Charlottesville

[JPhillips]

Dylan Roof?

[CrescentMoonie]

No reason to even try. Some people will protect their bullshit views despite a mountain of evidence to the contrary.

[CU Tiger]

what view am I protecting?
I don't understand your point.

[OldGiants]

[quote=nilodor;3170415]Forgive my ignorance, I've heard that there is some rioting in Virginia, is this kinda what's happened?

University decides to remove a statue of Robert E Lee.


Nothing to do with UVa. The City of Charlottesville City Council announced they wanted to do this.

[thesloppy]

It was about 30 years ago now, but Ethiopian student Mulugeta Seraw was murdered by skinheads less than a mile from where I'm sitting/living right now. I had numerous friends who had been brained by skinheads with baseball bats, simply for being in the wrong place in the wrong time. I also had a co-worker, who was a SHARP at the time, who murdered a racist skinhead at a gas station.

My memories of the last time neo-Nazis held some sway in my life are full of violence, death and chaos. That chaos was particular to the white supremacists/skinheads, and came and went directly with their rise and fall, rather than being any kind of overall cultural barometer. Even if it's been 3 decades since I had to directly face such ignorance and violence, I surely never gave them any kind of reset, and I definitely balk at any portrayal of neo-nazis as largely harmless or inconsequential.

[whomario]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

I think there is a key definitive difference between the neo-nazis in Charlottesville this weekend and the Nazis of 1930-1940s Germany.

The Neo's havent killed anyone. Sure they've ran their mouth about believing lots of folks should be dead, but they arent actively out there trying to start concentration camps.

You seriously need to re-read what happened between the mid 1920s and the first concentration camp and think again. Hint: It started with "running their mouths" and started with a relatively small group. Heck, there was even the equivalent of blogs around (Flyers).

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

Counter side is how many buildings did those torches burn Friday?

Man ... Seriously ... As if things like symbolism, intimidation and other "soft factors" never attributed to things going downhill, fast. You can't seperate this from history nor from their own statements.

[tarcone]

Are you really comparing 1920s Germany to 2010s USA?
Do you know what was going on in Germany in the 20s and 30s? Any clue at all?
From the above statement I dont think you do.

[JPhillips]

Arguing German history with a German should be entertaining.

[tarcone]

I saw an interesting chart from the ADL.
They looked at extremist groups that committed murders in 2016.
Here is the break down:
71% committed by domestic islamic extremism (Orlando nightclub shooting is all this)
12% Black Nationalism
10% White supremacy
7% Anti-government extremism.

2015 was different with White Supremacy at 42% and Black extremist at 23%

I dont know why there is never the big stink about black extremism. Seems just as bad as white supremacy.

Why?

[tarcone]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Arguing German history with a German should be entertaining.

Im in.

And when you bring a sane arguement to any of these discussions, I imagine pigs will be flying.

You are the reason Trump was elected. Your snarky, condescending manner turns people off on what could be some great ideas by the left. But you choose the lazy, hypocrite way.
Talk down to people and criticize anyone who thinks differently.

If you want a dem elected, I would suggest you keep your mouth closed. Because you truly are the reason we have Trump. The sad part is, you dont even recognize it.

[RedKingGold]

Originally Posted by tarcone

Im in.

And when you bring a sane arguement to any of these discussions, I imagine pigs will be flying.

You are the reason Trump was elected. Your snarky, condescending manner turns people off on what could be some great ideas by the left. But you choose the lazy, hypocrite way.
Talk down to people and criticize anyone who thinks differently.

If you want a dem elected, I would suggest you keep your mouth closed. Because you truly are the reason we have Trump. The sad part is, you dont even recognize it.

Better watch it, or Tarcone will bring a peaceful protest to your neighborhood.

