2017 NBA Offseason Thread

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

Or that the Cavs have been boasting about how good the deal was for them because Kyrie isn't really that good.

[larrymcg421]

Has this all been much ado about nothing?

Kyrie Irving Trade: Boston Celtics still have received no alternative request from Cavaliers (report) | masslive.com

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

Has this all been much ado about nothing?

Kyrie Irving Trade: Boston Celtics still have received no alternative request from Cavaliers (report) | masslive.com

It's not completely ado about nothing because the Cavs would've finalized the trade by now. Idk how much I trust a Boston Herald reporter who says his sources are on the Cavs side, but the report that Cleveland found nothing different in the physical than Boston had already sent over in medical reports is making them look pretty bad right now. But I suppose if you deal with Dan Gilbert you have to expect him to pull some petty or shady stuff at some point.

[Groundhog]

Still not sure Cleveland looks as bad as the team that traded (or tried to) the dude who played the day after his sister died.

[Vince, Pt. II]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

Still not sure Cleveland looks as bad as the team that traded (or tried to) the dude who played the day after his sister died.

Is this really something that many people think? That Boston looks bad because of this particular circumstance? Maybe I'm insensitive, but that changes my opinion of the Celtics exactly zero percent.

[SirFozzie]

I said it before, this is Belichickian in that someone who went above and beyond the call of duty gets jettisoned the second that Value < Skill.

It works for the Patriots, and I hope for the Celtics, but I especially hope it works out for Thomas.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by Vince, Pt. II

Is this really something that many people think? That Boston looks bad because of this particular circumstance? Maybe I'm insensitive, but that changes my opinion of the Celtics exactly zero percent.

It's been a big thing on my social media, which is pretty heavily leaning towards basketball players/fans. Lots of talk about loyalty.

I'm in the same boat as you personally, but it's definitely a thing.

[molson]

Would it have been disloyal for IT to leave as a free agent next season?

Isn't this a business? Or is a thing now that a team shouldn't trade a player unless they consent?

It's been a while since I've heard someone older than 12 criticize either a player or pro team for making a decision to further the goals of that player or team.

[Groundhog]

This is from other current and former players, and is more based around the player/team loyalty thing. I think especially post-KD leaving OKC. Then there was the IT jersey burning thing as well.

[molson]

The IT jersey burning thing seemed to be fans protesting the trade.

But regardless, it was drunk goobers on youtube. I could burn any jersey, make a video, and get a reddit thread going about horrible that fanbase is.

The players are human, so I can't judge their emotions. But from a fan perspective, I think it's weird to take a loyalty-side with respect any major pro team player transaction. Everybody's just trying to keep their job or get paid.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

This is from other current and former players, and is more based around the player/team loyalty thing. I think especially post-KD leaving OKC. Then there was the IT jersey burning thing as well.

Originally Posted by molson

The IT jersey burning thing seemed to be fans protesting the trade.

One tweeter with like 14 followers who might not even be a Celtics fan burns a K-Mart jersey & it's a thing? IT was loved by the fanbase & his teammates & it's annoying people want to imply otherwise based off a tweet from a nobody or a known liar like Chris Broussard throwing shade from his "multiple" nonexistent sources.

Why would KD choosing to leave his team for a better situation make players mad at a GM for moving on from a player for a better situation?

Originally Posted by Groundhog

Still not sure Cleveland looks as bad as the team that traded (or tried to) the dude who played the day after his sister died.

Seriously?
I love IT as a player & he seems like a good person too, but if we were offered LeBron, KD, or Steph Curry for IT you'd turn it down because he did his job after a personal tragedy?

If so, you're asking people in the wrong part of the country given the Patriots sociopathy & the Celtics being in a great spot because they traded Paul Pierce & KG before the whole league knew they were too old.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Why would KD choosing to leave his team for a better situation make players mad at a GM for moving on from a player for a better situation? Seriously?
I love IT as a player & he seems like a good person too, but if we were offered LeBron, KD, or Steph Curry for IT you'd turn it down because he did his job after a personal tragedy?

If so, you're asking people in the wrong part of the country given the Patriots sociopathy & the Celtics being in a great spot because they traded Paul Pierce & KG before the whole league knew they were too old.

Not arguing the logic behind it, just stating what I've seen from current/former players on IG/twitter.

Moot point anyway - Celts send a 2nd rounder, and the trade is finalized.

