Some newbie OOTP questions

[QuikSand]

It's been a few versions since I played OOTP, so I know I am woefully out of touch. Regardless, I bought the latest version, and have started a career in the NABA universe. I am seeing some weirdness, and am hoping that I can either be calmed down (probably by evidencing my own mistake or stupidity) or that I can be convinced that the weirdness I'm seeing is either no big deal or just something we suck it up and deal with.

Setup -- I took over the Baltimore club, and had a cheap 2B on a one year deal for 2001. I looked him over -- not really impressive hitting ratings by my scout, but he did seem to get one base and had some wheels, and posted a +7 VORP, which isn't so bad. So, I offered him a cheap three year extension - each year under $1m - and figured I'd lock him up as maybe a utility infielder, pinch runner, or whatever for that price. In 2002, for lack of options, he ends up being my starting 2B, and posts a pretty respectable season as my leadoff man -- OBP of about .370, 60 SB, and a VOPR of over 9. I'm perfectly pleased with this production, of course.

What I don't get is the "star" rating for him as a prospect/talent. At the end of 2000, I'm quite sure that he was rated as a 1-star player. Mid-season, I noticed he had been upped to a 5-star player. At the end of the same season, on the DL for a few months, he is now showing up as a 3-star player. How does any of this make any sense?

I guess I can live with a low-talent player putting up a couple years of stats that suggest he's better than we all though. And I can live with the notion that the guy just got really lucky and he will come to earth soon. But I don't see any way that a given player can very basically from the top to the bottom of the player rating system in a matter of a few months.


So... I found a lot of stuff here on the latest OOTP game, and obviously a ton at their forums, but I don't really know that I want to do another master's thesis. I'd just like to know... is this just part of the game, and the sort of thing I need to ignore if I'm going to try to enjoy my OOTP baseball universe?

[Young Drachma]

The star ratings thing is really just relative to the talent in your league. So a guy with average ratings in an MLB league could play in a lesser league and be a 5-star guy. The ratings are deceiving, unfortunately.

I would say, evaluating the stats and just look at the relative strength to talent in the league to determine what you think of said player.

As for the ratings changes and him being on the DL, the DL likely caused his ratings to drop, which would mean his stars would drop. The things you'll want to look at in your league are, the AI evaluation setting. That setting will determine how the AI evaluates players. I think SkyDog's NABA has them set differently, but I don't remember.

I've been using 71/27/1/1 for my current solo league, because I like that it doesn't overemphasize past performance and yet, it keeps older stars in the game a while and doesn't result in that wackiness.

The other thing, and what was likely the culprit in your situation is the Talent Change Randomness which is defaulted to 100. In Ronco's settings, which I think that NABA file uses, the number is 200. Meaning that players talent changes twice as much as the default. It'll result in more lower round draftees getting talent bumps that make them stars or good major leaguers.

But it'll also result in your better players having talent drops that don't make a lot of sense. I've lowered it to 50 in some leagues and in FOOL, we play with it at 1. Sure, lower round draftees won't develop into superstars and that's lame sometimes. But..I'd rather have some form of predictability or at least, less than often talent drops that don't make sense..even if an otherwise good player goes on the mend for a while.

Hope that gives you a 'worthwhile' primer for your 'money'.

[Ben E Lou]

Actually, the default at NABA is 100 talent change, so that wouldn't be it. (Although certainly at 100 it could have been a random talent bump.) I'm guessing the talent issue has to do with a combination of the talent level changing in the league, his own talent level changing, and that scouting is turned on and at default level of scout error. Since I released that setup, Markus patched the game, allowing for the user to change the accuracy. I use "High" scout accuracy now in my own SP play and I don't see that sort of weird stuff any longer.

[QuikSand]

I'm finding a lot of little reminders why I bailed on this game back in about version 5.

Thanks for the tips, guys. I do have to wonder how anyone can play this game "out of the box" satisfactorily if there are so many crazy custom settings and patch-driven alterations that appears to be necessary to make things work respectably. Maybe my standards just need more fine tuning.

Anyway, I'll probably just do my usual -- spend a couple of seasons making deals and signing under-market contracts and shedding deadweight, and likely build a power team out of nothing before giving up on the game as just not for me. Yay.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

I do have to wonder how anyone can play this game "out of the box" satisfactorily if there are so many crazy custom settings and patch-driven alterations that appears to be necessary to make things work respectably. Maybe my standards just need more fine tuning.

There's no way that you or I could play this game out of the box.


As for challenge, I'd suggest taking San Diego in that league. It should be interesting.

[gstelmack]

Crazy development curves are just killing me in FOOL. Watching 27 year old guys end up a shell of themselves at the end of the season is just weird. And yes, having the star ratings tell you the relative value of a player rather than how good he actually is makes it hard to get an overall picture of your team. I am managing to have fun, however.

[QuikSand]

I realize this game has like 400 beta testers and a huge community of people getting things "fixed! " left and right -- but I'm finding quite a lot of dumb little things still in the game. A free agent who seems to have spent last season bouncing back and forth between my AA affiliate and another major league team? (And who was pissed off when I offered him a minor league contract saying things about how he wanted to keep playing in Baltimore when he never had, according to his player page) Incorrect references in feedback blurbs, fractured sentences, that sort of thing.

And I confess I don't understand the point of having a guy traipsing all over the globe scouting various countries if every player he finds is already going to be sitting on the minor league roster of a team in my league already. Also, when the majority of the guys he comes back with an urgent "keep an eye on this guy" report is followed by section after section reinforcing the 1/2-star rating (no bat, no glove, can't run)... well, what the hell is the value of this sort of scouting? Am I searching Venezuela and Uzbekistan for peanut vendors?

*shurg*

Ten bucks off. Heh.

