#CharlestonShooting

[RainMaker]

I do think people other than blacks and Mexicans rob people.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

I just spent a week in that lawless, 3rd world country. It's not so bad, honest.

There's lots of beautiful places in Mexico (I'm going there myself in September), but the death tolls and the disintegration of local governments over the course of the drug wars have been pretty crazy - though its calmed down a little the last couple of years.

[molson]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

i.e. "we're scared the blacks or Mexicans are going to come for our stuff."

I'd say they're more afraid of meth tweakers.

[Edward64]

Its the zombie apocalypse for me.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Jukeman

Re Jon Stewart

I'm just going to leave this here and tip toe out

PSA: #YesAllwhitePeople - YouTube

I don't think she's using the word "racist" correctly but I'd agree with her that all white people have prejudices, and often that's manifested in an ignorance of, or denial of the existence of white privilege. I totally get where she's coming from when she says she wouldn't want to associate with a white person who doesn't think they have prejudices they need to work on. But I'd just go further - I think all black people have prejudices too. Obviously those aren't as damaging considering the societal structure in the U.S., but I don't think that all black people are perfectly enlightened beings or anything.

That's why I find some of the grandstanding on facebook and from Jon Stuart so cringe-worthy. Not a lot of people want to acknowledge their own prejudices but the LOVE to pronounce their enlightenment on racial attitudes and to attack others. Just like cuervo72 just did. He apparently sees gun owners as racist (at least those who own guns for home protection, which is millions and millions of people), and himself as some perfect enlightened being who's above all that. He's the kind of person that woman ranted about in the video. That's facebook this week, that's the liberal blogs and slate articles and the daily show. This is all just another opportunity to attack the "wrong" half of America (or police, or whoever else you see as beneath you).

Edit: I bet that woman would get along better with JIMGA than a lot of the liberals here and all over my facebook wall who think they're perfectly racially enlightened and are in position to judge who isn't up to their level. I mean for god's sake, like Rainmaker was saying, our societal leader on race relations, the one who apparently speaks for all the comfy suburban whites is Jon Stewart. That's just hilarious. We have no credibility.

[ColtCrazy]

Frankly, I find the "Yesallwhitepeople" comment ignorant and dangerous. You cannot lump an entire group of people, any group, and label them. Does everyone have some sort of prejudice? I'm sure to some extent, but to say an entire group has some sort of grudge against another or, as I've shockingly read online, "blood on our hands" is just horrible.

As long as any side lumps people into these groups, there will be racial divide in this world.

I guess it's simply too much to ask for people to see each other as people and nothing more.

[molson]

Originally Posted by ColtCrazy

Frankly, I find the "Yesallwhitepeople" comment ignorant and dangerous. You cannot lump an entire group of people, any group, and label them. Does everyone have some sort of prejudice? I'm sure to some extent, but to say an entire group has some sort of grudge against another or, as I've shockingly read online, "blood on our hands" is just horrible.

As long as any side lumps people into these groups, there will be racial divide in this world.

I guess it's simply too much to ask for people to see each other as people and nothing more.

I agree, but that's why I think its important to acknowledge that all humans are inherently flawed and that in a way, blood IS on all of our hands. If it's not all of us, then we have to start deciding which groups are the ones to blame, which you eventually see play out in every single one of these threads. It's an "everybody else" problem and we just go after the groups we didn't like anyway. That does get dangerous when those groups are broad. And like you said, I think that's where the racial divides and societal tensions ultimately come from. When bad incidents are ammo to use on groups we think are undesirable.

And obviously I'm not above that because I do the same thing. Some people are ultimately set off by gun owners or police officers or whatever, but I have my own triggers where I have trouble seeing things rationally.

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

i.e. "we're scared the blacks or Mexicans are going to come for our stuff."

So you are saying that blacks and Mexicans don't have guns for home protection? What the hell do they have them for???

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by molson

I don't think she's using the word "racist" correctly but I'd agree with her that all white people have prejudices, and often that's manifested in an ignorance of, or denial of the existence of white privilege.

