Werewolf XXV: A long time ago...game over, Sith win,full role listing at 2030 - Page 36

TazFTW · 03-10-2006, 02:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SackAttack

We haven't gotten a Sith yet, and it seems evident from today's description that the killer tonight is different from the usual culprit

How is this Sith kill different then the other kills? I mean all kills involved a Sith with two scarlet sabers.

pennywisesb · 03-10-2006, 02:18 AM

Wow, I just can't believe the bad luck we are having weeding out the sith. At this point I'm 90% sure Hoops is a jedi, so any suspicions cast upon him at this point will be the first people I look at. There's no way he'd pick AE to take out with all the suspicions we've had about one of the three (barkeep/path, AE, or hoops) being a jedi. I think this was a setup by the sith. I'm most suspicious of KingFC at this point as well as KWHit. I'll wait to cast a vote until tomorrow however. I'm going to bed.

SackAttack · 03-10-2006, 04:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TazFTW

How is this Sith kill different then the other kills? I mean all kills involved a Sith with two scarlet sabers.

Taz, check out the first or second line from saldana's description of the kill:

Quote:

Originally Posted by saldana

There is more evil, more hatred, more POWER than ever before. It is this more than anything that draws you all to the galley once again.

Either it's the same Sith making the kill, and he's feeding off of the dead Jedi through the force to gain the added power that's being referenced, or what we've seen before has been the apprentice, and ardent was killed by the master.

The third possibility is I'm wrong about the Sith being different, and that's saldana's version of an alarm clock trying to blast us awake before we piss what's left of the game away.

I tend to think we saw the Sith Lord tonight, just because of the mention of how much more powerful he is than anything we've seen up to now. The fact that both Sith kills used two scarlet sabers isn't particularly cogent to the identities of the killers, I don't think.

TazFTW · 03-10-2006, 04:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SackAttack

Taz, check out the first or second line from saldana's description of the kill:

Either it's the same Sith making the kill, and he's feeding off of the dead Jedi through the force to gain the added power that's being referenced, or what we've seen before has been the apprentice, and ardent was killed by the master.

The third possibility is I'm wrong about the Sith being different, and that's saldana's version of an alarm clock trying to blast us awake before we piss what's left of the game away.

I tend to think we saw the Sith Lord tonight, just because of the mention of how much more powerful he is than anything we've seen up to now. The fact that both Sith kills used two scarlet sabers isn't particularly cogent to the identities of the killers, I don't think.

I think it is the third option. Although now that I think about it in past games, the wolves usually cannot send the same killer on consecutive nights. Then again, if the Sith have been alternating what makes this particular one more powerful than the rest? Which makes me revert back to the third option that we're getting close to endgame.

Grammaticus · 03-10-2006, 06:03 AM

I don't think restricting the wolves to sending a different killer out each night is normal. I'm guessing they can send the same guy out as much as they want.

Grammaticus · 03-10-2006, 06:04 AM

dola,
what does everyone else think about it being a different killer?

TazFTW · 03-10-2006, 06:14 AM

Who are you leaning towards voting for Gramm?

TazFTW · 03-10-2006, 06:50 AM

After looking through the entire thread, the following people haven't been targeted: Cartman, Pennywise, SackAttack, SnDvls and Grammaticus. I am unsure of kingfc and KWhit. Hoops, is on my 99.89% trusted list.

As I type this, the post count for everyone looks like; kingfc22 (38), KWhit (45), cartman (52), pennywiseb (64), SnDvls (69), TazFTW (92), Grammaticus (111), SackAttack (121), hoopsguy (234).

Sack and Gramm (along with Ardent) were part of the controversial vote switch way back when. Sack's vote switch made it a tie but with his and the vote count posts being close, maybe there is nothing to it. Just worth noting.

Kingfc22 and Pennywise (along with stkelly) missed a lynch vote. This is where pennywise reason had to do with the fire department and stkelly had a hurt child. Not sure if we can gather anything from that. Would a Sith intentionally or unintentionally miss a vote? We usually think people are suspicious when they do not vote.

When the Barkeep vs Hoops thing was going on, pennywise and Gramm both question why the discussion went from Barkeep/Hoops to Taz/KWhit. Not unusual at the time but with hindsight, wondering what happened to the 'Jedi vs my highly likelihood of being a Jedi' battle looks suspicious.

I have no idea about Cartman. Most of his posts are either asking questions, votes, declarations of confusion, and I'm reading up on what I've missed. He was after Qwik from the beginning but with Qwik's usual nuttyness, I don't know. Would a Jedi put his body through eating a Krispy Kreme burger?

SackAttack has posted quite a bit about the Star Wars Universe, lightsaber colors, canon stuff, etc... He voted dubb early in that lynching but we have no idea if dubb was a Sith or a helper and if he was a helper whether or not they knew each other or some variation.

SnDvls, I have no clue on. All I know is when I was looking at his posts, nothing really stood out as suspicious, which I guess could be a very careful wolf play.

Gramm has been interesting. Gramm had a "WTF just happened??" post when Mckerney switched late to lynch Dubb. He has been on Hoops for a few days now. Earlier on, I put Gramm on my most trusted list because he believed I was a Jedi when Hoops and AE were going after me. Since I know AE is a Jedi and Hoops is on my most trusted list now, his trusting of me could have been because he knew I was a Jedi because he is a Sith. His saying that I'm a Jedi could be to get into my circle of trust. The compelled vote by Hoops is intriguing. If Gramm is a Sith, is it possible that he had Hoops vote for him because he (Gramm) hasn't been under any suspicion while hoops has had a lot of suspicion thrown his way?

hoopsguy · 03-10-2006, 06:51 AM

I think it is the same Sith killing, with the more powerful line tied to the shifts we've seen in the balance of Sith/Jedi power. The two lightsaber attack is probably unique to the one Sith. If/when we get him I expect to see something different from the next Sith.

TazFTW · 03-10-2006, 07:01 AM

I knew I had something to remember about SnDvls and that was his compelled vote. His compelled vote didn't appear as a normal vote, it came in Saldana's actions. While grilling hoops about hoops' compelled vote, SnDvls made mention of his compelled PM having something in common with AE. Since AE is a Jedi, SnDvls will now move to my trusted list.

TazFTW · 03-10-2006, 07:02 AM

VOTE GRAMMATICUS

hoopsguy · 03-10-2006, 07:10 AM

Taz, thanks for jogging my memory on a point ... I haven't yet posted on the choice of the "influenced" vote.