[bhlloy]

So you've essentially dragged the health of the centerpiece of the deal and the guy who is going to have to have a great season for you to compete this year and can walk for nothing after the season through the mud for the 58th overall pick in 2020? Real smart.

Gilbert really is an awful owner who should be thanking the lord every morning that LeBron was born where he was and wanted to win a championship for his hometown team.

[Groundhog]

Well, the centrepiece of the deal was a 60th pick, soooo...

I think the trade sets the Cavs up nicely for another Warriors-Cavs finals series (if we beat Boston, which is no given with or without the trade), and also opens the door for a rebuild if LeBron jumps ship next season.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

So you've essentially dragged the health of the centerpiece of the deal and the guy who is going to have to have a great season for you to compete this year and can walk for nothing after the season through the mud for the 58th overall pick in 2020? Real smart.

Gilbert really is an awful owner who should be thanking the lord every morning that LeBron was born where he was and wanted to win a championship for his hometown team.

At this point, I'm not sure I wouldn't take Sterling over Gilbert.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

Gilbert really is an awful owner who should be thanking the lord every morning that LeBron was born where he was and wanted to win a championship for his hometown team.

Hey, now. Gilbert has come up with a great model that other teams would be wise to copy: Have a generationally great player born in your market and keep winning the lottery.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

Hey, now. Gilbert has come up with a great model that other teams would be wise to copy: Have a generationally great player born in your market and keep winning the lottery.

Trust the process.

[miami_fan]

The NBA has hit the Lakers for 500K for tampering.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

The NBA has hit the Lakers for 500K for tampering.

Here, now give me your wrist.
{tap}

Now don't do that again.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

The NBA has hit the Lakers for 500K for tampering.

I'm assuming they're also prohibited from eventually signing said player they tampered with.

Right?

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by Logan

I'm assuming they're also prohibited from eventually signing said player they tampered with.

Right?

That should be the punishment, but I imagine that the Player's Union would object, arguing that George should not have his employment options limited by the malfeasance of a team.

[Atocep]

So the Lakers were warned for tampering with George, they tamper again after the warning, and they punishment is less than a slap on the wrist.

It's good to see the NBA trying to put to rest the notion that certain teams get preferential treatment from the league.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

That should be the punishment, but I imagine that the Player's Union would object, arguing that George should not have his employment options limited by the malfeasance of a team.

And if that was the case, George should take up a suit against the Lakers and his own agent.

[stevew]

Houston Rockets sold to the guy from CNBC's the Billion Dollar Buyer for 2.2bn

[stevew]

Re: The Lakers-

Seems like any punishment would begin at the minimum of 1 home gate and 1/82 of their TV revenue.

[CrescentMoonie]

I took some time to think it through, but I'm still in the same place I was the day the Irving to Celtics trade happened. Boston got noticeably worse. Irving's offense is great, and Hayward is a really good two way player, but they gutted that team's defensive talent and didn't replace it at all. Tatum has to come through for them to finish higher than 3rd in the East.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by stevew

Re: The Lakers-

Seems like any punishment would begin at the minimum of 1 home gate and 1/82 of their TV revenue.

Ok quick maths shows this amount to be about 3.7m. So if the Lakers got fined 4million for tampering it would be a ton more reasonable, no?

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by stevew

Ok quick maths shows this amount to be about 3.7m. So if the Lakers got fined 4million for tampering it would be a ton more reasonable, no?

Problem is that the league sets the fine amount. And the league is the other owners. And, as much as they don't want the Lakers tampering, they certainly don't want a world where the expectation is that the NBA could take millions of dollars from them.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by CrescentMoonie

I took some time to think it through, but I'm still in the same place I was the day the Irving to Celtics trade happened. Boston got noticeably worse. Irving's offense is great, and Hayward is a really good two way player, but they gutted that team's defensive talent and didn't replace it at all. Tatum has to come through for them to finish higher than 3rd in the East.

I think they are better overall talent-wise, but might end up with the same amount of wins, give or take a few. Hayward figures to slot right in with his skill set, and Tatum should be solid if he can (happily) accept a lesser role on a good team, especially compared to some of the other lottery picks.

It will be interesting watching Kyrie in the Boston offense though after the 'you go, I go' style of play in Cleveland... Seen lots of "IT was a scorer too!" comments online, which is true, but he also played within the offense and worked a lot off the ball, which Kyrie might be great at too, but it wasn't exactly something we saw from him in Cleveland.

