Interracial couple denied marriage license

[lungs]

Anybody want to defend this one?

Link

HAMMOND, La. (AP) - A Louisiana justice of the peace said he refused to issue a marriage license to an interracial couple out of concern for any children the couple might have.

Keith Bardwell, justice of the peace in Tangipahoa Parish, says it is his experience that most interracial marriages do not last long.

Neither Bardwell nor the couple immediately returned phone calls from The Associated Press. But Bardwell told the Daily Star of Hammond that he was not a racist.

"I do ceremonies for black couples right here in my house," Bardwell said. "My main concern is for the children."

Bardwell said he has discussed the topic with blacks and whites, along with witnessing some interracial marriages. He came to the conclusion that most of black society does not readily accept offspring of such relationships, and neither does white society, he said.

"I don't do interracial marriages because I don't want to put children in a situation they didn't bring on themselves," Bardwell said. "In my heart, I feel the children will later suffer."

If he does an interracial marriage for one couple, he must do the same for all, he said.

"I try to treat everyone equally," he said.

Thirty-year-old Beth Humphrey and 32-year-old Terence McKay, both of Hammond, say they will consult the U.S. Justice Department about filing a discrimination complaint.

Humphrey told the newspaper she called Bardwell on Oct. 6 to inquire about getting a marriage license signed. She says Bardwell's wife told her that Bardwell will not sign marriage licenses for interracial couples.

"It is really astonishing and disappointing to see this come up in 2009," said American Civil Liberties Union of Louisiana attorney Katie Schwartzman. "The Supreme Court ruled as far back as 1963 that the government cannot tell people who they can and cannot marry."

The ACLU was preparing a letter for the Louisiana Supreme Court, which oversees the state justices of the peace, asking them to investigate Bardwell and see if they can remove him from office, Schwartzman said.

"He knew he was breaking the law, but continued to do it," Schwartzman said.

According to the clerk of court's office, application for a marriage license must be made three days before the ceremony because there is a 72-hour waiting period. The applicants are asked if they have previously been married. If so, they must show how the marriage ended, such as divorce.

Other than that, all they need is a birth certificate and Social Security card.

The license fee is $35, and the license must be signed by a Louisiana minister, justice of the peace or judge. The original is returned to the clerk's office.

[Sun Tzu]

What's wrong with a fine upstanding white guy trying to marry a fine upstanding black gal? This is bullcrap.

[Chief Rum]

Why don't they just drive to Mississippi? Or go to another court?

Not saying the judge is right, though; he's not.

[CamEdwards]

I wonder if the governor has the authority to remove this guy as a justice of the peace, or if it's up to the county authorities. I'd think the justice of the peace would have to fulfill his job obligations without discriminating on the basis of race.

[JonInMiddleGA]

The article (or a couple of other variations I've seen) really doesn't make it clear whether the rules/laws governing JP's in Louisiana specifically require him to sign any otherwise legal document presented to him.

If so, then he ought to step down from the job. If not, then he's within his rights subject to the inevitable civil suits that will be filed.

[CamEdwards]

dola- should've read the entire article. Looks like it's a matter for the Louisiana Supreme Court.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by CamEdwards

I wonder if the governor has the authority to remove this guy as a justice of the peace, or if it's up to the county authorities. I'd think the justice of the peace would have to fulfill his job obligations without discriminating on the basis of race.

The ACLU was preparing a letter for the Louisiana Supreme Court, which oversees the state justices of the peace, asking them to investigate Bardwell and see if they can remove him from office, Schwartzman said.

Just because I have to type something to post, LA should consider merging their Justices of the Peace with the drive through daiquiri stands.

[JediKooter]

The south wil rise again...one racist J.O.P. at a time.

[Axxon]

I found this highly ironic considering the events of the current decade.

"The Supreme Court ruled as far back as 1963 that the government cannot tell people who they can and cannot marry."

Not quite.

[stevew]

hopefully once it hits 1970 people will get a bit more tolerant on things like this.

[Axxon]

dola,

Considering this irony I have no problem with some JP using race to deny marriage. It's no better or worse a reason.

[Axxon]

Originally Posted by stevew

hopefully once it hits 1970 people will get a bit more tolerant on thongs like this.

They were in thongs??

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by stevew

hopefully once it hits 1970 people will get a bit more tolerant on thongs like this.

Having been to the beach recently, lord, I hope so.