It didn't make any sense at all for Gram = Sith when I first thought about it. But Gram was among the most trusted for several of the remaining Jedi. I was not, plus I was being compelled to vote. If you assume that people are not going to follow my compelled vote, then Gram is pretty safe on Day 7 despite getting the early vote. It isn't like I was able to expand on my reasons for voting for him, build an actual case for the vote.

It could then be spun, if I was to die and be shown as a Jedi, that the Sith would not put a Sith in harms way. As I thought about this scenario, the more I thought it was possible that this is what happened. And that is when I had hoped to be able to expand upon my vote for Gram yesterday (Post #1613).

I was also increasingly suspicious when he tried to portray my situation as one of using the tie-breaker power, when it had already been demonstrated to both create and break ties (posts 1607 - 1611).

The only reason I'm not rushing off to vote for Gram right now is that I'm not sure that a Sith would be this focused in his pursuit of me. It obviously drew a significant amount of attention to him yesterday and the risk/reward wasn't there if I survived the day. I've also been giving him the benefit of the doubt since we learned that the Day 1 lynch vote run-off involved two Jedi. I don't think that a Sith would put himself in harms way by making a late vote-switch between the two of them.

Poli · 03-10-2006, 07:10 AM

Thanks for the mercy killing, Sith. This eliminates any problem of getting online while I'm at home. I actually appreciate it. I'm heading home in about 5 minutes.

Good luck, Jedi, may the Force be with you.

TazFTW · 03-10-2006, 07:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Taz, thanks for jogging my memory on a point ... I haven't yet posted on the choice of the "influenced" vote.

It didn't make any sense at all for Gram = Sith when I first thought about it. But Gram was among the most trusted for several of the remaining Jedi. I was not, plus I was being compelled to vote. If you assume that people are not going to follow my compelled vote, then Gram is pretty safe on Day 7 despite getting the early vote. It isn't like I was able to expand on my reasons for voting for him, build an actual case for the vote.

It could then be spun, if I was to die and be shown as a Jedi, that the Sith would not put a Sith in harms way. As I thought about this scenario, the more I thought it was possible that this is what happened. And that is when I had hoped to be able to expand upon my vote for Gram yesterday (Post #1613).

I was also increasingly suspicious when he tried to portray my situation as one of using the tie-breaker power, when it had already been demonstrated to both create and break ties (posts 1607 - 1611).

The only reason I'm not rushing off to vote for Gram right now is that I'm not sure that a Sith would be this focused in his pursuit of me. It obviously drew a significant amount of attention to him yesterday and the risk/reward wasn't there if I survived the day. I've also been giving him the benefit of the doubt since we learned that the Day 1 lynch vote run-off involved two Jedi. I don't think that a Sith would put himself in harms way by making a late vote-switch between the two of them.

Okay...

What are your feelings about Cartman and the Krispy Kreme burger?

hoopsguy · 03-10-2006, 07:19 AM

His four straight votes for Qwikshot seemed non-Sith to me at the time. Again, I don't think they want to draw that kind of attention on themselves and when Qwik comes up as a Jedi that is going to loook bad for him. But at this stage in the game, I'm not looking at this quite as charitably. When I get to work this morning I'm going to try and put together a quick list of pros/cons on each of the remaining players.

As far as the burger, I loved both the concept and the actual description of the dining experience. Great, amusing read. But a non-factor in the Jedi/Sith evaluation

Grammaticus · 03-10-2006, 08:15 AM

VOTE HOOPS

hoopsguy · 03-10-2006, 08:49 AM

Gram, should I assume that is not an "influenced" vote, given the lack of reasons here? That all past arguments hold?

Grammaticus · 03-10-2006, 08:55 AM

No influence, but I suspect you already know that.

hoopsguy · 03-10-2006, 09:13 AM

Remaining players, listed in order from Post #1:

KWhit - he has been on my suspect list for quite awhile, not nearly as interactive in this game as last two when he was big villager asset

Hoopsguy - Jedi, role revealed

Gram - trying really, really hard to make this a me vs him showdown, late vote move on Day 1 doesn't strike me as +EV Sith play

Taz - Jedi, role unknown. Vote moved away from him on Day 4 in what has been shown to be a Jedi/Jedi (Taz/Qwikshot) showdown

Cartman - if Sith, he has played the confused Jedi part very well

King - infrequent poster, missed key vote (AE vs Dubb)

Penny - a guy that I've lost track of a couple of different times in this game. I appreciate the fact that he hasn't gone out of his way to hang me, but worry a little bit about that as well ... plenty of times where "wolves" will buddy up to a villager to earn favor later in game.

SnDvls - had vote moved on Day 5 during Jedi/Jedi (Me/Stkelly) showdown, others with votes moved include AE (Jedi) and me. Fairly infrequent poster this game, but was more active yesterday. Tried to push me to clear/damn myself yesterday. Feels Jedi ...

Sack - biggest remaining Star Wars geek? Another guy with late vote move on Day 1 that doesn't seem Sith-like.

I don't think I've played much werewolf with Sack prior to this game. Does anyone have any impressions on whether he is playing his normal game here?

cartman · 03-10-2006, 09:24 AM

I can honestly say that I am a confused Jedi. As others have posted, this has been an SOB of a game. And this is only the second time I've played WW, an the first time I've lived past the 2nd day. So a lot of the subtle nuances that others are picking up on from playing each other in lots of games are just flying right over my head.

It seems kinda clear to me that we can't use voting records to deduce much, since everyone has overwhelmingly picked fellow Jedis to lynch. I don't see any instances of voluntary late votes moves that saved someone who wasn't found later to be a Jedi.

So we are back to the Day 1 method it seems of playing the numbers game. But since there are so few of us left, the "taking a stab in the dark" approach has a lot more chances of success.

cartman · 03-10-2006, 09:42 AM

Dola, as for the weekend, I'm for doing like we did last weekend, and having the vote due by Sunday night.

pennywisesb · 03-10-2006, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cartman

Dola, as for the weekend, I'm for doing like we did last weekend, and having the vote due by Sunday night.

I think the board might be down, so I would suppose that would have a big influence on how the game continues through the weekend.