[stevew]

Kyrie's going to lead the league in scoring if he doesn't stub a toe and miss 8-10 weeks

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by stevew

Kyrie's going to lead the league in scoring if he doesn't stub a toe and miss 8-10 weeks

He is capable of it, but I don't see it happening in Boston. Too much talent around him, and he's still good for a handful of games a year where he couldn't hit the broad side of a barn.

[CrescentMoonie]

I'm not sure what "statement" they're making, but the new alternate for each team has been released. Golden State and Utah win this by a landslide. Philly and Portland are pretty nice as well. Sacramento's look nice with their matching alternate court.

NBA Teams Showcase Alternate 'Statement' Jerseys for the 2017-18 Season | Bleacher Report

[stevew]

Thought a lot of those were sharp. The NBA does a great job encouraging alternate uniform design. I'm not sure how many of those jerseys actually sell a ton but the NFL should do more of this type of thing

[BishopMVP]

The GE logo is brutal on the Celtics alternate. Should make it a black background so it blends in, because right now it looks like one of the soccer referee patches I use to wear.

[Atocep]

McDermott, Kanter, and a draft pick was not the package I imagined the Knicks getting for Carmelo when it seemed they were having trouble agreeing to a trade.

[CrescentMoonie]

What were the Thunder thinking?

[Calis]

As a Thunder fan I don’t know what to think of this.

The pick is no biggie, and McDermott wasn’t going to see much time.

I like Kanter though. Sure he has major flaws in his game, but he seemed to legitimately love it there and seemed to be working his ass off. Does seem like Knicks got a main piece in this in an area they’ve already got some depth at.

I really haven’t seen the Knicks enough lately to judge current Melo but he seems like an odd fit for the Thunder team.

I’m guessing it’s all centered around trying to make Russ and PG consider sticking around.

The initial reactions I’m seeing are Knicks got a nice haul, but I’m not seeing it. I think it isn’t a great trade for either side.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Calis

I think it isn’t a great trade for either side.

This.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Calis

. I think it isn’t a great trade for either side.

I think this is a far better deal for the Thunder. Melo as a 3rd option is a much better fit than Melo as a focal point. Kanter's contract is awful considering his a terrible fit in the current NBA. There simply isn't a place in the NBA for a 6'11" PF/C that doesn't defend, doesn't protect the rim, and has no outside shot.

A Westbrook, Roberson, George, Melo, Adams starting 5 is really interesting. OKC isn't as good as Golden State or Houston, but they've probably moved into that tier right below them with San Antonio.

[CrescentMoonie]

Originally Posted by Atocep

I think this is a far better deal for the Thunder. Melo as a 3rd option is a much better fit than Melo as a focal point. Kanter's contract is awful considering his a terrible fit in the current NBA. There simply isn't a place in the NBA for a 6'11" PF/C that doesn't defend, doesn't protect the rim, and has no outside shot.

A Westbrook, Roberson, George, Melo, Adams starting 5 is really interesting. OKC isn't as good as Golden State or Houston, but they've probably moved into that tier right below them with San Antonio.

I wouldn't trade Kanter straight up for Melo at this point in their careers.

Kanter is excellent off the bench as a post scorer for 20 minutes a night. His two seasons in that role have produced 24 and 23.7 PER and win shares of 8.1 and 5.8.

Melo's last two years 20.3 and 17.9 PER with 6.4 and 4.7 win shares.

Neither is a great player, but I'll take 25 and plays his ass off over 33 and rapidly declining.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Atocep

I think this is a far better deal for the Thunder. Melo as a 3rd option is a much better fit than Melo as a focal point. Kanter's contract is awful considering his a terrible fit in the current NBA. There simply isn't a place in the NBA for a 6'11" PF/C that doesn't defend, doesn't protect the rim, and has no outside shot.

A Westbrook, Roberson, George, Melo, Adams starting 5 is really interesting. OKC isn't as good as Golden State or Houston, but they've probably moved into that tier right below them with San Antonio.

+1

Kanter's unplayable vs the good Western playoff teams, and with PG13/Melo you don't need him as an offensive focal point when Westbrook rests for 5 minutes a game. Melo's gotten so much mockery for being unable to carry a terribly run franchise it's like people have forgotten just how good he can be when surrounded by good players (see: Olympic Melo).