Surprise you make such a broad statement Molson. First off, all people have some form of prejudice, sometimes manifested, sometimes hidden, sometimes obliviously submerged deep inside, it's human nature. The problem with this line of thought is that it comes across as though all whites are ignorant, (regarding white privilege, yes it still exists to varying degrees) mistrustful and basically detached from the issues of race in society. This is not the case and greatly marginalizes the efforts of people of all races who work on a daily basis towards a better future.

I am sure that was not your intent, but still.

[AENeuman]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

What's your solution for getting rid of guns in this country that borders a 3rd world country more than willing to transport them in illegally?

Most of US does not care about murders with illegal guns. What makes the news is these mass shootings with legal guns. So not sure Mexico has anything to do with this particular problem.

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by Dutch

So you are saying that blacks and Mexicans don't have guns for home protection? What the hell do they have them for???

I'm saying that I know some older people who have guns (and seem to be taking an increasing interest in them - along with food rations, home safes), and it's not for fun, it's not for hunting. It's because of fear - and I don't think it's white people they are afraid of.

[AENeuman]

I think it is telling that the person in the cell next to this guy is the cop who murdered a black man. To me, that says there is no way we should rely on institutions to solve this problem, there is too much self interest to be sincere.

Like Micahle Cotleon said, you can never win against a group that feels like they have nothing to lose. Unfortunately, that would include most of the murderes in this country.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

I'm saying that I know some older people who have guns (and seem to be taking an increasing interest in them - along with food rations, home safes), and it's not for fun, it's not for hunting. It's because of fear - and I don't think it's white people they are afraid of.

My general response to this is....."so?" Just because some people have racial motivations for wanting to protect their homes doesn't mean we should make it illegal for them to do so out of our spite/condemnation.



On an entirely different note, the shooter's apparent racist manifesto has been uncovered. It appears that he owned the domain name lastrhodesion DOT com.

Originally Posted by Charleston Shooter

I was not raised in a racist home or environment. Living in the South, almost every White person has a small amount of racial awareness, simply beause of the numbers of negroes in this part of the country. But it is a superficial awareness. Growing up, in school, the White and black kids would make racial jokes toward each other, but all they were were jokes. Me and White friends would sometimes would watch things that would make us think that “blacks were the real racists” and other elementary thoughts like this, but there was no real understanding behind it.

The event that truly awakened me was the Trayvon Martin case. I kept hearing and seeing his name, and eventually I decided to look him up. I read the Wikipedia article and right away I was unable to understand what the big deal was. It was obvious that Zimmerman was in the right. But more importantly this prompted me to type in the words “black on White crime” into Google, and I have never been the same since that day. The first website I came to was the Council of Conservative Citizens. There were pages upon pages of these brutal black on White murders. I was in disbelief. At this moment I realized that something was very wrong. How could the news be blowing up the Trayvon Martin case while hundreds of these black on White murders got ignored?

From this point I researched deeper and found out what was happening in Europe. I saw that the same things were happening in England and France, and in all the other Western European countries. Again I found myself in disbelief. As an American we are taught to accept living in the melting pot, and black and other minorities have just as much right to be here as we do, since we are all immigrants. But Europe is the homeland of White people, and in many ways the situation is even worse there. From here I found out about the Jewish problem and other issues facing our race, and I can say today that I am completely racially aware.

