NCAAB: Joe Crawford leaves Kentucky

DeToxRox · 01-11-2005, 04:49 PM

Just saw on Detroit news that Joe Crawford, one of the nations top recruits last year, has left UK and is contemplating coming home to Michigan to play for the Wolverines.

I'll get the story when I find it, but they did show Tubby Smith answering questions about it at a press conference, so it's legit.

Joe · 01-11-2005, 04:57 PM

i thought this was about Joe Crawford the referee

Ryno · 01-11-2005, 05:07 PM

That's interesting, considering he originally committed to Michigan then backed out

hxxp://www.freep.com/sports/umich/metro1_20030201.htm

DeToxRox · 01-11-2005, 05:10 PM

Exactly. That is why I am shocked he even mentioned Michigan but you just never know with these kids.

TargetPractice6 · 01-11-2005, 05:16 PM

Being a UK fan I'm been following this for a couple days now. Really a bad move for the guy. UK is going to hold him to his letter of intent, and thus he will be penalized a year of eligibility for not completing a full year for us. Therefore he will be a junior with 1.5 years of eligibility remaining when he is allowed to play for his new team at this time next season.

Personally, I don't want a guy that is going to quit on his team midway through the season because of much time he got against Kansas. He's 6th on the team in playing time, but from what I've heard he and his dad were livid about only getting 3 minutes against KU. I hope he doesn't let the door hit himself on the way out.

TargetPractice6 · 01-11-2005, 05:17 PM

Dola... story

http://kentucky.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=377126

Ryno · 01-11-2005, 05:18 PM

There's a thread with 70+ posts about him over at the IlliniBoard if you're at all interested in an Illini perspective.

hxxp://mb11.scout.com/fillinoisinsiderfrm1.showMessageRange?topicID=33782.topic&start=1&stop=20

TargetPractice6 · 01-11-2005, 05:29 PM

Yeah, that's a pretty good objective thread. The Tubby Smith bashers that had been gone for a few years are back on the Kentucky board now. If we lose to Vandy tomorrow all hell is going to break lose on our board... Doubt I'll be reading it for a while.

Though if he transfers he WILL be a junior with 1.5 years left by the time he can play. Only a few people in that thread were getting that.

kingnebwsu · 01-12-2005, 01:49 AM

There's been small talk of it on my Wright State board. They're dreaming of getting him, but I think it's unrealistic. Ya never know though

(Dreaming is FUN!)

Samdari · 01-12-2005, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TargetPractice6

Being a UK fan I'm been following this for a couple days now. Really a bad move for the guy. UK is going to hold him to his letter of intent, and thus he will be penalized a year of eligibility for not completing a full year for us. Therefore he will be a junior with 1.5 years of eligibility remaining when he is allowed to play for his new team at this time next season.

This is wrong on so many fronts. Kentucky announced that they had released him from his letter of intent, which means he has to sit out a year, and loses no eligibility. If they had not released him, he would have had to wait two years and then lost one of eligibility (only because of the four in five rule). There is no case where a player only waits a year upon transfer but loses eligibility.

Besides, there is no way UK would ever fail to release someone who wanted to leave, one because Tubby is so classy, its hard to force a kid to stay who is miserable, and two, becuase it is recruiting scuicide - failing to release even one kid is used against them from then on. With rare exceptions, people who want to transfer are released.

CHEMICAL SOLDIER · 01-12-2005, 10:40 AM

Why did he/is he leaving KU?

JeeberD · 01-12-2005, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingnebwsu

There's been small talk of it on my Wright State board. They're dreaming of getting him, but I think it's unrealistic. Ya never know though

(Dreaming is FUN!)

There's been mention of him on the UTEP board as well since we have another Detroit kid (Vernon Carr) on the roster.

I really, really doubt we get him, though...

TargetPractice6 · 01-12-2005, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samdari

This is wrong on so many fronts. Kentucky announced that they had released him from his letter of intent, which means he has to sit out a year, and loses no eligibility. If they had not released him, he would have had to wait two years and then lost one of eligibility (only because of the four in five rule). There is no case where a player only waits a year upon transfer but loses eligibility.

Besides, there is no way UK would ever fail to release someone who wanted to leave, one because Tubby is so classy, its hard to force a kid to stay who is miserable, and two, becuase it is recruiting scuicide - failing to release even one kid is used against them from then on. With rare exceptions, people who want to transfer are released.