[ISiddiqui]

Did you read the report by the ADL?

https://www.adl.org/sites/default/fi...smInUS2016.pdf

Though not the most lethal, in some ways the most troubling
extremist-related murders that occurred in 2016 were the
murders of large numbers of police officers at the hands of black
nationalists. Eight police officers were killed in two incidents
this past year in which extremists deliberately targeted police
officers for murder. In July 2016, Micah Xavier Johnson, who had
ties to black nationalist groups such as the New Black Panther
Party, killed five police officers (and injured nine others) in Dallas,
Texas, in an ambush attack aimed at police maintaining public
order at a Black Lives Matter protest. That same month, Gavin
Eugene Long ambushed and shot six police officers, three of
them fatally, in Baton Rouge. Long was an adherent of black
nationalism as well as the anti-government sovereign citizen
movement (see below).

And yeah, those police shootings were loudly decried. You'll note that Black Nationalism was at 0% in 2015 (you read the chart completely wrong... 23% was Anti-government extremists killing in 2015). So... perhaps the stink isn't as much because White Supremacy killings are far more over the two year period?

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by tarcone

You are the reason Trump was elected. Your snarky, condescending manner turns people off on what could be some great ideas by the left. But you choose the lazy, hypocrite way.
Talk down to people and criticize anyone who thinks differently.

If you want a dem elected, I would suggest you keep your mouth closed. Because you truly are the reason we have Trump. The sad part is, you dont even recognize it.

Oh, the irony...

[AENeuman]

Originally Posted by tarcone

In response to all the snarky comments about fault.

In life you have choices and all of those choices have consequences. So when you make a choice, you better be prepared to live with the consequences. If you are going to counter protest an organization based on violence and hate, guess what the consequence might be.

No one is free from fault.

All choices have consequences.

There is something behind your motivation to go to such an extreme and illogical place. I imagine it makes it easier to maintain your political party/patriotism, etc.

I actually feel the same way about bombings in the Middle East. There is a level of self preservation and selfishness in dismissing the violence. It allows me to feel not responsible while still maintaining my chosen labels.

I guess what i am saying is- when surrounded by chaos, real or not, empathy is not only impossible, but it can be an impediment.

[tarcone]

Im not sure where to button hole myself. I didnt vote for Trump. I disagree completely with both white supremacy and black lives matters.
I may npt be empathetic. That is true. And I am selfish. I agree.

I guess Im tired of the whole anti-white male tone of this country in general. And it is broadcast loud and clear on this board.

Im sure I will get drilled for that last comment. Probably going to be called a few names. But this white privilege BS is tiring.

And than ks for the clarification ISiddigul. My color blindness got me. I was wondering why the abortion clinic heading was there.

[HerRealName]

Originally Posted by tarcone

Im not sure where to button hole myself. I didnt vote for Trump. I disagree completely with both white supremacy and black lives matters.
I may npt be empathetic. That is true. And I am selfish. I agree.

I guess Im tired of the whole anti-white male tone of this country in general. And it is broadcast loud and clear on this board.

Im sure I will get drilled for that last comment. Probably going to be called a few names. But this white privilege BS is tiring.

And than ks for the clarification ISiddigul. My color blindness got me. I was wondering why the abortion clinic heading was there.

What is it about BLM that you disagree with?

[tarcone]

Originally Posted by HerRealName

What is it about BLM that you disagree with?

Their tactics and the whole Michael Brown thing. Making sure the victimization card continually gets played. The praying on a divided society and helping to keep it divided. The whole University of Missouri incident. What a joke that was.

Instead of trying to help, they only want to divide.

But it is a movement brought out by the times. Which is too bad. I wish our country could come together and be united. But with the hate for anything white, left, right, black, islamic, christian, etc. is tiring.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by tarcone

You are the reason Trump was elected. Your snarky, condescending manner turns people off on what could be some great ideas by the left. But you choose the lazy, hypocrite way.
Talk down to people and criticize anyone who thinks differently.

If you want a dem elected, I would suggest you keep your mouth closed. Because you truly are the reason we have Trump. The sad part is, you dont even recognize it.

If people are voting for a candidate because someone was snarky to them, they're a moron. And it's decisions like that which are why their lives are where they are.

[tarcone]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

If people are voting for a candidate because someone was snarky to them, they're a moron. And it's decisions like that which are why their lives are where they are.

