Is Steve Tasker Hall of Fame Material?

stevew · 01-17-2005, 12:56 AM

7-time Pro Bowler: 1987, 1990, 1991, 1992, 1993, 1994, 1995

(Okay, all the effin "hall of famer" threads are out of control)

Franklinnoble · 01-17-2005, 02:54 AM

In all seriousness, I'd say yeah, he's HOF material. If he's still a widely-known name by most football fans ten years after his last Pro Bowl (and, it's not for notorious reasons), then, yeah, he must have done something right.

Ragone · 01-17-2005, 02:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Franklinnoble

In all seriousness, I'd say yeah, he's HOF material. If he's still a widely-known name by most football fans ten years after his last Pro Bowl (and, it's not for notorious reasons), then, yeah, he must have done something right.

Ickey woods for Hall of fame!

Franklinnoble · 01-17-2005, 03:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ragone

Ickey woods for Hall of fame!

I didn't realize Ickey Woods had made the Pro Bowl.

Ah, well. Flush that argument down the toilet, I suppose.

Desnudo · 01-17-2005, 03:55 AM

Woods was an innovator who broke down barriers. Where would Owens or Joe Horn be today without Woods?

oykib · 01-17-2005, 06:16 AM

Des, you're forgetting Billy "White Shoes" Johnson.

Tasker is not a Hall of Famer. Had he been even an average #2 reciever or other contributor during the other three downs my opinion would likely be different.

I'd put Brian Mitchell in a higher class than him and I don't think anyone would argue that he's a HOFer.

oykib · 01-17-2005, 06:18 AM

Dola--

Actually, Eric Metcalf is the guy that is the standard bearer for special teams paragons. He wouldn't make it on my ballot if I had a vote.

Jets80 · 01-17-2005, 07:30 AM

Listen. Steve Tasker is NOT a Hall of Famer. I'm still not sure if you are serious or are just joking.

rkmsuf · 01-17-2005, 07:42 AM

Tasker is not a hall of famer.

albionmoonlight · 01-17-2005, 07:57 AM

I don't think that Tasker is a hall of famer either, though I would not dismiss him quite as quickly as some here.

He was, as we all know, one of--if not--the greatest special teams players in football for the better part of a decade. He played some WR near the end of his career, but that never amounted to much. If he makes it, it will be because he was one of the best ever at what he did (special teams). Not for any other reason.

The question then becomes, to me, how important are special teams? They must mean something in the HOF analysis, otherwise there would be no kickers or punters in the HOF. But it does not mean as much as offense or defense because there are not a lot of kickers and punters in the HOF.

In the end, I say no to Tasker in the HOF because I just don't think that kick coverage and return teams play enough to merit inclusion barring some extraordinary feats in that role. I would also have to closely examine how good he really was. It strikes me that one can get to the pro bowl as a special teamer based mainly on reputation. People might have just checked Tasker off on their ballots out of reflex once he got the reputation. Not saying that he wasn't that good--just that I'd have to check to make sure.

By making that decision, I am pretty much excluding any special teamer from my future HOF ballots. I am OK with that decision because--as I said--I don't think that they play enough plays to really be considered one of the greatest players of all time.

But I must admit that, as I write this, I have not quite convinced myself. It just does not seem quite right to take someone who did his job better than anyone else for ten years (again--assuming that he did) and say that that is not good enough just because the job is not important enough. Seems to invalidate a third of the game.

rkmsuf · 01-17-2005, 08:07 AM

If you are a great football player there is room for you on offense or defense as well as special teams.

oykib · 01-17-2005, 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

But I must admit that, as I write this, I have not quite convinced myself. It just does not seem quite right to take someone who did his job better than anyone else for ten years (again--assuming that he did) and say that that is not good enough just because the job is not important enough. Seems to invalidate a third of the game.

You're not invalidating a whole third of the game. You're just saying that kick and punt coverage aren't enough.

Tasker didn't return punts or kicks-- at least at a high level. He covered them. That's only half the job, and he wasn't the only guy that ever made plays on those for his team.

You've got much more of a debate when you talk about the return specialist.

If we translate it into yards, that guy is worth much more than the coverage guy. The coverage guy is gonna save a few more touchbacks, force a fair number of extra fair catches, and nail a few extra guys-- maybe causing an extra turnover-- in the course of a year.