Blacks

I think it is is fitting to start off with the group I have the most real life experience with, and the group that is the biggest problem for Americans.
Niggers are stupid and violent. At the same time they have the capacity to be very slick. Black people view everything through a racial lense. Thats what racial awareness is, its viewing everything that happens through a racial lense. They are always thinking about the fact that they are black. This is part of the reason they get offended so easily, and think that some thing are intended to be racist towards them, even when a White person wouldnt be thinking about race. The other reason is the Jewish agitation of the black race.
Black people are racially aware almost from birth, but White people on average dont think about race in their daily lives. And this is our problem. We need to and have to.
Say you were to witness a dog being beat by a man. You are almost surely going to feel very sorry for that dog. But then say you were to witness a dog biting a man. You will most likely not feel the same pity you felt for the dog for the man. Why? Because dogs are lower than men.
This same analogy applies to black and White relations. Even today, blacks are subconsciously viewed by White people are lower beings. They are held to a lower standard in general. This is why they are able to get away with things like obnoxious behavior in public. Because it is expected of them.
Modern history classes instill a subconscious White superiority complex in Whites and an inferiority complex in blacks. This White superiority complex that comes from learning of how we dominated other peoples is also part of the problem I have just mentioned. But of course I dont deny that we are in fact superior.
I wish with a passion that niggers were treated terribly throughout history by Whites, that every White person had an ancestor who owned slaves, that segregation was an evil an oppressive institution, and so on. Because if it was all it true, it would make it so much easier for me to accept our current situation. But it isnt true. None of it is. We are told to accept what is happening to us because of ancestors wrong doing, but it is all based on historical lies, exaggerations and myths. I have tried endlessly to think of reasons we deserve this, and I have only came back more irritated because there are no reasons.
Only a fourth to a third of people in the South owned even one slave. Yet every White person is treated as if they had a slave owning ancestor. This applies to in the states where slavery never existed, as well as people whose families immigrated after slavery was abolished. I have read hundreds of slaves narratives from my state. And almost all of them were positive. One sticks out in my mind where an old ex-slave recounted how the day his mistress died was one of the saddest days of his life. And in many of these narratives the slaves told of how their masters didnt even allowing whipping on his plantation.
Segregation was not a bad thing. It was a defensive measure. Segregation did not exist to hold back negroes. It existed to protect us from them. And I mean that in multiple ways. Not only did it protect us from having to interact with them, and from being physically harmed by them, but it protected us from being brought down to their level. Integration has done nothing but bring Whites down to level of brute animals. The best example of this is obviously our school system.
Now White parents are forced to move to the suburbs to send their children to “good schools”. But what constitutes a “good school”? The fact is that how good a school is considered directly corresponds to how White it is. I hate with a passion the whole idea of the suburbs. To me it represents nothing but scared White people running. Running because they are too weak, scared, and brainwashed to fight. Why should we have to flee the cities we created for the security of the suburbs? Why are the suburbs secure in the first place? Because they are White. The pathetic part is that these White people dont even admit to themselves why they are moving. They tell themselves it is for better schools or simply to live in a nicer neighborhood. But it is honestly just a way to escape niggers and other minorities.
But what about the White people that are left behind? What about the White children who, because of school zoning laws, are forced to go to a school that is 90 percent black? Do we really think that that White kid will be able to go one day without being picked on for being White, or called a “white boy”? And who is fighting for him? Who is fighting for these White people forced by economic circumstances to live among negroes? No one, but someone has to.

Here I would also like to touch on the idea of a Norhtwest Front. I think this idea is beyond stupid. Why should I for example, give up the beauty and history of my state to go to the Norhthwest? To me the whole idea just parralells the concept of White people running to the suburbs. The whole idea is pathetic and just another way to run from the problem without facing it.
Some people feel as though the South is beyond saving, that we have too many blacks here. To this I say look at history. The South had a higher ratio of blacks when we were holding them as slaves. Look at South Africa, and how such a small minority held the black in apartheid for years and years. Speaking of South Africa, if anyone thinks that think will eventually just change for the better, consider how in South Africa they have affirmative action for the black population that makes up 80 percent of the population.
It is far from being too late for America or Europe. I believe that even if we made up only 30 percent of the population we could take it back completely. But by no means should we wait any longer to take drastic action.

Anyone who thinks that White and black people look as different as we do on the outside, but are somehow magically the same on the inside, is delusional. How could our faces, skin, hair, and body structure all be different, but our brains be exactly the same? This is the nonsense we are led to believe.
Negroes have lower Iqs, lower impulse control, and higher testosterone levels in generals. These three things alone are a recipe for violent behavior. If a scientist publishes a paper on the differences between the races in Western Europe or Americans, he can expect to lose his job. There are personality traits within human families, and within different breeds of cats or dogs, so why not within the races?
A horse and a donkey can breed and make a mule, but they are still two completely different animals. Just because we can breed with the other races doesnt make us the same.
In a modern history class it is always emphasized that, when talking about “bad” things Whites have done in history, they were White. But when we lern about the numerous, almost countless wonderful things Whites have done, it is never pointed out that these people were White. Yet when we learn about anything important done by a black person in history, it is always pointed out repeatedly that they were black. For example when we learn about how George Washington carver was the first nigger smart enough to open a peanut.

