Werewolf XXV: A long time ago...game over, Sith win,full role listing at 2030

[Desnudo]

I'm glad this ended tonight. It was too frustrating to watch otherwise. In case people are curious, look how close we were:

Day 1: Cartman - Evil, not Sith
Day 2: Dubb - Evil, not Sith
Day 3: Barkeep/Path - Jedi
Day 4: Taz - Jedi (originally wanted to view Hoops here)
Day 5: AE - Jedi
Day 6: Hoops - Sith (dead)

I was planning on revealing regardless of whether or not Hoops was a Sith. I would have revealed sooner, but as you can see, two of my reveals were evil, so the circle of trust would have been small.

I had no idea about Sundvls, but correctly guessed that Sack was another Sith. Well played guys. Thanks for the guard Gram.

[Desnudo]

Also, I let Cartman alone because I thought he knew who the Sith were and wouldn't vote for them. I figured any vote he placed was probably on a Jedi, helping to clear people. I guess I got that one totally wrong.

[saldana]

and in case anyone has been keeping score, in games run by me, 37 villagers have been killed since the last wolf died (dubb was a turncoat, eaglesfan a spy in HP, so they were not technically wolves)

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Desnudo

I'm glad this ended tonight. It was too frustrating to watch otherwise. In case people are curious, look how close we were:

Day 1: Cartman - Evil, not Sith
Day 2: Dubb - Evil, not Sith
Day 3: Barkeep/Path - Jedi
Day 4: Taz - Jedi (originally wanted to view Hoops here)
Day 5: AE - Jedi
Day 6: Hoops - Sith (dead)

I was planning on revealing regardless of whether or not Hoops was a Sith. I would have revealed sooner, but as you can see, two of my reveals were evil, so the circle of trust would have been small.

I had no idea about Sundvls, but correctly guessed that Sack was another Sith. Well played guys. Thanks for the guard Gram.

Ahh looks like you were on the right path, ashame you died when you did. THat would have made the circle of trust pretty tight.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by Desnudo

Also, I let Cartman alone because I thought he knew who the Sith were and wouldn't vote for them. I figured any vote he placed was probably on a Jedi, helping to clear people. I guess I got that one totally wrong.

I was about to ask that if you knew I was evil on day 1, how come I didn't pop up on anyone's radar until the last day.

[Desnudo]

Sndvls I really had no clue about.

[SnDvls]

well I'm out for the night.

thanks again Saldana great game. one of the most fun I've played

[hoopsguy]

I was pretty sure that Lathum or Schmidty were the seer by the end of Day 4, had to figure that I would have been scanned by then.

I also figured that Desnudo was the seer on Day 2 when he argued my percentages of risk with me on Qwikshot/Lathum. That is why we went after him that night, but Gram must have picked up on the same thing.

But, as noted above, no longer believed that Des was the seer by Day 5 at the absolute latest. Up to that point, I was still worried about him as the seer and still worried about that role coming back to bite us.

[cartman]

saldana,

When I run for President in 2012 or 2016, I want you to be my Karl Rove...

[hoopsguy]

Alan, who had a better handle on the game between you and Vince?

BTW, we still have never been on the same team

[saldana]

Originally Posted by cartman

saldana,

When I run for President in 2012 or 2016, I want you to be my Karl Rove...

lol, thanks

[saldana]

dola, are we going to campaign on the "KK burger as the new all american food" platform?

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by cartman

I was about to ask that if you knew I was evil on day 1, how come I didn't pop up on anyone's radar until the last day.

It was pretty funny actually, because a few times you followed me in voting on the same person, which was incredibly frustrating. I really couldn't say anything since I knew that if I was on you out of the blue and you turned out evil that it would put a huge target on me and I still didn't know who the real Sith were.

I'm kicking myself for not voting onto Hoops now on day 5. I feel like we got played the same way that Dubb played us a few games back when he was just logical and just smooth enough to avoid getting lynched.

[Alan T]

Things I'm curious about now was what Qwik's thoughts were to day 1. I think if I had lived past day1, that would have thrown me off for a good day or two where I honestly felt he was bad.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by saldana

dola, are we going to campaign on the "KK burger as the new all american food" platform?

Yeah, but we might alienate Lathum on the "Death to Miller Light drinkers" plank of the platform!

