WW LXV-- Enter the CUBICLE (GAME OVER! See Post #1625 For Final Game Post)

[claphamsa]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

No, I said earlier I wouldn't have that (although I thought about switching just because clap actually posted he was leaving for the weekend the other day without bothering to vote ).

Thought I had already voted

[RendeR]

Well when I'm wrong I'm wrong. Sorry NTN.

VOTE PASSACAGLIA


Only valid target for today based on recent events.

[Passacaglia]

I thought about this some more on my way to work, and I still don't see why I would be on the opposite wolf team. We know that Alan T was all by himself, since his teammates fink, farrah, and bsak were gone. The other wolf team has three left? Maybe four if they've found the Fish? How can he expect to go up against another wolf, when there's three or four guys he knows will protect him? I think his best play has got to be offering up a villager, and hoping the other wolves settle for a truce, then hoping he can win the wolf vs. wolf night last night.

Meanwhile, a run on another villager started up. With the vote close between me and ntn, the other wolves were left with two villagers, and not much concern over who dies. I think it was all the same to them -- thus the relatively slow day. But a comment right before deadline by The Jackal struck me.

Originally Posted by The Jackal

I'm honestly not sure which of these two I think is a wolf, so I'm going to let the majority to this point decide it, instead of trying to force a tie.

To me, that reaks of a wolf watching a villager-villager vote.

VOTE THE JACKAL

[jeheinz72]

I just can't get around the fact of his activity level, NYC trip or not, has been near nothing

Vote claphamsa

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

I just can't get around the fact of his activity level, NYC trip or not, has been near nothing

Vote claphamsa

He must have taken too much time at his favorite New York pizza place...Sbarro's!

[claphamsa]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

He must have taken too much time at his favorite New York pizza place...Sbarro's!

I cant eat pizza, im alergic to tomatoes!

[claphamsa]

vote pass

I had him ealrier, so im stickign with it!

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by claphamsa

vote pass

I had him ealrier, so im stickign with it!

clap, you should check out what I've read today -- werewolf games change from day to day -- a vote yesterday doesn't really mean you should vote the same today. Look at RendeR, and how much trouble he was in Day 1 and 2, but now the heat is pretty much off him.

And look at The Jackal. Do you see what I'm saying about his post right before the deadline? He could have cinched it for ntn, or he could have tied it. But he didn't care who died -- this is surely a wolf that's okay with anything, as long as a villager goes down, either me or ntn, it doesn't matter.

His action to purposely not vote was made for two reasons -- first, to avoid a tie. We don't know what happens in a tie, but if there's a chance that neither of us died, it hurts him. Also, he wanted to avoid being one of the last votes on somebody -- he saw how that put me and mauboy in hot water when we voted for fink late, and wanted to stay away. Otherwise, if you're sitting there that late on Day 6, with tons of info out there, why not just make a decision?

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by claphamsa

vote pass

I had him ealrier, so im stickign with it!

I have to admit I feel like I missed a lot of the Alan/Pass back-and-forth. What was the case against Pass (if you don't mind summarizing)

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

And look at The Jackal. Do you see what I'm saying about his post right before the deadline? He could have cinched it for ntn, or he could have tied it. But he didn't care who died -- this is surely a wolf that's okay with anything, as long as a villager goes down, either me or ntn, it doesn't matter.

His action to purposely not vote was made for two reasons -- first, to avoid a tie. We don't know what happens in a tie, but if there's a chance that neither of us died, it hurts him. Also, he wanted to avoid being one of the last votes on somebody -- he saw how that put me and mauboy in hot water when we voted for fink late, and wanted to stay away. Otherwise, if you're sitting there that late on Day 6, with tons of info out there, why not just make a decision?

based on what you just posted I'd say he did it to ensure NTN went down and save your ass. NTN wasn't a wolf, and he'd know that if he's a wolf. Assuming as most of us have that all the golf buddies are gone he could have ignored voting unless someone jumped on you late to put you ahead and then voted NTN to ensure it either way.