[Sun Tzu]

If they were in thongs then I don't blame the judge for denying them the license.

Unless it was a patriotic thong...of course.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Sun Tzu

If they were in thongs then I don't blame the judge for denying them the license.

Unless it was a patriotic thong...of course.

How could you tell? Only room for one stripe.

[Sun Tzu]

I guess it depends on if the design was on the front or back...and how well endowed the guy was.

[stevew]

Lol. Damn SureType.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

Well, with the ACLU involved, there are sure to be those who will side with this kind man, who is just thinking of the children that will now never be born to grow up to be President of the United States of America.

[Axxon]

Originally Posted by M GO BLUE!!!

Well, with the ACLU involved, there are sure to be those who will side with this kind man, who is just thinking of the children that will now never be born to grow up to be President of the United States of America.

No silly, his rule only applies to kids born in America.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

Originally Posted by Axxon

No silly, his rule only applies to kids born in America.

I fergot that Loisiana was still part of the Confed'recy.

[Axxon]

Originally Posted by M GO BLUE!!!

I fergot that Loisiana was still part of the Confed'recy.

Or maybe you forgot what country the President was REALLY born in???

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by Axxon

I found this highly ironic considering the events of the current decade.

"The Supreme Court ruled as far back as 1963 that the government cannot tell people who they can and cannot marry."

Not quite.

Yeah, I took notice of that line too.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

Originally Posted by Axxon

Or maybe you forgot what country the President was REALLY born in???

Are you Orly Taitz?

[Axxon]

Originally Posted by M GO BLUE!!!

Are you Orly Taitz?

NO, I'm Larry Tate.

Sorry, just got through watching The Cable Guy on, well, on cable.

[Izulde]

Okay, I'll bite.

Now, I'm not saying he's correct, but I could see potential for where he'd at least have reasonable logic for his belief. If his area is still one that is prejudiced towards racial minorities, there's at least a logical basis for it. After all, a surprising number of African-American writers during the Harlem Renaissance, for example, had black female characters who proclaimed that they would not bear children, because it was too cruel and too harsh a social climate to subject them to, with no hope for prosperity or advancement.

Miscegenation, by the way, is a fascinating subject in and of itself. For a good number of decades/centuries, it was viewed as one of the most frightening things that could happen in the eyes of white Europeans, because it meant that the races were not far apart anymore and the "purity" of whiteness was in danger of being permanently diluted (in theory).

And in the novel Caucasia (likely elsewhere too), you have the interesting argument presented that it's the biracial individuals of the world who serve as the advance scouts and the litmus test for racial tolerance on both sides of the hereditary races. Of course, this involves a lot of struggles, both internal and external, particularly surrounding identity.

Interracial marriages themselves have stresses put on them that are unlike same-race marriages. These unique challenges can, in my opinion at least, either make the marriage stronger, or, as this guy's suggesting, break it.

Again, I'm not saying this guy's right. In fact, I'd say he's wrong. But I'm just saying I can see an area for where his beliefs might make some sense on their own terms, based on the context of his experience and frame of reference in dealing with the world.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by Izulde

Okay, I'll bite.

Now, I'm not saying he's correct, but I could see potential for where he'd at least have reasonable logic for his belief. If his area is still one that is prejudiced towards racial minorities, there's at least a logical basis for it. After all, a surprising number of African-American writers during the Harlem Renaissance, for example, had black female characters who proclaimed that they would not bear children, because it was too cruel and too harsh a social climate to subject them to, with no hope for prosperity or advancement.

Miscegenation, by the way, is a fascinating subject in and of itself. For a good number of decades/centuries, it was viewed as one of the most frightening things that could happen in the eyes of white Europeans, because it meant that the races were not far apart anymore and the "purity" of whiteness was in danger of being permanently diluted (in theory).

And in the novel Caucasia (likely elsewhere too), you have the interesting argument presented that it's the biracial individuals of the world who serve as the advance scouts and the litmus test for racial tolerance on both sides of the hereditary races. Of course, this involves a lot of struggles, both internal and external, particularly surrounding identity.

Interracial marriages themselves have stresses put on them that are unlike same-race marriages. These unique challenges can, in my opinion at least, either make the marriage stronger, or, as this guy's suggesting, break it.

