Werewolf LXXVI - The Werewolf Draft! Game over, see last pages for details

[hoopsguy]

Yeah, there were a number of close deadline calls where just one vote switch would have made a huge difference. The wolves always ended up on the right side of those.

[Danny]

I actually think the mechanics were potentially tough on the wolves. The only being able to kill someone who voted for you rule would pretty much eliminate the wolves from contention if their cunning wolf gets caught early. we were fortunate not to have to worry about that scenario.

[st.cronin]

The way the votes went, it would have hurt you had the cunning wolf been busted late, too. I like that rule, but I may have to tweak it some - something like "each night the wolves don't use the cunning, the following day they can add one kill pair (ie Danny is now allowed to kill RendeR)." I like that rule, and hope other gms adopt an adapted version of it.

[Passacaglia]

So, now that the game is over, can people clue me in as to what was "off" about me? I still don't get it.

[Passacaglia]

And great game to the wolves, especially EagleFan. Reading along, even knowing who the wolves were, my head was spinning.

[oliegirl]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

So, now that the game is over, can people clue me in as to what was "off" about me? I still don't get it.

Your name is Pass...isn't that enough???

I was actually never suspicious of you this game, I think that is a first!

[EagleFan]

I finally won a game!!!

Wolves, did you figure me out before Schmidty outed me?

I tried to send subtle clues:

Immediately voting Mrs Schmidty day one with a lame reason was an attempt to let you know that I knew who you were.

I called out mccollins a few times early bet never made a run at him until later (that was an attempt to earn trust with the vilagers, I tried to mention going after villagers after him a few times to let that be known, I even made sure to go hard after oliegirl to induce the olierage and didn;t want to get into too much of a fight with mccollins but he kept pushing back. I even tried to give him an out in one post but he didn't seem to want to stop going at me.

The hit and run vote on CR with the no idea why tag was also an attempt to let you know I knew who you were, the vote I immediately took off him.

I believe that CR at least had me pegged earlier when he voted Danny after I begged to find out who the brutal was. I had hoped to be where we were going before the deadline so I could do a last minute switch to Danny but I had the blackberry fiasco and then I lost reception.

My goal was to try to plant a few ideas in people's minds and see if they took hold but never be a deciding vote on a villager. I tried to do some late pleading for some of those lynches to at least make it looks like I was trying to save a villager.

My thought on the oliegirl lynch is that it may draw attention on me but a lynch of me would still help the numbers for the wolves a bit.

After I was outed I just wanted to make enough of a stir as possible and include enough potentially legitimate arguements to how Schmidty could be faking.

Then mccollins had to call out my blunder by mentioning the conversion idea (which was an honest mistake but bad timing when I was using Schmidty's mistake about knowing roles against him).


Did you suspect clap by that point? My attempted outing of him was basically me throing my hands up in the air, waving them around and screaming I am the cultist.

[EagleFan]

Sorry oliegirl, I had to keep after you a bit when I saw that others were starting to think you were a wolf. I know you probably wanted to strangle me a few times.

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

So, now that the game is over, can people clue me in as to what was "off" about me? I still don't get it.

I have no idea, but I liked when people started saying that since you weren't a wolf.

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by Mrs. Schmidty

umm....what?

Sorry, typing on the blackberry and trying to post that time. I had very lkitle time and hate typing on that thing.

[mccollins]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

So, now that the game is over, can people clue me in as to what was "off" about me? I still don't get it.

You were kind of quiet the first day, but other than that your play was just like normal.

[mccollins]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

And great game to the wolves, especially EagleFan. Reading along, even knowing who the wolves were, my head was spinning.

I think I still want to kill him. After we finally found out he was the cultist (the night after Schmidty scanned him - we had it down to those two), I still wasn't always sure what he was doing. We figured he was just sure I was the brutal.

[mccollins]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

Wolves, did you figure me out before Schmidty outed me?

No. And we half believed Schmidty was the cultist and just setting up a play to get you lynched.

We had actually written you off as the cultist because you came after me so hard!

