2017 NBA Offseason Thread

[nilodor]

Sad that Tibs brought in Gibson, so little shooting there now. I really wish they targeting Patterson or another shooting big to try and open the floor up a bit there. I hope Wiggins has really improved his outside shot.

[BishopMVP]

Not sure who ESPN's Chris Haynes is, but he & a Boston reporter I respect both saying Hayward to Boston. Plus Isaiah just tweeted out the eyes (& Hayward's cousin/trainer just followed a lot of Celtics on Twitter), so looks like we got our man.

It will be interesting to see if he took a small discount and which player we'll have to trade to fit him. I think if he takes like a 300k discount it can be achieved by trading Rozier, not Smart/Crowder/Bradley. Though I'd still like to trade AB.

(Edit - I go barbecuing for a couple hours & everything changes. Does at least sound like the Heat have been eliminated.)

{Edit 2 - I wasn't worried for a second https://theplayerstribune.com/gordon...ee-agency-nba/ )

[Groundhog]

It's official now. Hayward is a Celtic.

[Groundhog]

I'd think there would be enough interest in Brown given his age, athleticism, defensive potential, and surprising ability to hit the 3, that they could package him alongside a draft pick and/or Bradley or Smart to get some help inside. Celtics should be going all-in now IMO.

[Chief Rum]

I don't think they should trade Brown. He is under a rookie contract and team control for several more years. Plus, his value will no doubt increase.

Boston needs to ship two of Bradley, Smart and Crowder, IMO. If that brings a dominant in the lane center, great.

[Chief Rum]

So Derrick Rose is meeting with the Clips tomorrow. Color me non-plussed. I think he's a cancer, and the Clips traded the best guy for controlling him to the Rockets.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

I don't think they should trade Brown. He is under a rookie contract and team control for several more years. Plus, his value will no doubt increase.

Boston needs to ship two of Bradley, Smart and Crowder, IMO. If that brings a dominant in the lane center, great.

If they can get someone without Brown, great. I think any deals that include Brown will dramatically help their chances though.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

I'd think there would be enough interest in Brown given his age, athleticism, defensive potential, and surprising ability to hit the 3, that they could package him alongside a draft pick and/or Bradley or Smart to get some help inside. Celtics should be going all-in now IMO.

Eh, "Assets" can come in and hit some clutch 3s to beat the Cavs.

[stevew]

Nets maxing out Otto Porter. Wiz expected to match. At least Brooklyn has the right idea

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

I'd think there would be enough interest in Brown given his age, athleticism, defensive potential, and surprising ability to hit the 3, that they could package him alongside a draft pick and/or Bradley or Smart to get some help inside. Celtics should be going all-in now IMO.

Strongly agree there should be more interest in Brown given his already better than expected shooting & work ethic. Strongly disagree the Celtics should be going all in now, especially since Indy & Chicago traded George/Butler for weak packages.

We'll never know exactly what went on over the phones, and I don't trust Ainge, but I think we would've offered a better package than either deal now that we signed Hayward. Why those two teams felt compelled to move that quickly for underwhelming packages idk.

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

I don't think they should trade Brown. He is under a rookie contract and team control for several more years. Plus, his value will no doubt increase.

Boston needs to ship two of Bradley, Smart and Crowder, IMO. If that brings a dominant in the lane center, great.

Agree strongly on Brown. Disagree on the latter - we can get by trading one of the 3, and I'd rather go for a draft pick... There isn't a great 2017 center available for trade now that LAC wants to keep DJ, so I'd rather see what level Ante Zizic rolls in at & play it out from there.

[Chief Rum]

I think you put too much faith in Zizic, really. He might be great, but I'll bet by the time he is, all of your best rotation players besides Hayward, Tatum and Brown will either have left via FA or grown too old to have the same effectiveness.

[Groundhog]

I don't even think the Celtics need a true C, they just need someone who can eat the glass while not being a negative in other areas. I don't think the Cavs would trade TT because of the gaping hole it would leave inside, but someone like that would be ideal.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

So Derrick Rose is meeting with the Clips tomorrow. Color me non-plussed. I think he's a cancer, and the Clips traded the best guy for controlling him to the Rockets.

