If Trump Loses In November, What Do You Think Happens Next

[Ksyrup]

I thought I read something on twitter that they filed this in a court that had no claim to jurisdiction. I don't know if that's right, but it wouldn't surprise me that went for judge first, legalities second (or not at all).

[Thomkal]

Yeah same district in Florida, but no doubt he was judge shopping to try to get one more favorable to him and from what I've seen-she's far-right Federalist Society type judge

[JPhillips]

I'm not a lawyer, but I'd be pretty damned embarrassed if I was and a judge wrote this:

Basically, the judge is saying:
1) Why did you bring this to me rather than Judge Reinhart?
2) What can I do that Judge Reinhart can't?
3) You know, w/o an injunction, this is useless, right?
4) Why the fuck did you bring this to me?
5) You're supposed to tell DOJ about this. pic.twitter.com/Vs5ZGl2mjf

— emptywheel (@emptywheel) August 23, 2022

[cuervo72]

I liked this reaction:

I know I am kind of obsessing about this but this is my area and this is historically and flamboyantly incompetent and surreal. Like imagine you love football and it's the Super Bowl and it's kickoff and the kicker whips out a javelin and kills the mascot and yells FOOT FAULT

— EnoughTreesHat (@Popehat) August 23, 2022

[CrimsonFox]

2 of the pieces of crap that tried to kidnap Mich Gov Whitmer get dunked on. But of course their POS lawyers are complaining there was a bad juror after a previous case had a hung jury and an acquittal

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

2 of the pieces of crap that tried to kidnap Mich Gov Whitmer get dunked on. But of course their POS lawyers are complaining there was a bad juror after a previous case had a hung jury and an acquittal

I'm actually surprised the state got the conviction. I didn't follow the trial this time around, but I wonder how the state got around entrapment accusations. Or maybe the jury just didn't care.

[CrimsonFox]

Upon retrial, two Michigan militia ringleaders are convicted of plotting to kidnap Gov. Whitmer

also trump called the whitmer plot a complete fake earlier this month so...hey look! trump is a piece of shit!

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

I liked this reaction:

That's solid. I know nothing about why this is how it is, but the idea of that is great. So I really, really, hope it's accurate.

[Atocep]

Dershowitz foreshadowed this a bit. He was explaining last week or the week before that Trump can't find competent attorneys because no one wants the case. He was kind of alluding to potential competence issues with who he ended up with.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Dershowitz foreshadowed this a bit. He was explaining last week or the week before that Trump can't find competent attorneys because no one wants the case. He was kind of alluding to potential competence issues with who he ended up with.

I thought it was because the lawyers wanted to actually get paid.

[albionmoonlight]

Two things that lawyers tend to prefer, all things being equal, are (1) getting paid, and (2) a client who will take their advice.

So, yeah, lawyers with options don't want to work for a guy famous for not paying people and for never taking any advice he does not want to hear.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

I thought it was because the lawyers wanted to actually get paid.

And not get indicted. He has no qualms of making criminals of his representation. Not to mention he demands the legally impossible.

EXCLUSIVE: Trump is desperate to recover the classified trove taken from Mar-a-Lago — and is pushing his legal team on a long-shot maneuver to return them.https://t.co/IKyyM9GrDM

— Rolling Stone (@RollingStone) August 24, 2022

[CarterNMA]

My conspiracy theory:
So, if the news is correct that he had special access program materials, can we assume that anything that takes place at Area 51 would fall under those kinds of protections? Maybe those documents prove there aren't aliens and he wanted to be able to show friends what really goes on out there?

[Mota]

Originally Posted by CarterNMA

My conspiracy theory:
So, if the news is correct that he had special access program materials, can we assume that anything that takes place at Area 51 would fall under those kinds of protections? Maybe those documents prove there aren't aliens and he wanted to be able to show friends what really goes on out there?

Maybe that's the only way he can get people to come over to his place.

It's like the nerdy guy with a swimming pool who gets a lot of new friends every summer.