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Alan, who had a better handle on the game between you and Vince?

BTW, we still have never been on the same team

Let me go and look at my mails to compare. I think both of us really enjoyed watching this game. It was a fun one with all the twists.

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

I was pretty sure that Lathum or Schmidty were the seer by the end of Day 4, had to figure that I would have been scanned by then.

I also figured that Desnudo was the seer on Day 2 when he argued my percentages of risk with me on Qwikshot/Lathum. That is why we went after him that night, but Gram must have picked up on the same thing.

But, as noted above, no longer believed that Des was the seer by Day 5 at the absolute latest. Up to that point, I was still worried about him as the seer and still worried about that role coming back to bite us.

I think my new stategy will be to no longer discuss anything with hoops at anytime.

[saldana]

alan, i forgot about a special part i was going to give you...if you died early (which you obviously did), i was going to leave you in a coma until day 4, just so you could say you lived til day 4, and then just let you die. but i forgot when i posted the night 1 actions

[hoopsguy]

I feel like we got played the same way that Dubb played us a few games back when he was just logical and just smooth enough to avoid getting lynched.

I talked with Sack about comparisons to the Dubb game.

On the one hand, he never had the same level of scrutiny on him. Credit to him for eluding the spotlight in that game, as that is what you obviously want to do as a wolf if not be outright trusted.

On the other hand, I had to do this with people saying that I was playing like Dubb. Which I think added a little more difficulty than when he did it.

I had a lot of respect for the game he played that time and for how he plays pretty much every WW game, so any comparisons in that respect are flattering.

[Desnudo]

So if you didn't think I was the seer at that point, why choose me on night 6?

[hoopsguy]

i was going to leave you in a coma until day 4, just so you could say you lived til day 4, and then just let you die.

ROFLMAO.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Alan, who had a better handle on the game between you and Vince?

BTW, we still have never been on the same team

I think after the first two days, my notes were I feel pretty good that there is at least one sith in: Qwikshot, Sack and AE. He also felt that Qwikshot needed to die to look into what in the world happened on day 1.

Vince also felt that either Barkeep or Hoops had to be a sith at that point.

A few days later on the 8th, I sent him this message:

"I still think that Sackattack and Ardent are siths. They just dont seem to be making much sense, and are doing all kinds of fishy things that people are believing for some reason.

I still think Grammaticus could be a third sith, but starting to wonder about Desnudo and hoops some... Those two seem to be following along the AE & Sack bandwagon a little too convienantly in discussion if not votes. I wish i didnt die night one!"

He wasn't as sure about Sack, but he felt that either Hoops or AE were a sith and felt it fishy that no one had pressed them much.


Later that day Vince felt very strongly that Desnudo was a sith, but I wasnt as sure on him. I knew something was up with him and hoops though as they were playing very odd games to me.

By that point i felt that AE and Sack were the two running things with possibly Gramms help, but my big two targets would have been AE and Sack. I felt they were molding way too much of the votes.

Thats I guess where our discussions kinda died and we just watched how things played out.

Was very interesting to watch.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by saldana

alan, i forgot about a special part i was going to give you...if you died early (which you obviously did), i was going to leave you in a coma until day 4, just so you could say you lived til day 4, and then just let you die. but i forgot when i posted the night 1 actions

lol

[hoopsguy]

You were still playing a good game and we wanted to go back and kill you at some point.

There was some logic behind all of our night decisions, but we tried not to go with the most A-B-C decisions each evening to elude the bodyguard who had already thwarted us once.

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

I talked with Sack about comparisons to the Dubb game.

On the one hand, he never had the same level of scrutiny on him. Credit to him for eluding the spotlight in that game, as that is what you obviously want to do as a wolf if not be outright trusted.

On the other hand, I had to do this with people saying that I was playing like Dubb. Which I think added a little more difficulty than when he did it.

I had a lot of respect for the game he played that time and for how he plays pretty much every WW game, so any comparisons in that respect are flattering.

That exact situation was playing through my mind when I was trying to figure out whether to vote for you or Stkelly on day 5 (although it got cancelled in the end). The results from that game actually led me to scan AE before you as well, since he was a big part of how everything played out. Eventually I concluded that AE would probably get killed in the night action so I could scan you safely

[saldana]

does no one get Kwhit's death?

