Clemens gets $18 million

Arles · 01-21-2005, 11:40 AM

Clemens agreed to a one-year $18 million deal with Houston. Given what salary he pitched at last season, it's not all that bad a deal to get him at 2 years for around $23 mil for 04 and 05.

Still, that's a lot of green.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1972067

gstelmack · 01-21-2005, 11:50 AM

Good, now people can stop griping about how much the Yankees and Sox pay for their players...

bigdawg2003 · 01-21-2005, 11:54 AM

Finally, something good happens to the Astros this offseason!

korme · 01-21-2005, 11:54 AM

way too much

bigdawg2003 · 01-21-2005, 12:19 PM

Shorty,

I look at it like this; Clemens is getting a raise of 12.5 million from last season. That's probably what Beltran's salary would've been this season had the Astros got him. So basically the Astros give Clemens Beltran's money for this season, and then try to sign a big ticket FA next season when Clemens more than likely will be retired.

Arles · 01-21-2005, 12:22 PM

Here's the arbritration list:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1970082

Given what Berkman and Oswalt got, my bet is Clemens' cash goes in to trying to lock them up next season before they start smelling a big UFA deal.

sterlingice · 01-21-2005, 01:33 PM

It's still way too much because there's no way he pitches like he did last year.

Also, it's not really fair to do the "well, it's like giving him a 2 year contract worth blah". What you really should look at was, at the beginning of last season, would you rather have him at a 1yr/$5M or 2yr/$23M contract. Frankly, He's not worth this much this late in his career.

SI

CraigSca · 01-21-2005, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gstelmack

Good, now people can stop griping about how much the Yankees and Sox pay for their players...

The key word is "players". For the Astros it's "player".

sterlingice · 01-21-2005, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CraigSca

The key word is "players". For the Astros it's "player".

Or pretty much anyone else. Also a one year contract doesn't drive the market like a multiyear does in arbitration.

SI

miked · 01-21-2005, 02:11 PM

Look, signing him to a big deal helps them just as much...he personally raised their attendance last season (I think like 75% of their sellouts were when he pitched). They will suck donkey dong this year after letting Beltran, Kent and Miller walk. But they could still play competitive and signing Clemens will help them sell more tickets. If they had let Clemens walk in addition, they would've assured themselves crappy attendance, especially since in comparison to other pitchers, he played for free last year (5M in the MLB barely buys you a Dreifort these days).

rkmsuf · 01-21-2005, 02:23 PM

"I don't play for the money. I play because I like to have other guys tap me on the ass."

LoneStarGirl · 01-21-2005, 02:31 PM

I am so happy he is coming back. He did wonders for the city of Houston and our community. Going to watch him play is something children will remember for years. I knew he would come back this season, especially after we lost Beltran and Miller. As far as Kent goes, Vizcaino and Biggio are just as good defensively.

sterlingice · 01-21-2005, 02:32 PM

That assumes, Clemens is the difference between a total dog and a winner, which is not the case because he's not going to win them 20 more games or something. The most WARP he could possibly get is ~10 so that's a 10 game swing. If that 10 is between 70 and 80, that won't make much difference to the fans when the Cubs or Cards or whoever is winning 100 and they're out of it by October. It also makes the assumption that the extra attendance when he pitches somewhat offsets how much he's getting paid but it's not like getting an extra 5-10K fans a game offsets the fact that you're paying him roughly $600K he's getting paid to pitch.

SI

gstelmack · 01-21-2005, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CraigSca

The key word is "players". For the Astros it's "player".

In the case of the Red Sox, this is undeserved. They have one giant contract (Manny) that was signed before the current management took over. Since then they've done a pretty good job of getting players for good value.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/teams/salaries?team=bos

Compare to other teams. Take away Manny's bad contract and they are right in the thick of things with the other teams. The only other guy getting more than $10 mil is Schilling. Boston just has more $1mil+ players, but they don't have nearly the number of giant contracts everyone likes to claim they do. So for Boston, you're right, it's "players": exactly 2 of them. And only one is in the ballpark or the deal handed Clemens.

Bomber · 01-21-2005, 02:36 PM

Well he was one of the best pitchers in the National League this year and should be again, so the price is right. Plus he'll put fans in the seats. Its seems like a pretty good move to me.

LoneStarGirl · 01-21-2005, 02:37 PM

It seems like a brilliant move to me. I am still smiling about it and will be the whole weekend.

sterlingice · 01-21-2005, 02:39 PM

Yeah, but you can't say that having 6 guys in Boston's bullpen making $2.5 or higher and bench players like Mientkievicz making $2M don't drive the market. Never mind that some of those contracts are backloaded so Renteria or Varitek look fairly reasonable now but how do they look in 3 years when they're each making well over $10M for non-stars.

SI

Honolulu_Blue · 01-21-2005, 03:08 PM

Only $18 million?!?! How is his family going to eat??? How is he going to put a roof over their heads? Sacre bleu!

miked · 01-21-2005, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sterlingice

That assumes, Clemens is the difference between a total dog and a winner, which is not the case because he's not going to win them 20 more games or something. The most WARP he could possibly get is ~10 so that's a 10 game swing. If that 10 is between 70 and 80, that won't make much difference to the fans when the Cubs or Cards or whoever is winning 100 and they're out of it by October. It also makes the assumption that the extra attendance when he pitches somewhat offsets how much he's getting paid but it's not like getting an extra 5-10K fans a game offsets the fact that you're paying him roughly $600K he's getting paid to pitch.

SI

Even when the Stros were down last year and everyone counted them out, Clemens was still selling out every game. Plus he's a good mentor and keeps a massive notebook on umpires and players...stuff he could share with younger guys.

