2014 NFL Regular Season, Week 2

[SteveMax58]

Originally Posted by BillJasper

I still think Tampa Bay would be better off playing Mike Glennon.

Yeah I agree.

We know Mccown is not a franchise QB. And for a rookie, Glennon really played very well last year & looks to have the right tools to be a solid QB. Not HoF potential but maybe Flacco potential. And that would be leaps & bounds above what McCown brings on his best day.

[mrtourette]

It always seemed like an odd move, especially as they tried to deal him as soon as Lovie Smith came in. McCown is a perfectly reasonable veteran backup but were they really expecting him to put up the same sort of stats he did with Chicago last year?

[weegeebored]

There's an old adage in psychology --"The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior." I think that once a coach or player establishes a history of "behavior" you shouldn't think that will change. McCown is an average backup who happened to be in the right place at the right time. Look at the talent he had surrounding him -- Forte, Jeffrey, Marshall, Bennett. Hell...I could have had a career year. And Lovie is Lovie -- don't expect anything on offense. Look at his OC hires over his coaching tenure. He has no clue. He tried to make Devin Hester a #1 receiver! Tampa got what they should have expected to get.

[Coffee Warlord]

Has Lovie uttered, "Josh McCown is our quarterback" yet?

[Butter]

Originally Posted by weegeebored

There's an old adage in psychology --"The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior." I think that once a coach or player establishes a history of "behavior" you shouldn't think that will change. McCown is an average backup who happened to be in the right place at the right time. Look at the talent he had surrounding him -- Forte, Jeffrey, Marshall, Bennett. Hell...I could have had a career year. And Lovie is Lovie -- don't expect anything on offense. Look at his OC hires over his coaching tenure. He has no clue. He tried to make Devin Hester a #1 receiver! Tampa got what they should have expected to get.

Tampa can expect a future Super Bowl appearance then? Because I think they'd take that.

[weegeebored]

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

Tampa can expect a future Super Bowl appearance then? Because I think they'd take that.

So, that one appearance (a loss) makes up for how many years of not making the playoffs? Sure he can get them there -- if he has four or more All-Pros on defense and a Hester-in-his-prime kick returner. But in a offensive-focused league he has no chance.

I haven't seen a Tampa game this year. Does he still have the classic "deer-in-the-headlights-I-don't-have-a clue-what's-going-on" look on the sidelines? But that's not the worst. It's the smug attitude, especially for a guy who really hasn't done much in his head coaching career.

[Arles]

[Honolulu_Blue]

In a quarterback-driven league to get beat, at home, by Derek Anderson and Austin Davis (I am still not exactly sure who this is) is not good. Could be a long season in Tampa.

It was great to see Kyle Fuller, who the Lions passed on to draft a 3rd tight end, get two interceptions, while the Lions secondary struggled horribly on top of getting crushed with injuries.

Same Old Lions.

[molson]

AP reinstated already. I believe on the grounds that they lost by a lot yesterday.

[kingfc22]

Curious to see if the NFL's new directive on these 5 yard defensive penalties will lead to a removal of the automatic first down on illegal contact and hands to the face down the road.

If I'm an offensive coordinator and I have a 3rd and long, I'm always sending multiple receivers downfield as the odds of a flag with an automatic result of a first down is highly likely this season. Forget about the dump down pass or draw play to pick up yardage on 3rd and long.

[Coffee Warlord]

Tillman done for the season, and my guess is he retires.

[Julio Riddols]

Reading Adrian's statement it rings very honest to me. Again, this is just me, but he was going with what he knew and he was disciplining his child. Just because I haven't had to resort to similar means to achieve that ultimate parental end of an obedient and well behaved young man or woman doesn't mean what he did was wrong. He probably went a little overboard on it, but I still highly doubt this can or should be classified as abuse. It had sound reasoning behind it, it was just a bad choice of how to go about things. That choice was influenced by his knowledge of the effectiveness of such a punishment. As many people have stated in defense of the style, they are glad to have been whipped with a belt or spanked or switched as children because it taught them to be respectful. I fall in that category. My dad's belt was not a tool he enjoyed using, I tried to protect myself with my hands and I squirmed all over the place to avoid it, so it didn't always land on my ass every swing. It did leave bright red welts, because a soft spanking didn't teach me shit.