You are absolutely correct. And that is why we had a choice of Trump or HRC. What a shit show that was. And because the left is such a bunch of hypocrites that put down anyone who thinks differently than them, people came out and voted.

[HerRealName]

Do you disagree that there are very concerning examples of police brutality against African Americans? Do you think it is possible that this brutality has always existed but it is now exposed to everyone because of the number of available cameras?

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by tarcone

Their tactics and the whole Michael Brown thing. Making sure the victimization card continually gets played. The praying on a divided society and helping to keep it divided. The whole University of Missouri incident. What a joke that was.

Instead of trying to help, they only want to divide.

But it is a movement brought out by the times. Which is too bad. I wish our country could come together and be united. But with the hate for anything white, left, right, black, islamic, christian, etc. is tiring.

This is a fair statement but it goes against what you've been doing in this thread. If you hate the victimization card and the dividing of society, why are you so passionately rushing to defend Nazis from the other day?

I mean you're mad about the victimization card here but your last post is complaining about how you're victimized as a white male.

[JPhillips]

So is it brave or foolish to criticize BLM when they are so violent? Do you fear for your life now?

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

Counter side is how many buildings did those torches burn Friday?

If buildings don't want to get burned down, they shouldn't be built where protests might take place. Actions have consequences. Right, tarcone?

[AENeuman]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

Counter side is how many buildings did those torches burn Friday?

Well, they do make a fine product
TIKI 60 in. Cayman Bamboo Torch-1113025 - The Home Depot

[molson]

I'm sure I'm copying a million twitter jokes but what is the connection between Polynesian fire-based lighting sources and white supremacy? Why is that their thing? Is it a reference to cross-burning?

[RainMaker]

I also think one of the differences is that Black Nationalists don't really have much of a voice in power. There are many White Nationalists in some of the highest positions in Government. Also while there are cases of violence on both sides, one ideology is responsible for millions and millions of people sitting in mass graves in Europe.

I fear the side that has the actual power right now and history.

[tarcone]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

This is a fair statement but it goes against what you've been doing in this thread. If you hate the victimization card and the dividing of society, why are you so passionately rushing to defend Nazis from the other day?

I mean you're mad about the victimization card here but your last post is complaining about how you're victimized as a white male.

Touche. But I dont feel victimized as much as Im just pissed about the rhetoric out there. I really need to quit watching those youtube videos.

Im not defending Nazis, Im defending their right to assemble.

[tarcone]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

So is it brave or foolish to criticize BLM when they are so violent? Do you fear for your life now?

If I went to one of their protests to counter protest, i would fear for my safety. Absolutely.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by molson

I'm sure I'm copying a million twitter jokes but what is the connection between Polynesian fire-based lighting sources and white supremacy? Why is that their thing? Is it a reference to cross-burning?

I think the tiki torch was just a cheaper and safer alternative to them lighting real torches. The torches are an homage to the old KKK and cross burning.

As for how torches became a thing in the KKK, that's another story. The early KKK had a thing for the old Scottish clans. Scottish clans used to walk the countryside with torches and burn crosses to intimidate rivals and rally their own troops. The liked it and KKK copied that. It became real popular after Birth of a Nation came out (which is also based off a book called The Clansman) which glorified the burning of a cross. It's basically just an intimidation tactic.

[tarcone]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

If buildings don't want to get burned down, they shouldn't be built where protests might take place. Actions have consequences. Right, tarcone?

See, this is it right here. What a condescending comment. Seriously.

And I didnt say actions have consequences. I said choices have consequences.

And you know what the consequences of those burned buildings in Ferguson were? A great community almost ruined by a bunch of thugs with no respect for anyone or thing.
Ferguson is not a ghetto. It is pretty much a middle class community with a depressed area.
So some thugs out protesting burn down buildings of hard working Americans to prove that they deserve respect. No hypocrisy there.

[tarcone]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I also think one of the differences is that Black Nationalists don't really have much of a voice in power. There are many White Nationalists in some of the highest positions in Government. Also while there are cases of violence on both sides, one ideology is responsible for millions and millions of people sitting in mass graves in Europe.

I fear the side that has the actual power right now and history.