01-21-2005, 11:50 AM	#2
gstelmack Pro Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Cary, NC	Good, now people can stop griping about how much the Yankees and Sox pay for their players... __________________ -- Greg -- Author of various FOF utilities

01-21-2005, 11:54 AM	#3
bigdawg2003 High School Varsity Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Austin, Texas, USA	Finally, something good happens to the Astros this offseason! __________________ I didn't even know Elvis was from Memphis. I thought he was from Tennessee.

01-21-2005, 12:19 PM	#5
bigdawg2003 High School Varsity Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Austin, Texas, USA	Shorty, I look at it like this; Clemens is getting a raise of 12.5 million from last season. That's probably what Beltran's salary would've been this season had the Astros got him. So basically the Astros give Clemens Beltran's money for this season, and then try to sign a big ticket FA next season when Clemens more than likely will be retired. __________________ I didn't even know Elvis was from Memphis. I thought he was from Tennessee.

01-21-2005, 12:22 PM	#6
Arles Grey Dog Software Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Phoenix, AZ by way of Belleville, IL	Here's the arbritration list: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1970082 Given what Berkman and Oswalt got, my bet is Clemens' cash goes in to trying to lock them up next season before they start smelling a big UFA deal. __________________ Developer of Bowl Bound College Football http://www.greydogsoftware.com

01-21-2005, 01:33 PM	#7
sterlingice Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Back in Houston!	It's still way too much because there's no way he pitches like he did last year. Also, it's not really fair to do the "well, it's like giving him a 2 year contract worth blah". What you really should look at was, at the beginning of last season, would you rather have him at a 1yr/$5M or 2yr/$23M contract. Frankly, He's not worth this much this late in his career. SI __________________ Houston Hippopotami, III.3: 20th Anniversary Thread - All former HT players are encouraged to check it out! Janos: "Only America could produce an imbecile of your caliber!" Freakazoid: "That's because we make lots of things better than other people!"

01-21-2005, 11:54 AM	#4
korme Go Reds Join Date: May 2001 Location: Bloodbuzz Ohio	way too much

01-21-2005, 02:11 PM	#10
miked College Starter Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: The Dirty	Look, signing him to a big deal helps them just as much...he personally raised their attendance last season (I think like 75% of their sellouts were when he pitched). They will suck donkey dong this year after letting Beltran, Kent and Miller walk. But they could still play competitive and signing Clemens will help them sell more tickets. If they had let Clemens walk in addition, they would've assured themselves crappy attendance, especially since in comparison to other pitchers, he played for free last year (5M in the MLB barely buys you a Dreifort these days).

01-21-2005, 02:23 PM	#11
rkmsuf Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2001	"I don't play for the money. I play because I like to have other guys tap me on the ass." __________________ "Don't you have homes?" -- Judge Smales

01-21-2005, 02:31 PM	#12
LoneStarGirl College Starter Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Little Rock, AR	I am so happy he is coming back. He did wonders for the city of Houston and our community. Going to watch him play is something children will remember for years. I knew he would come back this season, especially after we lost Beltran and Miller. As far as Kent goes, Vizcaino and Biggio are just as good defensively.

01-21-2005, 02:32 PM	#13
sterlingice Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Back in Houston!	That assumes, Clemens is the difference between a total dog and a winner, which is not the case because he's not going to win them 20 more games or something. The most WARP he could possibly get is ~10 so that's a 10 game swing. If that 10 is between 70 and 80, that won't make much difference to the fans when the Cubs or Cards or whoever is winning 100 and they're out of it by October. It also makes the assumption that the extra attendance when he pitches somewhat offsets how much he's getting paid but it's not like getting an extra 5-10K fans a game offsets the fact that you're paying him roughly $600K he's getting paid to pitch. SI __________________ Houston Hippopotami, III.3: 20th Anniversary Thread - All former HT players are encouraged to check it out! Janos: "Only America could produce an imbecile of your caliber!" Freakazoid: "That's because we make lots of things better than other people!"

01-21-2005, 02:36 PM	#15
Bomber High School Varsity Join Date: Sep 2004	Well he was one of the best pitchers in the National League this year and should be again, so the price is right. Plus he'll put fans in the seats. Its seems like a pretty good move to me.

01-21-2005, 02:37 PM	#16
LoneStarGirl College Starter Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Little Rock, AR	It seems like a brilliant move to me. I am still smiling about it and will be the whole weekend.

01-21-2005, 02:39 PM	#17
sterlingice Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Back in Houston!	Yeah, but you can't say that having 6 guys in Boston's bullpen making $2.5 or higher and bench players like Mientkievicz making $2M don't drive the market. Never mind that some of those contracts are backloaded so Renteria or Varitek look fairly reasonable now but how do they look in 3 years when they're each making well over $10M for non-stars. SI __________________ Houston Hippopotami, III.3: 20th Anniversary Thread - All former HT players are encouraged to check it out! Janos: "Only America could produce an imbecile of your caliber!" Freakazoid: "That's because we make lots of things better than other people!" Last edited by sterlingice : 01-21-2005 at 02:40 PM.

01-21-2005, 03:08 PM	#18
Honolulu_Blue Hockey Boy Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Royal Oak, MI	Only $18 million?!?! How is his family going to eat??? How is he going to put a roof over their heads? Sacre bleu! __________________ *Steve Yzerman*: 1,755 points in 1,514 regular season games. 185 points in 196 postseason games. A First-Team All-Star, Conn Smythe Trophy winner, Selke Trophy winner, Masterton Trophy winner, member of the Hockey Hall of Fame, Olympic gold medallist, and a three-time Stanley Cup Champion. Longest serving captain of one team in the history of the NHL (19 seasons).

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