The best return specialist is responsible for hundreds of yards and a few scores than the average return guy. He can also save the turnovers over the regular guy equivalent to the fumbles forced by the coverage guy.

But the real difference is this:

The coverage guy is usually a fearless guy who puts his body on the line more than the average NFLer. But he doesn't really have amazing skills.

The return guy is always an exceptionally quick/fast gamebreaker and usually finds other ways to contribute to the team, often as a starter.

If you think of the top return guys, what names do you come up with:

Deion Sanders
Eric and Terry Metcalf
Gale Sayers
Daryl Green

Those are the first five retired guys that came to mind for me. They were all contributing players in addition to their special teams play. And they were involved on every return. Even when the other team kicks away from them or squibs, they have affected the field position.

I don't think you'll ever get a coverage guy in the Hall. The job is to go all out and sacrifice yourself. Teams just won't sacrifice players that can help out in other ways like this.

As an example, Jonathan Vilma played on the punt coverage team for the Jets this year. He did a great job. But do you think that the staff will continue to risk their potential Pro-bowler this way in years to come? I can guaruntee that he won't be covering punts and kics in two years and I'd be suprised if he was doing it all next year.

albionmoonlight · 01-17-2005, 08:33 AM

That is a good argument--being the best at a position at which most teams put their 2nd and 3rd string players is fundamentally different than being, say, the best kicker in the league over the course of many years.

I am against Tasker in the HOF.

Your post also brings to mind an interesting image. Can you imagine if guys like Ronnie Lott or Night Train Lane played kick coverage? They would have killed a couple of punt returners before it was all said and done.

QuikSand · 01-17-2005, 08:33 AM

Is there any pure punter in the HOF? Ray Guy sits as his chance slips away... which seems ridiculous to me. Ask 100 NFL historians for their all-time team, and unless they are picking a punter for his other skills, you'd probably get 50+ votes for Ray Guy.

albionmoonlight · 01-17-2005, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuikSand

Is there any pure punter in the HOF? Ray Guy sits as his chance slips away... which seems ridiculous to me. Ask 100 NFL historians for their all-time team, and unless they are picking a punter for his other skills, you'd probably get 50+ votes for Ray Guy.

I thought Ray Guy was in the HOF. My mistake.

albionmoonlight · 01-17-2005, 08:42 AM

dola--

It will be interesting when Anderson and Andersen come up for the HOF. They played / are playing forever and were 80%+ kickers before that became the norm. Of course, they put up numbers that guys like Vanderjadt, Vinetari, and Akers may all match/surpass by the time that it is said and done.

I think the debate over them will really indicate both how important HOF voters believe that kicking is to HOF representation and how you rate players' ability--against their peers, or against some sort of all time standard.

Franklinnoble · 01-17-2005, 09:00 AM

I think Brian Mitchell should be in the HOF. Didn't he hold the record at one time for most all-purpose yards?

Mitchell played a lot of offense, in addition to his return duties. He even played QB for a while during the "body bag" game.

oykib · 01-17-2005, 09:25 AM

Ray Guy is not in the Hall of Fame for political reasons.

There's a contingent that wants the Kansas City guy in ( I forget his name ) before Guy. This is basically an I-hate-Al-Davis-and-the-Raiders situation from what I've heard.

Ragone · 01-17-2005, 03:38 PM

The only kc kicker that isn't in the hof that i can think of is Nick Lowery (that might even be considered that is)

QuikSand · 01-17-2005, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ragone

The only kc kicker that isn't in the hof that i can think of is Nick Lowery (that might even be considered that is)

Jan Stenerud would be the subject, I assume.

Ragone · 01-17-2005, 03:45 PM

pretty sure jan stenerud is in

yep class of 1991

so that silly arguement is out the window.. he is however. the only special teams kicker in the hall of fame..

but Ray guy does need to be in the hof.. course the problem is his punt average.. most of hte punters today have that average and will probably bitch and moan that they should be in too..

Glengoyne · 01-17-2005, 06:34 PM

Tasker was among the best special teams players of his era. Then again I'm sure that he was not the first special teamer to be so lauded, and then not included in the Hall.

In comparison to the Boomer thread...I'd say that Tasker was likely a better special teams player than Boomer was a QB, and I think Boomer was a pretty good QB.