Javale McGee decided to crash the party too. At least he has rings, even if he too is a dunderhead.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

I think you put too much faith in Zizic, really. He might be great, but I'll bet by the time he is, all of your best rotation players besides Hayward, Tatum and Brown will either have left via FA or grown too old to have the same effectiveness.

Originally Posted by Groundhog

I don't even think the Celtics need a true C, they just need someone who can eat the glass while not being a negative in other areas. I don't think the Cavs would trade TT because of the gaping hole it would leave inside, but someone like that would be ideal.

It's less faith in Zizic & more just who's available? Dewayne Dedmon for the mid-level exception is the best potential option & even he'll probably sign for more elsewehere. After that it's guys like Willie Reed, Jeff Withey & Tarik Black. At that point why not just wait & see what shakes out next trade deadline or in the buyout market?

[nol]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Strongly disagree the Celtics should be going all in now, especially since Indy & Chicago traded George/Butler for weak packages.

Starting next year, this team is going to be paying out 3 max deals to a "big 3" composed of zero of the top 20 players in the league when all three players aren't getting any better. So I guess they're halfway in for the present and halfway in for the future.

[jbergey22]

Celtics being overly patient in clearing the needed cap space to fit in Haywards's contract. Wonder if Ainge can mess this up?

[Groundhog]

Jazz are open to a S&T apparently. That could actually work out OK for both teams, depending on who else gets thrown in to the trade.

[JPhillips]

Perhaps we should wait until opening night before writing off the Celtics' roster.

[Chief Rum]

Clips talking contract with a Serbian beer league looking PG named Teodosic. He passes like Rubio and plays no defense, near as I can tell.

[Groundhog]

Handy couple of games for Exum. Pretty much a make or break year for him as far as gauging his potential. Not sure if his NBA ceiling is going to be much higher than 3 & D guy - assuming he fixes his shooting %, which I think he will.

[korme]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Clips talking contract with a Serbian beer league looking PG named Teodosic. He passes like Rubio and plays no defense, near as I can tell.

He's one of the best players not in the NBA IMO

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by korme

He's one of the best players not in the NBA IMO

That seems to be the consensus and I loved the highlights I saw of his passing. I'm concerned about his athleticism and defense though. We'll see. I'm definitely intrigued.

Reports are he has signed for 2 years, $12.3 M.

[Fidatelo]

I always love the idea of 'the best player not in [league name]', because 9 times out of 10 they get signed and become the new worst player in the league.

[Chief Rum]

Saw a comment threat where someone said the Clips would now be "Milob City."

I decided that was worth repeating here.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

I always love the idea of 'the best player not in [league name]', because 9 times out of 10 they get signed and become the new worst player in the league.

Yeah, there's more to the NBA than being really really really ridiculously good at basketball. It's just played a different way in the NBA - there's a number of established NBA players that would struggle in the top-tier European game, and obviously many more vice versa.

I've seen Teodosic a bunch of times over the years. I think he'll be fine on one end of the court, but who knows on the other. It's a fairly safe gamble at the $$$ and years thrown at him though.

[korme]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

I always love the idea of 'the best player not in [league name]', because 9 times out of 10 they get signed and become the new worst player in the league.

That's a very shortsighted, ridiculous answer honestly. Plenty of 20-something fringe D-league guys that get 10 days are not all better than all of the Euroleague guys. This is not NFL/CFL here.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

It's a fairly safe gamble at the $$$ and years thrown at him though.

2 years for $12.3 is like a rounding error in the current NBA. Even if this guy never sees the court, it won't set the Clippers back at all.