Did you even bother to read the article I linked before saying I'm wrong? They granted hima release fron the University, but they are going to hold him to his NLI and Crawford will be penalized eligibility.

Quote:

The UK release applies to Crawford's scholarship and allows him to pursue discussions with any other program he chooses. However, the school is not inclined to waive the player's national letter-of-intent at this time, according to UK media relations director Scott Stricklin.

"It's an unusual situation," Stricklin said. "The fear is, let's not step into something.

"If we would let (Crawford) out, it would be precedent-setting. No kid has asked out mid-season since this new rule was in place. And once you do it once, the precedent would be set to do it henceforth. The concern of the school is that… for a program of this magnitude, it would allow guys to come and try out and just leave if they didn't like it."
...
There is an appeals process in place with the NLI board. Four athletes – none of them basketball players – have left their respective schools as mid-term freshmen. Only one asked for an appeal, according to what NLI officials told UK, and it was denied.

If Crawford leaves without the waiver, he will face a significant loss of his college eligibility. He'll have two and a half years available to complete one and a half years of eligibility. The penalty would simply mean he'll be a junior when he resumes his college career, rather than a sophomore.

Had he completed this season at UK, he would have to sit out the mandatory one year for transfers, but have a full three years eligibility remaining.

Also you said, "There is no case where a player only waits a year upon transfer but loses eligibility."

http://www1.ncaa.org/membership/memb...ncial_aid.html

"If the student-athlete does not enroll at that institution for a full academic year, he/she may be subject to specific penalties, including loss of a season of eligibility and a mandatory residence requirement."

http://www.national-letter.org/faq/#transferring

"What happens if I change my mind and do not want to attend the institution with which I sign and want to attend another National Letter of Intent institution?

If you do not attend the institution with which you signed, or if you do not fulfill the terms of the National Letter of Intent, the basic penalty is that you lose one year of eligibility and must serve one year in residence at your next National Letter of Intent institution. "

So evidentally there is a case where a player only waits one year and loses a year of eligibility.

TargetPractice6 · 01-12-2005, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CHEMICAL SOLDIER

Why did he/is he leaving KU?

He played for Kentucky, not Kansas.

He's leaving because he doesn't feel he was getting enough playing time. He was 6th on the team in minutes, but never really did all that much to warrant more playing time. He has the 2nd worst shooting percentage on the team of players who have taken more than 40 shots (I think) and has the worst 3 pointer percentage on the team.

CHEMICAL SOLDIER · 01-12-2005, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TargetPractice6

He played for Kentucky, not Kansas.

He's leaving because he doesn't feel he was getting enough playing time. He was 6th on the team in minutes, but never really did all that much to warrant more playing time. He has the 2nd worst shooting percentage on the team of players who have taken more than 40 shots (I think) and has the worst 3 pointer percentage on the team.

If I were him I would have waited till season's end. Who knows what could happen between now and then. Plus passing up a chance to go deep into the tournament.....ughhhh.

TargetPractice6 · 01-12-2005, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CHEMICAL SOLDIER

If I were him I would have waited till season's end. Who knows what could happen between now and then. Plus passing up a chance to go deep into the tournament.....ughhhh.

It doesn't make sense to me either that he had to leave right now considering the penalties. I mean is being dissatisfied with your playing time worse than not playing at all? Guess he figures he is so good that he won't need much time at his new team before making the jump to the league.

Samdari · 01-12-2005, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TargetPractice6

Did you even bother to read the article I linked before saying I'm wrong? They granted hima release fron the University, but they are going to hold him to his NLI and Crawford will be penalized eligibility.

Also you said, "There is no case where a player only waits a year upon transfer but loses eligibility."

http://www1.ncaa.org/membership/memb...ncial_aid.html

"If the student-athlete does not enroll at that institution for a full academic year, he/she may be subject to specific penalties, including loss of a season of eligibility and a mandatory residence requirement."

http://www.national-letter.org/faq/#transferring

"What happens if I change my mind and do not want to attend the institution with which I sign and want to attend another National Letter of Intent institution?

If you do not attend the institution with which you signed, or if you do not fulfill the terms of the National Letter of Intent, the basic penalty is that you lose one year of eligibility and must serve one year in residence at your next National Letter of Intent institution. "

So evidentally there is a case where a player only waits one year and loses a year of eligibility.

