. I just think that as a comedian he's funny, and that his shows tend to be a whole lot frsher than 90% of the crap that's out there. Like my colleague Tekneek says, you can't rely on him as a reliable source of information - not him, nor anyone else out there. Anyone who does so deserves everything they get, regardless of their political slant.

Like you said: "...you can't rely on him as a reliable source of information..."

Yet, he tries to present things as fact, which is where the problem lies.

sabotai · 03-23-2003, 11:25 PM

"He is complaining about an election that happened 2 1/2 years ago. "

Yeah, just like republicans can't stop complaining about a sexual encounter Clinton had 7 years age!

(Sorry, but I find it funny how people say 'just get over it' about an election that happened 2 1/2 years ago when they can't stop talking about Clinton which happened an much longer time ago. Not attacking you specifically, mrskippy, just making a general observation.)

mrskippy · 03-23-2003, 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sabotai

Yeah, just like republicans can't stop complaining about a sexual encounter Clinton had 7 years age!

I'm a Republican, but I have no complaints about Bill Clinton's sexual encounters. He was a great leader for eight years. Why so many people made an issue with his sex life is beyond me?

The problem I have with the election complaints are that these voters could have checked their ballot and made sure they voted correctly. It takes 30 seconds to double check and there's nothing wrong with filling out a corrected ballot. Oh and the fact that many people don't vote to begin with.

Bush is the President and that's that. My belief is that you should
respect the President. Sadly, it's also party politics. Grrr!!!

sabotai · 03-24-2003, 12:02 AM

According to many peopel in Florida, they did just that. They were told to right on the ballot who they were voting for. The problem is, of course, they might have been ignore and the optical machines don't pick up writing.

But I agree, it is water under the bridge and everyone should just move on. If they're really that pissed, vote in the next election and try to get Bush out of there,

qmpz · 03-24-2003, 02:02 AM

The election issue is/was not just poor ballot design...

http://www.uaw.org/solidarity/01/0501/front02.html
http://www.usccr.gov/pubs/vote2000/report/trans.htm

And I for one do not think the fact that the loss of the right to vote should be something we just "get over", and I'm sure anyone who had that right denied would feel the same way. But, having said that, there certainly are more pressing issues than an election that nobody is in any position to 'remedy'.

andy m · 03-24-2003, 02:02 AM

moore was fantastic. it's good to see him get up people's noses, he is obviously hitting too close to home for a lot of people and is making them squirm. i am glad he took a huge opportunity to say what a lot of people believe but are scared to say because they have been beaten down under the relentless tide of pro-war bullshit.

moore owns you.

stkelly52 · 03-24-2003, 02:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mrskippy
I hope Moore and ALL anti-war protestors get killed in the next terrorist attack.

This comment is stupid and sickening. To wish death on others because they don't agree with your opinions is flat out barbaric. While I disagree with protester and igornant fools like Moore, your remarks are far worse than theirs.

mrskippy · 03-24-2003, 02:49 AM

Terrorists, including Saddam, don't know what diplomacy is. And if you think that diplomacy will work ... well ... I wouldn't want to find out what happens when it fails.

TroyF · 03-24-2003, 02:49 AM

Andy M,

Moore is making who squirm? The only people he's making squirm are people unfamiliar with his agenda. Period. I have a close friend who is adamently against the war in Iraq. He's always been one of the most open minded people I know. When we discuss the war, he can occasionaly make me squirm a bit (and vice verse). Michael Moore? Liars don't make me squirm. Neither do people with an axe to grind. He has an agenda, he has the stage in which to get that agenda out. Good for him.

As for all the pro war BS, he has very little of that to deal with in Hollywood. The rest of the nation (anywhere from 70-75% depending on the polls you read) believe this war needs to be fought.

Moore doesn't own anyone. I can run off a list of anti war activists whose speeches I'd watch for the intellectual value, if for no other reason. Moore's value is only in looking at how the closed minded feel. Nothing more, nothing less.

TroyF

mrskippy · 03-24-2003, 02:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by stkelly52
This comment is stupid and sickening. To wish death on others because they don't agree with your opinions is flat out barbaric. While I disagree with protester and igornant fools like Moore, your remarks are far worse than theirs.