[bob]

Atlanta Hawks

PG: Dennis Schroder / Malcolm Delaney
SG: Kent Bazemore / Marco Bellineli / Jamal Crawford / Deandre Bembry (/SF)
SF: Taurean Prince
PF: John Collins
C: Miles Plumlee / Diamond Stone
Unsigned FA's: Ersan Ilyasova (PF), Mike Muscala (C/PF), Kris Humpries (PF/C), Thabo Sefolosha (SF)
Unsigned rookies: Tyler Dorsey (SG) / Alpha Kaba (C)

Holy crap that is a shit show.

[nilodor]

Originally Posted by korme

That's a very shortsighted, ridiculous answer honestly. Plenty of 20-something fringe D-league guys that get 10 days are not all better than all of the Euroleague guys. This is not NFL/CFL here.

You mean where the best players make all league teams and some wind up in the HOF?

[korme]

Originally Posted by nilodor

You mean where the best players make all league teams and some wind up in the HOF?

Huh?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by bob

Atlanta Hawks

PG: Dennis Schroder / Malcolm Delaney
SG: Kent Bazemore / Marco Bellineli / Jamal Crawford / Deandre Bembry (/SF)
SF: Taurean Prince
PF: John Collins
C: Miles Plumlee / Diamond Stone
Unsigned FA's: Ersan Ilyasova (PF), Mike Muscala (C/PF), Kris Humpries (PF/C), Thabo Sefolosha (SF)
Unsigned rookies: Tyler Dorsey (SG) / Alpha Kaba (C)

Holy crap that is a shit show.

Crawford is expected to be bought out, so it's actually marginally even worse.

[nilodor]

Originally Posted by korme

Huh?

It was slightly tongue in cheek but several of the CFL's best players have gone on to succeed in the NFL. Older examples like Warren Moon and Joe Theismann were more to do with other factors but more recent players like Jeff Garcia (4 time probowler), Joe Horn (4 pro bowls), Cam Wake (5 Pro bowls, 4 All Pro teams), Brandon Browner have found pretty high levels of success. There are other players who have become serviceable starters too. Yes the overall quality of the league is much behind the NFL, but it's not that bad.

[BishopMVP]

Avery Bradley & a 2019 2nd to the Pistons for Marcus Morris. I like it because I've always felt Bradley made the most sense to trade between value/next contract $$$ & this gives us some more proven frontcourt depth, even if it's not a 5. Plus it'll add yet another storyline to Celtics/Wizards games next spring.

Not really sure what Detroit's doing here renouncing KCP. Maybe they were afraid the Nets would offer KCP more than they could pay if their Porter offer is matched, but why not wait & see if something strange happened... Like the Knicks just offering Tim Hardaway Jr 4/$71!

[Arles]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Avery Bradley & a 2019 2nd to the Pistons for Marcus Morris. I like it because I've always felt Bradley made the most sense to trade between value/next contract $$$ & this gives us some more proven frontcourt depth, even if it's not a 5. Plus it'll add yet another storyline to Celtics/Wizards games next spring.

Morris seems like a back of the bench guy with Hayward, Horford, Crowder, Brown and Tatum. With IT gimpy, it looks like Boston will be relying a lot on Smart and Rozier. I'd much rather have IT, Bradley and Smart (with no Crowder) than add Morris as a 4th/5th forward and be left with IT, Smart and Rozier. I get why Boston did it, I just would have tried harder to keep Bradley and move Crowder. If Morris plays, one of Brown and Tatum will be getting a lot of DNPs. Maybe they try to move Crowder for a guard now?

Not really sure what Detroit's doing here renouncing KCP. Maybe they were afraid the Nets would offer KCP more than they could pay if their Porter offer is matched, but why not wait & see if something strange happened... Like the Knicks just offering Tim Hardaway Jr 4/$71!

There was virtually no chance of them matching KCP unless they wanted to be massively in the tax (which I'm guessing they don't). Plus, after adding Bardley and Galloway, I don't think they'd want KCP back on a reasonable contract. You get agent good will and open up maybe one more move for your own team if you renounce. I don't think it was a bad move.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Arles

Morris seems like a back of the bench guy with Hayward, Horford, Crowder, Brown and Tatum. With IT gimpy, it looks like Boston will be relying a lot on Smart and Rozier. I'd much rather have IT, Bradley and Smart (with no Crowder) than add Morris as a 4th/5th forward and be left with IT, Smart and Rozier. I get why Boston did it, I just would have tried harder to keep Bradley and move Crowder. If Morris plays, one of Brown and Tatum will be getting a lot of DNPs. Maybe they try to move Crowder for a guard now?