*edited for spelling

pennywisesb · 03-10-2006, 10:27 AM

For some reason when I analyze the Gramm v. Hoops scenario I think we have another Jedi v. Jedi showdown. The sith have done an amazing job at allowing us to pursue these roads throughout the game and I just don't see anything positive coming out of this H v. G scenario.

As most people have said, KWHit has been extrememly quiet this game, which is definately not his MO and when he has spoken up its been mostly to just agree/disagree with what others have said. I think King has pretty much played the same way but he's at least thrown his weight out there in offering various opinions on players. At this point I'm going to:

Vote KWHit

This is subject to change pending new evidence.

hoopsguy · 03-10-2006, 10:28 AM

I'm OK with whatever the majority wants to do with this weekend. I'll have more availability over the weekend than I will next week, but will make due with whatever schedule is agreed upon.

As Penny states, if the board is down for a good chunk of the weekend that might be a reason to hold off until Monday for the next round.

hoopsguy · 03-10-2006, 10:34 AM

Er, make do ... really would like to edit every once in awhile in these games to avoid looking like a dumbass.

KWhit · 03-10-2006, 10:44 AM

Looks like I'm the early front-runner today. I can see why, I suppose, when you look at my past couple of games. I have been much less active in this game for 2 reasons - I'm busy as hell at work, and I haven't had clear opinions on any of the players.

But, I am starting to feel better about Hoops and therefore Taz. Hoops' post about how he'd have to take a lot of unnecessary risks to do the things he has done if he were a Sith make sense to me and I agree. There was very little reward (but a considerable risk) for his actions of the past few days if he were a Sith.

So I feel like Hoops is ok. He vouched for Taz, so I feel pretty good about him. I know I'm a Jedi. I feel like sndvls vote move was legit, so for now, I think he is a Jedi.

Who does that leave?
Gram
Cartman
Kingfc22
Pennywise
SackAttack

I feel pretty sure that 2 or 3 of these guys are Sith. By voting for one of them, the odds are in our favor. I feel like Gram is making a play that seems slightly un-sith-like at this point because he's putting himself on the line going after Hoops.

I'm leaning toward Kingfc22 or SackAttack. I think I'll put a vote on one of them now, but am open to changing it if something interesting develops.

Vote Kingfc22.

SackAttack · 03-10-2006, 11:45 AM

Good morning, guys.

Gettin' some breakfast to clear the fuzz from my noggin. Then I'll sit down and take a look and see what I can see about the situation we're in.

hoopsguy · 03-10-2006, 11:45 AM

KWhit is probably the person that I'm the most uneasy about at this stage. Of course, his other two votes are coming from people who are also closer to the bottom than the top of my trust list.

VOTE KWHIT

hoopsguy · 03-10-2006, 11:47 AM

Votes as of Post #1778:

KWhit - King (1748), Penny (1773), Hoops (1778)
Gram - Taz (1761)
Hoops - Gram (1766)
King - KWhit (1776)

No votes: Cartman, SnDvls, Sack

cartman · 03-10-2006, 12:02 PM

The past couple of days I've gone with the pile-on crowd for my vote, and each time it's been wrong. There are three of us left to vote, and KWhit seems to be the popular choice right now. If there are no vote changes from the existing voters, all it will take is one more vote and he's done for.

I'm going to throw another name out there for consideration. It's a gut feeling vote, and I really don't have anything concrete to base it on, other than little tidbits here and there I've read in this thread about him.

VOTE SackAttack

SackAttack · 03-10-2006, 12:06 PM

I'm having trouble getting past the isolation of hoopsguy here.

If he's Sith, removing the other choice from the Group of Three to leave him standing alone makes no sense - particularly since that member already said they would be AFK for much of the weekend due to travel. In other words, he might have been able to pin blame on ardent with ardent not around to defend himself.

So if hoopsguy is Sith, he voluntarily denuded himself of cover that might have been useful - and as I say, we've got to be close to the endgame. It isn't necessarily today, but the closer they are, the fewer risks they have to take, and self-isolation is a big risk.

I think hoopsguy is Jedi, as there's no reason for the Sith to take that risk at this point (we haven't given them any reason to fear).

I said earlier that I think this is an isolation ploy by the Sith, and I'm coming back to that, the more I think around this thing.

vote Grammaticus

Vote subject to change if necessary, either because we get new info, or if everybody feels it's needed to stave off the effects of a compelled vote.

Grammaticus · 03-10-2006, 12:29 PM

I'm putting all my cards on the table.

Grammaticus · 03-10-2006, 12:29 PM

I’m thinking this is probably the end game for the Sith. If they win today the game is more than likely over. If not, we may have more time. Also, I won’t be around after 5pm. So, I would like to get whatever I can out there prior. I’m out at 5pm until Saturday AM. Whatever you do with the play schedule is okay with me.

I am a Jedi that believes our lightsaber is our life. I have trained with every minute of my spare time to better my fighting skills. I wield the Azure blue blade and have been given the opportunity to guard one Jedi each night. Following is the schedule I took and a brief reason why.

Night 1 Ardent (I believed he was the seer and/or just good Jedi, strong player)
Night 2 Desnudo (going for strong player that was low profile at time)*jackpot*
Night 3 Grammaticus (felt I was being outspoken and maybe a target)
Night 4 SnDvls (going for low key, strong player again, worked w/Desnudo)
Night 5 Grammaticus (no read on anyone, going after hoops, protected self)
Night 6 Cartman (low key, Jedi would get no info if he was killed)
Night 7 Hoops (wanted to test and see if he was Sith, what would happen?)

I asked Master Saldana what would happen if I guarded a Sith thinking he was a Jedi. I was told that I would not see anything directly, but It would have an understood effect in the battle scene.

When the night post said, “The disturbance through the force is different tonight. There is more evil, more hatred, more POWER than ever before.” I take this to be the effect that is different. The fact Sack indicated he thought it was a different Jedi, leads to my confidence here. Basically, that I am not seeing something I want to see, but someone else noticed a difference too.

That is why I still think Hoops is a Sith. In addition to everything else I said before. Again I’m out at 5pm EST, so this should give me some time to respond to anyone.

Grammaticus · 03-10-2006, 12:33 PM

dola,

Here is my overview on remaining players based on how I feel they are from good to bad.

