Soccer Thread 2013-14

[Marc Vaughan]

Originally Posted by Grover

Big progress for women in men's sport.

Strangely I was discussing with my daughter a couple of nights ago that I think its strange that there is so much segregation in sports generally.

I see no reason why there should be a men's and 'women's soccer leagues - its a sport which while physical in no way gives an advantage to either sex really ....

I play 'mixed' soccer in the local leagues here and the women play just as hard and dirty as the men

[MIJB#19]

Originally Posted by sovereignstar v2

Manchester City does not have any debt lol. You're confusing them with another team in Manchester. A mid-table side.

Sure, "in debt" may be the wrong words, but there's no denying Manchester City and Paris SG are even more of an unhealthy business than the other clubs that have a negative balance (and I'm sure Manchester United is part of that 'elite'.)

[sovereignstar v2]

What exactly is unhealthy about a businessman pumping his own money into a club?

[SirFozzie]

It leaves a team with unsustainable levels of spending that when the businessman stops pumping in the money, leads to teams with 100 years of history going bankrupt.

[sovereignstar v2]

This isn't a Portsmouth situation at all. Mansour has improved all aspects at the club. The 100 million dollar academy complex opens up this summer and that's only one example. All this FFP crap is about is keeping the cartel happy, not preventing what you describe.

[sovereignstar v2]

At any rate, City have been working with UEFA so as to comply with this BS for years. Then they moved the goalposts. It will be very interesting to see what comes out of this. There is no way the punishment should be the same as PSG.

[SirFozzie]

And you can claim the stuff like the academy as an exemption for FPP. From the article, it's CITY who tried to move the goalposts (claim they could write down contracts for both years when they could only do for one, selling bogus "Intellectual Property" for tens of millions)

But, in the point of honesty, you're just hoping the field continues to be tilted in your direction, right?

[MIJB#19]

Originally Posted by sovereignstar v2

What exactly is unhealthy about a businessman pumping his own money into a club?

There've been enough examples in various leagues that show how bad things can go. Recent examples could be Heart of Midlothian (Hearts FC), FC Anzhi, Malaga and Fulham. I'm not familiar with the details, but what the all share is out of nowhere rises to the top (or attempts to get their) under 'exotic' new ownership, that recently had to drastically cut the annual spending spree or decided to sell the club. Hearts and Fulham have 'clinched' their relegation recently, while Anzhi is headed for relegation and Malaga was the first club to get punished by UEFA over FFP.

[BishopMVP]

I've been playing some Futsal goalie which uses a basketball 3-point arc as the "goal box" and it got me thinking... why not change the outdoor area to an arc or a modified arc? Something like the current 18 yards from directly above the goal to like 30 degrees, and then tapering to like 5-6 yards wide of the posts down by the goalline?

I always hate those arguments about whether a handball/foul was inside or outside of the box when it's happening in an outside corner and clearly not a direct goal-scoring area. It's not really like the goalie should be in that area except to play a through ball or back-pass, and why not make him play those away if he decides to come that far out?

[Marc Vaughan]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

I've been playing some Futsal goalie which uses a basketball 3-point arc as the "goal box" and it got me thinking... why not change the outdoor area to an arc or a modified arc? Something like the current 18 yards from directly above the goal to like 30 degrees, and then tapering to like 5-6 yards wide of the posts down by the goalline?

I always hate those arguments about whether a handball/foul was inside or outside of the box when it's happening in an outside corner and clearly not a direct goal-scoring area. It's not really like the goalie should be in that area except to play a through ball or back-pass, and why not make him play those away if he decides to come that far out?

I think its just 'the way it is' tbh - football has actually evolved a fair bit over time and it might be something like that occurs, but I personally think its already gone far too far in favor of the attackers at present without restricting a goalkeeper (some of the fouls 'drawn' by strikers these days in the Premiership are frankly farcical - especially those where a defender tackles and gets the ball, in my book if you get the ball then its a tackle unless you've come in full speed at waist height ).