On another subject I want to say this. Many White people feel as though they dont have a unique culture. The reason for this is that White culture is world culture. I dont mean that our culture is made up of other cultures, I mean that our culture has been adopted by everyone in the world. This makes us feel as though our culture isnt special or unique. Say for example that every business man in the world wore a kimono, that every skyscraper was in the shape of a pagoda, that every door was a sliding one, and that everyone ate every meal with chopsticks. This would probably make a Japanese man feel as though he had no unique traditional culture.

I have noticed a great disdain for race mixing White women within the White nationalists community, bordering on insanity it. These women are victims, and they can be saved. Stop.

Jews

Unlike many White naitonalists, I am of the opinion that the majority of American and European jews are White. In my opinion the issues with jews is not their blood, but their identity. I think that if we could somehow destroy the jewish identity, then they wouldnt cause much of a problem. The problem is that Jews look White, and in many cases are White, yet they see themselves as minorities. Just like niggers, most jews are always thinking about the fact that they are jewish. The other issue is that they network. If we could somehow turn every jew blue for 24 hours, I think there would be a mass awakening, because people would be able to see plainly what is going on.

I dont pretend to understand why jews do what they do. They are enigma.



Hispanics

Hispanics are obviously a huge problem for Americans. But there are good hispanics and bad hispanics. I remember while watching hispanic television stations, the shows and even the commercials were more White than our own. They have respect for White beauty, and a good portion of hispanics are White. It is a well known fact that White hispanics make up the elite of most hispanics countries. There is good White blood worht saving in Uruguay, Argentina, Chile and even Brasil.

But they are still our enemies.


East Asians

I have great respent for the East Asian races. Even if we were to go extinct they could carry something on. They are by nature very racist and could be great allies of the White race. I am not opposed at all to allies with the Northeast Asian races.


Patriotism

I hate the sight of the American flag. Modern American patriotism is an absolute joke. People pretending like they have something to be proud while White people are being murdered daily in the streets. Many veterans believe we owe them something for “protecting our way of life” or “protecting our freedom”. But im not sure what way of life they are talking about. How about we protect the White race and stop fighting for the jews. I will say this though, I myself would have rather lived in 1940's American than Nazi Germany, and no this is not ignorance speaking, it is just my opinion. So I dont blame the veterans of any wars up until after Vietnam, because at least they had an American to be proud of and fight for.


An Explanation

To take a saying from a film, “I see all this stuff going on, and I dont see anyone doing anything about it. And it pisses me off.”. To take a saying from my favorite film, “Even if my life is worth less than a speck of dirt, I want to use it for the good of society.”.

I have no choice. I am not in the position to, alone, go into the ghetto and fight. I chose Charleston because it is most historic city in my state, and at one time had the highest ratio of blacks to Whites in the country. We have no skinheads, no real KKK, no one doing anything but talking on the internet. Well someone has to have the bravery to take it to the real world, and I guess that has to be me.

Unfortunately at the time of writing I am in a great hurry and some of my best thoughts, actually many of them have been to be left out and lost forever. But I believe enough great White minds are out there already.

Please forgive any typos, I didnt have time to check it.

[miami_fan]

A whole lot to digest there.

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

A whole lot to digest there.

The delusions of a nut job. I think I lost a few IQ points reading it.

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

I'm saying that I know some older people who have guns (and seem to be taking an increasing interest in them - along with food rations, home safes), and it's not for fun, it's not for hunting. It's because of fear - and I don't think it's white people they are afraid of.

You paint with a broad brush and a lot of people are doing this...it adds nothing positive but stokes the fires a bit.