Grammaticus - I know he is good
SackAttack – was on my good list, still feel he is good
Cartman – I think good – just don’t see a first timer as Sith and Play style confirms
SnDvls – Still not sure, probably more good than bad, nothing happened when I protected him
Pennywisesb – still no read
Kwhit – tossed out as option by Hoops – No feel on him
Kingfc22 – still no read, missed vote, should be worried about him
TazFTW – Uneasy, tied to Hoops and gunning for me. Sith vote changed to protect him, says he is strong willed, no one else confirmed this as a role. Sounds fishy.
Hoopsguy – bad, I’m sure of this. Having not tested the big three until the last minute will probably cause the game to go to the Sith. I trusted AE from the start and that is evident in my post history. I was suspicious of Path/BK, but Hoops was my number one suspect from the early days of the game. Even Hoops says it should be Him or Taz to try and build a circle of trust ever so late in the game….

My guess on Sith would be
1 – Hoops
2 – Taz
3 – King
4 – Penny/Kwhit

pennywisesb · 03-10-2006, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grammaticus

I’m thinking this is probably the end game for the Sith. If they win today the game is more than likely over. If not, we may have more time. Also, I won’t be around after 5pm. So, I would like to get whatever I can out there prior. I’m out at 5pm until Saturday AM. Whatever you do with the play schedule is okay with me.

I am a Jedi that believes our lightsaber is our life. I have trained with every minute of my spare time to better my fighting skills. I wield the Azure blue blade and have been given the opportunity to guard one Jedi each night. Following is the schedule I took and a brief reason why.

Night 1 Ardent (I believed he was the seer and/or just good Jedi, strong player)
Night 2 Desnudo (going for strong player that was low profile at time)*jackpot*
Night 3 Grammaticus (felt I was being outspoken and maybe a target)
Night 4 SnDvls (going for low key, strong player again, worked w/Desnudo)
Night 5 Grammaticus (no read on anyone, going after hoops, protected self)
Night 6 Cartman (low key, Jedi would get no info if he was killed)
Night 7 Hoops (wanted to test and see if he was Sith, what would happen?)

I asked Master Saldana what would happen if I guarded a Sith thinking he was a Jedi. I was told that I would not see anything directly, but It would have an understood effect in the battle scene.

When the night post said, “The disturbance through the force is different tonight. There is more evil, more hatred, more POWER than ever before.” I take this to be the effect that is different. The fact Sack indicated he thought it was a different Jedi, leads to my confidence here. Basically, that I am not seeing something I want to see, but someone else noticed a difference too.

That is why I still think Hoops is a Sith. In addition to everything else I said before. Again I’m out at 5pm EST, so this should give me some time to respond to anyone.

Welcome to the party.

SackAttack · 03-10-2006, 12:35 PM

unvote Grammaticus

We haven't seen a death scene involving an azure lightsaber, so for the moment I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Do you realize, I keep forgetting penny is in this game? Him and KWhit both.

pennywisesb · 03-10-2006, 12:41 PM

Gramm, don't you think that would be an unfair advantage that Saldana gave you? You are the bodyguard, not the seer, and by using his explanation the way you think he used it, he'd essentially be telling you that Hoops was a sith. His gameplay doesn't really correspond to that of a sith's as far as I can tell, and if you are wrong with thinking he's sith and we vote off another jedi, we are going to be in some serious sh*t. Now, if the group decides to go after hoops I guess I'd be game, but I'm just having a hard time understanding his play if he is in fact, a sith. Hoops is a stellar player though, so I can see him playing this way to throw us off his trail possibly...

pennywisesb · 03-10-2006, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SackAttack

Do you realize, I keep forgetting penny is in this game? Him and KWhit both.

Its ok Sack, you are under alot of stress lately with your Dodgers actually having some competition in the NL West of the DKBL...

Grammaticus · 03-10-2006, 12:53 PM

I don’t know Penny, is it an unfair advantage? If I am essentially watching the door of the Jedi, how can he go out and make a kill without me seeing. What do we have to offset mind control? Apparently the Sith can still leave his room or they change killer w/o me knowing, not sure.

It started out by me asking if I would see the Sith leave his room if he went out for a kill and the answer was basically that I would not, but that was not basically the end of it. So I asked again if I would know that the killer was different and I got the answer that I rephrased in my post.

The question is, do you agree that the fight scene post was different? Was there an understood difference? I would have thought it would indicate there is a different Sith using a single blade or something more obvious. Maybe it was a combined witness effect, not sure. But I did see that in a past game. I’m basically trying for anything I can get to save us Jedi.

SackAttack · 03-10-2006, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pennywisesb

Gramm, don't you think that would be an unfair advantage that Saldana gave you? You are the bodyguard, not the seer, and by using his explanation the way you think he used it, he'd essentially be telling you that Hoops was a sith.

That's an inductive leap I'm not sure I'd be willing to make. I would imagine that the Sith could specify who would make the attacks, so I'm not sure that isn't what happened here.

They certainly wouldn't know ahead of time that the bodyguard was protecting one of theirs.

pennywisesb · 03-10-2006, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SackAttack

I would imagine that the Sith could specify who would make the attacks, so I'm not sure that isn't what happened here.

They certainly wouldn't know ahead of time that the bodyguard was protecting one of theirs.

I'm not sure I understand what you are saying. If they didn't know they were being protected, do you think they would have just made an excellent guess and not sent Hoops out? Gramm has been going after hoops pretty vehemiently, so I'm finding it hard to imagine if hoops was a sith that he'd think gramm would be protecting him.

I'm not against a hoops vote if thats where we want to go, but I just want to make sure we are as close to 100% sure we are lynching a sith today.

Man, the game is really picking up and getting interesting and then the weekend comes around and we are gonna have to take a 2 day break from this game

SnDvls · 03-10-2006, 01:25 PM

I had two guys at the top of my list going into today. One seems to clear me (kwhit) and the other suspects me (king). The one that is clearing me, could be a ploy to get my trust, has his vote on my other canidate, and vise versa.

I think this could be a way to try and gain my trust and vote. I think the only reason king suspects me is my past votes for him. It's gut instince time again.

vote Kwhit

SackAttack · 03-10-2006, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pennywisesb

I'm not sure I understand what you are saying. If they didn't know they were being protected, do you think they would have just made an excellent guess and not sent Hoops out?

If they had sent the same Sith out every night (and we don't know that they did), with numbers decreasing, if the bodyguard - or the witness! - is still with us, it would be a riskier ploy to trot the same player out every time than at the start of the game.