[Ben E Lou]

I think that bouncing around bug got fixed in a recent patch.

I ended up turning off hidden players after a while. Great concept, but execution got too annoying for me.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

I realize this game has like 400 beta testers and a huge community of people getting things "fixed! " left and right -- but I'm finding quite a lot of dumb little things still in the game. A free agent who seems to have spent last season bouncing back and forth between my AA affiliate and another major league team? (And who was pissed off when I offered him a minor league contract saying things about how he wanted to keep playing in Baltimore when he never had, according to his player page) Incorrect references in feedback blurbs, fractured sentences, that sort of thing.

And I confess I don't understand the point of having a guy traipsing all over the globe scouting various countries if every player he finds is already going to be sitting on the minor league roster of a team in my league already. Also, when the majority of the guys he comes back with an urgent "keep an eye on this guy" report is followed by section after section reinforcing the 1/2-star rating (no bat, no glove, can't run)... well, what the hell is the value of this sort of scouting? Am I searching Venezuela and Uzbekistan for peanut vendors?

*shurg*

Ten bucks off. Heh.

A lot of those quirks are things that bug us, but don't seem to bug the HGIC when we bring them up. I think they get lost in translation.

[QuikSand]

Well, I'm still playing, at least.


Little pet peeve here. I really have trouble imagining any data less useful than jersey number in a game like this. Yet, there it is on every single screen. Looking at free agents, for instance, I might like to see... oh, I dunno... maybe HOW OLD the guy is? But instead we take up that much space to tell me what jersey number he wore for his old team. WTF?

[INDalltheway]

You are able to customize each page, so you could take out the uniform number and put the age in there. It isn't something I've gotten into messing with but I do know it's possible.

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by INDalltheway

It isn't something I've gotten into messing with but I do know it's possible.

Thanks -- that's me too. Just strikes me as a remarkably un-helpful default setting, to give me something that's basically completely useless rather than something that is frequently essential and would occupy the same amount of space.

[INDalltheway]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

Thanks -- that's me too. Just strikes me as a remarkably un-helpful default setting, to give me something that's basically completely useless rather than something that is frequently essential and would occupy the same amount of space.

Exactly.. Uniform number is the last thing I'd be looking at when it comes to this game.. There are a couple of tutorials on this page that talk about the customization if I recall.. http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/cms/...deos-tutorials

[QuikSand]

Many thanks

[Drake]

Another note on the stars: if I remember correctly, the default setting is that stars are relative to player position rather than overall league talent. This can be changed in the league setup screen. But what that means is that a player whose defined position of SS can be a 5-star player, but if he switches to a 3B, his relative stars can change if the 3B talent pool is deeper than the SS pool -- and by "he switches", I mean "if the AI switches his primary position".

[Young Drachma]

Yeah, there is a check box that allows you to change Overall rating based on all players, not positions. Still, stars are wonky.

[Drake]

Better than being wanky. Just sayin'.

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

Anyway, I'll probably just do my usual -- spend a couple of seasons making deals and signing under-market contracts and shedding deadweight, and likely build a power team out of nothing before giving up on the game as just not for me. Yay.

For the record, I am *enjoying* the game this far. But I like the building phase of pretty much any sim, so take that for what it's worth.

I guess I over-scrimped in my total slash-and-burn approach and got fired from Baltimore after a .500 season, and headed to tiny-market Oakland. I just finished the 2005 season (5th total, my 3rd in OAK) and with the league's lowest payroll by far, we posted the best record in baseball, tied with Baltimore (basically built on my foundation, then added several free agents with the money I saved them).

Right on target, in other words.

[QuikSand]

Heh, my first few tastes of "totally wacky player development curves" are hitting me. I have overheard people bitching about this stuff for the last few versions of OOTP... just wow. Wow. I can definitely see how some people judge this to make the game essentially unplayable.

[Drake]

The key is to not get too attached to any of your prospects. In many cases, the guys you think are going to be your Big League studs turn out to not be in most cases, and other guys step up from nowhere.

Of course, I can never tell if it's the guys I drafted who are stepping up or guys my minor league coaches are hiring to fill out the roster. I mean, I *could* tell if I wanted to, but I'm much too lazy for that. I don't really care what's happening in my minor leagues as long as I've got depth in the organization when I need it. Of course, I automate practically everything that's humanly possible to automate, so YMMV.

I think trades, expiring contracts and the first 4 or 5 rounds of the ammy draft are the only things I actually directly control. Everything else is delegated to the AI.

[Anthony]

the very erratic player development in this game forced me to put it down for the interim. i initiialy got too "billy bean" on my WS-champion Mets, shedding older players for younger stud replacements and got burned by young guys who had sexy ratings turning into useless players and some nobody deadweight minor leaguers blossoming into studs. too random for my blood.

[Sgran]

I bought 2008 about 2 months ago and I've been playing every night for hours. I love it and haven't felt there are any game-breakers. I'm playing with out of the box settings (4 divisions of 6 teams, no wildcard). If anything, the game is a little too easy in terms of team-building, although I haven't won a championship yet (division title in 4 of 6 seasons, one trip to the series) and I have no house rules regarding trading. The stats pass the sniff test.
I have 3 minor leagues and love watching players filter upward. I'm sure I'll get bored at some point, but I'm pretty sure I've already played more SP of OOTP in 2 months than I've played SP of FOF in 2 years.

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

I'm finding a lot of little reminders why I bailed on this game back in about version 5.

And that is where I have stayed at. That was/is a great version for historical leagues (with some house rules) and somehwat out of the box play (assuming patches and few league setup choices). I have bought 2007 or 8 or whatever that was and it felt like the dreaded kitchen-sink approach, except you are throwing in the kitchen and dining room too.