I've deleted my insensitive comments. I don't really mean that. Do I dislike people like Michael Moore and anti-war protestors? Yeah. Do I think they should shut-up? Yeah. Do I think they need to support our country, our troops, and our leaders? Yeah.

I just believe that these anti-war protestors are seriously misguided.

Tarkus · 03-24-2003, 03:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mrskippy
I'm a Republican, but I have no complaints about Bill Clinton's sexual encounters. He was a great leader for eight years. Why so many people made an issue with his sex life is beyond me?

Probably because they've never been blown in the oval room of the White House.

Tarkus

Havok · 03-24-2003, 04:50 AM

I hate that son of a bitch

Iceberg · 03-24-2003, 05:14 AM

Don't know if anyone actually saw bowling for columbine but it sucked. It was poorly thrown together and failed to make a point except that America is a horrible, violent nation. I have no idea about any of the other documentaries it was up against but i have to believe that moore won only because the rest of hollywood loves his politics.

Maple Leafs · 03-24-2003, 06:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by andy m
i am glad he took a huge opportunity to say what a lot of people believe but are scared to say because they have been beaten down under the relentless tide of pro-war bullshit.

Yes, yes. Everyone secretly agrees with you, you're just the only one brave enough to say it. Thanks for letting us know.

JonInMiddleGA · 03-24-2003, 06:57 AM

I believe Moore is an idiotic ass, same as I did before the show last night.

User #2735 · 03-24-2003, 07:36 AM

Quoted from another board:

Quote:

Anyone who thinks that Bowling for Columbine:

a) deserved to win for "documentary."

b) was an breathtakingly "honest" film.

c) shows what America is "really like!"

d) Has any amount of truth in its story.

should read this:
http://www.hardylaw.net/Truth_About_Bowling.html and then try and argue that.

Michael Moore is a fat bloated retard who damages the cause of good, honest liberals around the globe every time he opens his mouth to spew more bullshit. His Goebbels level propaganda should be condemned by every free-thinking person rather than rewarded. He brings shame back into political discourse.

I agree 100%

KWhit · 03-24-2003, 08:03 AM

He was out of line. Period. It was painful to watch. But to those who claim that all Hollywood leans left, listen to him get booed off the stage. They really gave him hell.

Hammer755 · 03-24-2003, 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by KWhit
He was out of line. Period. It was painful to watch. But to those who claim that all Hollywood leans left, listen to him get booed off the stage. They really gave him hell.

From my understanding, it wasn't the Hollywood folks who booed, but the people seated up in the balconies, ie the 'little people' who got tickets to the event. I may be wrong, however.

Karim · 03-24-2003, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by TroyF
Somewhere along the way, he stopped being critical of everyone and decided Republicans were the only ones who ever made mistakes.

Unfortunately, this seems to be typical of Hollywood in general, not just Moore. For example, "The Candidate" and "The Contender" make Republicans out to be old, slobbering, backward, and ignorant. Yet, the movies are trumpetted in reviews as either unbiased or demonstrating the "courage" of Hollywood in taking a stand.

Fritz · 03-24-2003, 08:13 AM

There was a very agressive effort by republican aligned groups aimed at stealing the liberal/left platform of the awards cerimony.

Tekneek · 03-24-2003, 08:24 AM

Right. People wouldn't boo unless it was some attempt by Republicans to grab control of the awards ceremony. You know, it gets old after a while when you are expected to believe that every single thing that happens in this country is driven by some conspiracy from either "the Democrats" or "the Republicans."

I read some of those ballots in Florida, at least the ones that were released to the media as examples of what was going on. All of the ones I saw were ruined ballots. People did things that I learned in school that you were not supposed to do. People did things that even the ballot itself told them not to do. So, I find it hard to believe that those idiots disregarded all of this because of some other sinister advice being given out by some Bush operative standing next to them attempting to cook the entire election. "Loss of the right to vote." Hah. If you get your discarded because you do it wrong and submit it, rather than asking for it to be trashed and get a new one, you willingly chose to give up that chance to vote. Kind of hard to feel bad for people who obviously didn't want their votes to count anyway.