(the main problem with restricting the area as much as you're wanting is when a striker breaks through one on one ... the keeper needs to be able to come out and use his hands effectively if he's to narrow the shooting target down - if he couldn't use his hands that far out then the striker would just shoot to the side knowing he couldn't stop it - in Futsal I'm guessing you have smaller goals/pitch so its not that big an issue)

[sovereignstar v2]

City will be playing for the title on the main NBC network Sunday morning at 10am eastern. If there are any United fans still around these parts you can catch your match on the SyFy channel. This is how it feels to be City, this is how it feels to be small etc etc etc

[SirFozzie]

yeah, I was teasing SackAttack because his team's playing on Oxygen

[Ronnie Dobbs3]

Originally Posted by sovereignstar v2

If there are any United fans still around these parts

It seems like Ferguson took Big Fo's internet access with him on the way out

[SirFozzie]

Dola: Weird news as the English FA released a four point plan to increase the developing of English talent.

The plan would see a new tier added to the English League System in 2016-17

Premier Division
Championship
League One
League Two
League Three

League Three would start with 10 Premier League "B" teams and 10 teams from the Conference. Other B Teams would fit somewhere in the non-league pyramid I believe)

B Teams can go as high as League One (but must be in a division lower then their parent club). B Teams are not eligible for cup competitions, Out of the 25 player squads for the B-Teams, 19 must be Under-21, and 20 must qualify under the home-grown rule)

It would also limit EPL teams to 2 Non-EU foreign players (and out side the EPL, non-EU Foreign Players could not be signed). The amount of players in the 25 man squad required to be home grown would go from 8 to 13 in a phased-in fashion (so half the team would have to be home-grown by 2021)

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Dola: Weird news as the English FA released a four point plan to increase the developing of English talent.

The plan would see a new tier added to the English League System in 2016-17

Premier Division
Championship
League One
League Two
League Three

League Three would start with 10 Premier League "B" teams and 10 teams from the Conference. Other B Teams would fit somewhere in the non-league pyramid I believe)

B Teams can go as high as League One (but must be in a division lower then their parent club). B Teams are not eligible for cup competitions, Out of the 25 player squads for the B-Teams, 19 must be Under-21, and 20 must qualify under the home-grown rule)

It would also limit EPL teams to 2 Non-EU foreign players (and out side the EPL, non-EU Foreign Players could not be signed). The amount of players in the 25 man squad required to be home grown would go from 8 to 13 in a phased-in fashion (so half the team would have to be home-grown by 2021)

That would make FM managing in England less interesting.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

That would make FM managing in England less interesting.

Would also seem likely to make watching the EPL (outside of the UK) less interesting as well.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Dola: Weird news as the English FA released a four point plan to increase the developing of English talent.

The plan would see a new tier added to the English League System in 2016-17

Premier Division
Championship
League One
League Two
League Three

League Three would start with 10 Premier League "B" teams and 10 teams from the Conference. Other B Teams would fit somewhere in the non-league pyramid I believe)

B Teams can go as high as League One (but must be in a division lower then their parent club). B Teams are not eligible for cup competitions, Out of the 25 player squads for the B-Teams, 19 must be Under-21, and 20 must qualify under the home-grown rule)

It would also limit EPL teams to 2 Non-EU foreign players (and out side the EPL, non-EU Foreign Players could not be signed). The amount of players in the 25 man squad required to be home grown would go from 8 to 13 in a phased-in fashion (so half the team would have to be home-grown by 2021)

Linky?

[Ronnie Dobbs3]

Maybe try to google it

edit: to atone for snark I will provide the link http://www.theguardian.com/football/...non-eu-players

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs3

Maybe try to google it

edit: to atone for snark I will provide the link http://www.theguardian.com/football/...non-eu-players

Just felt it was silly to summarize the proposal without the link.

[Marc Vaughan]

I really hope the proposal goes down in flames - its been bad enough that the FA has been attempting to dismantle the revenue streams for smaller clubs in recent years (ie. limiting 'escape' fees for players poached from them by larger clubs) without them literally trying to turn them all into feeder clubs.

If what the FA 'claim' about the lack of English talent in the Premiership being the problem then why was our international setup so weak during the 1980's when we had a predominantly English player base in the top league (double the amount that it is today) ... grrr ...

[sovereignstar v2]

Nice to see some of the media are starting to question the supposed sanctions against City. Niall Quinn, who although he's an ex-City player, generally loves to rag against them but this time he makes a ton of sense in this video. Still quiet as ever from UEFA. All the pro-City press is starting to make me wonder if City has something on Platini and they are putting a carrot in front of the media.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10152361939675768

[sovereignstar v2]

Sun is shining and City are champions yet again.