If I am to believe your post here I almost have to believe that you and he are on the same wolf team. So we'll vote you off today and him tomorrow.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by RendeR

based on what you just posted I'd say he did it to ensure NTN went down and save your ass. NTN wasn't a wolf, and he'd know that if he's a wolf. Assuming as most of us have that all the golf buddies are gone he could have ignored voting unless someone jumped on you late to put you ahead and then voted NTN to ensure it either way.

If I am to believe your post here I almost have to believe that you and he are on the same wolf team. So we'll vote you off today and him tomorrow.

Why would you assume all the golf buddies are gone? The Comic is still around.

[path12]

Interesting. I wasn't sure if Alan was a wolf or not. I think that resolves the Pass question pretty well in my mind -- the only other person I can think of voting for today would be Schmidty just because he hasn't been around. I'm always in favor of voting those who aren't around. But for now:

VOTE PASSACAGLIA

[Mr. Wednesday]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

His action to purposely not vote was made for two reasons -- first, to avoid a tie. We don't know what happens in a tie, but if there's a chance that neither of us died, it hurts him.

As I stated quite clearly, an apparent tie works to the benefit of the wolves: there are none of the golfing buddies left who get an automatic -1 to their total, and there was at least one temp left who would get an automatic +1 to their total.

Also, he wanted to avoid being one of the last votes on somebody -- he saw how that put me and mauboy in hot water when we voted for fink late, and wanted to stay away. Otherwise, if you're sitting there that late on Day 6, with tons of info out there, why not just make a decision?

You are really, really reaching here.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Why would you assume all the golf buddies are gone? The Comic is still around.

Oops, you're right. I forgot about him.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Double dola, even with one golfing buddy left, I still feel like there were likely to be more temps than that remaining, so a tie would still more probably work to the benefit of the wolves.

[The Jackal]

vote pass

I'm sorry if my non-vote reeks to you of wolf behavior, but I think I had a legitimate reason for not voting, and I explained myself. I think the heated back and forth between Alan and Pass is enough to convince me that Alan was desperately trying to get a cougar eliminated to give the crew some sort of shot.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wednesday

As I stated quite clearly, an apparent tie works to the benefit of the wolves: there are none of the golfing buddies left who get an automatic -1 to their total, and there was at least one temp left who would get an automatic +1 to their total.


You are really, really reaching here.

So, wouldn't causing a tie make him look more wolfish? I think he was afraid to cause a tie, and afraid to give ntn a 2-vote lead. RendeR claims that his non-vote was in effect saving me, but I think if he really wanted to save me, he'd have put his vote on ntn just to make sure there were no last-minute shenanigans. On the other hand, I can see where RendeR is coming from -- the wolves probably know that I'd definitely be on the block today, and the same can't be said for ntn. I can definitely see them wanting to get rid of ntn yesterday, so they can get rid of me today.

[jeheinz72]

I dunno Pass. I wasn't going to go this route but it seems like you're over-explaining now. If you're innocent, then wow does the voting record not look good. Here goes nothing

Unvote claphamsa
Vote Passacaglia

[Passacaglia]

But really, what part of my voting record looks bad? I feel like I've managed to take heat for voting for wolves, but also voting for villagers. I feel like I've been put in a difficult position by the powers that be, with no way to really dig myself out. But, what about my votes is there to dispute?

Day 1 -- I think I left my vote on ntn? I don't remember really, but hey, it's Day 1.
Day 2 -- Vote for RendeR, switch to fink, wolf.
Day 3 -- Vote for Farrah, wolf. I guess the thinking among some was that we shouldn't have gone after her, because she was a wolf on the wrong team, but given who pushed for that, I can see why it was pushed.
Day 4 -- Vote for mauboy, villager (but acting strangely)
Day 5 -- Vote for Alan, switched to bsak -- both wolves. I was wrong about what team Alan was on, but bsak was also acting strangely
Day 6 -- Vote for Alan, switched to ntn in self defense.