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by CrescentMoonie

I wouldn't trade Kanter straight up for Melo at this point in their careers.

Kanter is excellent off the bench as a post scorer for 20 minutes a night. His two seasons in that role have produced 24 and 23.7 PER and win shares of 8.1 and 5.8.

Melo's last two years 20.3 and 17.9 PER with 6.4 and 4.7 win shares.

Neither is a great player, but I'll take 25 and plays his ass off over 33 and rapidly declining.

Kanter averaged 9 minutes per game in the playoffs last year because he's unplayable against top western conference teams.

Right now Kanter is the player a developed Jahil Okafor is likely to become without all the Duke hype and hatred for "The Process". He ranked 63rd out 66 centers in DRPM and 42nd overall. The guy can score, but he doesn't do anything to actually help a team win basketball games.

[CrescentMoonie]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Kanter averaged 9 minutes per game in the playoffs last year because he's unplayable against top western conference teams.

Right now Kanter is the player a developed Jahil Okafor is likely to become without all the Duke hype and hatred for "The Process". He ranked 63rd out 66 centers in DRPM and 42nd overall. The guy can score, but he doesn't do anything to actually help a team win basketball games.

Same can be said for Melo. I'll take Kanter over Melo at this point in their careers. Melo isn't going to help the Thunder this year at all.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by CrescentMoonie

Same can be said for Melo. I'll take Kanter over Melo at this point in their careers. Melo isn't going to help the Thunder this year at all.

Idk if Billy Donovan is the right coach to help these players mesh, but Melo could be a very good smallball 4 with talent around him, just like he has been for Team USA. Enes Kanter is guaranteed not to be playable vs the top Western conference teams. I know who I'd take.

[Young Drachma]

Sam Presti went to Hogwarts. Amazing what he's managed to do with that team this off-season. Also, ownership knows they're fucked if they can't keep a star there because free agents aren't flocking to OKC no matter what.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by CrescentMoonie

Same can be said for Melo. I'll take Kanter over Melo at this point in their careers. Melo isn't going to help the Thunder this year at all.

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Totally burned the roof of my mouth with this take.

[CrescentMoonie]

Originally Posted by Young Drachma

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Totally burned the roof of my mouth with this take.

It's not 2013 anymore. Melo playing the 4 is going to be worse than Melo playing the 3 on defense and he was terrible at that. His offensive output isn't going to be what it was in NY with Russ controlling the ball on every possession. Melo doesn't make OKC better.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by CrescentMoonie

It's not 2013 anymore. Melo playing the 4 is going to be worse than Melo playing the 3 on defense and he was terrible at that. His offensive output isn't going to be what it was in NY with Russ controlling the ball on every possession. Melo doesn't make OKC better.

Carmelo Anthony Team USA Offensive Highlights (2016) - YouTube

[CrescentMoonie]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Carmelo Anthony Team USA Offensive Highlights (2016) - YouTube

Is OKC playing a bunch of teams that mostly only have 1-2 guys good enough to make the OKC roster? Are they doing it under Olympic rules? Do they have the 12 of the top 30 active players on their roster?

Unless those are all yes, then what was done in a 2 week tournament with different rules and much more unbalanced rosters is irrelevant.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by CrescentMoonie

It's not 2013 anymore. Melo playing the 4 is going to be worse than Melo playing the 3 on defense and he was terrible at that. His offensive output isn't going to be what it was in NY with Russ controlling the ball on every possession. Melo doesn't make OKC better.

Originally Posted by CrescentMoonie

Is OKC playing a bunch of teams that mostly only have 1-2 guys good enough to make the OKC roster? Are they doing it under Olympic rules? Do they have the 12 of the top 30 active players on their roster?

Unless those are all yes, then what was done in a 2 week tournament with different rules and much more unbalanced rosters is irrelevant.

He was playing at a high level in 2016 (and his career stats show very little decline, not the rapid one you've claimed), he looks better defensively as a 2nd/3rd wing defender who can help out more with rebounding & weakside rim protection than one forced to play 1v1 on the perimeter, and he's repeatedly shown the ability & willingness to adapt his incredibly versatile offensive game to having the ball in his hands less & punish the mismatches that come when opponents are more concerned with superior teammates. But sure, it's completely irrelevant and the guy getting paid $18 million a year to play 8 mpg in the playoffs is better