[cartman]

Javier Zanetti played his final home game at San Siro after a 19 year career playing for Inter.

Addio! Javier Zanetti bids emotional farewell to San Siro | inside World Soccer

[Butter]

Originally Posted by Marc Vaughan

I really hope the proposal goes down in flames - its been bad enough that the FA has been attempting to dismantle the revenue streams for smaller clubs in recent years (ie. limiting 'escape' fees for players poached from them by larger clubs) without them literally trying to turn them all into feeder clubs.

While us Americans have all been bemoaning the lack of any promotion / relegation structure in our professional sports, it sounds like England actually want to turn their main pro sport into a sort of baseball structure with permanent minor-league teams feeding parent clubs.

[flere-imsaho]

Does anyone know how this proposal differs from the way "B" teams work in Spain (i.e. I believe Barca's & Real's B teams are both in the 2nd division)? Does it work there?

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by Marc Vaughan

I really hope the proposal goes down in flames - its been bad enough that the FA has been attempting to dismantle the revenue streams for smaller clubs in recent years (ie. limiting 'escape' fees for players poached from them by larger clubs) without them literally trying to turn them all into feeder clubs.

I agree with you about limiting the "escape fee" being a travesty, but surely this proposal wouldn't turn "all" lower division clubs into feeder clubs?

Also, I know it works this way in other leagues. From my current FM save, for instance, I know the larger Norwegian clubs have "2" teams capped in Division 2.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

Does anyone know how this proposal differs from the way "B" teams work in Spain (i.e. I believe Barca's & Real's B teams are both in the 2nd division)? Does it work there?

I believe it is similar to the system in Spain. The question is whether the B team will be developing English talent or hording even more young talent (foreign and domestic) than many of the bigger teams are doing already.

Here is the proposal that I never hear from the FA. English players leaving the benches of the Premier League to go get first team action abroad. The other leagues are developing all sort of talent for Premier League teams right now. I think they could develop English players for the same team and the English national side. I took a quick look at English players in the other major leagues and the list was almost non existence.

[flere-imsaho]

With FFP, though, I wonder how much they'll be able to hoard. Plus, it would be pretty easy (I'd think) to place a restriction on B teams that they have to use so many "home-grown" players, or whatnot. I mean, you're already restricting them from promotion, another restriction shouldn't be a problem.

[ISiddiqui]

In MLS news today (exciting stuff)!!:

MLS, U.S. Soccer announce eight-year TV deal with ESPN, Fox,*Univision | Planet Futbol - SI.com

Major League Soccer and the United States Soccer Federation are teaming up with ESPN, Fox and Univision to televise American soccer for the next eight years. In conjunction with U.S. Soccer on Monday, the league announced the new deals, which take over for contracts expiring at the end of the 2014 season.

The new deal marks a return for dedicated broadcasting windows on each network. Univisión, primarily through new channel UniMás, will broadcast at 7 or 11 p.m. ET on Fridays. ESPN and Fox Sports 1 will go back-to-back on Sunday matches at 5 and 7 p.m. ET, respectively. (Canadian channel TSN, partly owned by ESPN, has a deal that runs through 2016.)

All three networks have committed to showing a minimum of 34 regular-season games in their dedicated windows. As the only Spanish-language network in the deal, Univisión receives exclusive access to the MLS All-Star Game, MLS Cup final and all United States men’s national team games. ESPN and Fox will alternate airing the All-Star Game and playoff final, and they will share national team matches.

ESPN is also taking over MLS’s out-of-market package that the league currently maintains as part of its MLS Live service. The games will be available on ESPN3 and feature more than 200 matches per year.

The new deal is worth an average of $90 million a year for MLS and U.S. Soccer, according to SportsBusiness Journal. That figure is five times the amount of the league’s current media deals, but it’s unclear how the league and federation will split the revenue.

$90 mil a year is roughly 3 times what the English and Spanish language rights of MLS were in the last contract, so this is GREAT news for the league. As well as the showing of games on ESPN and FS1 - though for us cable-less folks it's still going to be Univision!

[Butter]

ESPN3... I like it.

[Marc Vaughan]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

I agree with you about limiting the "escape fee" being a travesty, but surely this proposal wouldn't turn "all" lower division clubs into feeder clubs?
Also, I know it works this way in other leagues. From my current FM save, for instance, I know the larger Norwegian clubs have "2" teams capped in Division 2.

