Utah St vs. Western Michigan university

[Galaril]

My oldest daughter is a freshman at Montana Uni and is planning on transferring to either Western Michigan or Utah St. They are both considered good academic programs for her major. Also tuition and what they each are offering financially are a wash overall. She has been accepted to both.

I would love to hear from any FOFCers that either attended one of the schools or had family that did and thoughts of the schools. Also, anyone who has lived in Logan, Utah or Kalamazoo, Mi. thoughts of the cities would be helpful. I have a decent understanding of Logan but am not to familiar with Kalamazoo. My over protective Dad side worries about crime, being in a more urban area etc. Anyone have any knowledge on either? Most of my views are shaped by my knowledge of the schools football programs which is not too helpful.

[Lathum]

I now nothing about either school but if it was otherwise a wash I would much rather spend a few years in Utah than Michigan.

[BYU 14]

I didn't attend Utah State, but grew up in Utah and the Cache Valley, where USU is located is very nice, lots of outdoor activities and USU is generally well regarded, so if she does not mind being at BYU's little brother school she would probably enjoy it

P.S, I have a friend that graduated from BYU, did graduate studies and teaching at USU, he absolutely loved it, so if she has specific questions about the school, or programs, post them here and I can reach out.

[flere-imsaho]

I know nothing about Logan, Utah, but know a fair number of folks who have lived in Kalamazoo. As I understand it, it's a pretty standard large college town / small university city. Two hours from either Chicago or Detroit.

I'll echo what Lathum said about probably preferring a few years in Utah over Michigan.

[Thomkal]

Here I thought this was about the CJBL...

[Ksyrup]

Bobby Wagner vs Terry Crews.

[sterlingice]

I don't know specifically about Utah State or Logan, but my sister leaves in Salt Lake and has said that living in Utah can be a little challenging if you're not Mormon. They have had some difficulties, especially for their kids, with finding social circles if you're not in the Mormon church. Church is a major part of many communities - but I get the impression there's a lot of social structures there that requires church membership, even if not stated explicitly. She's mentioned it a couple of times when we're swapping parenting notes. That said, I think, overall, they really like it in Salt Lake (which the Google tells me is about an hour from Logan) - beautiful with lots of outdoor activities.

SI

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

I don't know specifically about Utah State or Logan, but my sister leaves in Salt Lake and has said that living in Utah can be a little challenging if you're not Mormon. They have had some difficulties, especially for their kids, with finding social circles if you're not in the Mormon church. Church is a major part of many communities - but I get the impression there's a lot of social structures there that requires church membership, even if not stated explicitly. She's mentioned it a couple of times when we're swapping parenting notes. That said, I think, overall, they really like it in Salt Lake (which the Google tells me is about an hour from Logan) - beautiful with lots of outdoor activities.

SI

Honestly surprised she encounters this in Salt Lake, as it and Ogden, are the most diverse large cities in the state in terms of LDS/Non-LDS, but yeah, that can be a thing.

I am not LDS and there were a couple of times in my time there, that I think that hurt me. Most specifically when I applied for a job with the University of Utah for Campus Police Officer after I got out of the military. Made it through the arduous process to the end, and what was supposed to be a formal meet and greet with leadership there ended up with my offer being pulled.

The only thing I could pinpoint it to, was one of the lieutenants asked me which ward I was in and I got a visibly disappointed look when I said I was not LDS. But honestly outside of that I loved Utah and the people are generally very nice and accepting.

Logan is definitely majority LDS, (high 70 percent) but the college gets a lot of out of state kids, so she should be able to find a good social circle there.

[sterlingice]

Yeah, like I don't think it's a deal-breaker, just something they didn't expect. It's probably less of a deal in college as there are so many socialization opportunities, too.

SI

[Young Drachma]

I think honestly the tiebreaker if it's not just about money might be about the school experience itself. Is she keen to get somewhere that's a better location, more interesting or is it just escaping the isolation of Montana? Because in that way, Logan isn't going to be much better as everything will be a flight away unless she just really digs being outside all of the time.

SLC being closer and a hub is better than anything in remote Montana, but I went to college in Wyoming so I have more context for this than most, that it was nice having a big city within driving distance for concerts and just general hanging out, because our city was small. But given the weather, you're not gonna be casually doing those drives all through the winter.

WMU gives her Chicago and Detroit within striking distance or even Grand Rapids I guess lol. This can be especially helpful post-graduation for job searches and maybe even companies that are in the general area that commonly hire those kinds of grads, but since both schools are basically the level of 'prestige' or lack thereof, it probably doesn't matter.

Obviously by comparison of crime stats, Kalamazoo is significantly off the charts compared to Logan, but university campuses are generally safe unless it's a big commuter school, but I'd think that unless your kid really likes the outdoors, that it'd be a lot easier to be a transfer at Western Michigan than Utah State.