Quote:

Gramm has been going after hoops pretty vehemiently, so I'm finding it hard to imagine if hoops was a sith that he'd think gramm would be protecting him.

You're making the assumption that he would have known who the bodyguard was.

Quote:

I'm not against a hoops vote if thats where we want to go, but I just want to make sure we are as close to 100% sure we are lynching a sith today.

Man, the game is really picking up and getting interesting and then the weekend comes around and we are gonna have to take a 2 day break from this game

I truthfully don't think a hoops vote helps us. Even with Gramm being the bodyguard, isolating hoops may have been meant to play off of the animosity between those two. It's a ploy that's useful to the Sith regardless of whether or not Gramm is one of theirs.

SnDvls · 03-10-2006, 01:28 PM

dola - I'd prefer we do a long day over the weekend

hoopsguy · 03-10-2006, 01:30 PM

Gram, if killing me is what it takes to test your theory you are welcome to do it. I know that you are wrong here, but you've been voting for me for four days now and I have basically given up changing your mind. If you are really what you say you are, then we are indeed looking at Jedi/Jedi showdown for the 8th straight day.

I'm not going to criticize your choice of people to guard. Obviously you did a good job on Night 2 with Desnudo and no one would fault you for guarding yourself a couple of times here.

You have never answered my question that I asked in #1604 - why the hell would I take such a random approach as a Sith? It is a long post, so I'm not going to paste the whole thing over again, but here is the gist of the events:

Quote:

So my sequence was:
1.) Plant info early in Day 6 to set up a later fake reveal
2.) Move vote to avoid tie, despite strong likelihood of not needing to do so
3.) After extension, come out with the fake reveal initially set up in #1
4.) After fake reveal, then accuse another player before end of evening
5.) Come out today with a vote that I saw is forced, against the guy who is the most suspicious of me based on voting patterns of the last few days
6.) Put myself in a position where in order to pull off my bluff I need to continue playing a completely defensive game

Why in the world would a Sith play this way? If you guys really think that this sequence of events makes sense, then I'm obviously not going to move votes by the end of the day.

If I was a Sith in the position that I found myself at the end of Day 5 I expect that I would have given myself as much freedom as possible to present my own defense and/or build arguments towards other people. What I most certainly would not have done is tie one hand behind my back like this a day after being involved in a tie where Team Sith had to move a vote to keep me alive.

SnDvls · 03-10-2006, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grammaticus

Night 4 SnDvls (going for low key, strong player again, worked w/Desnudo)

OT&OOC: I'm flattered you feel I"m a "strong player" I feel I've sucked at all the games I've been in and never lasted to the end but once (if I remember right)
thanks man.

hoopsguy · 03-10-2006, 01:38 PM

Also, this post confuses me ...

From Sack, post #1793

Quote:

If they had sent the same Sith out every night (and we don't know that they did), with numbers decreasing, if the bodyguard - or the witness! - is still with us, it would be a riskier ploy to trot the same player out every time than at the start of the game.

Actually, it makes more sense for them to send the same guy out until he is caught rather than taking the chance of two guys being caught. I fully believe that the same person went out each and every night based on the two lightsaber descriptions. Not every Sith fights with two lightsabers ...

hoopsguy · 03-10-2006, 01:43 PM

Another weird one from Sack, same post (1793):

Quote:

I truthfully don't think a hoops vote helps us. Even with Gramm being the bodyguard, isolating hoops may have been meant to play off of the animosity between those two. It's a ploy that's useful to the Sith regardless of whether or not Gramm is one of theirs.

Who is the one doing the isolating in terms of Gram/me in this case? Gram by guarding me? Saldana by varying his description last night? I don't see the Sith isolating unless you mean by leaving us both alive when he has been voting for me. But I have yet to vote for him and have gone as far as to say that I think he is Jedi even before he revealed he is the bodyguard due to the -EV Day 1 vote switch. Which is the same reason I've steered away from you ...

SackAttack · 03-10-2006, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Also, this post confuses me ...

From Sack, post #1793

Actually, it makes more sense for them to send the same guy out until he is caught rather than taking the chance of two guys being caught. I fully believe that the same person went out each and every night based on the two lightsaber descriptions. Not every Sith fights with two lightsabers ...

Here's the thing.

We don't know what roles are left, on either side, other than Gramm as bodyguard.

We don't know how directly we can see the Sith at night, but by the same token they don't know that about our capabilities either.

We don't know how exposed their guys are when they go out at night, and the converse is also true.

They've done a great job of confusing us so far, which is why I could see them throwing us a curveball by sending out somebody different last night regardless of external events. Keeps us from being able to pin any (either?) of them down.

hoopsguy · 03-10-2006, 01:48 PM

So you are suggesting that both Sith have identical twin lightsabers?

03-10-2006, 02:18 AM	#1752
pennywisesb College Benchwarmer Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Los Angeles, California	Wow, I just can't believe the bad luck we are having weeding out the sith. At this point I'm 90% sure Hoops is a jedi, so any suspicions cast upon him at this point will be the first people I look at. There's no way he'd pick AE to take out with all the suspicions we've had about one of the three (barkeep/path, AE, or hoops) being a jedi. I think this was a setup by the sith. I'm most suspicious of KingFC at this point as well as KWHit. I'll wait to cast a vote until tomorrow however. I'm going to bed. __________________ Myspace Profile

03-10-2006, 06:14 AM	#1757
TazFTW Pro Rookie Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Honolulu, HI	Who are you leaning towards voting for Gramm? __________________ "Teams don't want to make the trip anymore," says Hawaii coach June Jones. "They come here, we kick their ass, they go home." Fire Ron Lee.

