Battlestar Galactica Season 4.5 - The end is near!

[Raiders Army]

We watched The Last Frakking Special last night. Good stuff on there for us since we're "new" to the universe. My wife made the comment last night that we just started the series last May/June and caught up in February.

[ISiddiqui]

Last Frakking Special was pretty cool, I have to say. I especially liked the casting part of it. Lawless, using the rest of the crew's suspicion about her, was brilliant.

[timmynausea]

We got caught up on season 4 (4.0 to present) over the past few weeks in time for the finale. I never would've dreamed BSG would be such a good show. I remember being pretty skeptical on giving it a chance back in '05 or so and thinking it was 50/50 that I'd watch past the mini-series or maybe the first couple of episodes. I was wrong, of course, and liked it immediately, but this last season is really raising the bar for scifi/epic/myth shows and movies. Can't wait for the finale.

[Bad-example]

This show has been a pleasant diversion but I really can't believe how many people think it is so very great. I for one will be happy when it is finished. Unfortunately, the next show will no doubt suffer from the same (apparently invisible to most) flaws.

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by Bad-example

This show has been a pleasant diversion but I really can't believe how many people think it is so very great. I for one will be happy when it is finished. Unfortunately, the next show will no doubt suffer from the same (apparently invisible to most) flaws.

Different folks, different strokes.

[Bad-example]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

Different folks, different strokes.

Yeah, yeah. Still, this show's fanatical following is a real head scratcher for me.

[ISiddiqui]

I find Joss Whedon's fanatical following head scratching... but like said, different folks, different strokes.

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by Bad-example

Yeah, yeah. Still, this show's fanatical following is a real head scratcher for me.

Some reasons for the following:

30-40 somethings who grew up with the original and loved it as well, see this as a huge jump forward and BONUS its got an actual plot =)

Its not JUST a sci-fi show, its a very solidly handled drama as well.

They took the best ideas from many different sci-fi series, mythology, spaceships, war, relationship, human condition,and the generic fear of the unknown and rolled it into one very superior special effects program which MOST sci-fi series tended to fail at at some point.


Same sort of thing with Whedon's Firefly/Serenity they took lots of lessons from the past and avoided the pitfalls. It just grabs people.



I'm actually interested to hear what people think are the real flaws? I see a few but consider them extremely minor.

[ISiddiqui]

Also don't forget that this is a drama set in a sci-fi setting, but a darling of critics the likes of which no sci-fi show has ever been. Time Magazine named it their #1 show on TV a few years back and it won a Peabody.

So it is something that is acknowledged to be of high quality.

[Bad-example]

Originally Posted by RendeR

I'm actually interested to hear what people think are the real flaws? I see a few but consider them extremely minor.

Not the first (or second) time I have listed the biggest flaws. The worst:

The Hummer. One episode had a full on Hummer, complete with rectangular metal license plate and standard headlights.

The Piano. Invented about 300 years ago, any idea how one got aboard an interstellar spacecraft? Right, it couldn't.

The Clothing. They are going to have to come up with a tremendous finale to explain how contemporary fashions from Macy's got onto Galactica. Men in silk neckties and women in stockings and skirts. Business suits. All civilian clothes are clearly modern Earth garb. Will they try and explain it or ignore it, basically admitting they didn't have the budget to do a quality job of costuming?

There are a bunch more. Hell, in the pilot, Rosalynn's seat on her presidential shuttle is clearly a modern day recliner, complete with side handle for reclining.

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by Bad-example

Not the first (or second) time I have listed the biggest flaws. The worst:

The Hummer. One episode had a full on Hummer, complete with rectangular metal license plate and standard headlights.

The Piano. Invented about 300 years ago, any idea how one got aboard an interstellar spacecraft? Right, it couldn't.

The Clothing. They are going to have to come up with a tremendous finale to explain how contemporary fashions from Macy's got onto Galactica. Men in silk neckties and women in stockings and skirts. Business suits. All civilian clothes are clearly modern Earth garb. Will they try and explain it or ignore it, basically admitting they didn't have the budget to do a quality job of costuming?