But they're about as opposite locations as you could choose in terms of the experience. So really depends on why she's transferring, mostly that she doesn't get to the 'safer' place and hate it just as much the existing spot.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Kalamazoo is a cool town.

Michigan is cool. Utah is lame.

Go Broncos!

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by Young Drachma

I think honestly the tiebreaker if it's not just about money might be about the school experience itself. Is she keen to get somewhere that's a better location, more interesting or is it just escaping the isolation of Montana? Because in that way, Logan isn't going to be much better as everything will be a flight away unless she just really digs being outside all of the time.

SLC being closer and a hub is better than anything in remote Montana, but I went to college in Wyoming so I have more context for this than most, that it was nice having a big city within driving distance for concerts and just general hanging out, because our city was small. But given the weather, you're not gonna be casually doing those drives all through the winter.

WMU gives her Chicago and Detroit within striking distance or even Grand Rapids I guess lol. This can be especially helpful post-graduation for job searches and maybe even companies that are in the general area that commonly hire those kinds of grads, but since both schools are basically the level of 'prestige' or lack thereof, it probably doesn't matter.

Obviously by comparison of crime stats, Kalamazoo is significantly off the charts compared to Logan, but university campuses are generally safe unless it's a big commuter school, but I'd think that unless your kid really likes the outdoors, that it'd be a lot easier to be a transfer at Western Michigan than Utah State.

But they're about as opposite locations as you could choose in terms of the experience. So really depends on why she's transferring, mostly that she doesn't get to the 'safer' place and hate it just as much the existing spot.

Lots of great points. I think the main driving factor is these two schools have excellent programs in her fairly unique major musical therapy psychology ( new sub field of psych) . But she did generally like Montana and she was not looking to live in a big city like Chicago. That being said her post grad employment options are going to be greater near WMU.

[stevew]

My kid transferred after her freshman year. Was kind of annoying but her second choice(Slippery Rock) was better anyways. It is annoying to pay the various fees for transferring(dorm deposits,etc)

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by Galaril

Lots of great points. I think the main driving factor is these two schools have excellent programs in her fairly unique major musical therapy psychology ( new sub field of psych) . But she did generally like Montana and she was not looking to live in a big city like Chicago. That being said her post grad employment options are going to be greater near WMU.

Ah! This is a good thing that it's driven by the program, then. If she generally liked Montana, Utah won't be dramatically different save for the higher % of LDS folks. USU is also a big transfer school, so she might have an easier time making new friends there.

As a D1 transfer myself, it was amazing to make all my close friends within the first few months of arriving at school because they put all the transfers together in our building.

[Izulde]

Originally Posted by Young Drachma

Ah! This is a good thing that it's driven by the program, then. If she generally liked Montana, Utah won't be dramatically different save for the higher % of LDS folks. USU is also a big transfer school, so she might have an easier time making new friends there.

As a D1 transfer myself, it was amazing to make all my close friends within the first few months of arriving at school because they put all the transfers together in our building.

And that, kids, is how I met your Drachma

[Solecismic]

Originally Posted by Galaril

Lots of great points. I think the main driving factor is these two schools have excellent programs in her fairly unique major musical therapy psychology ( new sub field of psych) . But she did generally like Montana and she was not looking to live in a big city like Chicago. That being said her post grad employment options are going to be greater near WMU.

WMU: Chicago is the bigger draw, for weekends in interesting places. The west side of Michigan is much more conservative, though colleges are islands away from that.

It's a nice campus. Kalamazoo has its dangerous areas, and the one you really have to avoid is not that far from campus, but separated by a stretch north of campus. WMU itself is not downtown, which is an advantage as well. There's plenty of room to walk around. I like the west, but travel is so much more an ordeal.

Musical therapy sounds interesting (pun apparently intended). I've studied the brain quite a bit in recent years and how it responds to stimuli and stores information, so much like a computer. We tend to think of everything from the perspective of our dominant sense, but how we receive different wavelengths in different ways and then accumulate and process that - it doesn't surprise me that something like sound therapy could have a lot of value.

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

WMU: Chicago is the bigger draw, for weekends in interesting places. The west side of Michigan is much more conservative, though colleges are islands away from that.

It's a nice campus. Kalamazoo has its dangerous areas, and the one you really have to avoid is not that far from campus, but separated by a stretch north of campus. WMU itself is not downtown, which is an advantage as well. There's plenty of room to walk around. I like the west, but travel is so much more an ordeal.

Musical therapy sounds interesting (pun apparently intended). I've studied the brain quite a bit in recent years and how it responds to stimuli and stores information, so much like a computer. We tend to think of everything from the perspective of our dominant sense, but how we receive different wavelengths in different ways and then accumulate and process that - it doesn't surprise me that something like sound therapy could have a lot of value.

Thanks that is very helpful sir.