FOFC Advanced Civilization Board Game

[Passacaglia]

The game begins!

The first step is to choose which civilization you want.

The options are

Africa
Asia
Assyria
Crete
Egypt
Iberia
Illyria
Thrace

I could have swore that the rules say that you should only have one of Asia and Assyria in the game (see how they are so close to each other on the map. If that's the case, I don't know why they even had both civs -- might as well just have Assyria. Anyway, I skimmed the rules the other day and didn't see any mention of that, so maybe I'm crazy.

Anyway, the computer randomly generated the order. We have:

1. Warhammer
2. britrock
3. Autumn
4. Passacaglia
5. tarcone
6. Furrball (Warhammer's friend)

I'm envisioning a pretty friendly game, so players should feel free to ask any questions they come across. Questions or comments from the peanut gallery are welcome, too.

[Autumn]

Awesome, I was just going to suggest setting up a thread for this, but you've done even better. This is great, we can kind of help the newbies like myself along here, and then get more competitive as we know what we're doing ;-)

[Passacaglia]

One note to begin. The site is pretty good about letting you input your orders even if it's not your turn. For example, you can make all your movements, and save them until it's your turn and you can review then, or just submit them, then when it's your turn, the computer knows the moves you want to make. You can also submit unless there's a conflict -- so as long as you're not attacked, or your movements don't attack anyone else, it'll do your turn.

With choosing a civ, you can't do a waiting list, but you can submit one choice, and as long as that choice isn't taken, the computer will claim it for you when it's your turn.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Autumn

Awesome, I was just going to suggest setting up a thread for this, but you've done even better. This is great, we can kind of help the newbies like myself along here, and then get more competitive as we know what we're doing ;-)

Thanks! I was thinking screen shots would be cool too, though I'm not great with them. I assume I need to store them on some site before I can post them? That seems like effort.

[Passacaglia]

Oh, another note about screen shots -- I was just thinking about the map, really, and maybe the AST table which shows the score. Just some minor flair to possibly get others watching interested in the game. I think you'll get a warning about this when the time comes, but it's considered a no-no to give a screen shot of your deck (or show the email with your deck in it) to prove what's in your hand. I think the idea is that lying about your hand is just supposed to be part of the game, and we don't want the truth getting in the way.

[Passacaglia]

Here's some info from the "Rankings" tab on the site.

Babylon -- 56 wins
Crete -- 41 wins
Assyria -- 40 wins
Egypt -- 39 wins
Thrace -- 27 wins
Illyria -- 26 wins
Africa -- 25 wins
Iberia -- 21 wins
Asia -- 10 wins

Babylon is not an option in our game. I chose a map that doesn't include it, to accommodate the fact that we have 6 players. If we get a 2nd game going that has 8, it'll include Babylon. Or if we do a second game of 6, we can have it include Babylon, and we'll all just be a bit more spread out. Although I think that can get unfair, since some civs will have more room to wander than others. Just my opinion, though. Also note that not every civ is in every game (there are 9 civs and the max players in a game is 8), and there's no info here about how many games each civ was involved in.

I find it interesting that Crete is so high -- starting on an island makes expansion difficult and results in a slow start, but they do have some other advantages to counter that.

[Passacaglia]

More info, and I guess this does say how many times each civ was involved in a game:

Babylon -- average rank 3.54, 249 games
Egypt -- average rank 3.76, 257 games
Assyria -- average rank 3.89, 203 games
Crete -- average rank 3.97, 236 games
Asia -- average rank 4.19, 84 games
Africa -- average rank 4.23, 261 games
Iberia -- average rank 4.37, 250 games
Thrace -- average rank 4.43, 192 games
Illyria -- average rank 4.69, 252 games

But what this doesn't tell us is how many civs were in each game -- could be anywhere from 3-8 in each game. So a 3rd place finish in a 3-player game is a lot worse than a 3rd place finish in an 8-player game.

[Passacaglia]

Anyway, all that said, my advice is to choose the civ you think you'll have the most fun with.

[britrock88]

I still consider myself a newbie, but in the build-up to this game, I did jump in a couple others on the site. To this point, I've learned a little bit about the early stages of the game (namely, territorial expansion and initial city building). We'll see if I can contribute anything here.

[britrock88]

By the way, the selections so far--

1. Warhammer - Egypt
2. britrock - Crete
3. Autumn
4. Passacaglia
5. tarcone
6. Furrball

[Autumn]

I took Assyria. Go Assyrians!