Keep in mind that Days 3, 4, and 5 were bandwagons, and it's not like I was screaming like a chicken with its head cut off about them. I placed my votes, gave my reasons, and everyone else followed because they were the right moves. How is that wolfish?

[jeheinz72]

Well I guess that's my point man, it's not that you haven't been successful in taking out wolves, you certainly have, they just so happen to all reside on the same team...that makes me think you basically aided in the dismissal of the majority of the Crew, so you're likely a Cougar.

I would think someone that is truly innocent wouldn't be so deft at it. I mean I know I have no idea who the wolves were and haven't been able to hit the broad side of a barn for the most part

[jeheinz72]

Plus if I'm doing the math right, there are 9 people left and we know at least 3 Cougars on the prowl. That's with the thought that the Fish hasn't been converted at all. If he has, heck we're one mis-step from losing. So, for me, if it boils down to one vote by me with the entire department life on the line, I feel most confident in the vote for you.

[claphamsa]

were down to 9 people? wow!

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

Well I guess that's my point man, it's not that you haven't been successful in taking out wolves, you certainly have, they just so happen to all reside on the same team...that makes me think you basically aided in the dismissal of the majority of the Crew, so you're likely a Cougar.

I would think someone that is truly innocent wouldn't be so deft at it. I mean I know I have no idea who the wolves were and haven't been able to hit the broad side of a barn for the most part

But that's the thing -- I haven't been deft at it, it's just sort of happened.

fink -- close race with Render on Day 2, early on, and I (along with other villagers) chose the guy who hadn't posted at all
Farrah -- cronin scanned her
Alan -- came after me
bsak -- odd behavior toward Lathum, the bodyguard

Keep in mind that Farrah and bsak were bandwagon votes -- again, it's not like I *knew* they were wolves -- I voted for them based on the same thing that made TONS of other people vote for them. And if you think Alan wouldn't set up a villager to die after he's gone, you need to play with him a few more times!

[Passacaglia]

The other thing is, it's not like I've been THAT succesful taking out wolves. I've also voted for mau and ntn. I'll grant you that ntn was a self-defense vote, but I thought we had something on mau, and I took a lot of heat for it -- there were a few "if mau turns up good, we'll look at pass tomorrow" comments. I just feel like I'm being reasoned against on opposite ends.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by claphamsa

were down to 9 people? wow!

Yes, so it's really important we do the right thing here. It's at best 6-3, at worst 5-4. The game could end here tonight, unless someone does something to stop it.

[jeheinz72]

Well the mau one just about everyone screwed up on, including myself.

I don't know about Alan setting up a villager, at least not in this dynamic. Why would he help the Cougars out like that? He was the last man standing on his team and so he knew the other squad was coming for him last night as a wolf v wolf. I don't know how they figure out who kills who for the wolves, but he had to know that time wasn't exactly on his side and he couldn't sit around lynching villagers if he wanted to win.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

Well the mau one just about everyone screwed up on, including myself.

I don't know about Alan setting up a villager, at least not in this dynamic. Why would he help the Cougars out like that? He was the last man standing on his team and so he knew the other squad was coming for him last night as a wolf v wolf. I don't know how they figure out who kills who for the wolves, but he had to know that time wasn't exactly on his side and he couldn't sit around lynching villagers if he wanted to win.

But remember, when he started coming after me, bsak was alive.

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

But remember, when he started coming after me, bsak was alive.

That's a good point. But I don't know if it's enough for me to shake my confidence.

Or put more succinctly, if you grade out as say a "B-minus" as far as my thoughts of you being a wolf, the rest are all F's and D's. I'm not exactly seeing a whole lotta options here.

[path12]

Bsak wasn't just because of the Lathum thing (we actually didn't know Lathum was the bodyguard until late that day when he revealed, remember). It was at least partially because of his voting records and arguments about others as well as Lathum.