There are a bunch more. Hell, in the pilot, Rosalynn's seat on her presidential shuttle is clearly a modern day recliner, complete with side handle for reclining.

SO your only argument is that a "human-type" race, calling themselves humans, on a show with no direct link to Our reality in any way, is depicted with items and clothing that we use day to day? You're assuming they're looking for OUR earth, that they're somehow connected to OUR reality. The show never states that at all.

I think that problem is yours, not the shows. You are telling me that a technologically advanced race would not invent a large boxed string instrument?

They can't invent an armored fighting vehicle?

They can't create modernistic clothing and fashion styles?

Why must you require they be completely and totally alien to what you know and experience? Why can't you as the viewer remove reality from the show you experience?

As I said above, this isn't the shows flaw, this is your inability to step outside your own existance and into a different one without drawing comparisons.

They drive a military truck, they play a musical instrument, they dress nice.

Its not a real tough sell unless you make it one.


Many apologies if this came out sounding rude at all, I do not intend it so, my kids are making me furious right now and I think it may have rolled over a bit. I'm just trying to state my opinion of the stated issue.

[SFL Cat]

This show gives me a headache. Carry on.

[Bad-example]

Maybe they will come up with a finale that explains all the apparent errors. But honestly, if you can't see how out of place a modern piano and contemporary fashions are on this show, I guess my point is just lost on you.

Rock on.

Originally Posted by RendeR

SO your only argument is that a "human-type" race, calling themselves humans, on a show with no direct link to Our reality in any way, is depicted with items and clothing that we use day to day? You're assuming they're looking for OUR earth, that they're somehow connected to OUR reality. The show never states that at all.

I think that problem is yours, not the shows. You are telling me that a technologically advanced race would not invent a large boxed string instrument?

They can't invent an armored fighting vehicle?

They can't create modernistic clothing and fashion styles?

Why must you require they be completely and totally alien to what you know and experience? Why can't you as the viewer remove reality from the show you experience?

As I said above, this isn't the shows flaw, this is your inability to step outside your own existance and into a different one without drawing comparisons.

They drive a military truck, they play a musical instrument, they dress nice.

Its not a real tough sell unless you make it one.


Many apologies if this came out sounding rude at all, I do not intend it so, my kids are making me furious right now and I think it may have rolled over a bit. I'm just trying to state my opinion of the stated issue.

[flounder]

I know what you mean man. I was watching the Tudors and Henry VIII's cloak was sewn with an obvious overlock stitch. HELLO!!!11! The overlock stitch wasn't invented until 1877 by Joseph M. Merrow and the Marrow Machine Company. UNLESS YOUR COSTUMES ARE HAND STITCHED BY FRAKKING 8 YEAR OLDS DYING FROM THE BLACK PLAGUE, YOUR SHOW SUCKS SHOWTIME!!!111!!

[SnowMan]

They should all talk in an alien language. No subtitles allowed, after all, we wouldn't know the language and couldn't translate it.

[flounder]

So they should talk like people on Earth? Clearly an alien race would have some sort of telepathy. They should just stare at each other all the time.

Also, what's with the actors? They are clearly people from 21st century Earth. Until they cast some sort of energy being from planet Zogthnar, I think I'll pass.

[Bad-example]

[Raiders Army]

Originally Posted by Bad-example

Not the first (or second) time I have listed the biggest flaws. The worst:

The Hummer. One episode had a full on Hummer, complete with rectangular metal license plate and standard headlights.

The Piano. Invented about 300 years ago, any idea how one got aboard an interstellar spacecraft? Right, it couldn't.

The Clothing. They are going to have to come up with a tremendous finale to explain how contemporary fashions from Macy's got onto Galactica. Men in silk neckties and women in stockings and skirts. Business suits. All civilian clothes are clearly modern Earth garb. Will they try and explain it or ignore it, basically admitting they didn't have the budget to do a quality job of costuming?

