Werewolf XXVIII: Mad Wizard and the Wolves (Game over Pg45)

[Lathum]

Sorry McKerney...

I almost wonder if a tie could be a good thing since it may clear up St Cronin and/or Saldana...

just a thought.

[mckerney]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Sorry McKerney...

I almost wonder if a tie could be a good thing since it may clear up St Cronin and/or Saldana...

just a thought.

Ah, no worries. I wasn't able to do much in the two days so far because my schedule right now sucks for WW. I've been working 6 days a week and usually have to work until 9 CST, so I'm typically at work when most of the discussion is going on and can't usually be around for the voting deadlines. If my work situation stays like it is right now I may have to sit the next few games out.

[hoopsguy]

Blade, Post #541:

My vote for you, which i openly admitted wasnt going to lynch you, changed your trust in me that dramatically...odd, no buddy?

It changed my giving you the benefit of the doubt. You were in the 'middle of the road' before, despite the fact that you were one of the people to vote on Tanglewood.

If I trust Cronin's reveal (and I'm fairly close to doing so) then I find it really, really hard to believe that Team Wizard didn't have a vote on either you or Tanglewood on Day 1. So that leads me back to you, Schmidty, and Tyrith. Two of those three people switched votes from others to me in the last 30 or so minutes of Day 2. I'm not saying that you are both Wizards, but both of you put me in a position to be removed from the game by the Wizards.

Your vote, and Path's vote, were especially disconcerting for me because they seemed frivolous ... "lets see what other people will do, I'm not taking accountability for my vote except to put other people under pressure with their vote". On this point, at least Schmidty indicated that he really doesn't trust me when he changed his vote. I'm not wild about that either, but he didn't try to pass the buck to Ardent, Path, or whoever is the next person to vote.

[saldana]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Sorry McKerney...

I almost wonder if a tie could be a good thing since it may clear up St Cronin and/or Saldana...

just a thought.

it wont do anything for me that i am aware of...like i said before,i dont have any special role, just a bit of knowlegde that coupled with cronin's reveal made a bit more sense. I cannot break a tie.

[saldana]

as far as thoughts go, i think it very unlikely that we were close to getting hoops last night and no one switched, unless he and ardent are both baddies, so that moves hoops up my list a bit. at this point i am inclined to go with hoops shot at path. although i am seriously thinking about voting for schmidty....his posts have been far more frequent and verbose (and sober) than ever before...it may be a situation of hiding in plain sight, since he always takes some pressure for being one of the less frequent posters.

[SirFozzie]

There is a huge flash of light that seems to divide and settle on the ruined village over night. Several of you seek cover.. but just before the light becomes unbearably too bright.. there is a sudden rush of wind, and the light abruptly fades. When you come out the next morning.. all of you are still here! The first bit of hope stirs your heart.

Day 3 has begun

[saldana]

now the questions start...conversion or protection...i'm betting on conversion.

[SirFozzie]

eidited my typo in Post 556, nothing huge, (just explaining why my post has an edit tag)

[Coffee Warlord]

Sounds like a conversion.

Alright, it's early, I've had very little coffee, but my opinion of two folks after reading up on things last night.

Blade - Good guy. I was actually originally suspicious of him at the onset of the game when he stated he wasn't gonna post as much. Sounded like a bit of a ploy to keep the heat off of him. But, I've noticed he's back in his usual habits of heavy, hard hitting posting. He may be wrong in some of his judgements thus far, but he's pretty high on my list of good guys.

Hoops - Ahhh hoops. You always worry me, and that has not changed after what I've been reading. I want to see some other people's opinions of other players (as I freely admit it's hard to get a good feel for things when you hop in mid-game), but thus far, you're a big suspect to me. Something new for you.

[Alan T]

I think for now I am siding with Saldana on interpretation of the night events. I am guessing if a bodyguard got lucky last night, there would have been some commotion or noise. My read on the night event was something happened from the gust of wind and such.

Like I said yesterday, my top suspect going into today was path. I went back through both his day 1 and day 2 posts/decisions to try to figure out if I wanted to pursue this more or not..

Day1 - Voted for Tyrith he said mainly due to the past game and wanting to get him to come out and be more vocal/talk more.
- Towards the end of the day, when Tyrith was not really heavily in play (At that point was mainly Blade vs Tangle) Tyrith had shown back up and was participating more in the thread, but Path stuck on tyrith and really did not play any part in the decision of day1.