[kingfc22]

Ugh! How many times did I say Hoops could be a Sith since he was still alive this late in the game. Nobody else wanted to push this route especially AE. So I instead just followed along like a dog on a leash.

Oh well, good job guys.

[TazFTW]

Originally Posted by saldana

does no one get Kwhit's death?

Holy Grail.

[saldana]

Originally Posted by TazFTW

Holy Grail.

thanks, i thought it would be pretty funny, but no one else seems to think so

[hoopsguy]

Other random notes that I had wanted to comment on in the postgame ....

I had worked out a couple of fake reveals for the game earlier, but when Jeeber died his death description dovetailed nicely with one that I had thought of before in terms of being visited by some spectral Jedi. It had a nice Star Wars feel to it and I hoped that wouldn't be a role that Saldana would put into the game so I wouldn't conflict with anyone. I was very glad later that day for planting the "evidence", although I wasn't happy with having to use it during the extension since I had already moved SnDvls' vote prior to the deadline to make the margin 6-5.

From there, coming up with the idea that Jeeber gave me the identity of a player wasn't too hard. But if it was going to clear a player, that wouldn't necessarily buy me another day - I had been in a tie the day before and didn't want to fake-finger a Sith and trade 1:1 when I felt like I had a chance to win the game if I lived for two days. So that is when I faked the "forced vote" on myself, since I was the only person who really knew the rules on how it worked. High risk, high reward, but I knew that I could present an argument of self-imposed weakness and I hoped that would resonate with people.

I would have said that I viewed Barkeep as a Sith, but he was lynched that day. So I had to come up with an alternate for my story. Taz seemed to work, as he had indicated his role of mentally strong Jedi. I positioned it that I didn't get roles, just "Jedi" or "Sith" but if I had been pressed I might have said that I knew he was mentally strong but was trying to protect our Jedi roles by not mentioning it earlier.

[Barkeep49]

Desnudo I think you should have gone public after you had 2 alive Jedi as that could have allowed circles of trust to be formed. But I admire the way you got the info out there without doing a reveal. I think I had you pegged when I pulled out.

Congrats to the Sith on an extremely well played game.

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by kingfc22

Ugh! How many times did I say Hoops could be a Sith since he was still alive this late in the game. Nobody else wanted to push this route especially AE. So I instead just followed along like a dog on a leash.

Oh well, good job guys.

Gram was on him constantly. Unfortunately no one, including myself, listened to him.

[TazFTW]

Originally Posted by saldana

thanks, i thought it would be pretty funny, but no one else seems to think so

Truthfully, I didn't read it until you mentioned it. I went straight to the end result.

[Barkeep49]

Yeah I think it's funny that so much time was spent on the early game with the decision that 1 of the AE/Hoops/BK trio had to be evil and sure enough 1 was and yet when the other two died nothing happened to the living third .

[hoopsguy]

I hope Sack enjoys reading this recap. I called Eagles teflon on Day 1 of this game, but Sack really was. So little suspicion on him until today.

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Desnudo I think you should have gone public after you had 2 alive Jedi as that could have allowed circles of trust to be formed. But I admire the way you got the info out there without doing a reveal. I think I had you pegged when I pulled out.

Congrats to the Sith on an extremely well played game.

Point taken, and I obviously waited one day too long. I really debated with myself over revealing after night 5. I'm a big fan of gathering as much information as possible before saying anything in a role like that. I'm not the best at picking up on small discrepancies in behaviour, so I prefer to know as much as possible. I also had to consider as a factor that you or AE could be a hidden Sith.

I felt I was low enough on the radar, and had applied enough misdirection, to avoid getting killed. I actually had some jedi thinking I was bad, so I figured that was a good sign. Also factoring in is that I enjoy playing these games and revealing early means you are done.

[Alan T]

So what was the reasoning behind killing Eagles on night 1? Im guessing you had no idea you would take me out with him.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

I hope Sack enjoys reading this recap. I called Eagles teflon on Day 1 of this game, but Sack really was. So little suspicion on him until today.

I wonder what he was thinking when I opened the voting up on him today!

[hoopsguy]

Alan, pretty random selection. There wasn't a thought of keeping AE and Barkeep alive at that point in the game or anything along those lines.