There are a bunch more. Hell, in the pilot, Rosalynn's seat on her presidential shuttle is clearly a modern day recliner, complete with side handle for reclining.

I can agree with this and have thought it many times as well. I haven't let that suspension of disbelief let me not enjoy the show though.

I was thinking earlier this year that perhaps this civilization has made periodic contact with Earth and thus has given Earth the same things they had.

That was dashed away when we found out Earth was the Cylon's 13th colony.

Whatever. It doesn't stop me from enjoying the show.

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by Bad-example

Maybe they will come up with a finale that explains all the apparent errors. But honestly, if you can't see how out of place a modern piano and contemporary fashions are on this show, I guess my point is just lost on you.

Rock on.

You're not trying to see my PoV here, while I'm at least understanding yours.

You're saying "how could they have our specific stuff if they're so far away or so ahead or behind our reality time-wise. it doesn't make any sense and its stupid"

What I'm trying to explain is that there is no connection, nothing directed or implied so far in this show that links it to our world or our reality in any way. When you seperate the two entirely its pretty simple to see the piano, the hummer and the clothing as what they are intended to be, representations. They weren't driving a Hummer, they were driving a military truck. The show simply used a Hummer as an obvious representation.

Now if you have some reason to believe there IS a direct link to us and our time and our world, something perhaps I haven't seen or read yet that eludes to them finding US in the finale? Please let me know. Lacking that or some really ridiculous timewarp schizm in the finale (which would indeed ruin things for me) I can't see or understand why it bothers you so much? I'd like to, but as you say it seems difficult to explain?

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by Bad-example

As obnoxious as those posts were they make a valid point. Those are simply extrapolations of your position taken to the extreme. If the piano and hummer bother you, why doesn't the ships themselves or the fact that they breathe oxygen or that they're bipedal?

I guess its a matter of where do you draw the line? I don't see why the line matters if you're paying attention to the story itself and not just the props.

[Bad-example]

Originally Posted by RendeR

As obnoxious as those posts were they make a valid point.

No.

[timmynausea]

I hate to pile on, but when you said "flaws" I assumed you were talking about plot holes or inconsistencies - some complaint with the story. I don't see any of the things you've mentioned as flaws even slightly, though I guess I could imagine the hummer bothering some.

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

I can agree with this and have thought it many times as well. I haven't let that suspension of disbelief let me not enjoy the show though.

I think any good sci-fi show/movie has to make some sort of concessions like this for "do-ability". If you have everything be completely alien, then you risk making immersion into the show (i.e. understanding what is what, intrinsically) very difficult for the audience.

In my opinion this is part of what makes good sci-fi hard to do, visually. If you decide to go all "alien", then you need to make sure you have a certain consistency within that "alien-ness".

Arguably, though, this is one of BSG's strengths. It makes the day-to-day setup of its internal universe very familiar to the audience, and then places a wildly fictional narrative on top of that.

[flere-imsaho]

dola - I'm skeptical that they're going to resolve all the unanswered questions in the 2-hour finale. The setup for the finale looks like it's going to totally revolve around an assault on the Colony. If that's the case, I don't see how a lot of these questions get resolved without some deus ex machina (presumably in humanoid form) bringing things to a screeching halt for the purpose of exposition. Which, honestly, would be a bit boring.

Moore is on record elsewhere as saying that while many answers will be tied up in the finale, they wrote the finale more with a view towards the characters and less about closing the plot lines. In fact, he's basically said he doesn't care about tying up all the plot lines. So....

Unanswered questions (for me):

So, who is this Daniel guy?

Was Earth really Earth?

Does the BSG universe exist in our universe? If so, when were we (or will be?)

Who/what are the "head" characters?

What is Starbuck?

What's behind the "song" that's led them around the galaxy and to "Earth" and clearly isn't done leaving behind clues?