I own two guns, both for home protection...and I couldn't give a rats behind who wanted to take my stuff or harm my family, white criminals aren't getting a free pass either. Never once did I consider....maybe blacks or Mexicans will come to my home. (EDIT: Well, I used to when I was in the military...not so much these days since I'm really not ever home either) Because blacks and Mexicans have been in my home many, many times. It's criminals that I am protecting against. Be careful not to hand out back-handed insults pretending to know what ALL WHITE PEOPLE think. You don't.

[sabotai]

Unfortunately at the time of writing I am in a great hurry and some of my best thoughts, actually many of them have been to be left out and lost forever.

The world weeps...

[nol]

Originally Posted by molson

Edit: I bet that woman would get along better with JIMGA than a lot of the liberals here and all over my facebook wall who think they're perfectly racially enlightened and are in position to judge who isn't up to their level. I mean for god's sake, like Rainmaker was saying, our societal leader on race relations, the one who apparently speaks for all the comfy suburban whites is Jon Stewart. That's just hilarious. We have no credibility.

The part that makes what you and RM say ring so hollow is that you are equally as likely to dismiss people who have the same point of view as Stewart or Ta-Nehisi Coates because they are not famous/wealthy. People like you can just as easily denigrate someone for being a "social justice warrior on social media who doesn't actually do anything to solve the problem" as you can people who are famous and use their voices to address the exact same issues. Is there some perfect level of income that someone's supposed to have in order to have credibility?

Originally Posted by AENeuman

I think it is telling that the person in the cell next to this guy is the cop who murdered a black man. To me, that says there is no way we should rely on institutions to solve this problem, there is too much self interest to be sincere.

We are a country of people that view Walter Scott, Trayvon Martin, Tamir Rice, and so many others as scary threats that need to be taken down, but Dylann Roof? "Oh yeah, he was just a quiet, non-threatening guy who just happened to openly harbor white supremacist views and talk about inciting race wars."

[Ben E Lou]

Did a little digging. That zip file has pics from all over the Charleston area, dating back to March. Several of them indicate that they were taken with a Kodak EasyshareC C1530, and he's holding what appears to be that exact camera in a selfie posted on the site. I'm doubting this is a hoax.

[Edward64]

Still no condemnation from the parents? I get they don't want their pictures pasted everywhere but you would think they would issue some sort of press release saying ... they love their son, what he did was horrible, he needs help, we pray for the victims etc.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Still no condemnation from the parents? I get they don't want their pictures pasted everywhere but you would think they would issue some sort of press release saying ... they love their son, what he did was horrible, he needs help, we pray for the victims etc.

A statement "from his family" came yesterday, I think. Checking now...

[Ben E Lou]

Here it is.

FROM: THE ROOF FAMILY
TO: ALL MEDIA

The Roof Family would like to extend their deepest sympathies and condolences to
families of the victims in Wednesday night’s shooting at the Emanuel AME Church in
Charleston. Words cannot express our shock, grief, and disbelief as to what happened
that night. We are devastated and saddened by what occurred. We offer our prayers
sympathy for all of those impacted by these events.
Our thoughts and prayers are with the families and friends of those killed this week. We
have all been touched by the moving words from the victims’ families offering God’s
forgiveness and love in the face of such horrible suffering.
Our hope and prayer is for peace and healing for the families of the victims, the
Charleston community, and those touched by these events throughout the state of
South Carolina and our nation.
As you can imagine, words are hard to find and we would ask that the media respect
our family’s privacy at this time. Any questions regarding Dylann can be directed to his
attorney Boyd Young at 803-734-7818.

[whomario]

First off, this whole thing is just insanely terrible and made me speechless when i heard about it. Hope that i never have to experience anything like that as a friend, family member or even occupant of the same town ...

Originally Posted by BillJasper

The delusions of a nut job. I think I lost a few IQ points reading it.

I think it would be wrong to toss it aside like that ... This to me seems to be at least partially the case of a kid growing up with little useful information/teaching and then going out and making up his own mind with pretty disastrous consequences... But i don´t think him coming to those conclusions is dependent on him being a massive idiot or inherently evil person that was essentially predisposed to becoming a racist shooting a bunch of people in a church no matter what. He somehow came to those conclusions in a certain "climate"/environment/set of circumstances that could have led (and maybe will lead) a bunch of others down that same path.