[Telle]

Originally Posted by Poli

I didn't understand the role of Masons outside of the 'yeah! we're tied together, we know we're good guys' stuff. I figured, hey why not make the married couple that.

Do you have any idea how frustrating it is to be a mason WITHOUT pm rights with the person you're married to??

[mccollins]

Originally Posted by Telle

Do you have any idea how frustrating it is to be a mason WITHOUT pm rights with the person you're married to??

hahaha yeah, someone made a joke (I can't remember if it was in the thread or in my PMs) about Lathum and Saldana being the masons and hanging out and not being able to say anything haha.

[Lathum]

I thought Poli drafed fine.

I echo what Cronin said, I usualy draw heat so am rarely night killed. As for my early reveal I felt the tide turning and I have an uncanny ability to know when I won't be able to turn it around. I felt this was one of those times, it's not like people need a great reason to vote on day 1.

I thought the way KWhit ran with his theory was crazy. The odds of Poli thinking to do that an KWhit calling him out on it are through the roof.

I also think DT put himself in the line of fire unneccesaraly. He has played enough games with me to know I'll go after him like a rabid pitbull. Especialy the way he jumped on KWhits theory so fast.

[oliegirl]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

Sorry oliegirl, I had to keep after you a bit when I saw that others were starting to think you were a wolf. I know you probably wanted to strangle me a few times.

A few times? More than a few times - but it's all good. After I left and I knew who the wolves were it was SO frustrating b/c I'd already called out you and McCollins, and had suspicion on Mrs S as well as Chief (though I don't think I'd really voiced that).

It was an interesting game, I don't think I've ever seen a blowout like that in WW before...it was crazy that no matter what the villagers just couldn't come together to vote off a wolf.

[The Jackal]

Wish I'd been involved in this. Run another one sometime.

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I thought the way KWhit ran with his theory was crazy. The odds of Poli thinking to do that an KWhit calling him out on it are through the roof.

Bah. I think in a game where the way to win is by guessing who is what role it should be obvious to play into that. If you have an opportunity to draft a certain way to ensure that a single player is made a wolf you put the person most associated with being a wolf in that role. It was a way to have the villager team choose who to make a wolf - and the clear choice for that is you. And I think it was a solid strategy.

But clearly I'm the only one.

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by mccollins

No. And we half believed Schmidty was the cultist and just setting up a play to get you lynched.

We had actually written you off as the cultist because you came after me so hard!

I thought that I saw one of your fellow wolves vote you so I thought that meant you were the brutal. After the Schmidty thing I was no longer sure but figured it woud look too odd if I backed off you and also figured people would go the opposite of what I was saying.

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Yeah, there were a number of close deadline calls where just one vote switch would have made a huge difference. The wolves always ended up on the right side of those.

The funny thing is that I was waiting for the chance to vote switch to help the cause (which is why I kept my vote off the major front runners for most of the game) but there always ended up being a villager what switched to help us out.


I was really hoping to be around for the deadline to do the Danny vote today too. I went with mccollins when I changed off Schmidty as I figured they would suspect Danny was the brutal if I went with him out of the blue.

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

I can comment on my picks:

#1 Chief Rum - I wanted a guy who has a few games under his belt who doesn't attract too much attention. #1 criteria here was to stay alive for a few days. I expected I would make this pick my cunning wolf, but didn't really have much in way of pre-conceived notions about other roles

#4 Danny - I wanted a trend-breaker here. I knew there would be speculation about who I would draft and I wanted to go off the map. Plus I had liked what I had seen from Danny in his previous game as a villager, so I figured I would make him a wolf.

#9(?) Mccollins - He has given me some trouble as a villager when I'm a wolf, so I figured that I would take this opportunity to see how he plays as a wolf. Again, someone who I think isn't likely to die too early and isn't easily going to be fingered as a "hoopsguy" pick.

#19 Mrs Schmidty - played a great first game, so let's see how the whole wolf thing works out. This is the 4th person that I picked that I've never played with as a wolf, and I believe the 3rd person I'm making a 1st time wolf. If people were looking for trends, those would have been the winners.