Will Galen ever learn that Tori airlocked Cally? Will he care?

And I'm sure there are plenty of others....

[Bad-example]

Originally Posted by timmynausea

I hate to pile on, but when you said "flaws" I assumed you were talking about plot holes or inconsistencies - some complaint with the story. I don't see any of the things you've mentioned as flaws even slightly, though I guess I could imagine the hummer bothering some.

You don't see the existence of an 88 ivory key piano as out of place?

Honestly, I envy people like RA that can notice large inconsistencies in a show or movie and not roll their eyes and fart in the general direction of the screen.

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by Bad-example

No.

This doesn't make it so. your objections are no more valid or less valid than those extreme examples, they mean the same thing.

Please, I'm not trying to be antagonistic, I'm honestly wanting to understand why representations of things are so important, help me understand why it bothers you.

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by Bad-example

You don't see the existence of an 88 ivory key piano as out of place?

Honestly, I envy people like RA that can notice large inconsistencies in a show or movie and not roll their eyes and fart in the general direction of the screen.

What I'm trying to grasp is how these things are "inconsistent"? why is a musical instrument out of place? The piano itself is irrelevant to the story, the hummer was irrelevant to the story the clothes are totally irrelevant to the story.

THIS is the root of the problem. I'm trying to understand why you're so stuck on "things" and not focused on the story itself? I'm just confused by it I guess.

[RendeR]

Sorry if I seem like a pit bull shaking a bone here...I'm also posting in the Pope is a dipshit thread and its frustrating to discuss obvious facts with religious intent. I guess I see this discussion at least as one where I can come to grasp the actual meaning behind the other side's opinion =)

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by Bad-example

You don't see the existence of an 88 ivory key piano as out of place?

To be honest, I thought the creation of a bar in the first place was kind of out of place but, whatever. I figured the piano was merely a plot device and just ran with it.

[SFL Cat]

Originally Posted by RendeR

Some reasons for the following:

30-40 somethings who grew up with the original and loved it as well, see this as a huge jump forward and BONUS its got an actual plot =)

Couldn't disagree more. I'd still take the original, cheese and all, over this one. The only thing I'd give this series hands down over the original is the calibre of acting, and even then, only certain individuals. Special effects are generally better too, although if you can't top the ones in the original series 30 years later, you might as well hang it up.

Its not JUST a sci-fi show, its a very solidly handled drama as well.

It has sci-fi trappings, but at its heart, it isn't really sci-fi IMO. Not really drama either. More like a melodramatic soap opera set in space.

Same sort of thing with Whedon's Firefly/Serenity they took lots of lessons from the past and avoided the pitfalls. It just grabs people.

At least Firefly had likeable characters that you cared about. If the entire fleet had been blown up in the pilot, I wouldn't have cared.

I'm actually interested to hear what people think are the real flaws? I see a few but consider them extremely minor.

I'm by no means a regular viewer, but here we go...

why would a distant civilization even have stuff that looked remotely like our stuff. And it drive me nuts whenever I see something that is clearly developed on Earth. They writers take the time to think up games that we do not have but they all dress just like my mom and dad!

We have a civilization that has FTL and anti-radiation medication, but can't create their own water nor have a cure for cancer.

The original show was much better at being sci-fi. The new show seems to be all about dysfunctional relationships, what most people today like to call "drama," and they can't even create a new mythos for the characters. It's a mini-United States with terrorist infiltration problems...a freakin' Jack Ryan novel in space, only the enemy are angsty teenagers in sexy bodies desperate to prove themselves by getting laid and pregnant by the enemy.

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

To be honest, I thought the creation of a bar in the first place was kind of out of place but, whatever. I figured the piano was merely a plot device and just ran with it.

Now here I can say I agree. I wasn't a fan of the bar. My biggest reasoning "where the frak is all the grain coming from for the liquor?" I don't recall seeing an agro ship in the various fleet shots and the only one that might have been so was blown out of the sky over New Caprica.