Really? Jesse Jackson? Al Sharpton? While not in government, they have a loud voice.

Who are the white nationalists?

And wasnt Stalin a communist. And that is a pretty far left wing ideology. And, oh yeah, he put more in a grave than Hitler did.

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by tarcone

Really? Jesse Jackson? Al Sharpton? While not in government, they have a loud voice.

What? Both of them are considered jokes now. They have no power. One of Bill Clinton's best political moves was distancing himself from Jesse and pretty much every Dem nominee (including Obama) has done likewise.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by tarcone

Really? Jesse Jackson? Al Sharpton? While not in government, they have a loud voice.

I don't think they are that powerful. I also don't think their message is as extreme as white nationalists.

Originally Posted by tarcone

Who are the white nationalists?

Bannon, Miller, and Gorka.

Originally Posted by tarcone

And wasnt Stalin a communist. And that is a pretty far left wing ideology. And, oh yeah, he put more in a grave than Hitler did.

I don't think there are a lot of Stalinists in this country. I can't thing of any group or politician who supports it. I mean I'm sure if I dug around online there is a community lurking somewhere but they have zero power and no visibility.

[tarcone]

Obama then. Jeremiah Wright is a pretty radical. And Obama only decided to drop his membership when the stuff hit the fan. He was there for Wrights controversial sermons.

Why didnt he quit then? Why did he wait until it was imprudent to have him in his camp?

Yeah, yeah, Im going to catch a rash of shit for this. But limit your remarks to my questions and to defending his decisions. No personal attacks.

I was asked a question. My 2 other choices were debunked. So here is another.

You guys say Trump is a white supremacist. So this is just as fair as that.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by tarcone

See, this is it right here. What a condescending comment. Seriously.

And I didnt say actions have consequences. I said choices have consequences.

And you know what the consequences of those burned buildings in Ferguson were? A great community almost ruined by a bunch of thugs with no respect for anyone or thing.
Ferguson is not a ghetto. It is pretty much a middle class community with a depressed area.
So some thugs out protesting burn down buildings of hard working Americans to prove that they deserve respect. No hypocrisy there.

Your reaction to the victim of a terrorist attack was that she was at fault for attending. That her choices have consequences. I used your exact argument to defend the rioters in Ferguson just as you did to defend the Nazi in Charlottesville. Be consistent with your beliefs.

I also don't know what you're arguing with me about Ferguson for. I think rioters who burned down buildings are utter scum. You can go through the Ferguson thread and see me saying the same thing. I'm consistent in my beliefs. I hold an Islamic terrorist or black nationalist terrorist with the same disdain as I do a a Nazi terrorist. I don't blame the victims of the terrorist attacks. Whether that's a cop in Dallas, a room full of people in an Orlando nightclub, or a woman counterprotesting at an event. The terrorist is the bad person and responsible for the action.

You blamed her for choosing to attend. That's no different than blaming the cop in Dallas for choosing to be a cop when there are anti-cop terrorists in the country. Or blaming a group of people for choosing to attend a gay nightclub in Orlando because there are potential Islamic terrorists in this country.

[tarcone]

Originally Posted by HerRealName

Do you disagree that there are very concerning examples of police brutality against African Americans? Do you think it is possible that this brutality has always existed but it is now exposed to everyone because of the number of available cameras?

Yes there are . Just like there are cases of police brutality against whites and latinos and everyone else. Blacks just play the victim card.

Of course it has. You have seen the pictures of cops putting fire hoses on blacks or sending their dogs after them.

Do you know more white people are killed by police every year than blacks?

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by tarcone

Obama then. Jeremiah Wright is a pretty radical. And Obama only decided to drop his membership when the stuff hit the fan. He was there for Wrights controversial sermons.

True. I don't agree with Jeremiah Wright at all. If he had been made an advisor to the President I would be quite upset and not supported the decision. He did address the topic in a rather important speech and I think people can judge for themselves what they think of it.

There are also plenty of speeches, writings, and 8 years of a Presidency to determine whether you think Obama shared the views of Jeremiah Wright.