[Passacaglia]

Illyria checking in.

[Passacaglia]

Weird that I didn't get an email saying that Autumn's selection had been made, and mine as well. I guess no action is required, but would have been nice to be told, especially since I got an alert about Warhammer's and brit's pick.

[britrock88]

Wonder if it's because there are no time limits? Or maybe this is peculiar to initial placement. *shrug*

FYI, Tarc, you're up. (In case you didn't get an email, either.)

[Passacaglia]

Could be -- maybe they figured that since my turn was already made, they didn't need to bother notifying me.

[Passacaglia]

Looks like tarcone checked in here last night, but didn't make his move there. I sent him a PM.

[Warhammer]

I don't think Crete is that bad. I actually like them a lot, as you can play fairly aggressive and be able to justify it, much more so than say Egypt.

[tarcone]

WE ARE IBERIA! IBERIANS RULE!

I havent really checked the rules yet.
After initial placement then what? Do we place all 55 tokens or do those get used throughout the game?

[Autumn]

They get used during the game, as population expands. There's an expansion phase each turn.

[CrimsonFox]

I will Babylon and on...

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by tarcone

WE ARE IBERIA! IBERIANS RULE!

I havent really checked the rules yet.
After initial placement then what? Do we place all 55 tokens or do those get used throughout the game?

As Autumn said, there's a population expansion phase each turn. Your population essentially doubles, although each territory has a max growth of 2. So, for example, the nearest territories that can hold more than 2 are Aquitania and Narbo, which can each hold 3. If you have 3 dudes in there, it'll only grow to 5 -- and since it can only hold 3, you'd want to move them out once it grows to 5, otherwise they'll die.

Basically, your 55 tokens are split between three groups -- population, treasury, and stock. You start with all 55 tokens in stock, and now you've turned one of them into population.

Population is important because you use them to create cities. Cities are important because the more cities you have the more (and better) trade cards you get. Trade cards are important because you use them to "buy" technology. Technology is important because a) it makes your civ more powerful and b) it's a major component of your final score. Population is also important because you need it to support your cities -- for each city you have, you need to have two population tokens on the map (sort of an urban/rural balance, I guess), otherwise a city or two will go into revolt. Tokens become population mainly through the expansion phase I mentioned earlier. Tokens leave population mainly through city-building (put 6 tokens in a province and you remove the tokens and put in a city), and dying off from overpopulating a province (either as a result of conflict or not).

Treasury is important for buying technology and building ships. Well, you can build ships with population too, but since population can do more things, it's not done often (although you might see Crete do it in order to get off the island fast). And for buying technology, it's more like the pocket change, while trade cards are like the dollar bills. Tokens become treasury through taxation -- every turn, you take two tokens from stock and put them in your treasury. The max amount of cities you can have is 9, which would mean 18 tokens going from stock to treasury. Tokens leave treasury through buying technology or ships.

It may not seem like it, but stock is important, too. I talked about taxation earlier -- two tokens per city going from stock to treasury. It's not cool if you don't have enough in your stock -- if you don't, cities will revolt again. Stock is also nice because if it runs low, your population expansion won't be as much as it could be. Maybe that's not a big deal since the tokens are out there in some sense, but sometimes it blows to think you're going to get a big population increase, only to realize a bunch is in treasury and your stock is low.

A lot of this stuff changes as you get technologies, too -- but when you see the effect of that technology when you're shopping, hopefully this (and reading the rules) help you to understand what those effects are.

[Passacaglia]

And, furrball is up. Warhammer, you can tell him about this forum and thread and see if he's interested -- would probably be nice to get everyone in on the discussion.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

I will Babylon and on...

I'll try not to give you the squeeze too much on convincing you to join the next game!

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

I'll try not to give you the squeeze too much on convincing you to join the next game!

[CrimsonFox]

Oh wait. Does that mean I'm too late to join? Pooh!

[Passacaglia]

Hey Warhammer, and word on furrball?

[Passacaglia]

Furrball is in and has selected Thrace!

Pity, I had him pegged for Africa, to be near his buddy. Now Warhammer's got a lot of room to expand.

Anyway, here's the gang:

Tarc [ Iberia ]
passacaglia [ Illyria ]
furrball [ Thrace ]
britrock88 [ Crete ]
Autumn [ Assyria ]
Warhammer [ Egypt ]

[Passacaglia]

And we're ready to begin!