[flere-imsaho]

Yeah, the limitless supply of alcohol in general has been a bit of an eyebrow-raiser.

[Bad-example]

Originally Posted by RendeR

THIS is the root of the problem. I'm trying to understand why you're so stuck on "things" and not focused on the story itself? I'm just confused by it I guess.

I am just one of those people that can't silence his inner critic. Shit that clearly doesn't belong bothers me.

Remember the Simpsons episode when the family is watching a Zorro movie? Poor Lisa notices huge inconsistencies, and when she tries to tell Bart he replies, "Quiet! Here come the ninjas!"

That is the way I feel. I am Lisa in a room full of Barts.

Again, I envy those that can shut off the inner critical voice. That is my issue. But it doesn't change the bad art direction BSG has consistently displayed.

[timmynausea]

Originally Posted by Bad-example

You don't see the existence of an 88 ivory key piano as out of place?

Couldn't you come up with these questions for every scifi project? Concessions have to be made to tell these kinds of stories - some for financial reasons (building a new stringed instrument and/or vehicle would've been much more expensive and time consuming.) Others are just for reasons of making the story accessible - Luke Skywalker has a fairly common, biblical first name and speaks English for the audience's sake.

It's clear to me that a big part of BSG is that the characters are human and do have so much in common with us, so I really have no problem whatsoever with the things you've mentioned. Of all things to not believe - including flesh and blood robots that are biologically identical to humans, have free will and can (could) respawn endlessly, FTL drives, a woman President, etc. - it's the invention of the piano that you can't believe?

[Bad-example]

Originally Posted by timmynausea

Couldn't you come up with these questions for every scifi project? Concessions have to be made to tell these kinds of stories - some for financial reasons (building a new stringed instrument and/or vehicle would've been much more expensive and time consuming.)

Yes, they lacked the budget to do a proper job. So they went cheap and that shows. Most other series avoid giant gaffes like that.

Originally Posted by timmynausea

Of all things to not believe - including flesh and blood robots that are biologically identical to humans, have free will and can (could) respawn endlessly, FTL drives, a woman President, etc. - it's the invention of the piano that you can't believe?

The piano was invented just 300 years ago.The idea that someone centuries and light years removed from Earth also invented the piano is just ridiculous. Keyboard instruments of some kind, sure. But an exact duplicate of a modern piano, complete with black and white ivories...no.

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by SFL Cat

Couldn't disagree more. I'd still take the original, cheese and all, over this one. The only thing I'd give this series hands down over the original is the calibre of acting, and even then, only certain individuals. Special effects are generally better too, although if you can't top the ones in the original series 30 years later, you might as well hang it up.



It has sci-fi trappings, but at its heart, it isn't really sci-fi IMO. Not really drama either. More like a melodramatic soap opera set in space.



At least Firefly had likeable characters that you cared about. If the entire fleet had been blown up in the pilot, I wouldn't have cared.



I'm by no means a regular viewer, but here we go...

why would a distant civilization even have stuff that looked remotely like our stuff. And it drive me nuts whenever I see something that is clearly developed on Earth. They writers take the time to think up games that we do not have but they all dress just like my mom and dad!

We have a civilization that has FTL and anti-radiation medication, but can't create their own water nor have a cure for cancer.

The original show was much better at being sci-fi. The new show seems to be all about dysfunctional relationships, what most people today like to call "drama," and they can't even create a new mythos for the characters. It's a mini-United States with terrorist infiltration problems...a freakin' Jack Ryan novel in space, only the enemy are angsty teenagers in sexy bodies desperate to prove themselves by getting laid and pregnant by the enemy.

Interesting points, I admit. Its fascinating to see different views on specific items:

The effects are a thousand times better than the old show. If you disagree with that we might as well stop now because its not worth discussing anything else if you can't agree with that.

The Original show was badly written, badly directed, badly produced and the acting lagged far behind all of these things. Even Lorne Green, whom I loved dearly as an actor, was terrible.