His line of thinking is not so different than millions of others now and throughout history who are otherwise functioning members of society. Seriously, if i had read this out of context (and maybe change "blacks" to "slavs") this could have just as well be something written in 17th century poland, early 20th century balcans or 1930s Germany. Or indeed mid 19th century US.

I don´t think there are quick solutions and i think in todays world there is an extremely dangerous trend to dismiss long term plans because of their short term ineffectiveness.

Maybe one could tackle racial issues more proactively in school, although i wouldn´t begin to know how. Because obviously, he did not get the "subtextual" teaching provided by his education as well as culture and popular media, i.e. his quoting of American History X made me nearly vomit ... (i am currently working on my oral bachelor exam which will be based on exactly this dilemma of the possibility of misunderstanding the message of films like AHX. So yeah ...)

[Dutch]

Romney joins call to remove Confederate flag from S.C. Capitol

This will probably add to the challenges of not turning this into this dude's goal of a "race war"...this is exactly what that kid wanted... ugh..

[Ben E Lou]

Wow.

Emanuel AME will open for services on Sunday - WCIV-TV | ABC News 4 - Charleston News, Sports, Weather

[AENeuman]

The second paragraph of the manifesto suggests to me that he was inspired by the narrative of Fox/Hannity/OReily and Info wars (why are we making such a big deal about this white on black crime when black on white crime is so much worse).

I wonder, since he is making a direct link between knowing nothing, then reading this narrative and being violent, if these people hold any responsibility?

[Dutch]

You may have to spell this out for us. How did Fox News inspire him to kill these innocent church-goers?

[Ben E Lou]

Nine people were murdered there on Wednesday night, yet they're getting the doors open on Sunday morning, and you people want to argue about Fox News?????

[Solecismic]

The more this story upsets me, the more I feel I have nothing to say. How do you get to a point, as a nation, where someone feels justified walking into a church (or any building where people are living their lives peacefully) and shooting innocent people? What is there to say?

As for the Roof family statement, I don't want to hear it. Someone like that doesn't get to age 20 and you don't know there's something seriously wrong.

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by Dutch

Romney joins call to remove Confederate flag from S.C. Capitol

This will probably add to the challenges of not turning this into this dude's goal of a "race war"...this is exactly what that kid wanted... ugh..

How exactly does a conservative support the removal of the Confederate flag move us closer to a race war? Hell, I'm impressed Romney came out on that side of the issue.

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

Nine people were murdered there on Wednesday night, yet they're getting the doors open on Sunday morning, and you people want to argue about Fox News?????

Is there a reason they shouldn't be open? If those folks really believe in Heaven, those nine people have just moved on from this existence to the next.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by BillJasper

Is there a reason they shouldn't be open? If those folks really believe in Heaven, those nine people have just moved on from this existence to the next.

I'm talking in terms of logistics, mourning, clean-up, crime scene, etc. etc. etc. I'm mildly surprised that the building itself isn't still closed off by the authorities. As of around yesterday at mid-day, the vehicles of the dead were still in the parking lot.

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

My general response to this is....."so?" Just because some people have racial motivations for wanting to protect their homes doesn't mean we should make it illegal for them to do so out of our spite/condemnation.

No, that's fine. It's absolutely their right. Like my in-laws - he was in the AF and has always had guns in his house. They did have a past home broken into years ago. And they're getting older. But I wonder what the sudden ramp-up seems to be. I know there are concerns about the constant work crews that are in their gated/guarded community, that they might scope out houses for them or their buddies and sack them later. But that's really nothing new.

Like I've said before, I can't see my 70-something MIL sitting with a gun in her lap while watching DWTS, at the ready in case an intruder comes in the house.

As for the prepper-style rations...who knows there. Probably terrorism fears. Maybe it's for when Obama does come for their guns and there's a civil war, who knows. But on the whole it just seems like there's this increasing paranoia that "they" are out to get them/us.