Day2 - Path mentioned he was going to be pretty swamped so did not post alot during the day
- Earlier on put another placeholder vote on Tyrith saying it was mainly because Tyrith was one of the Tanglewood voters. He said he did have some suspicions of Hoops
-Path later showed back up near the end when the only 3 votes not committed to mckerney or hoops were him, ardent and dubbs. He seemingly waited till ardent showed up and then took the easy way out by voting for hoops which did not swing the vote at all, but instead threw all of the heat on ardent instead.

Now a few possible places he could have been working with someone to shape votes, but right now it feels to me that he is trying a bit too hard to escape having to put his vote on the line. Perhaps if we find out either Tyrith or Hoops are not on our team, then it would change my opinion of him more. Right now though his votes have been too non-commital for my tastes.

VOTE PATH

[saldana]

alan, this what day 3 looks like

i am with you a bit on the path vote, and dont have a problem going to him at days end if needed...but for the time being, i am going to play my hunch and
vote schmidty

with that, i am off to the beer festival, i will try and make it back in time for the deadline.

[hoopsguy]

OK, yesterday I indicated that I had a role but that revealing it up close at the deadline wasn't going to have much value since there wouldn't be time for everyone to check in and have the opportunity to check it against their own.

I'm the bodyguard. I have not been successful on my first two nights of guarding. I would prefer not to say who I guarded last night as it makes them vulnerable for tonight (can't guard same person twice in a row) but I guarded Cronin on Night 1 because I thought his early support of me might be indicative of him as the seer.

Since I have not had any positive results in my two evenings at the post, I can assure you that last nights non-action was not the result of a successful protect.

I'll be stepping into a meeting now, but will be around most of the day to answer any questions people have in regards to my role and play up to this point.

[path12]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Day1 - Voted for Tyrith he said mainly due to the past game and wanting to get him to come out and be more vocal/talk more.
- Towards the end of the day, when Tyrith was not really heavily in play (At that point was mainly Blade vs Tangle) Tyrith had shown back up and was participating more in the thread, but Path stuck on tyrith and really did not play any part in the decision of day1.

I rarely change my day 1 vote, barring a reveal and/or slip up.

Originally Posted by Alan T

Day2 - Path mentioned he was going to be pretty swamped so did not post alot during the day
- Earlier on put another placeholder vote on Tyrith saying it was mainly because Tyrith was one of the Tanglewood voters. He said he did have some suspicions of Hoops
-Path later showed back up near the end when the only 3 votes not committed to mckerney or hoops were him, ardent and dubbs. He seemingly waited till ardent showed up and then took the easy way out by voting for hoops which did not swing the vote at all, but instead threw all of the heat on ardent instead.

I don't agree with your interpretation. Agreed, I did not post much during the day because of work issues, and as you say, I also did state early my suspicion of hoops. I left work at 8 Eastern, and by the time I got home and settled it was 9:30 Eastern.

From my standpoint, and if you go back you'll see that I wasn't thrilled with either choice -- I found the mckerney bandwagon strange and said so, and also said that though I was suspicious of hoops that he was potentially too valuable to off if he was good. But I wasn't going to waste my vote, so I had two choices: provide a margin on mckerney and learn about him only, or tie it up for hoops and see if a) any late switches, b) get a feel on Ardent's thinking and c) if there remains a tie see if any of the two were important enough for either of the bosses to save.

I still think the choice is clear, and I would make the same choice every time. If you feel that's a basis to vote me, I respect that.

So I'll put my vote out early today since I managed to get in the office early but will be somewhat busy today also. I'll be as clear as possible. My suspect list consists of:

Hoops -- he is still alive, and he is acting even more hoops-like than usual (if that makes sense).
Ardent -- he was a hell of a lot more active last time in a game he WASN'T EVEN IN! Saved Hoops.
Alan -- for finding my vote for hoops suspicious.

VOTE HOOPS (but I would easily switch to Ardent if there's a movement).

BTW, I agree that there was likely a conversion last night.

[path12]

Dola, crosspost with Hoops. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt barring a counter.

UNVOTE HOOPS
VOTE ARDENT

[Lathum]

So if we are to believe hoops then it is safe to assume there was a conversion last night?

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Lathum

So if we are to believe hoops then it is safe to assume there was a conversion last night?