Drama, sci-fi, melodrama, take your pick if you don't like the characters and can't relate to them somehow then its not the show for you. I can't see a lot of flaw in the characters with the glaring exception of Geata. They ruined what I thought was a fantastic character there. So I'll give you a point for characters (Geata and throw in Zarek, god I hated Zarek)

The "they have X and Y but not Z and T" bit I find rather specious. We have nuclear energy and can travel in space, but we can't create water or cure cancer either. Every civilization has their boons and their problems. Theirs are just what they are.

The mythos and government items are straight from the original show. You can't laude something in the old series and shit on it in the new one when they are the exact same things.

The original BSG, Star Trek and Star Wars were all the same as this series as far as "Being Sci-Fi" go. Science Fiction trappings around the same angst ridden melodramatic trappings that we live with every day. THe original that you find so superior was precisely the same as this one when it came to the stories. All about relationships (Apollo losing his wife, Starbucks womanizing, Adama and Apollo's father son relationship) its no different now than it was then. This version of teh series takes the storyline a lot more seriously and focuses more specifically on real issues in our day, but other than the tone of the show they are both the same on that score.

And then we come back to B-E's issue, appearances. I don;t understand why the "land Rover" from the original series is any better than the military truck (aka the Hummer) used on Caprica? There was a Piano on board the Rising star in the original show, it was an electronic multi-board used in techno-pop music, but its was very clearly something from right here in the real world.

I guess I'm still at a loss on that one. they're just "things" they are there to represent a tool or whatever they need to in the show. the "things" would only be badly chosen if they didn;t fit the "styling" of the scene. The Hummer was a ground truck, they were a group of resistance fighters who looted an old army base, what did you want them to find? Landspeeders?

Maybe I'm just more easily carried off by a storyline than most. *shrug* I'll stop now and hope to see something that helps me see your PoV better.

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by timmynausea

Couldn't you come up with these questions for every scifi project? Concessions have to be made to tell these kinds of stories - some for financial reasons (building a new stringed instrument and/or vehicle would've been much more expensive and time consuming.) Others are just for reasons of making the story accessible - Luke Skywalker has a fairly common, biblical first name and speaks English for the audience's sake.

It's clear to me that a big part of BSG is that the characters are human and do have so much in common with us, so I really have no problem whatsoever with the things you've mentioned. Of all things to not believe - including flesh and blood robots that are biologically identical to humans, have free will and can (could) respawn endlessly, FTL drives, a woman President, etc. - it's the invention of the piano that you can't believe?

I think this is his real point, its supposed to be a fictional universe so the REAL items are what is out of place to him. Its like creating a fictional FOF league but tossing in Butkis, Manning and Taylor to fill out some positions.

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by Bad-example

Yes, they lacked the budget to do a proper job. So they went cheap and that shows. Most other series avoid giant gaffes like that.



The piano was invented just 300 years ago.The idea that someone centuries and light years removed from Earth also invented the piano is just ridiculous. Keyboard instruments of some kind, sure. But an exact duplicate of a modern piano, complete with black and white ivories...no.

This is where you lose credibility. Have you ever watched Sci fi shows before? The cereal box tricorder from Star Trek the orgiinal series? the aforementioned techno-keyboard from the original BSG? The Baseball and baseball game on DS9? Every single series has this exact same issue. You can't piss on this series for something every single one has done. If the things they were "skimping" on were really important to the story then I might be able to agree a litle bit, but nothing that you've pointed out has ANYthing to do with the real storyline. They're all totally secondary to the scenes as they happen. If the Base ship was play by two space shuttles glued bottom to bottom I could see an issue, thats a major item in the show. The clothes they wear? what real difference does it make? If they were wearing khaki shorts and tropical shirts while flying the vipers I might see an issue. Why does the general civilian attire make any real difference?