It wouldn't turn 'all' - but it'd make a travesty of the leagues, you'd have b-teams containing teams which aren't truly competitive (i.e. some players recovering from injury or out of favor, whatever) and others who are playing to win.

The fragmentation between the two would alienate supporters to a greater or lesser degree and the over-performance of the b-teams of larger clubs (which face it will happen) will over-time displace the 'real' clubs largely down to the lower levels, probably bankrupting more than a few of them .... or at the very least turning them into cheap feeder clubs for larger teams (which in itself will remove their competitiveness and much of their own fan-bases).

I detest the concept - I can't even begin to explain how much .. I realise that some other nations do it, but that doesn't mean we have to .. its part of the unique flavor of English football to me.

[Marc Vaughan]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

Here is the proposal that I never hear from the FA. English players leaving the benches of the Premier League to go get first team action abroad. The other leagues are developing all sort of talent for Premier League teams right now. I think they could develop English players for the same team and the English national side. I took a quick look at English players in the other major leagues and the list was almost non existence.

What 'amuses' me with the entire FA Argument is that they're saying the kids can't get enough time in the first team so having a B-Team will give them playing time - we already have a system for that, its called 'loans' and allows them to play in a truly competitive league.

Yes not all players 'make it' - having B-Teams won't change that, truly great players come through in all countries in 'fits and starts' they're championing Spain at the moment and saying its because of their B-team system ... however if you look at history Football is generally cyclic with International dominance, it wasn't so long ago Germany were in disarray and France were dominant etc. ... nothing to do with B-Teams, more to do with the available talent, coaching and the style of play.

[Marc Vaughan]

Only from a testimonial match - but funny as heck, referee tackles player and then is taken out in return ...

Howard Webb tackles spurs player

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by Marc Vaughan

It wouldn't turn 'all' - but it'd make a travesty of the leagues, you'd have b-teams containing teams which aren't truly competitive (i.e. some players recovering from injury or out of favor, whatever) and others who are playing to win.

Yes, but presumably those B Teams that aren't truly competitive would end up getting relegated, correct? Or does this proposal guard against it (which would indeed be stupid).

Originally Posted by Marc Vaughan

What 'amuses' me with the entire FA Argument is that they're saying the kids can't get enough time in the first team so having a B-Team will give them playing time - we already have a system for that, its called 'loans' and allows them to play in a truly competitive league.

Which is a GREAT point. I really have to wonder why the loan system isn't used as much, tbh. Presumably because they want the youngsters onsite to take advantage of superior coaching & facilities? But at some point you need to make a decision between that and first team reps.

[Marc Vaughan]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

Yes, but presumably those B Teams that aren't truly competitive would end up getting relegated, correct? Or does this proposal guard against it (which would indeed be stupid).

The trouble is that a team full of near Premiership standard players will hold their own in the lower leagues without their players trying particularly - especially when you consider B-Teams will have players recovering from injuries and suchlike within them.

That'd be like you playing against a Grand Master at Chess and knowing he's toying with you - there is no pleasure in getting a draw or win, because he's not really truly trying ... making whatever competition you're in seem less significant.

I really have to wonder why the loan system isn't used as much, tbh. Presumably because they want the youngsters onsite to take advantage of superior coaching & facilities? But at some point you need to make a decision between that and first team reps.

If you look here then there is a list of all the transfers from just the January 2014 window and you can see there are a huge amount of loans going on.

[flere-imsaho]

So I wonder, then, tying this back to the England team, if it's a case of :

a) English players are not as naturally talented as England would think / hope

b) English players are not being given enough chances to develop their talent

c) English players are talented, but chronically mismanaged at the national team level

[Marc Vaughan]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

a) English players are not as naturally talented as England would think / hope
b) English players are not being given enough chances to develop their talent
c) English players are talented, but chronically mismanaged at the national team level

Generally speaking I'd say its mainly 'a' but also partially 'c'.

The English press play up our home grown players something rotten, but its very rare that we have any which are 'truly' world class - Rooney is considered our strongest player, but frankly while I think he's very good he's not on a level with either Messi or Ronaldo nor even as consistent as some of the other better international strikers (to me he was far better and more creative before he joined Manchester United, he's a good player but has lost that unpredictable quality which made him deadly when he first came into the Premiership) ... a player like "Bale" would be a huge step towards success for England if we ever find one.