Originally Posted by tarcone

You guys say Trump is a white supremacist. So this is just as fair as that.

I didn't say Trump was a white supremacist, I said he hired a bunch of them to hold high positions in his administration.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by tarcone

Blacks just play the victim card.

Originally Posted by tarcone

I guess Im tired of the whole anti-white male tone of this country in general.

.

[tarcone]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Your reaction to the victim of a terrorist attack was that she was at fault for attending. That her choices have consequences. I used your exact argument to defend the rioters in Ferguson just as you did to defend the Nazi in Charlottesville. Be consistent with your beliefs.

I also don't know what you're arguing with me about Ferguson for. I think rioters who burned down buildings are utter scum. You can go through the Ferguson thread and see me saying the same thing. I'm consistent in my beliefs. I hold an Islamic terrorist or black nationalist terrorist with the same disdain as I do a a Nazi terrorist. I don't blame the victims of the terrorist attacks. Whether that's a cop in Dallas, a room full of people in an Orlando nightclub, or a woman counterprotesting at an event. The terrorist is the bad person and responsible for the action.

You blamed her for choosing to attend. That's no different than blaming the cop in Dallas for choosing to be a cop when there are anti-cop terrorists in the country. Or blaming a group of people for choosing to attend a gay nightclub in Orlando because there are potential Islamic terrorists in this country.

You cant equate choosing to go to a night club with going to a neo nazi protest.
And I am not blaming anyone. I said choices have consequences.

You want to go against a violent group of people, expect the worst.

But understand, she made that choice. Im sure she didnt think "I may get run over today" But she did.
If I walk into a bar in a black part of town and yell a racial slur, I imagine things wont go well for me.
These people that went against a violent bunch of whack jobs had to know things could go bad. If not, they are really naive.

[tarcone]

Being tired of something is far from being a victim.
And I dont throw that out when I feel like something isnt going my way.

I dont play the victim card. Im not a victim. But I am accused of many things I have never done. You know, like own slaves.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by tarcone

You can equate choosing to go to a night club with going to a neo nazi protest.

It has been much more dangerous to attend a gay nightclub in this country than a Nazi rally.

[miked]

My dad used to tell me, it's better to have people think you're a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Trump friend Alex Jones says Charlottesville was faked and that Jews fake being Nazis regularly.

Seriously? Someone needs to put that man in a boat, send it to the middle of the ocean and sink it.

[HerRealName]

Originally Posted by tarcone

Blacks just play the victim card.

How do you quantify this statement? You say "blacks play the victim card" but wouldn't the Occupy movement, the Tea party rallies, and white supremacists rallies indicate that whites play the victim card quite a bit? How did you come to your conclusion?

[whomario]

Let me preface the following by saying that i will not draw direct comparison's to the US and/or it's political landscape/figures. I am however aware that a few spring to mind but i really don't feel like opening that particular can of worms.

Originally Posted by tarcone

Are you really comparing 1920s Germany to 2010s USA?
Do you know what was going on in Germany in the 20s and 30s? Any clue at all?
From the above statement I dont think you do.

Where did i actually make that comparison ? You claimed that american Neo-Nazis today and the Nazis in the 30s/40s are apples and oranges because the former have not killed anyone but merely talked about killing lots of people. At which point i felt i needed to point out that this is a bullshit comparison because what you ought to look at is how it looked in the 1920s and not in the 30s/40s. Because for quite some time this was exactly what Hitler and company did: talking about all they would do and decrying their and with them every germans bad faith (war reparation, bad economy, everybody against Germany, german race being devalued etc.)
Read this and tell me this is no substantially connected in both ideology and "scope". National Socialist Program - Wikipedia


And while i grant you that it seems unlikely we will see the "4th Reich, America Edition" any time soon, i can also guarantee you that it seemed equally unlikely for the longest time in Germany before suddenly it didn't. The program above was presented in 1920 in front of a mere 2000 people in a large pub-like venue and as late as 1928 his party (NSDAP) garnered a mere 2.5% of the vote in the general election and only 1.1% in the 1929 presidential election, which is a mere 4 years before gaining absolute power.