1. Collect Taxes (possible city revolts)
2. Population Expansion
3. Census
4. Ship construction and maintenance
5. Movement
6. Conflict
7. City construction
8. Remove surplus population (check for city support)
9. Trade card acquisition
10. Trade
11. Resolve calamaties (check for city support)
12. Acquisition of civilization cards
13. Movement of succession markers on the AST

Collect taxes -- two tokens go from stock to treasury for each city. Since no one has cities, we move along, and also don't worry about cities going into revolt.

[Passacaglia]

1. Collect Taxes (possible city revolts)
2. Population Expansion
3. Census
4. Ship construction and maintenance
5. Movement
6. Conflict
7. City construction
8. Remove surplus population (check for city support)
9. Trade card acquisition
10. Trade
11. Resolve calamaties (check for city support)
12. Acquisition of civilization cards
13. Movement of succession markers on the AST

Population expansion -- everyone increases their population from 1 to 2.

[Passacaglia]

1. Collect Taxes (possible city revolts)
2. Population Expansion
3. Census
4. Ship construction and maintenance
5. Movement
6. Conflict
7. City construction
8. Remove surplus population (check for city support)
9. Trade card acquisition
10. Trade
11. Resolve calamaties (check for city support)
12. Acquisition of civilization cards
13. Movement of succession markers on the AST

Census -- Everyone has 2 units.

[Passacaglia]

1. Collect Taxes (possible city revolts)
2. Population Expansion
3. Census
4. Ship construction and maintenance
5. Movement
6. Conflict
7. City construction
8. Remove surplus population (check for city support)
9. Trade card acquisition
10. Trade
11. Resolve calamaties (check for city support)
12. Acquisition of civilization cards
13. Movement of succession markers on the AST

Ships cost two tokens, either from treasury or population. No one would be stupid enough to spend both population tokens on a ship, since that would kill their civilization. We move on.

[Passacaglia]

1. Collect Taxes (possible city revolts)
2. Population Expansion
3. Census
4. Ship construction and maintenance
5. Movement
6. Conflict
7. City construction
8. Remove surplus population (check for city support)
9. Trade card acquisition
10. Trade
11. Resolve calamaties (check for city support)
12. Acquisition of civilization cards
13. Movement of succession markers on the AST

Movement -- this is done in Census order, meaning the person with the highest population goes first, and the person with the lowest population goest last. We've all got the same population, and I don't know what the tiebreaker is, but tarcone is up.

[Autumn]

I think the tiebreaker is just what order they're listed in the AST track.

[Autumn]

So for the new guys (like me), just keep in mind you now have two tokens on the board. You can move one, both or neither. However make sure you don't leave them in a territory that can't support them (so at this point, don't leave two tokens on a space with a one on it).

[Passacaglia]

Good point. Also, we can all make our turns now -- it's unlikely that our movements will depend on what others are doing, so we can get our orders in now, instead of just waiting for tarcone.

[CrimsonFox]

Okay then, I'll just cheer on whoever's the underdog.
If anyone needs to drop out and needs a sub let me know.

[tarcone]

I need help Crimson. I am flying blind right now. You can be my Vice king.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

Okay then, I'll just cheer on whoever's the underdog.
If anyone needs to drop out and needs a sub let me know.

Sorry, I didn't know you were serious! I figured anyone interested would have been reading the Board Games thread and would have had a chance to join already. I'm fine restarting if others are, and maybe we can pick up an 8th by creating a thread in General Discussion.

[Passacaglia]

All movement has been complete. Nothing too interesting, but if someone wants to post a screen shot for those not playing, that'd be cool. My company's internet filter won't let me post one.

1. Collect Taxes (possible city revolts)
2. Population Expansion
3. Census
4. Ship construction and maintenance
5. Movement
6. Conflict
7. City construction
8. Remove surplus population (check for city support)
9. Trade card acquisition
10. Trade
11. Resolve calamaties (check for city support)
12. Acquisition of civilization cards
13. Movement of succession markers on the AST

I'll blow through these in one shot, since most don't apply in the 1st few rounds.

Conflict -- No Conflict.
City construction -- No one has enough population to build a city yet (6 in a territory with a square in it are needed, 12 in a territory with no square)
Remove surplus population -- No surplus population
Trade card acquisition -- You get one card per city. Since no one has any cities, no one gets any trade cards.
Trade -- Since no one has any trade cards, no one is going to trade them this round.
Resolve Calamities -- Some of the trade cards are calamities. Whoever ends up with those cards in his has bad things happen to them. Since no one has any trade cards, we skip this, too.
Acquisition of Civilization Cards -- This is done with trade cards (which have a point value based on how many of each type you have) and treasury. No one has either of these, so we skip this.