The article is wrong. The only "release" an institution can give is from the NLI, because that is the only thing that gives him an obligation to the institution. He can leave the university without their permission or release. Saying they are releasing him means they are releasing him from the obligation of his NLI.

TargetPractice6 · 01-12-2005, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samdari

The article is wrong. The only "release" an institution can give is from the NLI, because that is the only thing that gives him an obligation to the institution. He can leave the university without their permission or release. Saying they are releasing him means they are releasing him from the obligation of his NLI.

No, that is completely wrong. The release allows schools to contact Crawford, it doesn't get him out of his NLI agreement.

From the NCAA transfer guide:

Written Permission to Contact/Recruit
Student-Athlete
If you are currently enrolled full-time at a four-year college, a college coach (or
athletics staff member) from another four-year college may not make contact with
you or your parents, directly or indirectly, without first obtaining the written permission
of your institution’s athletics director (or an athletics administrator designated
by the athletics director) to do so, regardless of who makes the initial contact.
If permission is not granted, the second institution shall not encourage you
to transfer, and in Divisions I and II, shall not provide financial assistance to you
until you have attended the second institution for one academic year. If permission
is granted to contact you, all applicable NCAA recruiting rules apply. Please
note that if you are transferring from a non-NCAA or non-NAIA school to a
Division I school, you do not need written permission for contact. ADivision III
student may issue his or her own release (“self-release”) and allow another
Division III school to contact him or her about transferring.

Router Help · 01-12-2005, 12:48 PM

I've heard this story too, but I've heard that Crawford wants to play for State and not the Wolverines.

Samdari · 01-12-2005, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TargetPractice6

No, that is completely wrong. The release allows schools to contact Crawford, it doesn't get him out of his NLI agreement.

From the NCAA transfer guide:

Written Permission to Contact/Recruit
Student-Athlete
If you are currently enrolled full-time at a four-year college, a college coach (or
athletics staff member) from another four-year college may not make contact with
you or your parents, directly or indirectly, without first obtaining the written permission
of your institution’s athletics director (or an athletics administrator designated
by the athletics director) to do so, regardless of who makes the initial contact.
If permission is not granted, the second institution shall not encourage you
to transfer, and in Divisions I and II, shall not provide financial assistance to you
until you have attended the second institution for one academic year. If permission
is granted to contact you, all applicable NCAA recruiting rules apply. Please
note that if you are transferring from a non-NCAA or non-NAIA school to a
Division I school, you do not need written permission for contact. ADivision III
student may issue his or her own release (“self-release”) and allow another
Division III school to contact him or her about transferring.

Believe what you want, but the release IS from the NLI, Crawford will be playing after the fall semester next year, and will not lose eligibility because Kentucky is releasing him from his NLI.

Please note that in the completely unrelated crap you quote above, that such written permission is not called a release. The ONLY release a school can/needs to give is release from the NLI.

TargetPractice6 · 01-12-2005, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samdari

Believe what you want, but the release IS from the NLI, Crawford will be playing after the fall semester next year, and will not lose eligibility because Kentucky is releasing him from his NLI.

Please note that in the completely unrelated crap you quote above, that such written permission is not called a release. The ONLY release a school can/needs to give is release from the NLI.

So where have you heard they were releasing him from his NLI? You don't seem to have ANYTHING to back up anything you say. The article spells it out for you, but you refuse to believe it. Would your prefer one from the Louisville Courier-Journal?

http://www.courier-journal.com/cjspo...2new-7910.html

"Freshman guard Joe Crawford, who left the University of Kentucky basketball team Monday, has been given permission to talk with other schools about transferring, but he risks the possibility of losing a year of eligibility if he leaves UK now. "

"UK has the option of waiving that penalty, which would allow Crawford to retain his full eligibility, but athletic spokesman Scott Stricklin said yesterday that school officials are leaning the other way.
"We're inclined to hold him to his commitment (to UK), but no decision has been reached on that," Stricklin said. "

Now, what do you have that says otherwise since you seem to know it all despite everything I've given you to the contrary.

sterlingice · 01-12-2005, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TargetPractice6

Yeah, that's a pretty good objective thread. The Tubby Smith bashers that had been gone for a few years are back on the Kentucky board now. If we lose to Vandy tomorrow all hell is going to break lose on our board... Doubt I'll be reading it for a while.