Incidentily, the biggest swing event's afterwards were a political event for which Hitler and his party attached themselves to more prominent/powerfull/established right-wing and conservative parties (a referendum aiming to denounce the Versaille Treaty), gaining exposure in the process, and an act of violence in the shooting/execution of Horst Wessel, a member of the NSDAP and the "Storm Troopers", by a squad of thugs of the Communist Party. And yes, the radicalization on both parts combined with glaring inactivity/being set in their way nature of mainstream political parties played a huge part as well. By which i am acknowledging btw that there is a thin line between protesting against something and being part of the problem by way of further opening a divide that entices more and more people to radicalise one way or another.

I assure you that the NSDAP during most of the 1920s seemed little more "dangerous" than the American Neo-Nazi groups seem today. And Hitler and his companions did not come across as evil geniuses destined to take over power either (if they were known at all). Hitler based his entire being around Germany being neglected by it's politicians and was heavily influenced by conspiracy theories, many of which he believed and the others he still used to his advantage.

I did not compare the two situations in the slightest, you read that into my response. I merely responded to your comparison of the two "groups". And to point out the issue with your comparison, i pointed out that you are comparing Neo-Nazis trying to get power with the Nazis after seizing power (well, i should have pointed it out rather than throwing a two-liner about looking at a different time period, that's my fault)

Thus your comparison is not at all sensible to make. Fact of the matter is the groups are inherently similar (i mean, duh ...) and can be seperated, among a myrid of nuances to be sure, by a few main things not really about them: The willingness of the ordinary people to support them and the social/ethnic makeup of the country they are operating in. Which i would like to continue to stand between them and any sort of power in the US or anywhere else for that matter, thank you very much. Because the fuckers itself are just as delusional and are absolutely potentially dangerous and getting ever more so with the deteriorating political and social landscape in your country.

You saying: The US is different and it is unlikely to get worse ? Correct. You saying: The current ones are more harmless because they merely talk ? Bullshit. They are facing tougher resistance despite seeming quite inconsequential in scope to many people and have (thankfully) a much tougher path and that is at least partially due to the fact that they are so transparent and have a clear historical example that makes at least some people stop and think about how quickly you can go from talking to doing and taking it seriously. (and yeah, this also goes for law enforcement/government) There is a reason that the more successfull right-wing parties in Europe actually try to avoid this close connection to past symbolism and preach a more "restrained" ideology.

[tarcone]

Originally Posted by HerRealName

How do you quantify this statement? You say "blacks play the victim card" but wouldn't the Occupy movement, the Tea party rallies, and white supremacists rallies indicate that whites play the victim card quite a bit? How did you come to your conclusion?

True. A generalization by me and not thought out. That was not my intention.

i did not mean to type that. Buy Im not sure how to whittle it down.

[tarcone]

Originally Posted by whomario

Let me preface the following by saying that i will not draw direct comparison's to the US and/or it's political landscape/figures. I am however aware that a few spring to mind but i really don't feel like opening that particular can of worms.



Where did i actually make that comparison ? You claimed that american Neo-Nazis today and the Nazis in the 30s/40s are apples and oranges because the former have not killed anyone but merely talked about killing lots of people. At which point i felt i needed to point out that this is a bullshit comparison because what you ought to look at is how it looked in the 1920s and not in the 30s/40s. Because for quite some time this was exactly what Hitler and company did: talking about all they would do and decrying their and with them every germans bad faith (war reparation, bad economy, everybody against Germany, german race being devalued etc.)
Read this and tell me this is no substantially connected in both ideology and "scope". National Socialist Program - Wikipedia


And while i grant you that it seems unlikely we will see the "4th Reich, America Edition" any time soon, i can also guarantee you that it seemed equally unlikely for the longest time in Germany before suddenly it didn't. The program above was presented in 1920 in front of a mere 2000 people in a large pub-like venue and as late as 1928 his party (NSDAP) garnered a mere 2.5% of the vote in the general election and only 1.1% in the 1929 presidential election, which is a mere 4 years before gaining absolute power.