ETA: I guess the question is, where is this paranoia coming from *cough* Fox *cough* and what are folks stocking up for? I'm not saying they would, but I have to think there are some that while they're not looking to touch off something like this guy, might be willing to join in if something starts like they think it might.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by BillJasper

How exactly does a conservative support the removal of the Confederate flag move us closer to a race war? Hell, I'm impressed Romney came out on that side of the issue.

Well, on the one hand, Romney's not a conservative. I would argue that ROMNEY's support of removal of the Confederate flag may well move us closer.

However, he's not alone. Some true Southern conservatives are starting to move on this issue because of the events in Charleston. I don't know if it's enough to affect change, but it does appear to be enough that things might get interesting.

[Toddzilla]

Well, if forceful removal of the confederate flag led to some kind of armed rebellion, at least it would be easy to get rid of the racist nutbags who take up arms.

[Toddzilla]

Dola,

It's threads like this I miss Cam Edwards.

[lungs]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

Well, if forceful removal of the confederate flag led to some kind of armed rebellion, at least it would be easy to get rid of the racist nutbags who take up arms.

Finish the job that wasn't finished in 1865

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by nol

The part that makes what you and RM say ring so hollow is that you are equally as likely to dismiss people who have the same point of view as Stewart or Ta-Nehisi Coates because they are not famous/wealthy. People like you can just as easily denigrate someone for being a "social justice warrior on social media who doesn't actually do anything to solve the problem" as you can people who are famous and use their voices to address the exact same issues. Is there some perfect level of income that someone's supposed to have in order to have credibility?

I find his views empty because they are. What was his solution in his speech? It's as empty as when some musician passionately calls for peace. It's just slacktivism that gives people the perception they are doing something when they are not. For as passionate as Jon Stewart is on his show about race, how about he move into a black neighborhood? His tax dollars could really help and he can show the world he means what he says.

I just find it odd how so many people passionate about race and equality have gone through such troubles to never have to reside around those other races. Do as I say, not as I do.

As I said earlier, Stewart is a funny guy. I agree with a lot of his stuff. But he's the definition of a limousine liberal. He's the guy shaking his fist at rich guys for not paying taxes while putting his multi-million dollar homes into trusts in his pets names (he really does this!) to avoid taxes. He screams about white flight and racism but refuses to live near black people. Is it too much to ask that the people being the loudest voices for a cause also actually follow what they preach?

I think the term "limousine liberal" sums up my views of Stewart.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by AENeuman

Most of US does not care about murders with illegal guns. What makes the news is these mass shootings with legal guns. So not sure Mexico has anything to do with this particular problem.

This murder was committed with a gun that was illegally possessed and obtained.

My point about Mexico is that if guns were banned in this country, they would come from another source. Just like drugs do. Guns are probably easier to smuggle anyway.

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

I'm talking in terms of logistics, mourning, clean-up, crime scene, etc. etc. etc. I'm mildly surprised that the building itself isn't still closed off by the authorities. As of around yesterday at mid-day, the vehicles of the dead were still in the parking lot.

I was actually typing up a response wondering about the logistics....which lead to wondering if having it open helped or hurt the mourning process. Not being a church-goer...I ended up his leaving it alone.

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

No, that's fine. It's absolutely their right. Like my in-laws - he was in the AF and has always had guns in his house. They did have a past home broken into years ago. And they're getting older. But I wonder what the sudden ramp-up seems to be. I know there are concerns about the constant work crews that are in their gated/guarded community, that they might scope out houses for them or their buddies and sack them later. But that's really nothing new.

Like I've said before, I can't see my 70-something MIL sitting with a gun in her lap while watching DWTS, at the ready in case an intruder comes in the house.

As for the prepper-style rations...who knows there. Probably terrorism fears. Maybe it's for when Obama does come for their guns and there's a civil war, who knows. But on the whole it just seems like there's this increasing paranoia that "they" are out to get them/us.

ETA: I guess the question is, where is this paranoia coming from *cough* Fox *cough* and what are folks stocking up for? I'm not saying they would, but I have to think there are some that while they're not looking to touch off something like this guy, might be willing to join in if something starts like they think it might.