I would hope my respectfulness shows in the way I choose to discuss things with you all on this message board. I know my mother and father love me, and we have a great relationship with each other. I am very thankful for the discipline they instilled and the way they went about it. I don't believe Adrian Peterson meant to cause harm to his child as it is being portrayed, but that he intended to send a message to his son that the type of behavior he exhibited was not acceptable. I am fairly certain the point got across, too.

The court of public opinion will weigh heavily on this, and with news agencies spouting the most outrageous wording possible for the actions that occurred (using "tree branch" in place of "switch" for instance) it is hard to blame the public for getting up in arms more than they probably should. I have yet to speak to a single person in the wake of this who was spanked/switched/belted who thinks what Adrian did was really that much in the wrong. Some believe he was a little overaggressive, but none think his intent was to harm the child for no reason. It is entirely different from someone punching their wife or girlfriend, because there is no constructive reasoning behind those actions. This is the last I will speak on it, but my ultimate feeling is that it is a sensitive time for "abuse" in the NFL, and that is why this is coming to the forefront now after bouncing around for a while behind the scenes. I doubt this ever would have gotten to this point without the Ray Rice incident happening. I don't believe it is fair to lump them together because there was no reasonable intent behind one, while there was a clear purpose behind the other.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Julio Riddols

I would hope my respectfulness shows in the way I choose to discuss things with you all on this message board. I know my mother and father love me, and we have a great relationship with each other. I am very thankful for the discipline they instilled and the way they went about it..

Did it ever go as far as it did in this case? Did they ever tear up your balls?

Whether or not parents should physically discipline their kids is an interesting discussion (and I think you've expressed your side of that argument very well), but it really has nothing to do with AP or what the NFL should do here. Nobody's getting suspended or criminally charged for spanking their kids. AP brutalized his kid. IMO, the injuries reflect that this wasn't done with loving discipline, but with rage. He lost control of himself and beat the shit out of his kid. If a parent is going to physically discipline their kid, they can't "go overboard". Then it's not discipline anymore, it's an emotion-fueled battery. If you can't control your emotions, and can't physically discipline your kid without "going overboard", then you can't lawfully physically discipline your kid.

[thesloppy]

I'm not necessarily against corporal punishment, but at the same time I have a hard time reasoning the need for any kind of tool. I don't think anybody would stand up for repeatedly whipping one's dog or one's spouse with a belt, or a switch, yet it's somewhat culturally acceptable to do the same to a child.

[thesloppy]

As an aside, this topic made me interested in corporal punishment laws/culture across the globe. This article gives a summary of national corporate punishment laws:

Corporal punishment policies around the world - CNN.com

[Julio Riddols]

Originally Posted by molson

Did it ever go as far as it did in this case? Did they ever tear up your balls?

Whether or not parents should physically discipline their kids is an interesting discussion (and I think you've expressed your side of that argument very well), but it really has nothing to do with AP or what the NFL should do here. Nobody's getting suspended or criminally charged for spanking their kids. AP brutalized his kid. IMO, the injuries reflect that this wasn't done with loving discipline, but with rage. He lost control of himself and beat the shit out of his kid. If a parent is going to physically discipline their kid, they can't "go overboard". Then it's not discipline anymore, it's an emotion-fueled battery. If you can't control your emotions, and can't physically discipline your kid without "going overboard", then you can't lawfully physically discipline your kid.

To be honest, I don't recall whether my balls ever got hit or not, but if I bend over and squeeze my legs together to brace for impact, there is no guarantee that my balls aren't slightly exposed. A belt or switch has a good chance of making contact in those situations, I assume. I know I always squirmed and tried my hardest to get away, because I knew shit was about to get real. I always brought it on myself, too. I can imagine a switch used with the same force as my dad used his belt would have probably broken the skin, because I have pretty sensitive skin to begin with. I would get scratches that drew blood from playing football in grass as a kid. The friggin' grass would break the skin.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

As an aside, this topic made me interested in corporal punishment laws/culture across the globe. This article gives a summary of national corporate punishment laws:

Corporal punishment policies around the world - CNN.com

They were just talking on this on NPR.

Basically illegal all around the world thanks to the UN's Human Rights of a Child pronouncement - which of course has not been signed by only a couple countries: notably Somalia and the USA.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Julio Riddols

To be honest, I don't recall whether my balls ever got hit or not, but if I bend over and squeeze my legs together to brace for impact, there is no guarantee that my balls aren't slightly exposed. A belt or switch has a good chance of making contact in those situations, I assume. I know I always squirmed and tried my hardest to get away, because I knew shit was about to get real. I always brought it on myself, too. I can imagine a switch used with the same force as my dad used his belt would have probably broken the skin, because I have pretty sensitive skin to begin with. I would get scratches that drew blood from playing football in grass as a kid. The friggin' grass would break the skin.