[GrantDawg]

Trump's Truth Social post tonight suggesting McConnell and his should both be arrested was cryptic and interesting. I still think what he had was blackmail information in a number of Republicans, along with valuable state secrets he can sell.

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[whomario]

It would be so on brand for Trump to have had this shit, whatever it is, for that long and not made digital copies, wouldn't it ?

[stevew]

So what actually happens if Trump starts sharing secrets on his social media? Maybe he loses 5% of his supporters when 95% just double down on how smart it is?

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

Trump's Truth Social post tonight suggesting McConnell and his should both be arrested was cryptic and interesting. I still think what he had was blackmail information in a number of Republicans, along with valuable state secrets he can sell.

He's been calling for anyone he doesn't like to be arrested for like 6 years now. I think if he had any dirt, he'd have put it out by now.

I'm probably wrong but I just think he wanted the documents to brag. He's an insane narcissist and probably got a kick out of showing some divorced lawyers and ex-golfers at his club top secret documents. Lets be honest, the guy watches cable news and golfs all day. He isn't exactly bringing riveting conversation to the dinner party.

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

He's been calling for anyone he doesn't like to be arrested for like 6 years now. I think if he had any dirt, he'd have put it out by now.

I'm probably wrong but I just think he wanted the documents to brag. He's an insane narcissist and probably got a kick out of showing some divorced lawyers and ex-golfers at his club top secret documents. Lets be honest, the guy watches cable news and golfs all day. He isn't exactly bringing riveting conversation to the dinner party.

i think you're right on all counts. His shouting for the documents back is just a mcguffin to incite more "outrage"

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by stevew

So what actually happens if Trump starts sharing secrets on his social media? Maybe he loses 5% of his supporters when 95% just double down on how smart it is?

pffff...he's got nothing. probably remembers nothing.

[whomario]

Hope this becomes a thing (MAGA loosers telling their followers to not vote for the Rep candidate).

[Lathum]

This is the shit that must keep McConnell, McCarthy, etc up at night. They created this and now can’t control it and I am here for all of it.

[Flasch186]

McCarthy? I think he likes this shit


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[bronconick]

Is she going to lock herself to one side of the doors in "protest" again?

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Flasch186

McCarthy? I think he likes this shit


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I don't think he does. He may be spineless but he isn't stupid. He desperately wants to be speaker and realizes these dopes encouraging MAGAs to stay home hurts those prospects.

[albionmoonlight]

Someone (his lawyers?) managed to get it through his head that all of the crimes he's been admitting to over the last few weeks might actually be a bad thing. He's always at his most freaked out and least coherent when he's actually nervous about something.

[CrimsonFox]

MTG's home got swatted apparently. I'm guessing she did it herself :P

[whomario]

For something completely different, Jamie Foxx with the best Trump impersonation:

Jamie Foxx can sound just like Donald Trump ���� pic.twitter.com/uyrQ4l6zMY

— Daily Loud (@DailyLoud) August 25, 2022




[whomario]

The redacted affidavit:

[Atocep]

I read through it. It absolutely destroys every excuse/defense offered by Trump and his team.

He should 100% go to prison for this. He had all sorts of classified info including TS documents labeled NOFORN out of their folders and mixed in with his press clippings, newspapers, notes, ect.

[whomario]

Originally Posted by Atocep

I read through it. It absolutely destroys every excuse/defense offered by Trump and his team.

He should 100% go to prison for this. He had all sorts of classified info including TS documents labeled NOFORN out of their folders and mixed in with his press clippings, newspapers, notes, ect.

Wow ... I mean, it's entirely on brand for him

Figures that i see a joke floating about without even realizing it is actually out

[albionmoonlight]

The DOJ wanted to keep this sealed under their policy (which is for the benefit of criminal suspects) to not release incriminating information before charges are filed.

Trump, assuming that if they wanted X, then he should want not-X, moved to unseal it without really thinking about whether he should want it unsealed.