[Blade6119]

Good Game Sith, nice try jedi...a couple times you got really close...if desnudo had revealed before he died it prob. would have turned the game...shame, but them the breaks

[cartman]

You never once suspected that I was in cahoots with Wall-Mart. It was I who cut the tires on the bus, and killed all of the Jedi!

[Barkeep49]

After thinking it over I think that all of us villagers sucked this game. However, with the Sith not knowing who each other was I think that even if we had nabbed Hoops that it would have told us little as the sith could not coordinate their plans and thus likely woudl be on different pages.

[Barkeep49]

Saldana what was the tie breaker? Did I miss it?

[dubb93]

Looking back on things I should have let Barkeep and Hoops duke it out. As I told Hoops after my death, my best guess at the time of my death was that Ardent was the apprentice. My goal as a sith was to get the apprentice lynched, and then kill the master and assume his role. I obviously made a mistake in thinking Ardent was playing the apprentice.

[Desnudo]

You pm'd hoops during the game or after? I don't think it's right that you'd send him your thoughts after you were lynched. I apologize if I'm misunderstanding what you wrote.

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by Desnudo

You pm'd hoops during the game or after? I don't think it's right that you'd send him your thoughts after you were lynched. I apologize if I'm misunderstanding what you wrote.

It isn't like we discussed game strategy. It was a laugh between the two of us. At that point we both knew Ardent was innocent, and we both knew he was the apprentice.

We also knew that the apprentice could kill the master, so it isn't like I introduced new information to Hoops by telling him I made a mistake and I should have let Barkeep have a go at him.

[dubb93]

DOLA:

Actually re-reading the exchange between the two of us, Hoops was unsure if Ardent was a sith or not and I never commented on it. That was the only time anyone's name beside either of us, or Barkeep(me saying I should have let him have a go @ Hoops) was brought up. Like I said, it was a laugh between the two of us, with me saying I was trying to kill him, and then Sack, but failed miserably.

[SackAttack]

Holy crap.

saldana, I was dying laughing at KWhit's death.

I can't believe me and hoops pulled this off, but I have to give most of the credit to hoops. I just tried to play the game as if I were a villager (albeit with inside info), and by allying myself with people I felt were playing strong villager games and voting for dubb, I was hoping that if the Jedi kept striking out, it would keep me clear, because it's not like my voting record was any worse than anybody else's.

As far as bandwagons following my votes, I really don't get that, because I didn't push for ANYBODY to get lynched until KWhit. I defended my own votes, but until we hit endgame, I didn't get aggressive. I would vote and then see just a flood of votes head in that direction to give me cover.

It was as if, y'know, I actually WAS a Dark Lord of the Sith.

dubb, I'll be straight with you - the only way you were ever going to be an apprentice was if hoops, cartman and SnDvls all got lynched, which means as Dark Lord you were going to be pretty screwed anyway.

I don't think I could have made a better choice for an apprentice than I did, and I'm ecstatic that we both stayed alive 'til the end.

My gameplan today was to get KWhit lynched, but I had a plan B as far as attracting attention away from hoops if the heat stayed on him.

When Gramm revealed as bodyguard, I unvoted him to try to keep my own credibility and maybe sway people towards KWhit, but I knew that, with the info of who the bodyguard was, the Sith had the game won if I got lynched.

I was all set to come back, too, and quote my "Bre'r Fox, please don't th'ow me in the briar patch" comment from earlier in the game, just to see if anybody felt stupid for missing the reference, but the late vote changes to KWhit obviated that need.

Man, this feels great after dying on day 2 as the seer in the last game I played.

[path12]

Originally Posted by saldana

thanks, i thought it would be pretty funny, but no one else seems to think so

I was laughing when I read it. Good death.

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by dubb93

DOLA:

Actually re-reading the exchange between the two of us, Hoops was unsure if Ardent was a sith or not and I never commented on it. That was the only time anyone's name beside either of us, or Barkeep(me saying I should have let him have a go @ Hoops) was brought up. Like I said, it was a laugh between the two of us, with me saying I was trying to kill him, and then Sack, but failed miserably.

No offense, but I don't think it's right to pm between players if one is still alive, whatever the reason. Obviously you weren't trying to cheat or anything, but it just doesn't seem right. I don't think it influenced the outcome of the game, but how do you know what he knows and vice-versa?

I thought about PM'ing hoops a "I hope you get nailed" message, but refrained, because it didn't seem right.