Pass, let me ask you this. If not you, who is the best person to look at? If you have a case against a better candidate I'll look at it, but as of now I can't see anyone that's more likely to be a wolf than you.

[jeheinz72]

I'm off for awhile, I'll check back in a few hours to see what's shakin' before my final call around 3 Pacific

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by path12

Bsak wasn't just because of the Lathum thing (we actually didn't know Lathum was the bodyguard until late that day when he revealed, remember). It was at least partially because of his voting records and arguments about others as well as Lathum.

Pass, let me ask you this. If not you, who is the best person to look at? If you have a case against a better candidate I'll look at it, but as of now I can't see anyone that's more likely to be a wolf than you.

That doesn't seem like how I remember it -- I thought that Lathum revealed, and everyone changed their votes. I remember checking in for just a moment and happened to see that right before I posted -- otherwise, I wasn't on bsak at all, I was busy defending myself against Alan.

As for the best person to look at, I've mentioned The Jackal -- I think his weenieness around deadline yesterday was a newbie mistake, trying not to get caught making the deciding vote. Beyond that, I don't have much -- I think the crew has done a great job, so I'm looking at guys I find to be quiet reflective types that are still in the game -- namely you and Mr. Wednesday.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wednesday

VOTE PASSACAGLIA

I have a hard time believing Alan would be tilting that hard at someone who wasn't a Cougar.

I still feel like this needs to be contended with, as I think it's absolutely false. Alan couldn't go against the other wolves -- he had to know that was a losing battle. Alan's smart enough to know that the only way to survive was to do all he could to make it villager vs. villager, and hope he can pick off the wolves on wolf vs. wolf nights -- at least until the numbers got more even.

[Passacaglia]

UNVOTE THE JACKAL
VOTE MR. WEDNESDAY

He's been after me for a while, which I think was signalling a tacit agreement between his team and Alan to go after me instead of each other -- unfortunately, other things kept getting in the way.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

UNVOTE THE JACKAL
VOTE MR. WEDNESDAY

He's been after me for a while, which I think was signalling a tacit agreement between his team and Alan to go after me instead of each other -- unfortunately, other things kept getting in the way.

In fact, I think he unwittingly initiated this agreement. Looking at the vote counts, I see that Wednesday had his vote on me the day before Alan ever did. I think Alan's vote on me was an appeal to Wednesday that the wolves should go after me instead of each other.

[The Jackal]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

As for the best person to look at, I've mentioned The Jackal -- I think his weenieness around deadline yesterday was a newbie mistake, trying not to get caught making the deciding vote.

I'm not a newbie. However, I am a newbie to these forums, and I thought it best to let the majority of players experienced with the two of you to decide. You seem to be the only one who had a problem with it, though I'm sure others weren't too fond of the choice (one being Alan if I remember correctly, and hey, he was a wolf!).

I see you switched your vote to Mr. Wednesday, though.

[The Jackal]

I think pass is probably a wolf, but in case he's not, we need to pay attention to who pushed the voting for him because there are at least three cougars left and they are most likely voting together at this stage, so close to victory.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wednesday

One observation: Pretty much all the golfing buddies are gone, but none of the temps. A tie would be a bad thing, as a tie between a wolf and a temp would lynch the temp.

Here's a post from the end of the day yesterday by Mr. Wednesday. He states that a tie would be a bad thing, since "pretty much" all the golfing buddies are gone. But..there's still one left. While 2 out of 3 being gone can I guess be called "pretty much" all gone, it strikes me as an attempt to make a tie okay, and possibly get a golfing buddy -- or, to give The Jackal a reason to bow out of the voting.

[path12]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

As for the best person to look at, I've mentioned The Jackal -- I think his weenieness around deadline yesterday was a newbie mistake, trying not to get caught making the deciding vote. Beyond that, I don't have much -- I think the crew has done a great job, so I'm looking at guys I find to be quiet reflective types that are still in the game -- namely you and Mr. Wednesday.