#22 EagleFan - I've played with him a couple of times before, so I cast him as the cultist. I wanted to follow along with the conversation from the people that I've never played with more than I wanted to see EF as a wolf for the 3rd time. But I wish I could have been on the listening end to his thoughts via PM this game - he really had the wolves off-balance all the way to the end.

I knew I sucked but wow, picked 22nd out of 21 people.

[claphamsa]

impressive

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

I knew I sucked but wow, picked 22nd out of 21 people.

Heh, counting is hard.

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Heh, counting is hard.

Yes!!! I got yet another person to use the bangs head against wall smiley in this thread!!!

[claphamsa]

hahaha

[Mrs. Schmidty]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

What part of "It didbly post then buy did" can't you understand?!?!

[Mrs. Schmidty]

Thanks for the game guys, that was so much fun! It was hard sometimes when I saw the village going the wrong way, or misinterpreting a move to not say, "you guys come on! Don't you see it?" Very cool to be on the other side, I liked the challenge. I see now why sometimes the villagers are so paranoid and over-analyze what's said because there really is a ton of scheming and directing of votes in different directions.

I think the drafting on both sides was fair and I'm "cool" with being the last wolf picked lol.

[Chief Rum]

Thanks for the great game, st.cronin. I had a lot of fun. And big time thanks to hoops for drafting me #1, as well as to the kind comments of others who said or implied it was the "obvious" move. I think we have some great players here, and several could fit into the that #1 spot, so I appreciate that you guys have that opinion of me. I completely agree with hoops (in the chat) where my schedule tends to hide me a little more than other high-rep players, although I have always said no one should hold back voting me just because of my schedule. Afternoon deadlines, actually, are the worst for this. I think my schedule also helped with the Cruise game, where I was again a victorious wolf. Evening deadlines are more fun for me personally--but I have less success with them.

I think Poli did a terrific draft. If I had seen the draft before the game, I think I would have thought hoops made some really odd choices. I would have liekly accepted them as potentially solid because hoops makes excellent moves, really, all the time, but I would have thought it weird. But then upon getting together with my team, I was amazed. Danny, Mrs. Schmidty and mccollins are all very good players, and scary wolves. Our PM conversations were gold. Just great stuff. Don't trust any of us (or EF).

Speaking of EF, EagleFan, actually I didn't catch on in any so obvious ways, although I believe I did think there was potential for you being the wolf based one exactly what you said, the hit and run vote on Mrs. Schmidty, the interest and vote on me. But there were a lot of villagers who we were getting mixed reads on, so it was a sorta situation where your tells were getting lost in a mass of perceived tells from everyone else. We switched our "obvious cultist" picks from day to day, trying to figure it out, and didn't until the whole Schmidty reveal thing. Like mccollins said, we were really thrown by the very dangerous votes and attention you were throwing out there. So you did a really good job in this one of hiding yourself.

We also made the mistake of applying conventional wisdom to hoops' draft, even as I said we should be careful about doing it. We were thrown by the relative inexperience of the wolf group, and figured the cultist was a high level/rep player who was probably drafted first overall, with me second. So we were looking at Barkeep, Pass, other long time vets, etc.

My "best" move was apparently an accident. I saw DT use the term "b/c" in a key Day One post, thought it was a "bg" hint, and picked him out as the BG before his reveal. Turns out "b/c" was just a way he writes (he did it later, post reveal and before we NK'd him). So we got lucky there (although didn't matter anyway, with his reveal).

Dodged a close vote on me on Day Two, and a ton of close votes on mccollins--this guy has nine lives, I just can't believe it. Mrs. Schmidty got some heat early on, and of course, Danny got a lot more heat the last few days. I really think this game was as much about things just breaking the right way, as it was smart play. I think we as wolves made some very good decisions and maximized our opportunities, but we also just had some good rolls, too. We almost talked ourselves out of killing DT on Day Two. I forget why, but I know I was the one leading that bad logic. We didn't get the order change in time, and DT ended up killed, and BK the spy was lynched in a vote where I was one vote behind him. That day was utter euphoria, along with picking out SnDvls as the last remaining seer on Day Three (we, too, thought Lathum was the fake--we didn't even know he was the real seer until now with you guys).