Again, I'm not saying this guy's right. In fact, I'd say he's wrong. But I'm just saying I can see an area for where his beliefs might make some sense on their own terms, based on the context of his experience and frame of reference in dealing with the world.

Though I will say Caucasia is an interesting book, it's really Danzy Senna's fictionalized memoir of growing up in Boston. I dunno that it's something you can relate as cannon in relation to these types of experiences. Glimmer, by Annie Waters is a quick read and probably a better representation at the other end of the spectrum.

That said, dude has a responsibility to carry out his job. It's not really about like or dislike in this situation. Seems cut and dry, IMHO.

[Pumpy Tudors]

It doesn't really surprise me that this happened in Hammond, and Chief Rum's idea about them driving to Mississippi is hilarious. I would question whether the couple would even get out of Mississippi alive.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

It doesn't really surprise me that this happened in Hammond, and Chief Rum's idea about them driving to Mississippi is hilarious. I would question whether the couple would even get out of Mississippi alive.

Heh...I have only flown over. Not gotten the chance to really visit the good ole South.

Unless you count Florida (I don't) and a two hour lay over in the ATL airport.

Maybe they can drive to Colorado?

[Pumpy Tudors]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Heh...I have only flown over. Not gotten the chance to really visit the good ole South.

Unless you count Florida (I don't) and a two hour lay over in the ATL airport.

Maybe they can drive to Colorado?

I'll certainly give you a pass on it. As half of an interracial couple myself, I think Mississippi is a great state to drive through. Quickly.

[DanGarion]

Can't wait for the ambulance chaser Gloria Allred to be signed up as their lawyer...

[SackAttack]

Pumpy tried to elope with Kathy Griffin? Who saw that coming?

[JAG]

Originally Posted by lungs

HAMMOND, La. (AP) - A Louisiana justice of the peace said he refused to issue a marriage license to an interracial couple out of concern for any children the couple might have.

Keith Bardwell, justice of the peace in Tangipahoa Parish, says it is his experience that most interracial marriages do not last long.

So the argument against issuing the marriage license is that, if they decide to have children, these kids are better off never having been born than being born to parents that *might* end up getting divorced? I'm guessing those kids might have a different viewpoint if the choices were 'never be born' and 'be born to parents that might be more inclined to get divorced, based on one person's experience'.

Originally Posted by Izulde

Interracial marriages themselves have stresses put on them that are unlike same-race marriages. These unique challenges can, in my opinion at least, either make the marriage stronger, or, as this guy's suggesting, break it.

Maybe this is true in a general sense, but I can say I haven't encountered any stress in the relationship between my wife and I because she is black and I am white, so I wouldn't say this is true in every case.

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

The article (or a couple of other variations I've seen) really doesn't make it clear whether the rules/laws governing JP's in Louisiana specifically require him to sign any otherwise legal document presented to him.

If so, then he ought to step down from the job. If not, then he's within his rights subject to the inevitable civil suits that will be filed.

He's within his rights to use discretion.

He's breaking the law if he bases his decision on the races of those involved.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by JAG

So the argument against issuing the marriage license is that, if they decide to have children, these kids are better off never having been born than being born to parents that *might* end up getting divorced? I'm guessing those kids might have a different viewpoint if the choices were 'never be born' and 'be born to parents that might be more inclined to get divorced, based on one person's experience'.

Actually, it seemed to me the judge's point was about society's (especially local society's) general handling of mixed race children, in addition to the divorce thing.

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

I'll certainly give you a pass on it. As half of an interracial couple myself, I think Mississippi is a great state to drive through. Quickly.

I would actually drive around the state of Mississippi. And I am white.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by RomaGoth

I would actually drive around the state of Mississippi. And I am white.

They do hate Gator fans.

[RomaGoth]

But Bardwell told the Daily Star of Hammond that he was not a racist.

Best line in the story. Especially considering they could have kids without getting married. This guy is a moron.

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by Logan

They do hate Gator fans.

not a gator fan

[Doug5984]

Originally Posted by lungs

Link

HAMMOND, La. (AP) - A Louisiana justice of the peace said he refused to issue a marriage license to an interracial couple....

We're not all like that down here... these morons give the rest of Louisiana a bad...errr..worse name.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Originally Posted by Logan

They do hate Gator fans.

lol

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by Doug5984

We're not all like that down here... these morons give the rest of Louisiana a bad...errr..worse name.