Here's the other meaningful question - did he ever belt you with that ferocity when you were 4 years old?

Not taking a stand one way or another on physically disciplining children, but there's an appropriate level of physicality to use based on the child's age, and (note: i haven't been able to stomach looking at the pictures yet) this seems like it probably crossed that line pretty easily.

[sabotai]

Giants' CB Walter Thurmond tore his pectoral muscle and is done for the year.

Walter Thurmond tears pectoral, out for Giants' season - NFL.com

[Julio Riddols]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

As an aside, this topic made me interested in corporal punishment laws/culture across the globe. This article gives a summary of national corporate punishment laws:

Corporal punishment policies around the world - CNN.com

Very interesting to check out. It does appear the northern Europeans have adopted a non violent method of discipline across the board, while countries some might consider more uncivilized are generally in the no prohibition camp.

I do agree it is a very interesting subject, I just think Peterson is being made into a martyr here. I hope people can accept it if he goes to great lengths to improve himself because of this and that they don't always just feel like he is a basic child abuser. I think he and Rice both have a nice opportunity here to become a strong advocate against the thing they are being vilified for. I think Rice has a lot more work to do to re-earn public trust, but I think both have a chance to achieve redemption and make a positive difference if they use their situations as opportunities to promote self growth, while adhering to higher standards for themselves in the wake of the events that have transpired.

I think ultimately these events present an opportunity to bring the NFL into a position to promote more than just safe tackling and breast cancer awareness. I'd like to see them address this stuff in public service announcements or through other avenues and take it as a chance to educate while accepting that football itself is just a game, while life and living the right way and doing the right thing are far more important in the grand scheme of things.

[Julio Riddols]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Here's the other meaningful question - did he ever belt you with that ferocity when you were 4 years old?

Not taking a stand one way or another on physically disciplining children, but there's an appropriate level of physicality to use based on the child's age, and (note: i haven't been able to stomach looking at the pictures yet) this seems like it probably crossed that line pretty easily.

I believe when I was 4 it was open hand stuff. Not a lot of memories of being that age, but I don't truly recall the belt being a part of things until the hand lost its effectiveness. I sort of developed a tolerance over a few years.

[Julio Riddols]

I think ultimately every kid is different. You have to try many different things and see what works. For me, the most effective things have been to threaten to stop playing with him (I'll read a book to you, but I don't want to play when you're being a bad boy) Or taking away the thing he is most invested in at the moment. Conversely, offering rewards like ice cream or fruit snacks for good behavior has been really effective as he has learned how to communicate. The better he understands what I want or expect, the better we seem to get along. I don't see myself ever using a different form of punishment than the general soft psychological warfare of bending him to my will through persuasion. I am thankful for that.

For my dad, I think he did the most effective thing for me. Time in the corner failed entirely, and I had a killer imagination so I never felt the sting of having things taken away from me enough to have it actually be an effective form of punishment. I always feared the spanking though. The quick cure for my bad behavior was always to put a spanking on the table. I almost always quit right then and there, whatever it was I was doing.

[kingfc22]

And apparently Peterson is now being investigated for abusing another one of his kids. KHOU 11 News Houston on Twitter: "#KHOU #ITEAM Adrian Peterson investigated for another abuse accusation involving another one of his sons. More at 6! http://t.co/dH4tad2ovk"

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by Julio Riddols

Very interesting to check out. It does appear the northern Europeans have adopted a non violent method of discipline across the board, while countries some might consider more uncivilized are generally in the no prohibition camp.

I also stumbled on this related article particularly about Sweden, which has apparently banned all corporal punishment since 1979:

In Sweden, a generation of kids who've never been spanked - CNN.com

It looks like both of those CNN articles were motivated by a 2011 video of a judge beating his teen daughter with a belt, which I vaguely remember.

[molson]

This was a "child discipline gone overboard" case in my neck of the woods. The "dead bug" is when you press your knees down on a kid's abdomen. It can kill them. You can kill a 4-year old if you strike them enough too, especially when you can't control your anger.

Daniel Ehrlick, Idaho Man, Gets Life For Killing 8-Year-Old Boy

[Lathum]

Abuse- "treat (a person or an animal) with cruelty or violence, especially regularly or repeatedly."

Seems like what AP was doing if you ask me. How any rational person can look at those pictures and say it wasn't an act of violence is beyond me.