I don't see why Boston would move Crowder. He has one of the best contracts in the league. Bradley will be a free agent after this upcoming season so trading him made the most sense.

[Arles]

Originally Posted by Atocep

I don't see why Boston would move Crowder. He has one of the best contracts in the league. Bradley will be a free agent after this upcoming season so trading him made the most sense.

But how much is he going to play with Hayward, Morris, Brown and Tatum? Morris has a cheaper contract and can provide what Crowder does as a bench option - esp if you want to get Brown and Tatum more minutes. The Celtics are also extremely thin at the guard spot. If Smart or IT get hurt, who's the 3rd guard? I'm guessing it would be Demetrius Jackson - yuck. I'd rather have moved Crowder and be forced to use Brown or Tatum if Hayward got hurt - atleast they have some talent.

Are we sure that this:
G: IT, Smart, Rozier, Jackson
F: Hayward, Crowder, Morris, Brown/Tatum
C: Horford, Thies/Zizic?

is significantly better than:
G: IT, Bradley, Smart, Rozier
F: Crowder, Brown, Green, Jerebko
C: Horford, Olynyk

It's certainly a much better forward crop, but I think guard and center are worse. It's better, but I'm not sure this offseason has been the homerun for Boston everyone keeps saying. I think they need to move a forward for a better 3rd guard.

[Groundhog]

That Hardaway Jr contract offer from the Knicks is the most Knicks move ever. Wow.

[Groundhog]

First Summer League play for the Lakers - Ball to Ingram alley-oop.

[Groundhog]

I'll be damned if this Clippers-Lakers game isn't actually entertaining. Ingram had an injury scare at the end there, but otherwise has been smooth as hell. Brice Johnson looking good for the Clips, while Ball has looked like a poor man's Michael Carter-Williams.

[Chief Rum]

Brown was played a lot as a big wing at the SG spot last year. Plus, he's long and athletic and displayed a better than expected shot from beyond the arc. I am pretty sure the Celtics will be playing him mostly at the 2, and he and Morris won't be bumping into each other's minutes as much as youbthink.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

I'll be damned if this Clippers-Lakers game isn't actually entertaining. Ingram had an injury scare at the end there, but otherwise has been smooth as hell. Brice Johnson looking good for the Clips, while Ball has looked like a poor man's Michael Carter-Williams.

Haha poor man's Michael Carter Williams doesn't give him much space to be a player. Although I think Ball's game style is going to take some adjusting in any case.

As a Clips fan, I like seeing Brice Johnson do well. He was a pick I liked last year but he missed almost the entire year with a back injury, forcing the Clips to play Brandon Bass way too much.

[bronconick]

Ramona Shelburne‏Verified account @ramonashelburne









Lonzo Ball is still shooting...and missing. Now 2-14 from the field and 1-10 from 3.

So...."Air" Ball?

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Arles

Morris seems like a back of the bench guy with Hayward, Horford, Crowder, Brown and Tatum. With IT gimpy, it looks like Boston will be relying a lot on Smart and Rozier. I'd much rather have IT, Bradley and Smart (with no Crowder) than add Morris as a 4th/5th forward and be left with IT, Smart and Rozier. I get why Boston did it, I just would have tried harder to keep Bradley and move Crowder. If Morris plays, one of Brown and Tatum will be getting a lot of DNPs. Maybe they try to move Crowder for a guard now?

Crowder (& Morris) have 2 seasons left on cheap deals. Smart will be an RFA in a league that'll have a lot less teams with extra cap space next summer. Bradley is going to get paid via UFA or extension, and had a high enough cap # we could get back a rotation player back, while trading Smart would've had to be strictly for picks or maybe a minsal guy like Richaun Holmes at best.