Hmmm. Ask who else there is a case for, and you mention the person who is asking you to give him a reason to vote elsewhere. I like the cut of your jib and would very much like to subscribe to your newsletter.

I don't know that it motivates me to go elsewhere....I'll relook at Jackal and Mr W though.

[path12]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

I think pass is probably a wolf, but in case he's not, we need to pay attention to who pushed the voting for him because there are at least three cougars left and they are most likely voting together at this stage, so close to victory.

That's an interesting point. If Pass is part of the crew, would anyone try to defend him? I'd think so, but maybe not......especially if they've already got the fish.

[path12]

Dola, meant cougars instead of crew. Stupid no editing.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

I'm not a newbie. However, I am a newbie to these forums, and I thought it best to let the majority of players experienced with the two of you to decide. You seem to be the only one who had a problem with it, though I'm sure others weren't too fond of the choice (one being Alan if I remember correctly, and hey, he was a wolf!).

I see you switched your vote to Mr. Wednesday, though.

I'm sorry, but that just seems like a copout to me. I generally dislike theories that involve two or more people being allied, so I'm working to separate the two of you, and see which one seems more wolfish. It's tough, so whoever's behind all this is doing a great job.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by path12

Hmmm. Ask who else there is a case for, and you mention the person who is asking you to give him a reason to vote elsewhere. I like the cut of your jib and would very much like to subscribe to your newsletter.

I don't know that it motivates me to go elsewhere....I'll relook at Jackal and Mr W though.

I thought about asking you if you would switch your vote to path, if I promised to do the same, but thought better of it. I'll see what I can dig up on you, too.

[Passacaglia]

Just looking at Day 1. Farrah put a vote on The Jackal, and fink put a vote on Mr. Wednesday. I wonder if these were feelers to see how well they could get attacks going on the other team?

[Passacaglia]

Also, Mr. Wednesday had some weird voting going on at the end of Day 2. If I recall, his vote was made in order to make it a tie, but it's hard to figure, since we don't know at point he started to make the vote. The vote ended 9-5 for fink. Did he make the vote when it was 6 on fink, and 5 on RendeR? That was SEVENTEEN posts before his vote (I'm assuming that Alan misrecorded when his vote came, and it wasn't actually 117 posts before)!

[claphamsa]

Just to get my mind around this... we have

2 Cougars?
1 fish
2 temps?

4 shmucks?

or do we think there are more/ less temps?

[The Jackal]

3 cougars
1 fish/wolf
1 comic
2 temps
2 shmucks

is more like it.. there may not be a comic but if there were four crew there are probably four cougars.. unless the fish became a crew and then we've only got two cougars to worry about.

[claphamsa]

I see only 3 dead crew..... why woud there be more cougaars than crew?

[The Jackal]

alan t was crew it just hasnt been updated yet

and scratch what i said about the fish possibly being crew, i think we wouldve been told if the fish had died, so theres gotta be at least 3 cougars

[Mr. Wednesday]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Also, Mr. Wednesday had some weird voting going on at the end of Day 2. If I recall, his vote was made in order to make it a tie, but it's hard to figure, since we don't know at point he started to make the vote. The vote ended 9-5 for fink. Did he make the vote when it was 6 on fink, and 5 on RendeR? That was SEVENTEEN posts before his vote (I'm assuming that Alan misrecorded when his vote came, and it wasn't actually 117 posts before)!

I tried to make it a tie, because a tie worked strongly in favor of the golf buddies, and at the time I believe we still had both of the most useful roles in play. When I initially tried to flip, RendeR had a lead of one, so I took my vote off of him and threw it on somebody unrelated (although there was some craziness around me unvoting the wrong guy).

When there was a subsequent vote on Fink, I moved right back onto RendeR, and then the late votes on Fink settled things.

Without knowing RendeR's affiliation, nor the tiebreaking strategy if the apparent tie would have been an actual tie, it's impossible to say if my move was correct.

[RendeR]

I resent being labeled a schmuck.