We also lack any truly creative players who can give you that spark of unpredictability to pick the lock of a defensive team and so tend to struggle against better sides or those who are competently organized in defense.

The one time I saw 'hope' for the England international setup was when Terry Venables was manager briefly - during that period we looked well setup, organised and played really well as a team ... unfortunately he was dismissed for non-footballing reasons and since then we've had a succession of managers aiming at losing nobly (the idea that we did ok and didn't embarrass ourselves) rather than building for the future.

The other successful countries tend to embrace change more dramatically - look at how Germany reworked their team after their aging side started struggling ... in comparison England are still basing their World Cup hopes around Lampard and Gerrard etc. ... yes they're bringing in some youth, but its the same old halfway house of staggering onward rather than being brave and reshaping things fully.

(just my take)

[Grover]

I think Bale and Ramsey could do a ton of good for English football. If only they weren't Welsh!

[Ronnie Dobbs3]

Originally Posted by sovereignstar v2

They haven't and shouldn't accept the punishment, so there is nothing that needs to be overturned yet.

Manchester City, according to Uefa, have agreed they breached FFP, must pay €60m, 21-man squad in CL, and wage cap http://t.co/WlgVEmkqu8 …

— David Conn (@david_conn) May 16, 2014

Contents of the .pdf

Spoiler

Decision of the Chief Investigator of the CFCB Investigatory Chamber: Settlement Agreement with Manchester City Football Club Limited
Following an investigation under the UEFA Club Licensing and Financial Fair Play Regulations (“CLFFPR”) a settlement agreement was concluded between the UEFA Club Financial Control Body (“CFCB”) Chief Investigator and Manchester City Football Club Limited ("Manchester City") on the basis of Article 14 (1)(b) and Article 15 of the Procedural Rules governing the CFCB.
The settlement was concluded on 16 May 2014 and covers the three sporting seasons 2013/14, 2014/15 and 2015/16. For the duration of the settlement, Manchester City will be subject to on-going restrictions which have been agreed by the club and which are described further below.
A central purpose of the settlement is to ensure that Manchester City becomes break-even compliant within the meaning of the CLFFPR in a short space of time.
 In this regard, Manchester City undertakes to report a maximum break-even deficit of EUR 20 Mio. for the financial year ending in 2014 and a maximum break-even deficit of EUR 10 Mio. for the financial year ending in 2015. In this context certain commercial partnerships were subject to examination. In order to avoid dispute and for the avoidance of doubt, Manchester City has agreed that for the period of the settlement it will not seek to improve the financial terms of two second tier commercial partnerships.
 Furthermore Manchester City agrees that revenues from the sale of assets within their group structure will not be included in future break-even calculations.
 Manchester City accepts that employee benefit expenses cannot be increased during the next two financial periods (2015 & 2016). If Manchester City meets the annual break-even requirements outlined above, this spending limit will be removed for the 2016 financial period.
 Manchester City accepts that for the duration of the settlement it will be subject to a limitation on the number of players that it may include on the “A” list for the purposes of participation in UEFA competitions. Specifically, for season 2014/15 Manchester City may only register a potential maximum of 21 players on the “A” list, instead of the potential maximum of 25 as foreseen in the relevant competition regulations. If MC manages to comply with the annual break-even
target the club shall be released from the restriction as regards the registration of players in UEFA club competitions for the 2015/16 season.
 Manchester City agrees to significantly limit spending in the transfer market for seasons 2014/2015 and 2015/2016. Manchester City further accepts a calculated limitation on the number of new registrations it may include within their “A” List for the purposes of participation in UEFA competitions. This calculation is based on the clubs net transfer position in each respective registration period covered by this agreement.
 Manchester City agrees to pay a total amount of EUR 60 Mio. which will be withheld from any revenues it earns from participating in UEFA competitions commencing in season 2013/14. Of this EUR 60 Mio. an amount of EUR 40 Mio. will be withheld conditionally and will be returned to Manchester City if the club fulfills the operational and financial measures agreed with the UEFA CFCB.
The compliance with the Settlement Agreement will be subject to on-going and in depth monitoring, in accordance with the applicable rules. In this connection, Manchester City also undertakes to provide the CFCB with a Progress Report evidencing its compliance with all relevant conditions agreed on a six monthly basis.
In case Manchester City fails to comply with any of the terms of this Agreement, the UEFA CFCB Chief Investigator shall refer the case to the Adjudicatory Chamber, as foreseen in Art. 15 (4) of the Procedural Rules.
Nyon, 16 May 2014

[MIJB#19]

Similar penalty for Paris SG and several other clubs get smaller fines: BBC Sport - Manchester City fined and squad capped for FFP breach

[SirFozzie]

If they comply with the financial regulations, they'll be able to recover 40 million of the 60 million fine.