JPhillips · 03-24-2003, 09:49 AM

Tekneek: While I don't think the ballots were a conspiracy, I am pissed that the US can't find an easy, accurate method of counting votes. When I read that Florida routinely throws away up to two percent of votes cast due to problems I was livid. Why the hell do we still have a voting system with 2% error?

Given the error rate, there was no possible way of finding the real winner of the election. Eventually it had to come down to the Supreme Court or a House vote. The real crime here was the ridiculous state of voting in the US and the blind eye that Congress has given it.

Butter · 03-24-2003, 09:53 AM

I am a Democrat, but Gore lost the election because he couldn't even get Tennessee, West Virginia or New Hampshire to fall for him. All 3 should have been EASY wins. The Floridians who were confused by the ballot are all idiots anyway, and I feel no remorse for what happened. Those who called for a re-vote in that situation were extremely short-sighted.

As for Michael Moore, I loved Roger & Me and TV Nation, but can barely stand to look at the guy now... he just grates, and his campaigns of mis-information are ridiculous attempts at self-promotion, mostly. Just like Rush Limbaugh's.

Fritz · 03-24-2003, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tekneek
Right. People wouldn't boo unless it was some attempt by Republicans to grab control of the awards ceremony. You know, it gets old after a while when you are expected to believe that every single thing that happens in this country is driven by some conspiracy from either "the Democrats" or "the Republicans."

There was a "conspiracy" by a republican aligned organization (not the Republican Party.) Ken Hamblin had an organizer on his radio show several days before the event.

Tekneek · 03-24-2003, 10:00 AM

And the other organizations that normally "run" the awards ceremony are a "conspiracy" from Democrats. Blah blah blah. Heard it all before. People do things because they want to, not because they are running covert ops for some faction of a political party.

GrantDawg · 03-24-2003, 10:02 AM

He is a creator of Left-wing propaganda. Of course he would win the Oscar.

Marmel · 03-24-2003, 10:21 AM

Wait until NoMyths gets here. All of you M. Moore bashers are going to get an earful from him.

Fritz · 03-24-2003, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Marmel
Wait until NoMyths gets here. All of you M. Moore bashers are going to get an earful from him.

Been waiting....

03-23-2003, 09:50 PM	#3
Fritz Lethargic Hooligan Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: hello kitty found my wallet at a big tent revival and returned it with all the cash missing	Didn't watch the Oscars, and so I didn't see his comments, but this guy needs to choke on a porkchop more than almost anyone I know of. __________________ donkey, donkey, walk a little faster

03-23-2003, 09:51 PM	#5
Ben E Lou Morgado's Favorite Forum Fascist Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Greensboro, NC	Is he the fat guy my wife was laughing at and called me into the room to see get booed??? __________________ The media don't understand the kinds of problems and pressures 54 million come wit'!

03-23-2003, 09:55 PM	#6
CamEdwards Stadium Announcer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Burke, VA	To sum up... Director Moore Scolds Bush from Oscar Stage E-Mail This Article Printer-Friendly Version Subscribe to The Post Reuters Sunday, March 23, 2003; 10:36 PM LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - Politics grabbed center stage at the Academy Awards on Sunday as the winner for best documentary, director Michael Moore, charged President Bush with waging a "fictitious war." Wagging his finger from the stage as he was both applauded and booed by the assembled celebrities, Moore said, "We are against this war, Mr. Bush. Shame on you." Moore won for "Bowling for Columbine," a provocative film on the roots of gun violence in America, whose title refers to the Colorado high school where two students massacred 13 people before killing themselves in 1999. Moore, who received a standing ovation from the assembled celebrities, invited the other nominees for best documentary film to join him onstage in solidarity against the war against Iraq. "We like nonfiction and we live in fictitious times. We live in a time where we have fictitious election results, that elect a fictitious president. We live in a time where we have a man sending us to war for fictitious reasons," Moore said. Oscar host Steve Martin joked after Moore finished speaking that "the Teamsters are helping Mr. Moore into the trunk of his limo." __________________ I don't want the world. I just want your half.

03-23-2003, 09:59 PM	#8
stkelly52 College Benchwarmer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Seattle WA	THe guy is an ignorant fool who lives in his own ficticious world. __________________ Check out an undrafted free agent's attempt to make the Hall of Fame: Running to the Hall Now nominated for a Golden Scribe!