But in all honesty...How can Ray Guy not be in the Hall of fame. I don't even remember his name coming up when the last ballot was discussed. Screw Art Monk, let's get Ray Guy into the Hall.

maximus · 01-17-2005, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevew

7-time Pro Bowler: 1987, 1990, 1991, 1992, 1993, 1994, 1995

(Okay, all the effin "hall of famer" threads are out of control)

those numbers are misleading.

Ragone · 01-17-2005, 07:31 PM

Screw steve tasker.. Steve deberg for hall of fame!

Pumpy Tudors · 01-17-2005, 10:58 PM

I can't understand how anyone ever took stevew's original post to be a serious question.

General Mike · 01-17-2005, 11:23 PM

why isn't Deron Cherry in the Hall of Fame?

judicial clerk · 01-18-2005, 10:26 AM

Ray Guy actually logged a little time at QB in the NFL. He was a pitcher in college and he was the emergency QB.

gottimd · 01-18-2005, 10:40 AM

Is the RS in Flasch186 awkward thread Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Material?

MrBug708 · 01-18-2005, 01:59 PM

Didn't Steve Tasker get tossed in his last NFL game?

01-17-2005, 07:42 AM	#9
rkmsuf Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2001	Tasker is not a hall of famer. __________________ "Don't you have homes?" -- Judge Smales

01-17-2005, 08:07 AM	#11
rkmsuf Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2001	If you are a great football player there is room for you on offense or defense as well as special teams. __________________ "Don't you have homes?" -- Judge Smales

01-17-2005, 03:45 PM	#21
Ragone Pro Rookie Join Date: May 2002 Location: Kansas City, Mo	pretty sure jan stenerud is in yep class of 1991 so that silly arguement is out the window.. he is however. the only special teams kicker in the hall of fame.. but Ray guy does need to be in the hof.. course the problem is his punt average.. most of hte punters today have that average and will probably bitch and moan that they should be in too.. Last edited by Ragone : 01-17-2005 at 03:52 PM.

01-17-2005, 10:58 PM	#25
Pumpy Tudors Bounty Hunter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Pittsburgh, PA	I can't understand how anyone ever took stevew's original post to be a serious question. __________________ No, I am not Batman, and I will not repair your food processor.

01-18-2005, 10:40 AM	#28
gottimd Dearly Missed (9/25/77-12/23/08) Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: DC Suburbs	Is the RS in Flasch186 awkward thread Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Material? __________________ NAFL New Orleans Saints GM/Co-Commish MP Career Record: 114-85 NAFL Super Bowl XI Champs In memory of Gavin Anthony: 7/22/08-7/26/08

01-17-2005, 02:54 AM	#2
Franklinnoble Banned Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Placerville, CA	In all seriousness, I'd say yeah, he's HOF material. If he's still a widely-known name by most football fans ten years after his last Pro Bowl (and, it's not for notorious reasons), then, yeah, he must have done something right.

01-17-2005, 03:55 AM	#5
Desnudo Coordinator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Here and There	Woods was an innovator who broke down barriers. Where would Owens or Joe Horn be today without Woods?

01-17-2005, 06:16 AM	#6
oykib College Starter Join Date: Oct 2000	Des, you're forgetting Billy "White Shoes" Johnson. Tasker is not a Hall of Famer. Had he been even an average #2 reciever or other contributor during the other three downs my opinion would likely be different. I'd put Brian Mitchell in a higher class than him and I don't think anyone would argue that he's a HOFer.

01-17-2005, 06:18 AM	#7
oykib College Starter Join Date: Oct 2000	Dola-- Actually, Eric Metcalf is the guy that is the standard bearer for special teams paragons. He wouldn't make it on my ballot if I had a vote.

01-17-2005, 07:30 AM	#8
Jets80 High School Varsity Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Charlotte, NC	Listen. Steve Tasker is NOT a Hall of Famer. I'm still not sure if you are serious or are just joking.