[SirFozzie]

Alright, help DT and I settle*** an argument about European leagues.

(*** ok, who am I kidding, this argument can't be settled, no matter how much I'm right and he's wrong.. )

He thinks that the Italian Serie A is the best league in Europe. I find that laughable, and put it maybe fifth in Europe.

Foz's rankings
1. Spain
2. England
3. Germany
4-5. France
4-5. Italy

My argument is that handicapped by crumbling stadiums that the clubs do not even own and limited revenue streams compared to some of the other big nations, the Serie A has deteriorated over the last decade. The results in Europe are not a fluke, the constant scandals have taken a toll.. in short, that the rot has set in and it will need something special to get Serie A righted.

He thinks that the Italian league has the most parity, the best tactical teams, most defensively sound, etcetera.

So, help us decide. You rank the leagues...

[Ryan S]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Alright, help DT and I settle*** an argument about European leagues.

(*** ok, who am I kidding, this argument can't be settled, no matter how much I'm right and he's wrong.. )

He thinks that the Italian Serie A is the best league in Europe. I find that laughable, and put it maybe fifth in Europe.

According to the UEFA coefficients (from before the European finals, so Spain and Portugal might increase their points).

1 - Spain - 97.284
2 - England - 84.748
3 - Germany - 81.641
4 - Italy - 66.938
5 - Portugal - 62.133
6 - France - 56.500

That looks about right to me. Spain has the best teams, England probably has the most depth.

Italy has fallen a long way from the heights of the '90s, and Spain and England have been the dominant leagues since the turn of the century.

[The Jackal]

Oh DT, you so silly.

[saldana]

does anyone know a free streaming site that i can get the Barcelona v. Atletico match...my cable company doesnt have beIN and i dont feel like paying for it on the last day of the season

[kingfc22]

Zone defending on a corner strikes again.

[kingfc22]

Glad to see Wenger got this team ready to play. Geez.

[whomario]

Damn, Atletico allready with 2 injuries in the game with both Turan and Diego Costa having to go off ...

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Alright, help DT and I settle*** an argument about European leagues.

(*** ok, who am I kidding, this argument can't be settled, no matter how much I'm right and he's wrong.. )

He thinks that the Italian Serie A is the best league in Europe. I find that laughable, and put it maybe fifth in Europe.

Foz's rankings
1. Spain
2. England
3. Germany
4-5. France
4-5. Italy

My argument is that handicapped by crumbling stadiums that the clubs do not even own and limited revenue streams compared to some of the other big nations, the Serie A has deteriorated over the last decade. The results in Europe are not a fluke, the constant scandals have taken a toll.. in short, that the rot has set in and it will need something special to get Serie A righted.

He thinks that the Italian league has the most parity, the best tactical teams, most defensively sound, etcetera.

So, help us decide. You rank the leagues...

Again, you're misquoting me to try to make my view sound ludicrous and get people to agree with you. That's bush-league Foz. I never said it was the best. And for fuck's sake - I'm the one that brought up in our argument that the revenue streams are handicapped by the stadium issue and that they don't have the same level of superstar players as other leagues - stop trying to make it like that's your argument.

Most parity yes, most defensively sound, yes. Certainly above Germany and France, which are both unbalanced leagues.

But as we said last night - the beauty of this is that there's a different league for everyone depending on the style of play that they like. I prefer watching Serie A over England, 100%. Probably put it on-par in terms of enjoyability watching (although in totally different ways) with La Liga. La Liga I find more "end to end" style exciting, while Serie A I find more structured and sedate (broad generalizations).

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

Oh DT, you so silly.

Nope - Foz is misrepresenting our conversation to make my position seem more extreme than it actually is (and also claiming as "his argument" some of the things that I explicitly brought up as acknowledged issues with Serie A). See my post.