03-10-2006, 06:50 AM	#1758
TazFTW Pro Rookie Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Honolulu, HI	After looking through the entire thread, the following people haven't been targeted: Cartman, Pennywise, SackAttack, SnDvls and Grammaticus. I am unsure of kingfc and KWhit. Hoops, is on my 99.89% trusted list. As I type this, the post count for everyone looks like; kingfc22 (38), KWhit (45), cartman (52), pennywiseb (64), SnDvls (69), TazFTW (92), Grammaticus (111), SackAttack (121), hoopsguy (234). Sack and Gramm (along with Ardent) were part of the controversial vote switch way back when. Sack's vote switch made it a tie but with his and the vote count posts being close, maybe there is nothing to it. Just worth noting. Kingfc22 and Pennywise (along with stkelly) missed a lynch vote. This is where pennywise reason had to do with the fire department and stkelly had a hurt child. Not sure if we can gather anything from that. Would a Sith intentionally or unintentionally miss a vote? We usually think people are suspicious when they do not vote. When the Barkeep vs Hoops thing was going on, pennywise and Gramm both question why the discussion went from Barkeep/Hoops to Taz/KWhit. Not unusual at the time but with hindsight, wondering what happened to the 'Jedi vs my highly likelihood of being a Jedi' battle looks suspicious. I have no idea about Cartman. Most of his posts are either asking questions, votes, declarations of confusion, and I'm reading up on what I've missed. He was after Qwik from the beginning but with Qwik's usual nuttyness, I don't know. Would a Jedi put his body through eating a Krispy Kreme burger? SackAttack has posted quite a bit about the Star Wars Universe, lightsaber colors, canon stuff, etc... He voted dubb early in that lynching but we have no idea if dubb was a Sith or a helper and if he was a helper whether or not they knew each other or some variation. SnDvls, I have no clue on. All I know is when I was looking at his posts, nothing really stood out as suspicious, which I guess could be a very careful wolf play. Gramm has been interesting. Gramm had a "WTF just happened??" post when Mckerney switched late to lynch Dubb. He has been on Hoops for a few days now. Earlier on, I put Gramm on my most trusted list because he believed I was a Jedi when Hoops and AE were going after me. Since I know AE is a Jedi and Hoops is on my most trusted list now, his trusting of me could have been because he knew I was a Jedi because he is a Sith. His saying that I'm a Jedi could be to get into my circle of trust. The compelled vote by Hoops is intriguing. If Gramm is a Sith, is it possible that he had Hoops vote for him because he (Gramm) hasn't been under any suspicion while hoops has had a lot of suspicion thrown his way? __________________ "Teams don't want to make the trip anymore," says Hawaii coach June Jones. "They come here, we kick their ass, they go home." Fire Ron Lee.

03-10-2006, 07:01 AM	#1760
TazFTW Pro Rookie Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Honolulu, HI	I knew I had something to remember about SnDvls and that was his compelled vote. His compelled vote didn't appear as a normal vote, it came in Saldana's actions. While grilling hoops about hoops' compelled vote, SnDvls made mention of his compelled PM having something in common with AE. Since AE is a Jedi, SnDvls will now move to my trusted list. __________________ "Teams don't want to make the trip anymore," says Hawaii coach June Jones. "They come here, we kick their ass, they go home." Fire Ron Lee.

03-10-2006, 07:02 AM	#1761
TazFTW Pro Rookie Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Honolulu, HI	VOTE GRAMMATICUS __________________ "Teams don't want to make the trip anymore," says Hawaii coach June Jones. "They come here, we kick their ass, they go home." Fire Ron Lee.

03-10-2006, 06:03 AM	#1755
Grammaticus Pro Rookie Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Tennessee	I don't think restricting the wolves to sending a different killer out each night is normal. I'm guessing they can send the same guy out as much as they want.

03-10-2006, 06:04 AM	#1756
Grammaticus Pro Rookie Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Tennessee	dola, what does everyone else think about it being a different killer?

03-10-2006, 06:51 AM	#1759
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	I think it is the same Sith killing, with the more powerful line tied to the shifts we've seen in the balance of Sith/Jedi power. The two lightsaber attack is probably unique to the one Sith. If/when we get him I expect to see something different from the next Sith.

03-10-2006, 07:10 AM	#1762
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	Taz, thanks for jogging my memory on a point ... I haven't yet posted on the choice of the "influenced" vote. It didn't make any sense at all for Gram = Sith when I first thought about it. But Gram was among the most trusted for several of the remaining Jedi. I was not, plus I was being compelled to vote. If you assume that people are not going to follow my compelled vote, then Gram is pretty safe on Day 7 despite getting the early vote. It isn't like I was able to expand on my reasons for voting for him, build an actual case for the vote. It could then be spun, if I was to die and be shown as a Jedi, that the Sith would not put a Sith in harms way. As I thought about this scenario, the more I thought it was possible that this is what happened. And that is when I had hoped to be able to expand upon my vote for Gram yesterday (Post #1613). I was also increasingly suspicious when he tried to portray my situation as one of using the tie-breaker power, when it had already been demonstrated to both create and break ties (posts 1607 - 1611). The only reason I'm not rushing off to vote for Gram right now is that I'm not sure that a Sith would be this focused in his pursuit of me. It obviously drew a significant amount of attention to him yesterday and the risk/reward wasn't there if I survived the day. I've also been giving him the benefit of the doubt since we learned that the Day 1 lynch vote run-off involved two Jedi. I don't think that a Sith would put himself in harms way by making a late vote-switch between the two of them.

03-10-2006, 07:10 AM	#1763
Poli FOFC Survivor Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Wentzville, MO	Thanks for the mercy killing, Sith. This eliminates any problem of getting online while I'm at home. I actually appreciate it. I'm heading home in about 5 minutes. Good luck, Jedi, may the Force be with you. __________________ Cheer for a walk on quarterback! Ardent leads the Vols in the dynasty forum. Last edited by Poli : 03-10-2006 at 07:11 AM. Reason: to add that i'm leaving very shortly

03-10-2006, 07:19 AM	#1765
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	His four straight votes for Qwikshot seemed non-Sith to me at the time. Again, I don't think they want to draw that kind of attention on themselves and when Qwik comes up as a Jedi that is going to loook bad for him. But at this stage in the game, I'm not looking at this quite as charitably. When I get to work this morning I'm going to try and put together a quick list of pros/cons on each of the remaining players. As far as the burger, I loved both the concept and the actual description of the dining experience. Great, amusing read. But a non-factor in the Jedi/Sith evaluation

03-10-2006, 08:15 AM	#1766
Grammaticus Pro Rookie Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Tennessee	VOTE HOOPS

03-10-2006, 08:49 AM	#1767
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	Gram, should I assume that is not an "influenced" vote, given the lack of reasons here? That all past arguments hold?

03-10-2006, 08:55 AM	#1768
Grammaticus Pro Rookie Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Tennessee	No influence, but I suspect you already know that.