03-23-2003, 10:35 PM	#14
Fritz Lethargic Hooligan Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: hello kitty found my wallet at a big tent revival and returned it with all the cash missing	TroyF's snopes ref: http://www.snopes.com/rumors/flight.htm __________________ donkey, donkey, walk a little faster

03-23-2003, 09:48 PM	#2
CamEdwards Stadium Announcer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Burke, VA	I think he's an overblown windbag, and I had that opinion of him long before his rant from the Oscar stage. __________________ I don't want the world. I just want your half.

03-23-2003, 09:51 PM	#4
Tekneek Pro Rookie Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: USA	Well, is somebody going to sum up his speech? I can imagine he called Bush an idiot, said he stole the election, said we had no business going to war without the UN telling us to, said we need to get rid of all guns all over the world, need to pay more taxes... Hmmm. Did I leave anything out? I didn't see it though, so I am just guessing based off of things I have read from him.

03-23-2003, 09:56 PM	#7
rexalllsc Banned Join Date: Feb 2003	Nice to hear him get booed off stage. hahaha

03-23-2003, 10:00 PM	#9
Tekneek Pro Rookie Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: USA	I just knew he would have to bring up the election. Sensible people have given up that ghost already, but Michael Moore just can't get over it. He thinks he knows everything.

03-23-2003, 10:01 PM	#10
Super Ugly High School JV Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Look behind you	I dunno, it was good to see that the Hollywood elite doesn't just blindly hop on EVERY bandwaggon that comes along. I saw his movie, I liked it, and I agree with a lot of what he has to say. I understand that people want to rally around their President, but let's not forget the controversy that surrounded his election. Even if you don't agree with him, maybe it'd be good to check out that book he wrote.

03-23-2003, 10:18 PM	#11
Tekneek Pro Rookie Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: USA	Michael Moore rewrites history, and has in everything he has ever done. He is a showman, and an author, but he fudges on some details when it makes his presentation work a little better. He does live, work, and sleep in a ficticious version of the real world, although only slightly off from the real non-fiction world. While he probably makes you think from time to time, you can't rely on him as a source of real information. All of his claims must be checked out by at least two or three sources, and often he is wrong or is distorting the real truth. I guess it works though, so good for him. He gets close enough to the truth that most people don't ride him too hard for it.

03-23-2003, 10:30 PM	#13
TroyF Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000	I used to really like Michael Moore. Roger & Me and his TV show were both well done and funny. He used to rip on EVERY facet of corporate and political corruption. Somewhere along the way, he stopped being critical of everyone and decided Republicans were the only ones who ever made mistakes. He then started making fatal flaws that he continues to make to this day. . . as Tekneek said above, he now stretches the truth and actually INVENTS the truth so it fits his needs. His comments directly after 9/11 are an example. (you can search on Snopes.com and find his comments along with the real truth) By lying and only looking for corruption in one side of the government, he lost all credibility as an "expert" in anything. He may as well be paid by the Democratic party for his lobbying. I still read some of his works (borrowed, not purchased) because I believe both sides of an arguement need to be looked at. As far as taking anything he says seriously, he's lost that right IMO. TroyF

03-23-2003, 10:40 PM	#16
Super Ugly High School JV Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Look behind you	True, he is a little obsessed with bringing down the Bush Empire. But he isn't exactly sparing when it comes to the Democrats. He does seem to have a hard on for Ralph Nader, though, despite the fact that he was dissed by the dude not long after that election.

03-23-2003, 10:48 PM	#17
TroyF Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000	Super Ugly, Really? He isn't sparing with the democrats? Exactly what has he done that is critical of the democrats in the past 10 years? Has he ever outright lied about democrats doing horrific things to the American people? Sorry, I'll say it again, your boy is nothing more than a lobbyist for the democratic party. Think of him as a Rush Limbaugh for the democrats. When you are a "serious" journalist and documentary maker, you don't lie to prove your point. When you do, you lose all credibility. His left him a long time ago. I find it amazing that he's even taken seriously by anyone now. His Oscar is NOT surprising. There isn't any question which way Hollywood leans. Just figure out what the pulse of America is, and turn the other way. TroyF