That was my belief based on fozzie's write up. Hoops's post kind of helps me feel stronger about that though. Right now I think hoops put himself out on the limb and unless someone comes forth and challenges him saying they are the bodyguard, I feel pretty comfortable about him being on our team.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by Alan T

That was my belief based on fozzie's write up. Hoops's post kind of helps me feel stronger about that though. Right now I think hoops put himself out on the limb and unless someone comes forth and challenges him saying they are the bodyguard, I feel pretty comfortable about him being on our team.

Im not the bodyguard, but i am 100% positive i wish to challenge hoopsguy on what happened last night.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

Im not the bodyguard, but i am 100% positive i wish to challenge hoopsguy on what happened last night.

please explain

[Lathum]

I feel pretty good about schmidty right now, he made a late switch of Mckerney when he could have just left his vote on mckerney and sealed the fate of a wolf. Why would schmidty do that and call all that attention to himself if he was a baddie?

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by Lathum

please explain

Id prefer not to yet, as their are still pieces that need to be connected for me before i openly challenge hoops here.

During the course of my factoral investigation, i need to know if one of my fellow wolf brothers wants to agree with me or if im alone in my unqiue take on last night.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I feel pretty good about schmidty right now, he made a late switch of Mckerney when he could have just left his vote on mckerney and sealed the fate of a wolf. Why would schmidty do that and call all that attention to himself if he was a baddie?

I did that one game when I was a baddie with just that thought in mind. I have Schmidty higher up on my distrust list not necessarily just for that action, but on how and why he made that move. He jumped on the mckerney bandwagon without much reason, then in an hour and a half later changed to hoops because of hoops "dominating" the discussion. At that time, hoops was in a run off with mckerney and didn't want to die, so I fully expect him to be giving us every reason why we shouldn't lynch him if he honestly is playing for our side.

I think the thing that didnt sit well with me about schmidty is that he made a move boldly claiming how he fully expects to be on people's suspect lists for it, then afterwards when some of us did find it a little suspicious, he jumped at that. It felt to me that he was pressing to try to start something out of nothing, which is a tactic I see done alot to add confusion.

All that said, I still felt Path was a better candidate today than Schmidty is. I just don't necessarily know how to read Schmidty that well, he's behaving a bit differently than the last games I played with him.

And on a different note, I'm curious about Blade's comment. I'm curious what you are going to contest about Hoops's statement? That there was no protection last night, or that he is the bodyguard?

[st.cronin]

Hoops may be telling the truth. I'd like for him to explain more about his character before I decide.

placeholder vote:

VOTE ARDENT ENTHUSIAST

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

Id prefer not to yet, as their are still pieces that need to be connected for me before i openly challenge hoops here.

During the course of my factoral investigation, i need to know if one of my fellow wolf brothers wants to agree with me or if im alone in my unqiue take on last night.

well I guess that depends on your take. hoops is saying that he didn't protect anyone last night, so what are you challenging him on?

[path12]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

During the course of my factoral investigation, i need to know if one of my fellow wolf brothers wants to agree with me or if im alone in my unqiue take on last night.

I'm not sure exactly where you're coming from, but my mind is open to any possibilities that you would want to explore.....

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by Alan T

That there was no protection last night, or that he is the bodyguard?

Well normally #1 parlays #2, but im still deciding if that holds true in a fozzie game....he revealed his role when he had 0 votes againt, 2 on others...he didnt need to reveal bodyguard if he is in fact that role, so its odd. Im waiting for a few more people to show up and hopefully someone else will back me up in my claims. If not, i shall go the road alone.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Lathum

well I guess that depends on your take. hoops is saying that he didn't protect anyone last night, so what are you challenging him on?

Thats not what he said. He said that he did protect someone, but doesnt want to say who so as to not make them vulnerable tonight. He said if I understood him right that his protecting that person didn't stop an attack, and that whatever happened last night, the lack of a kill was not due to his protection.

I could be wrong, but thats what I interpreted his statements as

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Thats not what he said. He said that he did protect someone, but doesnt want to say who so as to not make them vulnerable tonight. He said if I understood him right that his protecting that person didn't stop an attack, and that whatever happened last night, the lack of a kill was not due to his protection.

I could be wrong, but thats what I interpreted his statements as

This is where i have gigantic problems with last night, but im still deciding if hoops is just oblivious or lying.