Movement of Succession Markers on the AST -- This is a big one. The winner of the game is determined by points, and you get 100 points for each space you move up on the AST. You also get 50 points for each city you currently possess, the total points you've accumulated in civilization cards, and 1 point for each treasury token. For the first few rounds, there's no requirement to move up a space, but that changes as we move on to a new Epoch.

Epoch Entry Requirements:
Stone Age - none.
Early Bronze Age - two cities in play.
Late Bronze Age - three cities in play and ownership of at least three groups of civilization cards (i.e., three of the five colors must be present). Remember that some cards belong to and count as two groups.
Early Iron Age - four cities in play and ownership of at least nine civilization cards, including civilization cards from all five groups (i.e., all five colors must be present).
Late Iron Age - five cities in play. Each space in the Late Iron Age contains a point value. To enter such a space, the value of a player's civilization cards must at least equal the value printed in the space. Commodity cards and treasury are not counted.
END - The same city requirement as the Late Iron Age (5 cities)

Different civs need to reach the next Epoch at different points, so y'all should check out the AST tab in the game (look for it on the top of the screen). That tab also provides a running score -- right now, we're all tied at 100.

[Passacaglia]

1. Collect Taxes (possible city revolts)
2. Population Expansion
3. Census
4. Ship construction and maintenance
5. Movement
6. Conflict
7. City construction
8. Remove surplus population (check for city support)
9. Trade card acquisition
10. Trade
11. Resolve calamaties (check for city support)
12. Acquisition of civilization cards
13. Movement of succession markers on the AST

No cities, so no taxes
Everyone's population has expanded from 2 to 4
Census -- all of us have 4

Ship building begins! None of us have any treasury yet, but we can now build a ship using 2 population if we want.

[Autumn]

So I have a question. My tokens in Siwa (in Egypt) only seem to be able to move to the left. It won't allow me to move on to Upper Egypt, for example, or Western Desert. I can't find anything in the rules that explains why there would be a restriction there.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Autumn

So I have a question. My tokens in Siwa (in Egypt) only seem to be able to move to the left. It won't allow me to move on to Upper Egypt, for example, or Western Desert. I can't find anything in the rules that explains why there would be a restriction there.

Are you talking about a different game? What happens when you try to move them?

[Autumn]

Yes, sorry, I joined another game as Egypt, I forgot I was looking at that one. When I click on the unit it shows the arrows (I have that turend on) and it doesn't have any pointing to the right. If I try to click on the right, nothing happens. Just a glitch?

[Passacaglia]

Could be, I guess. But you can move to Jalo or Cyrenacia?

Try clicking on 'problem' to report it. From what I recall when I played a year ago, the guy who runs the site was pretty good about looking into things quickly.

[Autumn]

Turns out that part of the board is out of bounds since it's only a 5 player game. I thought there would be some kind of indicator. Good to know for anyone playing other games.

[Autumn]

Okay, so I didn't realize this, and figured it was just a glitch, so I'll let another new players know. The normal map view only scrolls over to the right to the edge of the legal territory. Since we only have six players the area further than that is out of play. If you zoom in you can scroll over there, so I had assumed it was part of the map but the site was glitched. But I was wrong. It probably only impacts me for the most part since I'm on that side. Screwed me a little bit but I guess I"ll figure it out.

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by tarcone

I need help Crimson. I am flying blind right now. You can be my Vice king.

Viceking sounds great. But only if I get a cool robe.

So is this actual software you are using that everyone has? I thought it was a board game that Pass had and no one else needed it? And yes Pass I'm interested but I don't have any softw3are (but could get some if it isn't pricey). I do have Civ 2 and Civ 3.

[Autumn]

http://civ.rol-play.com/

It's run through this site, CF.

[CrimsonFox]

Neat site!

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Autumn

Okay, so I didn't realize this, and figured it was just a glitch, so I'll let another new players know. The normal map view only scrolls over to the right to the edge of the legal territory. Since we only have six players the area further than that is out of play. If you zoom in you can scroll over there, so I had assumed it was part of the map but the site was glitched. But I was wrong. It probably only impacts me for the most part since I'm on that side. Screwed me a little bit but I guess I"ll figure it out.

Is this a 2nd reason to start over? I'm cool with that -- we can include CF, and maybe even grab an 8th.