03-23-2003, 10:48 PM	#18
TroyF Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000	DOLA, Thanks for the link Fritz. TroyF

03-23-2003, 10:53 PM	#19
Super Ugly High School JV Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Look behind you	"Really? He isn't sparing with the democrats? Exactly what has he done that is critical of the democrats in the past 10 years? Has he ever outright lied about democrats doing horrific things to the American people?" If you can bear it, borrow a copy of 'Stupid White Men' and you'll see what I mean. That's probably the first time I ever saw Bill Clinton referred to as a war criminal (if I've got that right). And for the record, he is not my 'boy'. I just think that as a comedian he's funny, and that his shows tend to be a whole lot frsher than 90% of the crap that's out there. Like my colleague Tekneek says, you can't rely on him as a reliable source of information - not him, nor anyone else out there. Anyone who does so deserves everything they get, regardless of their political slant.

03-23-2003, 11:16 PM	#20
sabotai General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: The Satellite of Love	I agree (kind of) with TroyF. I used to love his show TV Nation. It was a cool show. (Never saw Roger and Me). But not reading his newest book, I wouldn't know what he said about Clinton. But he is funny, you have to give him that. For some reason, liberals are always so much funnier in their jokes about republicans than repubs are toward liberals. Just ym observation.

03-23-2003, 11:17 PM	#21
mrskippy Banned Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: California	Michael Moore is an ignorant ass. I hope he realizes how ignorant his comments were. This war is more than "fictitious" and is indeed very real. He is complaining about an election that happened 2 1/2 years ago. Bush won fair and square, whether he likes it or not. My take on those people in Florida is this -- check your ballot next time. I always, always, always double check my ballot that I marked it right and voted for who I wanted to. My guess is most just wrote it off and this time it caught up to them. Michael Moore needs to get a grip. He shouldn't be shocked by the audience reaction. His comments were insensitive. While he may think everyone in Hollywood is a Democrat and an activist ... many of them are in support of our troops. I also was thinking ... this war also in a little way ... protects Hollywood. Iraq censors American movies. For the most part tonight's speeches were in good taste.

03-23-2003, 11:25 PM	#24
sabotai General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: The Satellite of Love	"He is complaining about an election that happened 2 1/2 years ago. " Yeah, just like republicans can't stop complaining about a sexual encounter Clinton had 7 years age! (Sorry, but I find it funny how people say 'just get over it' about an election that happened 2 1/2 years ago when they can't stop talking about Clinton which happened an much longer time ago. Not attacking you specifically, mrskippy, just making a general observation.)

03-24-2003, 12:02 AM	#26
sabotai General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: The Satellite of Love	According to many peopel in Florida, they did just that. They were told to right on the ballot who they were voting for. The problem is, of course, they might have been ignore and the optical machines don't pick up writing. But I agree, it is water under the bridge and everyone should just move on. If they're really that pissed, vote in the next election and try to get Bush out of there,

03-24-2003, 02:02 AM	#27
qmpz n00b Join Date: Feb 2003	The election issue is/was not just poor ballot design... http://www.uaw.org/solidarity/01/0501/front02.html http://www.usccr.gov/pubs/vote2000/report/trans.htm And I for one do not think the fact that the loss of the right to vote should be something we just "get over", and I'm sure anyone who had that right denied would feel the same way. But, having said that, there certainly are more pressing issues than an election that nobody is in any position to 'remedy'.

03-24-2003, 02:02 AM	#28
andy m High School Varsity Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: norwich, UK	moore was fantastic. it's good to see him get up people's noses, he is obviously hitting too close to home for a lot of people and is making them squirm. i am glad he took a huge opportunity to say what a lot of people believe but are scared to say because they have been beaten down under the relentless tide of pro-war bullshit. moore owns you. __________________ mostly harmless FOFL 2009 champs - Norwich Quagmire

03-24-2003, 02:49 AM	#30
mrskippy Banned Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: California	Terrorists, including Saddam, don't know what diplomacy is. And if you think that diplomacy will work ... well ... I wouldn't want to find out what happens when it fails. Last edited by mrskippy : 03-24-2003 at 02:53 AM.