01-17-2005, 07:57 AM	#10
albionmoonlight Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: North Carolina	I don't think that Tasker is a hall of famer either, though I would not dismiss him quite as quickly as some here. He was, as we all know, one of--if not--the greatest special teams players in football for the better part of a decade. He played some WR near the end of his career, but that never amounted to much. If he makes it, it will be because he was one of the best ever at what he did (special teams). Not for any other reason. The question then becomes, to me, how important are special teams? They must mean something in the HOF analysis, otherwise there would be no kickers or punters in the HOF. But it does not mean as much as offense or defense because there are not a lot of kickers and punters in the HOF. In the end, I say no to Tasker in the HOF because I just don't think that kick coverage and return teams play enough to merit inclusion barring some extraordinary feats in that role. I would also have to closely examine how good he really was. It strikes me that one can get to the pro bowl as a special teamer based mainly on reputation. People might have just checked Tasker off on their ballots out of reflex once he got the reputation. Not saying that he wasn't that good--just that I'd have to check to make sure. By making that decision, I am pretty much excluding any special teamer from my future HOF ballots. I am OK with that decision because--as I said--I don't think that they play enough plays to really be considered one of the greatest players of all time. But I must admit that, as I write this, I have not quite convinced myself. It just does not seem quite right to take someone who did his job better than anyone else for ten years (again--assuming that he did) and say that that is not good enough just because the job is not important enough. Seems to invalidate a third of the game.

01-17-2005, 08:33 AM	#13
albionmoonlight Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: North Carolina	That is a good argument--being the best at a position at which most teams put their 2nd and 3rd string players is fundamentally different than being, say, the best kicker in the league over the course of many years. I am against Tasker in the HOF. Your post also brings to mind an interesting image. Can you imagine if guys like Ronnie Lott or Night Train Lane played kick coverage? They would have killed a couple of punt returners before it was all said and done.

01-17-2005, 08:33 AM	#14
QuikSand lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Annapolis, Md	Is there any pure punter in the HOF? Ray Guy sits as his chance slips away... which seems ridiculous to me. Ask 100 NFL historians for their all-time team, and unless they are picking a punter for his other skills, you'd probably get 50+ votes for Ray Guy.

01-17-2005, 08:42 AM	#16
albionmoonlight Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: North Carolina	dola-- It will be interesting when Anderson and Andersen come up for the HOF. They played / are playing forever and were 80%+ kickers before that became the norm. Of course, they put up numbers that guys like Vanderjadt, Vinetari, and Akers may all match/surpass by the time that it is said and done. I think the debate over them will really indicate both how important HOF voters believe that kicking is to HOF representation and how you rate players' ability--against their peers, or against some sort of all time standard.

01-17-2005, 09:00 AM	#17
Franklinnoble Banned Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Placerville, CA	I think Brian Mitchell should be in the HOF. Didn't he hold the record at one time for most all-purpose yards? Mitchell played a lot of offense, in addition to his return duties. He even played QB for a while during the "body bag" game.

01-17-2005, 09:25 AM	#18
oykib College Starter Join Date: Oct 2000	Ray Guy is not in the Hall of Fame for political reasons. There's a contingent that wants the Kansas City guy in ( I forget his name ) before Guy. This is basically an I-hate-Al-Davis-and-the-Raiders situation from what I've heard.

01-17-2005, 03:38 PM	#19
Ragone Pro Rookie Join Date: May 2002 Location: Kansas City, Mo	The only kc kicker that isn't in the hof that i can think of is Nick Lowery (that might even be considered that is)

01-17-2005, 06:34 PM	#22
Glengoyne Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Fresno, CA	Tasker was among the best special teams players of his era. Then again I'm sure that he was not the first special teamer to be so lauded, and then not included in the Hall. In comparison to the Boomer thread...I'd say that Tasker was likely a better special teams player than Boomer was a QB, and I think Boomer was a pretty good QB. But in all honesty...How can Ray Guy not be in the Hall of fame. I don't even remember his name coming up when the last ballot was discussed. Screw Art Monk, let's get Ray Guy into the Hall.

01-17-2005, 07:31 PM	#24
Ragone Pro Rookie Join Date: May 2002 Location: Kansas City, Mo	Screw steve tasker.. Steve deberg for hall of fame!

01-17-2005, 11:23 PM	#26
General Mike Pro Starter Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: The State of Rutgers	why isn't Deron Cherry in the Hall of Fame?

01-18-2005, 10:26 AM	#27
judicial clerk College Benchwarmer Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Portland, OR	Ray Guy actually logged a little time at QB in the NFL. He was a pitcher in college and he was the emergency QB.

01-18-2005, 01:59 PM	#29
MrBug708 Head Coach Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Whittier	Didn't Steve Tasker get tossed in his last NFL game?

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)