So now there's a bunch of stuff out there making him look bad because he demanded it be released. That's a hell of an own goal.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Atocep

I read through it. It absolutely destroys every excuse/defense offered by Trump and his team.

He should 100% go to prison for this. He had all sorts of classified info including TS documents labeled NOFORN out of their folders and mixed in with his press clippings, newspapers, notes, ect.

Is it as clear as that? The defense still is that a President can declassify any document according to their interpretation of the Constitution. It looks like since May Trumps lawyers have been making that assertion. I really don't know if that defense might work or not, especially given the current make-up of the Supreme Court. As for the Presidential Records Act, he definitely has no defense unless they are going to claim that is somehow unconstitutional as well.

[albionmoonlight]

I honestly think that Trump thinks that the Presidential Records Act says that he gets to keep records because he was the President.

[Kodos]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

Is it as clear as that? The defense still is that a President can declassify any document according to their interpretation of the Constitution. It looks like since May Trumps lawyers have been making that assertion. I really don't know if that defense might work or not, especially given the current make-up of the Supreme Court. As for the Presidential Records Act, he definitely has no defense unless they are going to claim that is somehow unconstitutional as well.

This bit from the NYT may address your question:

In a footnote, the affidavit makes explicit that the law that prohibits the unlawful gathering, transmission or loss of defense information does not use the term "classified information." Rather, it criminalizes “the unlawful retention of ‘information related to the national defense.’” This seems to undercut the idea that there is no crime so long as Trump declassified the information before leaving office.


Charlie Savage
Aug. 26, 2022, 1:04 p.m. ET12 minutes ago
12 minutes ago

Charlie Savage
The May letter from Jay Bratt also made the case that Trump is not subject to a law that criminalizes the mishandling of classified information, Section 1924 of Title 18 of the U.S. Code. Notably, that was not one of the three laws that the search warrant cited and relied upon, suggesting that the Justice Department did not need it and wanted to avoid a fight over whether the classification status of the documents mattered.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by whomario

The redacted affidavit:

Ah yes that well known constitutional expert-Rick Astley

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

Is it as clear as that? The defense still is that a President can declassify any document according to their interpretation of the Constitution. It looks like since May Trumps lawyers have been making that assertion. I really don't know if that defense might work or not, especially given the current make-up of the Supreme Court. As for the Presidential Records Act, he definitely has no defense unless they are going to claim that is somehow unconstitutional as well.

The President can not declassify any document. He can declassify most documents but there's still a declassification process since it's not a magic wand.

There are things a president can not declassify no matter what he wants or says. Those tend be those of the TS/SCI variety. The people in charge of our national secrets aren't stupid enough to not have safeguards in place for nearly every conceivable thing that could happen. We have classification systems in place based on the potential damage leaks or releases could cause. That doesn't go out the window because the president wants it.

Some documents they would probably ignore leakage or mishandling because it's a former president. But when it comes to TS/SCI, NOFORN, SI, ect and were not talking about simple mishandling we're talking about these documents being stored in his home like they're just memorabilia.

He should go to prison based on just the unredacted parts of that affidavit. 100%

[Ksyrup]

I swear I saw this as a Netflix documentary...

Using fake ID and posing as a European heiress, Russian speaking woman made multiple trips in and out of Mar-a-Lago: Federal authorities investigating Ukrainian immigrant who posed as a Rothschild, rubbed elbows with Trump and his allies at Mar-a-Lago https://t.co/dLEiiyPMmU

— Frank Figliuzzi (@FrankFigliuzzi1) August 26, 2022

[bronconick]

He had a bunch of stuff on "clandestine human sources"

Yeah, that's going to go over well.

[PilotMan]

It's totally amusing that in that picture they've shopped out Lindsey Graham, who appears when you load the story.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Kodos

This bit from the NYT may address your question:

This is going to be the counter argument.