[Bad-example]

Originally Posted by RendeR

This is where you lose credibility. Have you ever watched Sci fi shows before? The cereal box tricorder from Star Trek the orgiinal series? the aforementioned techno-keyboard from the original BSG? The Baseball and baseball game on DS9? Every single series has this exact same issue.

The tricorder? Cheaply made, yes. But it wasn't a modern day tricorder somehow out of place centuries in the future. It was just a cheaply made prop.

The techno-keyboard? Agreed.

The baseball? Not out of place at all. It was an antique.

Originally Posted by RendeR

If the things they were "skimping" on were really important to the story then I might be able to agree a litle bit, but nothing that you've pointed out has ANYthing to do with the real storyline. They're all totally secondary to the scenes as they happen.

Not sure what your point here is. The piano clearly is out of place on Galactica. What does "important to the story" have to do with bad art direction?

Originally Posted by RendeR

If the Base ship was play by two space shuttles glued bottom to bottom I could see an issue, thats a major item in the show. The clothes they wear? what real difference does it make? If they were wearing khaki shorts and tropical shirts while flying the vipers I might see an issue. Why does the general civilian attire make any real difference?

In 20 or 30 years, when current fashions and hair styles have gone out of style, this show will look even more silly.

[SFL Cat]

Originally Posted by RendeR

This is where you lose credibility. Have you ever watched Sci fi shows before? The cereal box tricorder from Star Trek the orgiinal series? the aforementioned techno-keyboard from the original BSG? The Baseball and baseball game on DS9? Every single series has this exact same issue. You can't piss on this series for something every single one has done.....

I think you're short-changing a lot of these old shows. Yeah they were done on the cheap, but you can't discount the influence they had on our culture. In particular, Star Trek's (TOS) technological ideas, gadgets and art design inspired a whole generation of engineers and scientists. Most beds in hospital ER's resemble the old sickbay beds in Star Trek, with grouped monitors showing all the patient's vitals at a glance. I read where the US Navy sent experts to study the bridge design of the Enterprise, and incorporated several elements of that TV set into the next-generation of shipboard CIC centers. I saw an interview with the guy who designed the flip cover cell phone and said he was a die-hard Trekker.

Even the original BSG's hit-and-miss art direction was hands-down more imaginative than NuBSG. Caprica's Pyramid City-scape; and those freakin' AWESOME King Tut flight helmets. I really enjoyed the old show's "Chariots-of-the-Gods" approach to its art direction.

The clothes they wear? what real difference does it make? If they were wearing khaki shorts and tropical shirts while flying the vipers I might see an issue. Why does the general civilian attire make any real difference?

I think using easily recognizable everyday and, in some cases, obsolete items as props in a future society that is supposedly distantly remote from us, not to mention seeing the characters wearing current fashions, just jars my suspension of disbelief. Again, why set it in the BSG universe? Just set it on Earth at some point in the future, and at least we have a point of reference.

[RendeR]

I guess I just can't see why such tiny and really unimportant things make some folks so virulently against the show. As I said beforethe props don't make the story.When I see the bar scenes I see the characters trying to relax in a "crew's lounge" type situation. The fact that its made to look like a dive bar with a piano is really irrelevant. Props are stand ins, mere proxies for whatever our minds really want them to be. it allows the viewer to use their own imagination instead of being tube fed every little detail.

I guess I look at like the tabletop wargames I play. In Warhammer you build models to represent your army and if you want to use something you don't have you find something similar and "proxy" it. Sure its a model of an M1-Abrams Tank, but in the game it represents a predator annihilator. I don't "see" the Abrams, I see the Pred. Just like with BSG. I "see" civilian clothes, and a military truck and a musical instrument and a conduction toaster etc etc etc

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by RendeR

I guess I just can't see why such tiny and really unimportant things make some folks so virulently against the show. As I said beforethe props don't make the story.When I see the bar scenes I see the characters trying to relax in a "crew's lounge" type situation. The fact that its made to look like a dive bar with a piano is really irrelevant. Props are stand ins, mere proxies for whatever our minds really want them to be. it allows the viewer to use their own imagination instead of being tube fed every little detail.