Though if he transfers he WILL be a junior with 1.5 years left by the time he can play. Only a few people in that thread were getting that.

For some people, enough is never enough is it? 10-2 and after a loss to the #2 team in the country (granted, it was in Rupp) is "the sky is falling". Not that we don't have those same types here who would go torches and pitchforks when Roy Williams only had a 20-10 season

Quote:

Originally Posted by TargetPractice6

Quote:

Originally Posted by CHEMICAL SOLDIER

Why did he/is he leaving KU?

He played for Kentucky, not Kansas.

I figured TP would clear this up

Never mind that University of Kansas becomes KU while University of Kentucky is UK but whatever

SI

TargetPractice6 · 01-12-2005, 04:20 PM

I guess Kansas has just always known their role.

sterlingice · 01-12-2005, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TargetPractice6

I guess Kansas has just always known their role.

Corn farmers who beat inbred hicks in basketball on their home court?

SI

TargetPractice6 · 01-12-2005, 05:05 PM

You mean you finally beat us in Lexington for the first time in the 55 years we've been playing each other? And you even managed to improve your record against Kentucky to 19-4! You corn farmers should enjoy it since it may be another 15 years before you beat us again.

sterlingice · 01-12-2005, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TargetPractice6

You mean you finally beat us in Lexington for the first time in the 55 years we've been playing each other? And you even managed to improve your record against Kentucky to 19-4! You corn farmers should enjoy it since it may be another 15 years before you beat us again.

Not that I should correct you, but they should teach you bluegrass hicks that winning doesn't move your record from 3-19 to 19-4 but to 4-19

SI

TargetPractice6 · 01-12-2005, 05:17 PM

I just did that so you would be forced to correct your own losing record.

sterlingice · 01-12-2005, 05:17 PM

Sure...

SI

TargetPractice6 · 01-12-2005, 05:19 PM

At least you are one of those Kansas fans who tries to bring up that game when they blew us out while we were on probation. It's just sad when they have to resort to that.

JeeberD · 01-12-2005, 05:29 PM

Both of y'all need to quit it with the yapping. UTEP owns both of your schools...

TargetPractice6 · 01-12-2005, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeeberD

Both of y'all need to quit it with the yapping. UTEP owns both of your schools...

77-17.

JeeberD · 01-12-2005, 05:33 PM

This is a basketball thread, isn't it? Don't be bringing up stuff that happened on the girdiron under the *cough* tutelage of Gary Nord...

TargetPractice6 · 01-12-2005, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeeberD

This is a basketball thread, isn't it? Don't be bringing up stuff that happened on the girdiron under the *cough* tutelage of Gary Nord...

That's the last time I can remember us playing UTEP in anything though.

JeeberD · 01-12-2005, 05:41 PM

*Takes a look at UTEP basketball media guide*

Series Records

vs Kentucky 1-0
Last time played: 1966

Surely you remember at least hearing about that game?

vs Kansas 3-0
Last time played: 1992

Yeah, ok, so it's been a while since we played each other. I gotta talk my smack since the Wildcats stole Chucky Hayes from us four years ago...

TargetPractice6 · 01-12-2005, 05:47 PM

Bah... take your 1966 game. We have 7 more where that came from.

Edit: But you know, not to say I wouldn't like another one.

01-11-2005, 05:29 PM	#8
TargetPractice6 College Benchwarmer Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Lexington, KY	Yeah, that's a pretty good objective thread. The Tubby Smith bashers that had been gone for a few years are back on the Kentucky board now. If we lose to Vandy tomorrow all hell is going to break lose on our board... Doubt I'll be reading it for a while. Though if he transfers he WILL be a junior with 1.5 years left by the time he can play. Only a few people in that thread were getting that. Last edited by TargetPractice6 : 01-11-2005 at 05:30 PM.

01-12-2005, 10:40 AM	#11
CHEMICAL SOLDIER College Starter Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Henderson, Nevada	Why did he/is he leaving KU? __________________ Toujour Pret

01-12-2005, 05:17 PM	#28
sterlingice Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Back in Houston!	Sure... SI __________________ Houston Hippopotami, III.3: 20th Anniversary Thread - All former HT players are encouraged to check it out! Janos: "Only America could produce an imbecile of your caliber!" Freakazoid: "That's because we make lots of things better than other people!"