On What Grounds Can the FBI Investigate the President as a Counterintelligence Threat? - Lawfare

They would not do so because these actions—and indeed the very determination of the U.S. interest in the conduct of U.S. foreign policy—are presidential prerogatives. The Supreme Court has often affirmed, many times since United States v. Curtiss-Wright Export Corp., that it is the president himself, not the executive branch, who possesses “the very delicate, plenary and exclusive power … as the sole organ of the federal government in the field of international relations—a power which does not require as a basis for its exercise an act of Congress.” Moreover, the president has plenary control within the executive branch of the intelligence power and classified information, which is defined, by the president, in terms of harm to national security. In short, the president is the person constitutionally charged with determining what constitutes the national security interest and national security threats for the executive branch, which is where the FBI is located.
Because the president determines the U.S. national security interest and threats against it, at least for the executive branch, there is an argument that it makes no sense for the FBI to open a counterintelligence case against the president premised on his being a threat to the national security. The president defines what a national security threat is, and thus any action by him cannot be such a threat, at least not for purposes of opening a counterintelligence investigation.

Edit: If the President decides what is classified, and what is a national security threat, then Trump decided that these documents were not security threats while he was president.

[GrantDawg]

One of Trumps lawyers just said "Everything President Trump had was covered by the Presidential Records Act. So this couldn't be a crime under the Presidential Records Act because there are none!" They really do believe the Presidential Records Act means he gets to keep his records.

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[PilotMan]

They're basically arguing that the office of the president is so powerful, and that the person in that office has so much authority that any decision they make, is legal, and that they have full authority, to bypass any process, option, or legal avenue to do any of the other stuff that you say he did or didn't do. That's basically it. It's Bannon's supreme executive authority to the nth degree.

The kicker is that there are people out there who are like, 'you know, that makes complete and total sense, and I think he's completely right'. Good old George Washington was right about the people wanting a king.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

I swear I saw this as a Netflix documentary...

This story is so bizarre. Apparently, she's been under investigation by Canadian authorities as well. But the big part was that she was outed to the trump people a black music producer who was at Mar-a-lago with Ray J, and another rapper who trump had granted clemency to. What are the odds of that being your go to for counter-intelligence?

She had a Ukrainian passport, a Russian passport, a US passport and a fake Canadian passport. Three with different names. Oh, and her dad is a truck driver from Illinois.

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

I swear I saw this as a Netflix documentary...

I guess it is along the lines of Inventing Anna.

[Kodos]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

They're basically arguing that the office of the president is so powerful, and that the person in that office has so much authority that any decision they make, is legal, and that they have full authority, to bypass any process, option, or legal avenue to do any of the other stuff that you say he did or didn't do. That's basically it. It's Bannon's supreme executive authority to the nth degree.

The kicker is that there are people out there who are like, 'you know, that makes complete and total sense, and I think he's completely right'. Good old George Washington was right about the people wanting a king.

Unless, of course, you get a BJ from an intern and lie about it.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

They're basically arguing that the office of the president is so powerful, and that the person in that office has so much authority that any decision they make, is legal, and that they have full authority, to bypass any process, option, or legal avenue to do any of the other stuff that you say he did or didn't do. That's basically it. It's Bannon's supreme executive authority to the nth degree.

The kicker is that there are people out there who are like, 'you know, that makes complete and total sense, and I think he's completely right'. Good old George Washington was right about the people wanting a king.

Unless it's a dem in that office.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Unless it's a dem in that office.

If that's the case then they're there illegally. Only possible explanation.

[Atocep]

Bill Barr is trying to do the sympathetic figure from the Trump administration trying to rehabilitate his image thing.

[Vegas Vic]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Bill Barr is trying to do the sympathetic figure from the Trump administration trying to rehabilitate his image thing.

True, but at least most of Trump's MAGA fanbase is having to come to grips with cold, hard facts. Which is more likely? Trump is delusional and lying, or dozens of former hand picked cabinet members, advisors, attorneys, internal pollsters and family members are lying. There aren't many more left for Trump to throw under the bus.