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Since I have not had any positive results in my two evenings at the post, I can assure you that last nights non-action was not the result of a successful protect.

[Lathum]

that's what I meant, when I say protect I mean sucsessfully protect and stop a kill...

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

Well normally #1 parlays #2, but im still deciding if that holds true in a fozzie game....he revealed his role when he had 0 votes againt, 2 on others...he didnt need to reveal bodyguard if he is in fact that role, so its odd. Im waiting for a few more people to show up and hopefully someone else will back me up in my claims. If not, i shall go the road alone.

I think it's possible hoops is being a little bit tricky, but if he's playing this the way I think he's playing this, he's on our side. That is, the side of the wolves. Do you think it's odd that nobody has yet claimed to be the seer? Or even really hinted at the fact?

[Alan T]

On another random note, Lathum, Blade and I all joined FoFC in the month of december. Just on different years!

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

*giggles madly as he types up the result for the morning*


Oooh.. the game's gotten interesting

Wanted to requote this from before night actions...does that sound like the bodyguard missed last night? Fozzie all but tells us people are picking the same people(i didnt know if it was seer or whoever)...now, i think i know, and it contradicts what hoops has said

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

I think it's possible hoops is being a little bit tricky, but if he's playing this the way I think he's playing this, he's on our side. That is, the side of the wolves. Do you think it's odd that nobody has yet claimed to be the seer? Or even really hinted at the fact?

No, I dont find it odd at all. I actually prefer the seer not give hints for the badguys to pick up on until they have enough valuable information for us to go on that its worth losing them. Right now I'm assuming we have between 2-4 bad guys depending if last night there was a conversion. If our seer can pick out 2 of them for us it would help alot.

I generally figure if a seer is going to give hints for his own side, the bad guys are smart enough to pick up on them too. Then its a matter of time before you lose them.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

I think it's possible hoops is being a little bit tricky, but if he's playing this the way I think he's playing this, he's on our side. That is, the side of the wolves. Do you think it's odd that nobody has yet claimed to be the seer? Or even really hinted at the fact?

Not at all, id prefer they not hint in anyway until they have 2 humans/wizards in the bag. And since hoops might be one today, if he knows hoops is bad i hope he stays clear of this debate

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

Not at all, id prefer they not hint in anyway until they have 2 humans/wizards in the bag. And since hoops might be one today, if he knows hoops is bad i hope he stays clear of this debate

Heh, crossposting is fun!

[path12]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

I think it's possible hoops is being a little bit tricky, but if he's playing this the way I think he's playing this, he's on our side. That is, the side of the wolves. Do you think it's odd that nobody has yet claimed to be the seer? Or even really hinted at the fact?

I don't think it's odd. I don't want the seer to reveal until they get a hit.

[path12]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Heh, crossposting is fun!

Yep! I think it's worth the reveal for just one bad guy though. Any info that can help us eliminate 1/3 of the enemy is worth the result, plus the obligatory one day protection by the bodyguard which could get us one more.

Personal preference, I guess.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by path12

Yep! I think it's worth the reveal for just one bad guy though. Any info that can help us eliminate 1/3 of the enemy is worth the result, plus the obligatory one day protection by the bodyguard which could get us one more.

Personal preference, I guess.

As of now though, i dont think we need a seer to lock up a bad guy today. Im becoming quite positive either hoops or cronin are bad...last night i would have said cronin 100% after i got my night action back, but now hoops has pushed his way in

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

As of now though, i dont think we need a seer to lock up a bad guy today. Im becoming quite positive either hoops or cronin are bad...last night i would have said cronin 100% after i got my night action back, but now hoops has pushed his way in

Why Cronin? Yesterday when I questioned how he was all over the place, you defended him. I don't really see that he has done much else since then to be any more suspicious than he was yesterday. Right now I actually have 3-4 people I would pick before him. I also don't really agree with you on hoops either though. I think I am missing some clue or something that you picked up on. I don't think you and I are on the same page on folks right now.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by Alan T

I think I am missing some clue or something that you picked up on

Thats the key, i said in my night action. I was HEAVILY involved in what took place last night...but its a fozzie game, where as normally i would have hung hoops by now, i have to think things through.