Speaking of Lathum, we really did kill him for exactly what I postulated in the thread--to keep the other seer guessing and basically to screw with y'all, since Lathum was a key to a lot of theories you guys had. I even used the term mindf*** in the thread, which I later got anxious about because I realized I used pretty much the exact same term in private PMs suggesting a similar approach in the previous game where I was a wolf with Alan, LSG, EF and Telle--and they were all still alive at that time. I prayed none of them would catch the term and make a link to my past behavior.

clap, stop automatically suspecting I'm a wolf. It's killing me! Actually, I hope I am not a wolf for a while. I suspect I will be lynched on Day One several games in a row.

Thanks again everyone. I had a blast. And to the other wolves, wow, great team. You guys can be my wingman any time (cue obvious response...).

[Lathum]

I'm gonna start killing CR every day 1

[PackerFanatic]

Chief Rum = The New Lathum

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by PackerFanatic

Chief Rum = The New Lathum

never.

but his schedule makes it easy for people to lose track of him.

[Lathum]

dola-

The game hit a point, I think it was right after Pass died, when I was sure CR was going to be nailed.

If you looked at who was left at that point and tried to determine who hoops would pick CR was really the only one left.

This isn't meant as any offense to anyone. It was just so obvious.

[Lathum]

double dola- I will say CR is a better villager then I will ever be but I don't think anyone can squirm their way out of a jam or make a fake reveal the way I have pulled some off in the past.

[LoneStarGirl]

That was a great game... had us really squirming throughout. I do have to say that I called 2 or 3 of the wolfs early on, but didn't know how to make anybody follow me. We had Chief Rum the first day or so but nobody would go after him again... And Mrs. Schmidty was a perfect candidate (Told y'all Hoops had to have at least one female)

[Mrs. Schmidty]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

You guys can be my wingman any time (cue obvious response...).

"Bulls**t. You can be mine."

[mccollins]

Originally Posted by Lathum

If you looked at who was left at that point and tried to determine who hoops would pick CR was really the only one left.

Luckily enough for us, no one returned to that logic of "which vet?". I agree that it was sitting right out there.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Lathum

dola-

The game hit a point, I think it was right after Pass died, when I was sure CR was going to be nailed.

If you looked at who was left at that point and tried to determine who hoops would pick CR was really the only one left.

This isn't meant as any offense to anyone. It was just so obvious.

No, really, it looked bloody obvious to me, too. No one took their thoughts down that road, though, fortunately (at least not after the first couple days).

[Chief Rum]

Oh, and didn't say this before. Big time thanks to mccollins for being my connection to the team during workdays via email. He kept me updated and in the loop as developments were going on, so I could toss my 2 cents in. It made the game eminently more fun, and, as I said above, the glimpse I had of him reinforced to me that mccollins will continue to be a dangerous WW player, both as a wolf and a villager. I doubt my boss enjoyed the drop in production, though.

Thanks, mccollins.

[st.cronin]

I believe Poli and hoopsguy both had a lot of fun. I encourage other gms to use the draft mechanic if they have the chance. I also like the potential of tying the wolf kills to votes - somebody more creative than me might come up with a better mechanism.

[mccollins]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Oh, and didn't say this before. Big time thanks to mccollins for being my connection to the team during workdays via email. He kept me updated and in the loop as developments were going on, so I could toss my 2 cents in. It made the game eminently more fun, and, as I said above, the glimpse I had of him reinforced to me that mccollins will continue to be a dangerous WW player, both as a wolf and a villager. I doubt my boss enjoyed the drop in production, though.

Thanks, mccollins.

Thanks man. I should probably focus more on work while at work

[DaddyTorgo]

so wait - did we ever get any of the wolves?

[st.cronin]

Danny, the brutal wolf, was lynched at endgame.

[DaddyTorgo]

neh

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

so wait - did we ever get any of the wolves?

So...yes, but only because they wanted to end it and they had a wolf on the block already.

[SnDvls]

Fun game...us villagers underperformed for sure and the wolves played a great game.