01-12-2005, 05:29 PM	#30
JeeberD General Manager Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: The Town of Flower Mound	Both of y'all need to quit it with the yapping. UTEP owns both of your schools... __________________ UTEP Miners!!! I solemnly swear to never cheer for TO

01-12-2005, 05:33 PM	#32
JeeberD General Manager Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: The Town of Flower Mound	This is a basketball thread, isn't it? Don't be bringing up stuff that happened on the girdiron under the cough tutelage of Gary Nord... __________________ UTEP Miners!!! I solemnly swear to never cheer for TO

01-11-2005, 04:57 PM	#2
Joe Pro Starter Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Minneapolis	i thought this was about Joe Crawford the referee

01-11-2005, 05:07 PM	#3
Ryno H.S. Freshman Team Join Date: May 2004 Location: Peoria, IL	That's interesting, considering he originally committed to Michigan then backed out hxxp://www.freep.com/sports/umich/metro1_20030201.htm

01-11-2005, 05:10 PM	#4
DeToxRox Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Michigan	Exactly. That is why I am shocked he even mentioned Michigan but you just never know with these kids.

01-11-2005, 05:16 PM	#5
TargetPractice6 College Benchwarmer Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Lexington, KY	Being a UK fan I'm been following this for a couple days now. Really a bad move for the guy. UK is going to hold him to his letter of intent, and thus he will be penalized a year of eligibility for not completing a full year for us. Therefore he will be a junior with 1.5 years of eligibility remaining when he is allowed to play for his new team at this time next season. Personally, I don't want a guy that is going to quit on his team midway through the season because of much time he got against Kansas. He's 6th on the team in playing time, but from what I've heard he and his dad were livid about only getting 3 minutes against KU. I hope he doesn't let the door hit himself on the way out.

01-11-2005, 05:17 PM	#6
TargetPractice6 College Benchwarmer Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Lexington, KY	Dola... story http://kentucky.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=377126

01-11-2005, 05:18 PM	#7
Ryno H.S. Freshman Team Join Date: May 2004 Location: Peoria, IL	There's a thread with 70+ posts about him over at the IlliniBoard if you're at all interested in an Illini perspective. hxxp://mb11.scout.com/fillinoisinsiderfrm1.showMessageRange?topicID=33782.topic&start=1&stop=20

01-12-2005, 01:49 AM	#9
kingnebwsu College Benchwarmer Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Ohio	There's been small talk of it on my Wright State board. They're dreaming of getting him, but I think it's unrealistic. Ya never know though (Dreaming is FUN!)

01-12-2005, 12:48 PM	#19
Router Help Registered User Join Date: May 2004 Location: Ferndale, MI now in Chicago, IL	I've heard this story too, but I've heard that Crawford wants to play for State and not the Wolverines.

01-12-2005, 04:20 PM	#23
TargetPractice6 College Benchwarmer Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Lexington, KY	I guess Kansas has just always known their role.

01-12-2005, 05:05 PM	#25
TargetPractice6 College Benchwarmer Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Lexington, KY	You mean you finally beat us in Lexington for the first time in the 55 years we've been playing each other? And you even managed to improve your record against Kentucky to 19-4! You corn farmers should enjoy it since it may be another 15 years before you beat us again.

01-12-2005, 05:19 PM	#29
TargetPractice6 College Benchwarmer Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Lexington, KY	At least you are one of those Kansas fans who tries to bring up that game when they blew us out while we were on probation. It's just sad when they have to resort to that.

01-12-2005, 05:41 PM	#34
JeeberD General Manager Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: The Town of Flower Mound	Takes a look at UTEP basketball media guide Series Records vs Kentucky 1-0 Last time played: 1966 Surely you remember at least hearing about that game? vs Kansas 3-0 Last time played: 1992 Yeah, ok, so it's been a while since we played each other. I gotta talk my smack since the Wildcats stole Chucky Hayes from us four years ago... __________________ UTEP Miners!!! I solemnly swear to never cheer for TO

01-12-2005, 05:47 PM	#35
TargetPractice6 College Benchwarmer Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Lexington, KY	Bah... take your 1966 game. We have 7 more where that came from. Edit: But you know, not to say I wouldn't like another one. Last edited by TargetPractice6 : 01-12-2005 at 05:59 PM.

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