[Matthean]

Originally Posted by kingfc22

And apparently Peterson is now being investigated for abusing another one of his kids. KHOU 11 News Houston on Twitter: "#KHOU #ITEAM Adrian Peterson investigated for another abuse accusation involving another one of his sons. More at 6! http://t.co/dH4tad2ovk"

There was zero chance his beating of his 4-year old was the only time he did something like it.

[DaddyTorgo]

Especially when you see the text he sent to the mother of the kid that said

"“You will be mad at me about his leg. He got about five more pops than normal . He didn’t drop one tear! … He’s tough as nails.”

(emphasis mine).

[cartman]

/*warning, armchair analysis*/

I wonder if the lack of response from the kid while the hits from the switch are being administered is in anyway some sort of disassociation as a coping mechanism.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Matthean

There was zero chance his beating of his 4-year old was the only time he did something like it.

And the same is true for Rice and beating women.

[mckerney]

Originally Posted by Matthean

There was zero chance his beating of his 4-year old was the only time he did something like it.

KHOU reporting Peterson is accused of beating another one of his four-year-olds so badly it left a scar on his face.

— Timothy Burke (@bubbaprog) September 15, 2014

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by mckerney

KHOU reporting Peterson is accused of beating another one of his four-year-olds so badly it left a scar on his face.

— Timothy Burke (@bubbaprog) September 15, 2014

If that's true then he shouldn't play another down in the NFL...ever.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Julio Riddols

I think ultimately every kid is different.

Q.F.T.

I suspect there's more than a few here who would be downright shocked how few spankings my child ever had.

It's about finding, and utilizing, what is effective. And that IS child-by-child.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Q.F.T.

I suspect there's more than a few here who would be downright shocked how few spankings my child ever had.

It's about finding, and utilizing, what is effective. And that IS child-by-child.

This is true.

[Matthean]

Originally Posted by molson

And the same is true for Rice and beating women.

Absolutely.

[Honolulu_Blue]

I hate all of these 14 year Prius commercials. All of them. But the one where the family tries to re-create the family picture is just kind of creepy.

[Dutch]

BREAKING NEWS: Adrian Peterson is a piece of shit

[miked]

My 5 year old requires no beatings, time outs and other things seem to work. If you are resorting to physical punishment for a 4 year old, you have lost the game of life.

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

I hate all of these 14 year Prius commercials. All of them. But the one where the family tries to re-create the family picture is just kind of creepy.

Yeah, and the mom looks like she's from the 60s or something in the before pic. Wha?

[Marmel]

Originally Posted by miked

My 5 year old requires no beatings, time outs and other things seem to work. If you are resorting to physical punishment for a 4 year old, you have lost the game of life.

This needs to be said again and again and again. In fact, if you strike a child of any age, you lost the game of life. IMO, if you just defend the action of somebody else who did it, you lose.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

Yeah, and the mom looks like she's from the 60s or something in the before pic. Wha?

This is a good point. Why is the entire family dressed in clothes that make them look like they're from the 60's/70's/80's in 2000? 14 years isn't as long ago as they seem to think it is.

These commercials are the worst.

[cuervo72]

Probably realized that, wait - styles from 14 years ago are, uh, pretty much the same.

[NobodyHere]

Sooo ummm,

how bout them Colts?

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by miked

My 5 year old requires no beatings, time outs and other things seem to work. If you are resorting to physical punishment for a 4 year old, you have lost the game of life.

Exactly. If your kids behavior is so bad that they require beatings, they are likely learning that behavior from someone ( pssttttt...it's you)

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by miked

My 5 year old requires no beatings, time outs and other things seem to work. If you are resorting to physical punishment for a 4 year old, you have lost the game of life.

Originally Posted by Lathum

Exactly. If your kids behavior is so bad that they require beatings, they are likely learning that behavior from someone ( pssttttt...it's you)

+1

[EagleFan]

There's a football game on?

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

There's a football game on?

Yup, and a pretty darn good one if you're a Colts fan

[BishopMVP]

Is that Trent Richardson looking like an actual NFL running back?

I still like the Eagles to pull it out - their offense looks great between the 20's, sooner or later they'll start turning those drives into TD's.

[NobodyHere]

What a great interception!

[Buccaneer]

I can easily see Luck become my favorite QB when Brady is gone, he's probably my second favorite now anyway. Also, it is refreshing to actually like the Eagles now - I didn't like them even back in the 70s and 80s, let alone recently.