I guess I look at like the tabletop wargames I play. In Warhammer you build models to represent your army and if you want to use something you don't have you find something similar and "proxy" it. Sure its a model of an M1-Abrams Tank, but in the game it represents a predator annihilator. I don't "see" the Abrams, I see the Pred. Just like with BSG. I "see" civilian clothes, and a military truck and a musical instrument and a conduction toaster etc etc etc

I hope Bad doesn't go ballistic about the limo that Baltar was riding in the past episode

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

I hope Bad doesn't go ballistic about the limo that Baltar was riding in the past episode

I would expect him to. If he doesn't then he's just nitpicking on the other stuff and his opinion is shyte. Its all about where you draw a line I guess. As I noted above, I have the "disbelief issue" with the unlimited liquor supply but I also understand that the booze in and of itself is pretty irrelevant to the story so I ignore it.

[Bad-example]

Originally Posted by RendeR

I would expect him to. If he doesn't then he's just nitpicking on the other stuff and his opinion is shyte.

Well, a limo is equally out of place. So, I guess I am saved from have a "shyte" opinion. Whew.

Things that can't logically exist in a show or movie detract from my enjoyment. I know at the very least you are able to grasp that concept. At least I thought so.

[RendeR]

There isn't anything illogical about a luxury vehicle, a military truck or a musical instrument either, but you insist that no other society could ever come up with such things.

But you know, I'm the illogical one, right? =)


The one thing I will give you about the piano though, its not something anyone would have saved from the hollocaust in teh Colonies. It would have been put out an arilock to make room for refugees. So in the essence that they wouldn't have KEPT such a thing, I'll give in on the piano bit =)

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

It's certainly a valid opinion to hold, though it must suck not being able to watch any shows that aren't 100 percent realistic. What does that leave you? The Wire perhaps, though I'm sure one could find problems there too.

[Bad-example]

Originally Posted by RendeR

There isn't anything illogical about a luxury vehicle, a military truck or a musical instrument either, but you insist that no other society could ever come up with such things.

Ok, play time is over. Go find an ant hill to poke with a stick.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

Moore is on record elsewhere as saying that while many answers will be tied up in the finale, they wrote the finale more with a view towards the characters and less about closing the plot lines. In fact, he's basically said he doesn't care about tying up all the plot lines.

Which I don't really have a problem with. The series finales that have bothered me in the past are ones that try to answer every little thing. Sometimes life is messy and we don't get all the answers or it is open ended on them...

That being said, I think we are going to find out what Starbuck is.


Oh, and bad example's "flaws" are utterly laughable. Basically any sci-fi has massive flaws then.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Which I don't really have a problem with. The series finales that have bothered me in the past are ones that try to answer every little thing. Sometimes life is messy and we don't get all the answers or it is open ended on them...

That being said, I think we are going to find out what Starbuck is.


Oh, and bad example's "flaws" are utterly laughable. Basically any sci-fi has massive flaws then.

I think we have been given more than enough clues to deduce what Starbuck is, but I agree that it will be verified in the last episode. Also, I don't expect the series finale to answer all of those questions either, but hope it will address some of them.

[ISiddiqui]

Just taking your list of questions and predicting what will be answered:

So, who is this Daniel guy?

He's either a placeholder because they messed up the numbering or Starbuck's father.

Was Earth really Earth?

I think Moore said it was... but I doubt we'll get anything definitive.

Does the BSG universe exist in our universe? If so, when were we (or will be?)

Probably not answered.

Who/what are the "head" characters?

Aroo?

What is Starbuck?

Definitely will be.

What's behind the "song" that's led them around the galaxy and to "Earth" and clearly isn't done leaving behind clues?

Maybe will be answered (more leaning towards yes, but wouldn't be surprised if it was left twisting in the wind).

Will Galen ever learn that Tori airlocked Cally? Will he care?

Would be interesting.