03-24-2003, 04:50 AM	#34
Havok College Starter Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Florida	I hate that son of a bitch __________________ Maniacal Misfitz - We're better than you and we know it!

03-24-2003, 05:14 AM	#35
Iceberg H.S. Freshman Team Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Kensington, MD	Don't know if anyone actually saw bowling for columbine but it sucked. It was poorly thrown together and failed to make a point except that America is a horrible, violent nation. I have no idea about any of the other documentaries it was up against but i have to believe that moore won only because the rest of hollywood loves his politics.

03-24-2003, 06:57 AM	#37
JonInMiddleGA Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA	I believe Moore is an idiotic ass, same as I did before the show last night. __________________ "I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis

03-24-2003, 08:03 AM	#39
KWhit Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Conyers GA	He was out of line. Period. It was painful to watch. But to those who claim that all Hollywood leans left, listen to him get booed off the stage. They really gave him hell.

03-24-2003, 08:13 AM	#42
Fritz Lethargic Hooligan Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: hello kitty found my wallet at a big tent revival and returned it with all the cash missing	There was a very agressive effort by republican aligned groups aimed at stealing the liberal/left platform of the awards cerimony. __________________ donkey, donkey, walk a little faster

03-24-2003, 08:24 AM	#43
Tekneek Pro Rookie Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: USA	Right. People wouldn't boo unless it was some attempt by Republicans to grab control of the awards ceremony. You know, it gets old after a while when you are expected to believe that every single thing that happens in this country is driven by some conspiracy from either "the Democrats" or "the Republicans." I read some of those ballots in Florida, at least the ones that were released to the media as examples of what was going on. All of the ones I saw were ruined ballots. People did things that I learned in school that you were not supposed to do. People did things that even the ballot itself told them not to do. So, I find it hard to believe that those idiots disregarded all of this because of some other sinister advice being given out by some Bush operative standing next to them attempting to cook the entire election. "Loss of the right to vote." Hah. If you get your discarded because you do it wrong and submit it, rather than asking for it to be trashed and get a new one, you willingly chose to give up that chance to vote. Kind of hard to feel bad for people who obviously didn't want their votes to count anyway.

03-24-2003, 09:49 AM	#44
JPhillips Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Newburgh, NY	Tekneek: While I don't think the ballots were a conspiracy, I am pissed that the US can't find an easy, accurate method of counting votes. When I read that Florida routinely throws away up to two percent of votes cast due to problems I was livid. Why the hell do we still have a voting system with 2% error? Given the error rate, there was no possible way of finding the real winner of the election. Eventually it had to come down to the Supreme Court or a House vote. The real crime here was the ridiculous state of voting in the US and the blind eye that Congress has given it. __________________ To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now.. - Mr. Rogers

03-24-2003, 09:53 AM	#45
Butter Coordinator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Dayton, OH	I am a Democrat, but Gore lost the election because he couldn't even get Tennessee, West Virginia or New Hampshire to fall for him. All 3 should have been EASY wins. The Floridians who were confused by the ballot are all idiots anyway, and I feel no remorse for what happened. Those who called for a re-vote in that situation were extremely short-sighted. As for Michael Moore, I loved Roger & Me and TV Nation, but can barely stand to look at the guy now... he just grates, and his campaigns of mis-information are ridiculous attempts at self-promotion, mostly. Just like Rush Limbaugh's. __________________ My listening habits

03-24-2003, 10:00 AM	#47
Tekneek Pro Rookie Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: USA	And the other organizations that normally "run" the awards ceremony are a "conspiracy" from Democrats. Blah blah blah. Heard it all before. People do things because they want to, not because they are running covert ops for some faction of a political party.

03-24-2003, 10:02 AM	#48
GrantDawg World Champion Mis-speller Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Covington, Ga.	He is a creator of Left-wing propaganda. Of course he would win the Oscar.

03-24-2003, 10:21 AM	#49
Marmel Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Manchester, CT	Wait until NoMyths gets here. All of you M. Moore bashers are going to get an earful from him. __________________ 81-78 Cincinnati basketball writer P. Daugherty, "Connor Barwin playing several minutes against Syracuse is like kids with slingshots taking down Caesar's legions."

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