[st.cronin]

Saldana has more or less vouched for me, so if you think I'm bad, you have to assume saldana is bad as well. And blade, you're one of the few guys I trust - you're just below Anxiety on my list.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Saldana has more or less vouched for me, so if you think I'm bad, you have to assume saldana is bad as well. And blade, you're one of the few guys I trust - you're just below Anxiety on my list.

I understand he has, but i also dont believe(as proven by head wizard and wolf boss) that tie-breaker roles are unique to our side. The fact you have one is why saldana seems to vouch for you, but i dont see that making you a wolf. Again, its a fozzie game, you have to think crazy

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

I understand he has, but i also dont believe(as proven by head wizard and wolf boss) that tie-breaker roles are unique to our side. The fact you have one is why saldana seems to vouch for you, but i dont see that making you a wolf. Again, its a fozzie game, you have to think crazy

That's a good point - I'm not going to spend a lot of energy trying to convince you that I'm a wolf right now. I assume that my role passes to somebody else if I get lynched, anyway, so I'm not a critical role. I'm trying to think up a couple of questions that hoops could answer that would clear him 100% in my mind.

[hoopsguy]

OK, just wanted to clear up what seem like some misconceptions.

1.) I did protect someone last night
2.) I sent Fozzie a follow-up PM to make sure there was not any kind of info that I should have based on that protect - nothing
3.) I did protect Cronin on Night 1

I came out with the role because it helps us interpret what happened last night. I came out with it early because it gives someone time if they want to challenge me on this role (don't think it is +EV for their side, but ...) If there is no confrontation then the lack thereof should solidly establish me as a wolf here. Which, after almost getting voted off the island last night, has some importance to me as well.

[hoopsguy]

In terms of my role, I expect that I can use the title since Cronin has already set that precedent. But just to be safe I'll hold off on it for a little while to give Fozzie a chance to respond.

If I encounter an attacker I will drive them off. I have not encountered an attacker up to this point.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

If there is no confrontation then the lack thereof should solidly establish me as a wolf here

Hello, my name in confrontation. How are you today?

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

OK, just wanted to clear up what seem like some misconceptions.

1.) I did protect someone last night
2.) I sent Fozzie a follow-up PM to make sure there was not any kind of info that I should have based on that protect - nothing
3.) I did protect Cronin on Night 1

I came out with the role because it helps us interpret what happened last night. I came out with it early because it gives someone time if they want to challenge me on this role (don't think it is +EV for their side, but ...) If there is no confrontation then the lack thereof should solidly establish me as a wolf here. Which, after almost getting voted off the island last night, has some importance to me as well.

hoops - your character's title, can you give me the first letter of it? I suspect I know what it is, but I don't want to give it up to the wizards if possible.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

Thats the key, i said in my night action. I was HEAVILY involved in what took place last night...but its a fozzie game, where as normally i would have hung hoops by now, i have to think things through.

So basically you are saying that its your word versus Hoops's here and you don't feel its worth it to provide any more information to help us decide between the two right now? I don't necessarily like that set of options here since all we have to base our votes on are the perceived facts as best we know them.

I mean its a convienant place for him to throw out the bodyguard role with seemingly no night kill attempt, but I have to believe if he was not the bodyguard, someone would come up and say they are it. From what I understand you aren't saying you are the bodyguard instead of hoops, you just are saying to blindly have faith in your belief?

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by Alan T

So basically you are saying that its your word versus Hoops's here and you don't feel its worth it to provide any more information to help us decide between the two right now? I don't necessarily like that set of options here since all we have to base our votes on are the perceived facts as best we know them.

I mean its a convienant place for him to throw out the bodyguard role with seemingly no night kill attempt, but I have to believe if he was not the bodyguard, someone would come up and say they are it. From what I understand you aren't saying you are the bodyguard instead of hoops, you just are saying to blindly have faith in your belief?

Not at all, i have my own facts i can use to prove my statements true. The only problem with my facts is they involve names, and is it my right to reveal other players and potentially get them killed? I dont think so, so i wait awhile to see if anyone wants to support me, and if they chose not to then i shall do my thing. But i will not go out and give up my fellow wolves hunting what i believe to be a henchman in hoopsguy.

[Tyrith]

Blade, I really think either hoops or cronin is bad too, but I sure wish you could give us more hard evidence...

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by Tyrith

Blade, I really think either hoops or cronin is bad too, but I sure wish you could give us more hard evidence...

Do none of my fellow wolves have the same info i do?