Another vote for Fox News is influencing. I'm curious....is biased News a reflection of society or is society a reflection of biased news? We've (FOFC) had this discussion about Hollywood, Rap music, etc, for instance, so I'm curious how this plays out.

[AENeuman]

Originally Posted by Dutch

Another vote for Fox News is influencing. I'm curious....is biased News a reflection of society or is society a reflection of biased news? We've (FOFC) had this discussion about Hollywood, Rap music, etc, for instance, so I'm curious how this plays out.

I'm curious too, which was all I was questioning.

Am I wrong in reading that he did know or care about race stuff until after he heard the "black on white is far more common" narrative? And didn't he then say that inspired him to violence? All I'm asking is, if this is true, then do the authors of his inspiration carry any responsibility?

Maybe this is like music, where the authors are merely entertainers and their message can have multiple meanings. But maybe it's different, maybe this narrative which inspired a hate crime could be considered hate speech.

I see the other side too. If he did this to bring about the Second Coming, I'm sure we wouldn't want to blame every church that preached Revelations.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by AENeuman

Am I wrong in reading that he did know or care about race stuff until after he heard the "black on white is far more common" narrative? And didn't he then say that inspired him to violence? All I'm asking is, if this is true, then do the authors of his inspiration carry any responsibility?

So should the FBI stop putting out interracial crime statistics? Or should nobody be allowed to quote them if it makes the black community look bad?

[Jukeman]

Most whites are killed by other whites. Most blacks are killed by other blacks. Blacks kill more whites than whites kill blacks because blacks are a minority in this country... Its simple math really.

Races kill each other because they live amongst each other.

Anyone can take those stats (or stats about anything) and manipulated them to try to make their point if there is no context being used.

And there is the fact that those stats could be inaccurate considering latinos and other races can identify as white and its also only reporting what is documented.

So yeah, only a person/media with an agenda would put weight on those reports.

[Senator]

Interesting thread.

[Dutch]

Ugh...

[RainMaker]

Does anyone take Salon serious anymore?

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Does anyone take Salon serious anymore?

I hope not, but according to this thread, all it takes is any one.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

As I said earlier, Stewart is a funny guy. I agree with a lot of his stuff. But he's the definition of a limousine liberal. He's the guy shaking his fist at rich guys for not paying taxes while putting his multi-million dollar homes into trusts in his pets names (he really does this!) to avoid taxes. He screams about white flight and racism but refuses to live near black people. Is it too much to ask that the people being the loudest voices for a cause also actually follow what they preach?

I think the term "limousine liberal" sums up my views of Stewart.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

I'm talking in terms of logistics, mourning, clean-up, crime scene, etc. etc. etc. I'm mildly surprised that the building itself isn't still closed off by the authorities. As of around yesterday at mid-day, the vehicles of the dead were still in the parking lot.

Yeah...I guess on one hand, I'm surprised they didn't move it elsewhere. On the flip side, there's probably no bigger chance than now to highlight what they are made of before the media moves on to something else, so...I think it's smart they decided to do it.

Wonder who they'll bring in to preach.

[Warhammer]

This should not be about Fox News, nor should it be about Salon, Slate, CBS, etc.

For years, the newspapers made no bones about having a side. Many cities had multiple newspapers, one for the left side of the spectrum and one for the right. My biggest issue with the media is they purport to be objective, but no outlet truly is. How often do we see a story that is merely, who, ,what, where, and when. Too often, the why of it comes into the equation, and that is the sticky part. The why of a plane crash is informative, the why of a political story leads us to many paths that are subjective and open to interpretation.

Many of our popular shows on TV or radio are about interpreting the news. pTI, Sportsnations, etc., are about what the news means. Cable news is full of it, and let's not even talk about the radio. The problem is we have become lazy and rather than think critically, we allow others to do it for us. Rather than listen or think critically, we take the editorials we hear as gospel and go on down the road. Questioning information is good. The vetting process is an important part of verifying information. Unfortunately, we have ceded this responsibility to those who are providing us the info.

This can have disastrous results when we act on this slanted info.