03-10-2006, 09:13 AM	#1769
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	Remaining players, listed in order from Post #1: KWhit - he has been on my suspect list for quite awhile, not nearly as interactive in this game as last two when he was big villager asset Hoopsguy - Jedi, role revealed Gram - trying really, really hard to make this a me vs him showdown, late vote move on Day 1 doesn't strike me as +EV Sith play Taz - Jedi, role unknown. Vote moved away from him on Day 4 in what has been shown to be a Jedi/Jedi (Taz/Qwikshot) showdown Cartman - if Sith, he has played the confused Jedi part very well King - infrequent poster, missed key vote (AE vs Dubb) Penny - a guy that I've lost track of a couple of different times in this game. I appreciate the fact that he hasn't gone out of his way to hang me, but worry a little bit about that as well ... plenty of times where "wolves" will buddy up to a villager to earn favor later in game. SnDvls - had vote moved on Day 5 during Jedi/Jedi (Me/Stkelly) showdown, others with votes moved include AE (Jedi) and me. Fairly infrequent poster this game, but was more active yesterday. Tried to push me to clear/damn myself yesterday. Feels Jedi ... Sack - biggest remaining Star Wars geek? Another guy with late vote move on Day 1 that doesn't seem Sith-like. I don't think I've played much werewolf with Sack prior to this game. Does anyone have any impressions on whether he is playing his normal game here?

03-10-2006, 09:24 AM	#1770
cartman Death Herald Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Le stelle la notte sono grandi e luminose nel cuore profondo del Texas	I can honestly say that I am a confused Jedi. As others have posted, this has been an SOB of a game. And this is only the second time I've played WW, an the first time I've lived past the 2nd day. So a lot of the subtle nuances that others are picking up on from playing each other in lots of games are just flying right over my head. It seems kinda clear to me that we can't use voting records to deduce much, since everyone has overwhelmingly picked fellow Jedis to lynch. I don't see any instances of voluntary late votes moves that saved someone who wasn't found later to be a Jedi. So we are back to the Day 1 method it seems of playing the numbers game. But since there are so few of us left, the "taking a stab in the dark" approach has a lot more chances of success. __________________ Thinkin' of a master plan 'Cuz ain't nuthin' but sweat inside my hand So I dig into my pocket, all my money is spent So I dig deeper but still comin' up with lint

03-10-2006, 09:42 AM	#1771
cartman Death Herald Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Le stelle la notte sono grandi e luminose nel cuore profondo del Texas	Dola, as for the weekend, I'm for doing like we did last weekend, and having the vote due by Sunday night. __________________ Thinkin' of a master plan 'Cuz ain't nuthin' but sweat inside my hand So I dig into my pocket, all my money is spent So I dig deeper but still comin' up with lint

03-10-2006, 10:27 AM	#1773
pennywisesb College Benchwarmer Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Los Angeles, California	For some reason when I analyze the Gramm v. Hoops scenario I think we have another Jedi v. Jedi showdown. The sith have done an amazing job at allowing us to pursue these roads throughout the game and I just don't see anything positive coming out of this H v. G scenario. As most people have said, KWHit has been extrememly quiet this game, which is definately not his MO and when he has spoken up its been mostly to just agree/disagree with what others have said. I think King has pretty much played the same way but he's at least thrown his weight out there in offering various opinions on players. At this point I'm going to: Vote KWHit This is subject to change pending new evidence. __________________ Myspace Profile

03-10-2006, 10:28 AM	#1774
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	I'm OK with whatever the majority wants to do with this weekend. I'll have more availability over the weekend than I will next week, but will make due with whatever schedule is agreed upon. As Penny states, if the board is down for a good chunk of the weekend that might be a reason to hold off until Monday for the next round.

03-10-2006, 10:34 AM	#1775
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	Er, make do ... really would like to edit every once in awhile in these games to avoid looking like a dumbass.

03-10-2006, 10:44 AM	#1776
KWhit Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Conyers GA	Looks like I'm the early front-runner today. I can see why, I suppose, when you look at my past couple of games. I have been much less active in this game for 2 reasons - I'm busy as hell at work, and I haven't had clear opinions on any of the players. But, I am starting to feel better about Hoops and therefore Taz. Hoops' post about how he'd have to take a lot of unnecessary risks to do the things he has done if he were a Sith make sense to me and I agree. There was very little reward (but a considerable risk) for his actions of the past few days if he were a Sith. So I feel like Hoops is ok. He vouched for Taz, so I feel pretty good about him. I know I'm a Jedi. I feel like sndvls vote move was legit, so for now, I think he is a Jedi. Who does that leave? Gram Cartman Kingfc22 Pennywise SackAttack I feel pretty sure that 2 or 3 of these guys are Sith. By voting for one of them, the odds are in our favor. I feel like Gram is making a play that seems slightly un-sith-like at this point because he's putting himself on the line going after Hoops. I'm leaning toward Kingfc22 or SackAttack. I think I'll put a vote on one of them now, but am open to changing it if something interesting develops. Vote Kingfc22.

03-10-2006, 11:45 AM	#1777
SackAttack Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Green Bay, WI	Good morning, guys. Gettin' some breakfast to clear the fuzz from my noggin. Then I'll sit down and take a look and see what I can see about the situation we're in.

03-10-2006, 11:45 AM	#1778
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	KWhit is probably the person that I'm the most uneasy about at this stage. Of course, his other two votes are coming from people who are also closer to the bottom than the top of my trust list. VOTE KWHIT

03-10-2006, 11:47 AM	#1779
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	Votes as of Post #1778: KWhit - King (1748), Penny (1773), Hoops (1778) Gram - Taz (1761) Hoops - Gram (1766) King - KWhit (1776) No votes: Cartman, SnDvls, Sack

03-10-2006, 12:02 PM	#1780
cartman Death Herald Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Le stelle la notte sono grandi e luminose nel cuore profondo del Texas	The past couple of days I've gone with the pile-on crowd for my vote, and each time it's been wrong. There are three of us left to vote, and KWhit seems to be the popular choice right now. If there are no vote changes from the existing voters, all it will take is one more vote and he's done for. I'm going to throw another name out there for consideration. It's a gut feeling vote, and I really don't have anything concrete to base it on, other than little tidbits here and there I've read in this thread about him. VOTE SackAttack __________________ Thinkin' of a master plan 'Cuz ain't nuthin' but sweat inside my hand So I dig into my pocket, all my money is spent So I dig deeper but still comin' up with lint

03-10-2006, 12:06 PM	#1781
SackAttack Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Green Bay, WI	I'm having trouble getting past the isolation of hoopsguy here. If he's Sith, removing the other choice from the Group of Three to leave him standing alone makes no sense - particularly since that member already said they would be AFK for much of the weekend due to travel. In other words, he might have been able to pin blame on ardent with ardent not around to defend himself. So if hoopsguy is Sith, he voluntarily denuded himself of cover that might have been useful - and as I say, we've got to be close to the endgame. It isn't necessarily today, but the closer they are, the fewer risks they have to take, and self-isolation is a big risk. I think hoopsguy is Jedi, as there's no reason for the Sith to take that risk at this point (we haven't given them any reason to fear). I said earlier that I think this is an isolation ploy by the Sith, and I'm coming back to that, the more I think around this thing. vote Grammaticus Vote subject to change if necessary, either because we get new info, or if everybody feels it's needed to stave off the effects of a compelled vote.