So, I've been in what's classically regarded as the most taboo/feared interracial relationship of them all--black male from the 'hood with blueblood white female--for roughly 14 years now (2 1/2 years dating, 11 1/2 years married.) During that time, I've lived nowhere but the South, and done most of my traveling in the South as well. My in-laws' stated fears prior to the marriage were essentially exactly what this JP stated: that we would be shunned, that the pressures would be too great, that any potential children would have a horrible time, etc. My take on it was that all their fears were unfounded. So far, they couldn't have been more wrong. I'm sure some would argue that we lived in Metro Atlanta for the majority of our married life, so that skews it. However, Tucker feels much more like a small-town Southern community than most parts of Atlanta. And even down here in the Lowcountry, where even my wife was a little concerned, things have been great. We've already made good friends from both races, with a sprinklin' of Latinos for good measure. We're part of a very active social scene in our fairly mixed (maybe 75% white, 20% black, 5% other) middle-class suburban neighborhood, and were recently elected elders in our church. When I push the stroller down the street, our daughter is almost like a rock star. People have come out of their houses just to see/greet her. I guess my point here is that while people like this JP still exist, it's a *HUGE* stretch to use this incident to portray the entire Deep South as being stuck in the 1950s on this issue. *shurg*

[Pumpy Tudors]

I had a couple of experiences in Louisiana and Mississippi that jaded my view a little bit, but I also understand that there are going to be bad apples everywhere. So I certainly don't think the South as a whole is terrible, even though I made a joke about Mississippi before. Frankly, though, I still don't think my wife and I could've lived comfortably in Hammond, LA, or in Mississippi, or in her hometown of Memphis. New Orleans was great for us, but New Orleans is certainly not representative of the South or Louisiana. New Orleans is almost like a completely different country.

So we ended up moving to Greensburg, Pennsylvania. I didn't know what to expect when we got up here. It turned out to be fine. My only obligation when I got here was to tag the other black guy and tell him he could leave.

[Noop]

Whoever said interracial dating makes you stronger has it right because I don't think I have gotten so many dirty looks before my current girlfriend.

[lungs]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

I guess my point here is that while people like this JP still exist, it's a *HUGE* stretch to use this incident to portray the entire Deep South as being stuck in the 1950s on this issue. *shurg*

Likewise, to pretend that this type of attitude is non-existant in the North is laughable. Hell, even this morning I heard some racial things that need not be repeated here.

[SportsDino]

Whatever the judges personal beliefs, denying a marraige license for any grounds except those based on the law is itself against the law. At the very least he should be booted out of office for incompetence in performing the duties he was hired for.

You do not get to pick and choose when you do your duties as a public servant. Denial of service would have been the first thing the fools did in the 60's and I'm sure there is plenty of precedent set on the issue. Hell, they go beyond that and say providing inferior service (i.e. schools), not just outright denial, is grounds for civil rights violation.

[Tigercat]

Oh you have to love that Louisiana gentile racism that still exists. "Interracial marriage? Oh nothing wrong with that one really, just doesn't work is all." I can't believe he was stupid enough to not realize that telling people that would get him in trouble eventually.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by Noop

Whoever said interracial dating makes you stronger has it right because I don't think I have gotten so many dirty looks before my current girlfriend.

I can't help but wonder if there are some elements of self-fulfilling prophecy going on there.

[SportsDino]

I never experienced any problems with my first girlfriend (black, I'm white), but I didn't go into it looking at her as anything different than a girl to begin with. If only she wasn't batshit crazy, I too could have gotten a marraige license denied by this idiot judge! I'd agree that if you think bad will happen it is more likely you will either cause it to happen, or notice anything at all as worst than it is. Not to say it doesn't happen at all (and I live in the north).

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Samdari

He's within his rights to use discretion.

He's breaking the law if he bases his decision on the races of those involved.

Have you got/does somebody have/has someone seen & can paraphrase reasonably accurately the relevant rules of what he is or isn't allowed to consider under the rules that govern the JP job & the signing of marriage licenses in Louisiana?

Is it as vague as something like "in the judgment of the JP" or is it specific enough to spell out what grounds for not signing they're allowed to use, or somewhere in between? And is there any obligation to detail the reason for not signing? I'm asking 'cause I've not seen anything approaching detail on that and it seems pretty doggoned relevant to the matter.

[KWhit]

I thought the Civil Rights Act(s) made this kind of shit against federal law?