There was virtually no chance of them matching KCP unless they wanted to be massively in the tax (which I'm guessing they don't). Plus, after adding Bardley and Galloway, I don't think they'd want KCP back on a reasonable contract. You get agent good will and open up maybe one more move for your own team if you renounce. I don't think it was a bad move.

I think the number was $16.8m they could match after this before the hard cap, and the likely scenario is still him going to the Nets when the Wizards match Otto Porter's deal... But if for some reason the Wizards don't match or Nets choose to go a different direction? There's even talk of KCP potentially taking a 1-year deal now, in which case maybe you can swing a trade or just get him.to play one more year in Detroit. I also think he's better than Galloway (or Stanley Johnson).

Originally Posted by Arles

But how much is he going to play with Hayward, Morris, Brown and Tatum? Morris has a cheaper contract and can provide what Crowder does as a bench option - esp if you want to get Brown and Tatum more minutes. The Celtics are also extremely thin at the guard spot. If Smart or IT get hurt, who's the 3rd guard? I'm guessing it would be Demetrius Jackson - yuck. I'd rather have moved Crowder and be forced to use Brown or Tatum if Hayward got hurt - atleast they have some talent.

Are we sure that this:
G: IT, Smart, Rozier, Jackson
F: Hayward, Crowder, Morris, Brown/Tatum
C: Horford, Thies/Zizic?

is significantly better than:
G: IT, Bradley, Smart, Rozier
F: Crowder, Brown, Green, Jerebko
C: Horford, Olynyk

It's certainly a much better forward crop, but I think guard and center are worse. It's better, but I'm not sure this offseason has been the homerun for Boston everyone keeps saying. I think they need to move a forward for a better 3rd guard.

This isn't a home run offseason, it's a double that moves a runner from 1st to 3rd? (Idk, that might he stretching the baseball analogy - either way, a home run would've required Hayward + Butler/George) But fwiw Gordon Hayward (& maybe Jaylen Brown, though I don't see it yet) would be our 3rd "guard" with Rozier & Smart/IT in that injury scenario. Stevens has talked about his 4 category system that has PG's="ballhandlers", but then "Wings" as 2/3's, "Swings" as 3/4's & "Bigs" a.k.a. 4/5's before, and it's probably a better template than a strict 1/2/3/4/5 system, especially in today's NBA. Idk exactly where Morris & Crowder fit in and the minutes will work out, but I don't think Jaylen's development was hurt from having to fight for playing time, so if he & Jayson (& Morris) have to fight for it so be it. I assume injuries will occur anyways.

[MrBug708]

I thought Ball did a good job getting the ball to guys in space. He's obviously trying to prove he can hit the 3 in this game. It will come with time

[Groundhog]

It wasn't just the 3s, he made some bad/strange decisions with the ball, passing up a layup on the drive to hit contested team mates, etc. It's only one summer league game so it doesn't really mean squat, but Fultz and Fox have both looked ahead of the curve so far... and as I type that, Fox airballs a 3.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

It wasn't just the 3s, he made some bad/strange decisions with the ball, passing up a layup on the drive to hit contested team mates, etc. It's only one summer league game so it doesn't really mean squat, but Fultz and Fox have both looked ahead of the curve so far... and as I type that, Fox airballs a 3.

He did that a lot at UCLA. It's almost as if an assist is worth more than 2 points to him. UCLA had a lot of shooters that helped space the floor, not that the Lakers are blessed with great 3 point shooters, but this summer league team is just that. His weakness is beating his man off the dribble so I think tonight was him trying to make a statement and it didn't work so well. If it helps Ingram get going, then it's already a win in my book

[MrBug708]

Triple double

[Neon_Chaos]

Triple dub. Cant wait til he plays with the starters, and they stop missing shots from his passes.

[Shkspr]

It's official: Markelle Fultz is a Sixers rookie.

[stevew]

Yeah maybe we should lay off a 19 year old rookie who hasn't played an important game since his senior year in HS. Ball will be fine.