03-10-2006, 12:29 PM	#1782
Grammaticus Pro Rookie Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Tennessee	I'm putting all my cards on the table.

03-10-2006, 12:29 PM	#1783
Grammaticus Pro Rookie Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Tennessee	I’m thinking this is probably the end game for the Sith. If they win today the game is more than likely over. If not, we may have more time. Also, I won’t be around after 5pm. So, I would like to get whatever I can out there prior. I’m out at 5pm until Saturday AM. Whatever you do with the play schedule is okay with me. I am a Jedi that believes our lightsaber is our life. I have trained with every minute of my spare time to better my fighting skills. I wield the Azure blue blade and have been given the opportunity to guard one Jedi each night. Following is the schedule I took and a brief reason why. Night 1 Ardent (I believed he was the seer and/or just good Jedi, strong player) Night 2 Desnudo (going for strong player that was low profile at time)jackpot Night 3 Grammaticus (felt I was being outspoken and maybe a target) Night 4 SnDvls (going for low key, strong player again, worked w/Desnudo) Night 5 Grammaticus (no read on anyone, going after hoops, protected self) Night 6 Cartman (low key, Jedi would get no info if he was killed) Night 7 Hoops (wanted to test and see if he was Sith, what would happen?) I asked Master Saldana what would happen if I guarded a Sith thinking he was a Jedi. I was told that I would not see anything directly, but It would have an understood effect in the battle scene. When the night post said, “The disturbance through the force is different tonight. There is more evil, more hatred, more POWER than ever before.” I take this to be the effect that is different. The fact Sack indicated he thought it was a different Jedi, leads to my confidence here. Basically, that I am not seeing something I want to see, but someone else noticed a difference too. That is why I still think Hoops is a Sith. In addition to everything else I said before. Again I’m out at 5pm EST, so this should give me some time to respond to anyone.

03-10-2006, 12:33 PM	#1784
Grammaticus Pro Rookie Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Tennessee	dola, Here is my overview on remaining players based on how I feel they are from good to bad. Grammaticus - I know he is good SackAttack – was on my good list, still feel he is good Cartman – I think good – just don’t see a first timer as Sith and Play style confirms SnDvls – Still not sure, probably more good than bad, nothing happened when I protected him Pennywisesb – still no read Kwhit – tossed out as option by Hoops – No feel on him Kingfc22 – still no read, missed vote, should be worried about him TazFTW – Uneasy, tied to Hoops and gunning for me. Sith vote changed to protect him, says he is strong willed, no one else confirmed this as a role. Sounds fishy. Hoopsguy – bad, I’m sure of this. Having not tested the big three until the last minute will probably cause the game to go to the Sith. I trusted AE from the start and that is evident in my post history. I was suspicious of Path/BK, but Hoops was my number one suspect from the early days of the game. Even Hoops says it should be Him or Taz to try and build a circle of trust ever so late in the game…. My guess on Sith would be 1 – Hoops 2 – Taz 3 – King 4 – Penny/Kwhit

03-10-2006, 12:35 PM	#1786
SackAttack Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Green Bay, WI	unvote Grammaticus We haven't seen a death scene involving an azure lightsaber, so for the moment I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt. Do you realize, I keep forgetting penny is in this game? Him and KWhit both.

03-10-2006, 12:41 PM	#1787
pennywisesb College Benchwarmer Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Los Angeles, California	Gramm, don't you think that would be an unfair advantage that Saldana gave you? You are the bodyguard, not the seer, and by using his explanation the way you think he used it, he'd essentially be telling you that Hoops was a sith. His gameplay doesn't really correspond to that of a sith's as far as I can tell, and if you are wrong with thinking he's sith and we vote off another jedi, we are going to be in some serious sh*t. Now, if the group decides to go after hoops I guess I'd be game, but I'm just having a hard time understanding his play if he is in fact, a sith. Hoops is a stellar player though, so I can see him playing this way to throw us off his trail possibly... __________________ Myspace Profile

03-10-2006, 12:53 PM	#1789
Grammaticus Pro Rookie Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Tennessee	I don’t know Penny, is it an unfair advantage? If I am essentially watching the door of the Jedi, how can he go out and make a kill without me seeing. What do we have to offset mind control? Apparently the Sith can still leave his room or they change killer w/o me knowing, not sure. It started out by me asking if I would see the Sith leave his room if he went out for a kill and the answer was basically that I would not, but that was not basically the end of it. So I asked again if I would know that the killer was different and I got the answer that I rephrased in my post. The question is, do you agree that the fight scene post was different? Was there an understood difference? I would have thought it would indicate there is a different Sith using a single blade or something more obvious. Maybe it was a combined witness effect, not sure. But I did see that in a past game. I’m basically trying for anything I can get to save us Jedi.

03-10-2006, 01:25 PM	#1792
SnDvls Pro Starter Join Date: Jul 2001	I had two guys at the top of my list going into today. One seems to clear me (kwhit) and the other suspects me (king). The one that is clearing me, could be a ploy to get my trust, has his vote on my other canidate, and vise versa. I think this could be a way to try and gain my trust and vote. I think the only reason king suspects me is my past votes for him. It's gut instince time again. vote Kwhit

03-10-2006, 01:28 PM	#1794
SnDvls Pro Starter Join Date: Jul 2001	dola - I'd prefer we do a long day over the weekend

03-10-2006, 01:48 PM	#1800
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	So you are suggesting that both Sith have identical twin lightsabers?