Incidentily, the biggest swing event's afterwards were a political event for which Hitler and his party attached themselves to more prominent/powerfull/established right-wing and conservative parties (a referendum aiming to denounce the Versaille Treaty), gaining exposure in the process, and an act of violence in the shooting/execution of Horst Wessel, a member of the NSDAP and the "Storm Troopers", by a squad of thugs of the Communist Party. And yes, the radicalization on both parts combined with glaring inactivity/being set in their way nature of mainstream political parties played a huge part as well. By which i am acknowledging btw that there is a thin line between protesting against something and being part of the problem by way of further opening a divide that entices more and more people to radicalise one way or another.

I assure you that the NSDAP during most of the 1920s seemed little more "dangerous" than the American Neo-Nazi groups seem today. And Hitler and his companions did not come across as evil geniuses destined to take over power either (if they were known at all). Hitler based his entire being around Germany being neglected by it's politicians and was heavily influenced by conspiracy theories, many of which he believed and the others he still used to his advantage.

I did not compare the two situations in the slightest, you read that into my response. I merely responded to your comparison of the two "groups". And to point out the issue with your comparison, i pointed out that you are comparing Neo-Nazis trying to get power with the Nazis after seizing power (well, i should have pointed it out rather than throwing a two-liner about looking at a different time period, that's my fault)

Thus your comparison is not at all sensible to make. Fact of the matter is the groups are inherently similar (i mean, duh ...) and can be seperated, among a myrid of nuances to be sure, by a few main things not really about them: The willingness of the ordinary people to support them and the social/ethnic makeup of the country they are operating in. Which i would like to continue to stand between them and any sort of power in the US or anywhere else for that matter, thank you very much. Because the fuckers itself are just as delusional and are absolutely potentially dangerous and getting ever more so with the deteriorating political and social landscape in your country.

You saying: The US is different and it is unlikely to get worse ? Correct. You saying: The current ones are more harmless because they merely talk ? Bullshit. They are facing tougher resistance despite seeming quite inconsequential in scope to many people and have (thankfully) a much tougher path and that is at least partially due to the fact that they are so transparent and have a clear historical example that makes at least some people stop and think about how quickly you can go from talking to doing and taking it seriously. (and yeah, this also goes for law enforcement/government) There is a reason that the more successfull right-wing parties in Europe actually try to avoid this close connection to past symbolism and preach a more "restrained" ideology.

Thanks. Interesting.

It wasnt me that made the original points though. That was CUTiger.

In this country, we have always had white supremacist groups. These neo nazis are not a new thing.

The world was a different place in between the wars. And Germany got raped by the world and was suffering. Their collective state of mind was in the dumps. The country was a mess. Then this radical group shows up. With a charismatic leader. And he talks about German pride and how the people are getting screwed.

This is a whole different country in a whole different time. Nazism will not win out here. At least, I dont think it will.

I see this organization as more like a bunch of independent cells doing there thing. There is no cohesion or unity of the groups.

Im not sure that can be said of Germany in the 20s.

[tarcone]

Originally Posted by miked

My dad used to tell me, it's better to have people think you're a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

Why?

If you dont like it, dont read it.

Im having a discussion with people. And Im sharing my thoughts and beliefs. And reflecting on theirs. And mayne reshaping my belief system.

What are you doing?

Oh yeah, what the left does best, being condescending and calling people names when they think differently.

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by tarcone

I see this organization as more like a bunch of independent cells doing there thing. There is no cohesion or unity of the groups.

It only takes one person, and one moment to change that dynamic crucially.

While it's true that white nationalists have existed in America forever in some form or another, if we accept that the answer to that question doesn't have to be a binary, yes/no answer, and can instead be answered in relative terms, it seems undeniable that white nationalists obviously have a much bigger and more powerful cultural presence in America right now than they have at any time in the last 20 years, and that is something I personally hesitate to push aside as just normal American happenings.

[RedKingGold]

Originally Posted by tarcone

Why?
Oh yeah, what the left does best, being condescending and calling people names when they think differently.

When you make a comment like this, you completely shut down any conversation and engage in the same behavior of what you criticize.